Newsweek: The Missing Shoppers

[UpInArms]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5783163/?ta=y

Aug. 30 issue - Something odd happened on the way to global recovery. The shoppers are not turning out the way they normally do when things start to look up. Whether that changes in the next few months will help answer a burning question: is the recovery sputtering, or just pausing for breath? On this point rests any number of critical issues, including the prospects of a second term for George W. Bush.

<snip>

The gloomy scenario is not unanimous, and every piece of data is being pounced on with a microscope. Yet a jump in the U.S. trade deficit last month to $55 billion—$10 billion more than expected—also made it clear that exports are not going to replace domestic consumption as the engine of growth in America. Critics say Greenspan is blaming oil prices to deflect attention from the fact that he kept rates low for too long, leaving consumers in debt when the upturn came. "The usual purpose of a recession is to clear out the system of excesses that occurred in the boom," says Hong Kong-based economist Marc Faber. "That hasn't happened between 2000 and today. If anything, it's worse."

<snip>

Only the most committed pessimists see an upside to the consumer malaise, and this is it: A slowdown in American household spending might portend the long-awaited rebalancing of a world economy in which many nations have become excessively dependent on exports to the United States. The current U.S. trade deficit is more than 5 percent of GNP. To bring it down to a more sustainable level, Americans need to save more, which would virtually guarantee another recession. Or Asian central banks need to stop funding U.S. spending by buying U.S. Treasuries—which would precipitate a further fall in the dollar. Indeed, a new round of gloomy forecasts is predicting just that. "This imbalance will one day be corrected, and I fear it will happen through a crisis," warns Faber. "Something's got to give." So attention, U.S. shoppers. The world is counting on you to start spending.

...more at link...

[JNelson6563]

1. Everybody's maxed out

Everyone re-fi'd and paid off the credit cards they'd been living on. With all those fresh, clean zero-balances, who could resist buying a lot more shit they didn't need? Now debt is even higher with so many haven taken equity out of their homes to finance their beyond-their-means lifestyles there is little to do but pay off debt and eek by on *gasp* their salaries.

Yes, the American consumer is about tapped out. Check out the massive listings of foreclosures in your area. Go visit with a local bankruptcy lawyer and ask them "how's business?" It's an ugly picture the neo-cons would rather nobody saw.

So, what are we in for tomorrow on the Street UIA? I shudder at the thought of what to expect in the near future. Catch you in the AM fellow Marketeer. :toast:

Julie

[UpInArms]

3. here's an article to stand your hairs on end

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/biz/archives/2004/08/22/2003199775

Crude oil futures in New York, after passing US$49 a barrel, may rise further next week on increasing concern that shipments will be curtailed just as demand accelerates, a Bloomberg survey of traders and analysts showed.

Thirty-two of 51 respondents, or 63 percent, predicted the price rally will continue next week. Twelve expected prices to fall and seven said oil will be little changed. New York crude oil for September delivery closed at US$47.86 a barrel after rising to a record US$49.40 in morning trading.

<snip>

"The funds are really putting huge amounts of money" into the market in anticipation of higher prices, said Sheikh Zaki Yamani, the former Saudi oil minister, in a telephone interview from Sardinia, Italy. "There are some political factors no one can do anything about" to resolve conflicts in Iraq, Russia and Venezuela that would ease oil prices, he said.

...more...

so when oil surpasses $50 pbl and continues to climb, what will the markets do? will they ignore it? will they panic?

tune in tomorrow - same bat place - same bat time :evilgrin:

[jmcgowanjm]

10. Saudi production drops 400k bbls in June

9.13 million barrels a day of oil in July, down from 9.52

http://www.ecommercetimes.com/story/news/35885.html

This is it. We're here. When the US Social Conscience
realizes PeakOil, the new era will be here.

A lengthy shutdown of Iraqi exports could have
severe consequences to an oil supply system with almost
no spare capacity, reckons Adam Sieminski, an analyst
at Deutsche Bank.

“With Opec now producing at over 95 per cent of its
current capacity, a loss of 1-2 million barrels per day could,
in theory, result in a doubling of the current oil price,”
he said.

http://www.energybulletin.net/1678.html

[goforit]

53. Double in present price?...May it send him back to Crawford permanently

LOL!!!!!!!!

Tic Toc tic toc........

[lovuian]

24. and the Saudis make Billions and zilions

compliments of Bush family

This country is getting screwed by the Saudis

:argh:

[leesa]

58. This country is getting screwed by the Bush Crime Family

[JNelson6563]

28. Makes me want to yell "Fire!!!!!!!"

so everyone will take cover. If this article is correct this week could be really rough. I have a slight sense of dread.

:scared:

Julie

[iconoclastic cat]

2. I'd love to spend. I'd love to have a job, too.

Greenspan should seriously consider biting my ass.

[daa]

42. Ao tru, you are not alone eom

[iconoclastic cat]

48. Thanks! I know many people who have it a lot worse, so I'm not

really complaining. We actually prepared for something like this when we found out that the USSC had decided to install Bush.

[sendero]

44. Expert analysis....

... delivered with droll wit.

I couldn't agree more. Greenspan is getting senile. He's been pushing on the string so long and wondering why he can't move it. I sincerely hope he is replaced soon.

[iconoclastic cat]

49. Sweet Jeebus, the GrovelBot would do a better job.

I swear that man is simply vivisecting chickens to determine economic policy.

[Mari333]

4. attention US shoppers, the world wants you to spend?

sorry, but I spend what little monies I have on basics. Food first. I buy second hand clothes if I need clothes. have to pay water bill, gas bill (we are using wood and space heaters this winter and cutting it down to a few rooms), and have to pay inflated health insurance bill I cannot afford. Had to pay for a class in health care to get a job, and the one I am starting will be only 2 days a week. Have to pay insurance on car. Have 2 kids moved home to help out by paying me rent. Minimal car usage. Have to go to Value Drug store for meds to get them cheap. Have to pay doctors bills out of pocket, insurance doesnt cover doctors bills.
Have to pay eyecare and dental care out of pocket. Insurance doesnt cover that either.
When all is said and done, cant buy crap, baubles, or bullshit. Just the basics, and that eats up everything. Using NO credit cards, those are just legal loan sharks.
Have all property I own on the market to downsize.
Shop for crap?? get real. Not gonna happen.
I warned the CEOs, and now their greedy short term profits are going to bite them in the ass...tough shit.
It feels good not to buy one goddamned thing from corporations that own the USA and own most of the politicians who are 'supposed' to be working for us.
Boycott everything. Let the whole goddamned thing collapse . I dont care. We dont need all that crap anyway to live.
Live simply, Less is More.

[Cogito ergo doleo]

20. That's it, Mari333 -

The American consumer drives the world economy. American consumers are the #1 comodity of the US.

Google this:

american consumers world economy

A few of examples:

The World Waits on the U.S. Economy

by Irwin Stelzer

The world’s finance ministers ended their meeting in Washington over the weekend. No need to wait for the communiqué—it was probably drafted by the ministers’ sherpas well before this annual meeting of the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank. The real decision, and one that dare not speak its name, is to rely on the American consumer to provide the world economy with a modicum of economic growth for the foreseeable future. Hudson Institute
http://ao.hudson.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=publication_details&id=1989&pubtype=DailyArticles

Honey, Can We Afford It? U.S. consumers are keeping the world economy afloat. But they're up to their eyeballs in debt.
http://www.highbeam.com/library/doc0.asp?docid=1G1%3A77252386&refid=ink_d1


In Greek mythology, Atlas was forced to support the heavens on his shoulders, a burden Zeus imposed as punishment for waging war against the gods. Today, American consumers are playing Atlas, hoisting the global economy on their backs. --US World and News Report
http://www.keepmedia.com/pubs/USNewsWorldReport/1999/03/29/223057?extID=10032&oliID=213

[Mari333]

21. I saw this last year "Up to their eyeballs in debt"

when I lost my cashiers job, because our hometown store closed, thanks to Wal Mart opening up.
People didnt want to change their lifestyles, and so I saw tons of people using credit cards to hoist up their lifestyles..they have hoisted themselves on their own petard , however...90% of my customers used credit cards to buy stuff..
Now there are massive foreclosures, massive bankruptcies, massive debts piling up, and I was smart a long time ago..I sold everything I owned, and put my property up for sale..I will live with nothing much, and be fine. Luckily, I was born into a lower middle class working family, so I know how to get by.
Compared to the rest of the world, we are spoiled.
Thats pretty much what it boils down to.
People will be forced to look at themselves in the mirror and say "Do I really need all this shit???"
No, we dont.
Let it collapse, I intend to survive it.

[Cogito ergo doleo]

60. We cut up our credit cards

14 years ago. We have been on the austerity program ever since, and it doesn't hurt a bit - in fact, not spending has become happily habitual. You went to the heart of it - we can and will survive. Let it collapse, because things could only get better!

[goforit]

55. Hats off to Mari333...........Let them have it!!!...Sock it to them!!!!

"Boycott everything. Let the whole goddamned thing collapse . I dont care. We dont need all that crap anyway to live.
Live simply, Less is More." - Mari333

Now that is a Paul Revere for ya!!!

A Great "Throw the damn tea over-board"!!!!!

I salute ya!!!

[llmart]

64. Nice to see someone feels the way I do.

Since * stole office, I made a pledge not to spend any money I didn't absolutely have to in hopes that I could contribute in some small way to an economic downturn. I know enough about human behavior in this country to know that Americans care first and foremost about the economy and their own personal situations. I practice voluntary simplicity and I, too, say I hope the whole friggen' thing collapses to teach these credit card happy, materialistic people a long overdue lesson. I think China's ready to surpass us economically anyway. The US needs a good comeuppance.

[jayfish]

5. Supply-Side Economics Exposed...

as the garbage that it is. You can give all the money in the world to producers, but if their is no one to buy the products that they produce then you have whet we have today. Why is this so surprising?

Jay

[Warpy]

9. Well, they're not the producers.

Labor produces all wealth. They parasite off labor. When labor isn't rewarded enough to purchase the goods and services they produce, the market is choked off, and that is what has happened.

Only easy credit and home refinancing have kept the consumer economy afloat this long. We have all the ingredients assembled now for a depression: few decent jobs being created, plenty of decent jobs going, more workers being forced into marginal work, high debt loads on consumers, a stock market that is about double what it should be, and the worst wealth concentration since the 1920s. That consumer debt is heading for default, and I think that is what is going to upset the supply side apple cart. It's overdue, and it's inevitable.

You can stiff labor only too long, and you can only export so many jobs and still expect to use the US as your primary market. This system is rotten to the core and cannot survive. The money pump has always functioned from the bottom up, not the top down. Unless you skim money off the very top and recirculate it at the bottom, you will have first a stagnant economy and then a depression.

Hold on to your hats, folks, it's gonna get ugly.

[smirkymonkey]

11. That's exactly how it works. Why hasn't anybody in

the * administration been able to see how this will play out? Surely there must be an economist or two floating around somewhere.

Or is it that their greed trumps their common sense? The Republican party has always been in favor of short term, ill-thought out fixes, foregoing sound economic policy. They really are like a bunch of children who want what they want right now, and to hell with the consequences.

It's time for the grown-ups to start running the country.

There is always a lag before the consequences of disastrous policy decisions come home to roost, but it always happens.

[Nay]

15. The trouble is, I don't see how Kerry can "fix" this, no matter

how smart he is. As someone else here said, this has been 25 years in the making. The RW elite has finally won the battle (with a short detour forced by that traitor Clinton) to strip the American public of its assets. It has encouraged spending (public and individual) on junk and discouraged saving, to the point that we have such eye-popping economic observations as: "If Americans start to save their money, the economy will collapse."

It has loosened financial rules so that any low-wage person has a dozen credit cards, and is encourage to buy a house too -- and then to borrow on the house equity to the tune of 125% of its worth.

As far as us getting our revenge when we finally are unable to prop up the economy with spending, I would guess that most of the elite doesn't care -- they have enough money and property socked away, and enough power to hire private cops to protect it, so that what happens to the rest of us is just a minor annoyance. After all, the elite all over the world live in gated communities protected by corrupt cops, and so can they. In fact, I believe the elite prefers this view of the world and actively works to manifest it. It confirms their already-held view that we are rabble, and the only proper treatment we deserve is to be pushed rudely aside by our betters.

[reprobate]

19. Right on, Nay. But you forgot to factor in the anger that's growing.

I had a real nightmare vision the other night.

The system, thru its concentration on military empire, has created among the masses a number of expert marksmen, trained in the tactics of snipers, explosives, and other things that will make a great nucleus to build on for the anger that I see growing among the great mass of the unemployed and underemployed.

More and more people are now seeing the US as becoming a third world country and at the same time they are blaming the corporations for being the owners of the gov't. All revolutions are reactions to the uneven distribution of wealth that occurs when the wealthy are in power and unchecked. I am very much afraid we are approaching that point in this country.

When the anger of the people is not addressed by the gov't the people may well turn to violence. And there are enough who realize that the corporations are to blame. When this anger meets the expertise that has been funded by the corporations, it may well be that the corporations become the targets of these experts.

The question in my mind is how long can the system continue if just the fact that you are a CEO means that you are carrying a target on your back? And who will be willing to take your place when your 'ticket' is punched.

A headless snake has no fangs, and the system may well collapse of its own weight if these things come to pass.

Sorry to be such a pessimist, but we are still digging out from the passing of Charlie and its hard right now to feel optimistic.

[bikebloke]

54. Back in the 30's and the Depression...

Folk were getting angry. Roosevelt was asked why he initiated the New Deal. He said there wouldn't have been a country left otherwise.

[Ignis]

36. Forgive me for waxing Marxist, but...

-----
Nay said:
As far as us getting our revenge when we finally are unable to prop up the economy with spending, I would guess that most of the elite doesn't care -- they have enough money and property socked away, and enough power to hire private cops to protect it, so that what happens to the rest of us is just a minor annoyance. After all, the elite all over the world live in gated communities protected by corrupt cops, and so can they. In fact, I believe the elite prefers this view of the world and actively works to manifest it. It confirms their already-held view that we are rabble, and the only proper treatment we deserve is to be pushed rudely aside by our betters.
-----

Spot on analysis, Nay.

I'd raise the bar a notch higher and propose that not only do the rich the funds to weather an economic recession, but they also stand to make a tidy profit off of one. When the price of expensive items (commercial real estate, homes, luxury cars, etc.) drops due to bankruptcies and foreclosures, the rich can employ their considerable savings to swoop in and scoop up these goodies for pennies on the dollar.

Because we are so obsessed as a nation with the gawd-given right of the rich to amass and hold onto huge collections of capital even after death (via rich-friendly estate laws), America's wealth will continue to concentrate into fewer and fewer hands with every economic speed bump. Something's gotta give, indeed.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

67. I imagine a "six thousand, six million, six billion" dystopia

Six thousand people own everything. They hire a six-million people (highly mechanized) army to protect them from the other six billion.

Six, six, six.

[tabasco]

30. They know exactly how it works.

The rich right-wing elite know their policies will result in disaster. They don't care. When they gain power, the rich right-wing intends to steal as much as they can before the inevitable collapse. When a responsible government comes in and does the hard work of restoring the economy, the conservatives shift into "blame it all on them mode." The only thing that keeps this vicious cycle going is the large number of duped working class people who vote republican. Until that changes, there will be no real progress.

[davekriss]

37. A Crisis in Effective Demand

That is what Supply Side economics comes to. It is recessionary and can easily tip into depression.

If you take $100 that you could give to a laborer of limited means, and instead give it to the rich man comfortably ensconced in the owning class, what is the result? A decline in aggregate demand.

There is an opportunity to create value every time a dollar exchanges hands -- the exchange encourages action and action creates value. If you reduce the volume or slow the velocity of dollars changing hands, odds are there is less value to parse amongst the participants in an economy.

The laborer is much more likely to spend $100 on goods and services than the rich man since the laborer, already deprived of full recompense for the value his/her work created, has need for shoes, appliances, dental work, paint for the house, car repairs, and so on. The $100 given the laborer will surely be fully exchanged and reverberate outward in additional exchanges creating more value along the way.

The rich man, on the other hand, is likely already consuming everything he/she wants and has no unsated desire for anything else. Yea, maybe out of habit another Lexus might be purchased, or another Hatteras yacht or bottle of '61 Bordeaux or overpriced Van Gogh -- but most of that $100 is likely to end up in an investment account.

Here, figure the law of supply and demand. More dollars chasing a fixed number of goods results in what? Why, inflation, of course! And if the rich man's dollars is chasing stock, we see the DOW and NASDAQ rise to PE ratios not seen before. It happened during the Reagan/GHWB years and it is partly what sustains stock prices now (though the world is wising up so the current investment-inflation policy can do no more then countervail deflationary forces).

The "good news" of a soaring stock market, via propaganda disbursed by the compliant major media, might increase "consumer confidence", and this may lead to some increased spending on the margin, but nothing near the demand that what would have been achieved if the $100 was handed to someone in geniune need.

The picture is worsened when we realize that it's not a choice of giving $100 to the laborer or $100 to the rich man; instead, what we've chosen to do through two misguided Bush* tax initiatives is defer giving $100 to 1,000 laborers and instead give $100,000 to 1 rich man, multipled however many times necessary to extrapolate over the entire population. That means the opportunity to lessen the deprivations of millions was dropped in favor of pandering to a few thousand rich men. Why?

The picture is worsened further when we realize that the money handed the rich man is not his own in the sense that the $2 trillion tax cut, $200 billion over each of the next ten years, is borrowed from future taxpayers. The taxes the rich man/woman does not pay now (as a result of Bush's* cuts) will be paid by future taxpayers.

Note how carefully the Republican Party has floated various trial balloons saying we'll have to pare back on social security and medicare spending, that the poor and middle class don't pay their fair share in income taxes. Note how the Republican Party is slowly moving taxes onto labor (earned income) and off of dividends, interest, and capital gains. The intention is to shift the future burden for the current rich-man's largesse onto the working man of the future. We working men and woman are simply being robbed.

Rove has Bush talking about the "ownership" society. Don't be fooled. They mean to say to you that you are responsible for your own retirement and healthcare, your own poverty and destitution, now that they've looted the treasury and built their own financial fortresses. They mean to increase the dependency of the working man on the cash nexus, on the largesse of the corporation, rather than on eachother intermediated through democratic institutions. We're surfing to serfdom everyday this continues.

It's class war, alright. A pre-emptive war waged by the owning class against the working class (which is everyone who has to labor for a paycheck, whether you perceive yourself as "upper-middle", "middle", or not). Wall Street against Main Street.

On November 2, be sure to fire back!

[grasswire]

51. nicely expressed, thanks (eom)

[annabanana]

33. Revealed as a "GASP!?!"...Ponzi Scheme..........

Why is everyone shocked? Isn't another thing on the long list of things that could be seen coming a mile away?

thought so

[dArKeR]

6. Why doesn't a moral group go through the tapes from 2001 to today

and tally the Whore Media's, and name the reporters names too, number of times they said "the recover will be here next quarter." Are any American journalists held accountable?

[UpInArms]

8. that "group" would be labeled "a left-wing think tank"

while the whoremedia ignores the Heritage Foundation, the AEI, and all their broodlings.

[FloridaPat]

7. Story is the last 2 years was financed by remortgaging homes.

All the remortgages are done. As someone else pointed out, all those credit cards are back to max. There is just nowhere to go with out all those jobs that went overseas.

[sadiesworld]

12. I think we're in for some seriously troubled times...

no matter who wins (the housing market appears to be teetering).

Nonetheless, we have a CHANCE with Kerry. I really hope he has the guts to take on the corporations, anti-tax fanatics, etc.

Also, I don't think republicans will put up with a crappy Kerry economy. Rush and the rest will try to convince them that a piss- poor job market is due to Kerry's expensive haircuts rather than damaging policies, but it will be a tough sell...even to the ditto-heads.

I wish I felt more optimistic, but this is a mess 25 years in the making. :(

[area51]

17. Rusty Limpballs & other nazi talking asses

This is one of the things I've predicted, that as soon as Kerry is elected (& before he even gets in the White House), the nazi talking assclowns will suddenly now "notice" the huge nos. of people who are unemployed and underemployed, and will blame Pres. Kerry.

[sadiesworld]

18. Sure, they'll blame Kerry.

My point is that with a Kerry presidency we may have a majority of the population questioning WHY there are no decent jobs. Pukes are willing to accept lousy trade policies, outsourcing, etc., so long as THEIR guy is in office. Dems are much less likely to put up w/ BS no matter who is in charge. Hopefully, Kerry will be forced politically to make serious reforms.

[qanda]

27. In a strange way

It almost makes me wish for Bush to win, just so people can see what his policies have done to our country and the world. You know if Kerry is in office, he will be blamed for everyting that takes place. However, I'd rather see Kerry get blamed than to have another four years of recklessness. The scariest thought is what will Bush do when he has absolutely nothing to lose?

[davekriss]

38. Not only that...

...but anticipate that everything will be done by the neo-fundy-con right to attack Kerry in manners similar to how the Clintons were attacked. No matter who wins, the U.S. has turmoil ahead, the damage is already done and the internal enemy will continue.

There's that old Confuscian curse, "May you live in interesting times!". Unfortunately, we do. :(

[calimary]

65. That's why it's important for people like US, here, and elsewhere, to

remain on offense, and fend off the attacks that are sure to come against President Kerry. Bet on it. The Bad Guys will try their damnedest to pee on his parade every which way so they can somehow say "I told you so," and blame ALL of bush's sins on Kerry. We have to be LOUD, VOCAL, and EVERYWHERE. We have to be on the front lines of Kerry's Army - his Truth Squad of Ninja Fighters. Somebody's got to be generating CONSTANT deflection of all the limbaugh and Pox "news" crap that IS going to come.

[gulfcoastliberal]

39. I've had the exact thought myself...

As soon as Kerry is sworn in, the media will suddenly start reporting the casualties, the huge problems in the economy, and the everything else that is wrong and pin it on him. I'm with you though, at least he will try to fix the problems rather than lie all the time. If you read Paul O'Neil's book, you know this administration makes economic decisions based on politics rather than policy.

[Kenergy]

46. My thoughts exactly!

[progressivebydesign]

13. Hey! I'm spending.. but..

gargage sales and thrift shops don't show up on the radar. That's all anyone can afford anymore. The myth of the economic recovery is starting to unravel.. there are NO indicators consistently showing a recovery... just because the WH says we're recovering, does not make it so. Idiots. The economy will rebound when Kerry takes office. It's a natural effect after the Bush debacle. Consumer confidence plunged when Bush took office, WELL before 9/11...

[jayfish]

50. You've Got That Right.

Other than a mortgage and a loan on my primary vehicle I have no debt. I make good money and I can barely afford anything outside of necessities. As a matter of fact I may be forced to sell my home because I just can't keep up anymore. This presidency has been a disaster for my family and I.

Jay

[aquart]

14. "Global recovery"? Interesting cover for no recovery HERE.

Good to know that India is feeling a lift with all those American jobs.

[Bo]

16. Im all shoped out

[Kahuna]

22. New meme: "W" shaped recession. Pass it on..

nt

[union_maid]

23. Probably shouldn't have screwed the boomers or their kids

The largest generation, we've been a prime market since we were toddlers. Now, we're not only at an age where we don't have to have every single new thing that comes down the pike, but we've got problems. If our parents couldn't afford college for us there were grants - free money - and state universities were so cheap as to be the next best thing to free. In some states they were free to residents. Not so for our kids and they need education more than ever. Either we help them or they come out of school with such staggering debt that they can't spend on much for a long time. Either way, there's a whole lot of money out of the economy that was disposable income a generation ago. Then there's healthcare. We all know about that. A lot of us are working with less income than we had a few years ago - in what are supposed to be our high earning years. We're not getting those. Pensions- what are they? We've had to rely on 401ks for retirement and they're not doing so well and maybe if our income is down we're not able to contribute as much to them either. Savings are not generating any interest to speak of. And they keep threatening to play with Social Security so even if you believe it's going to be there, you know it's not going to keep up with the cost of living. So if we're not in heavy debt, we're afraid to go there.

For our kids - well, they say home ownership is up, but the mortgages are sky high. The high price of the housing, spurred by the low interest rates, is not something that can be renegotiated if things come down. If your interest rate is too high you can refinance. If the price of your house is too high even with low interest rates there's not much you can do. It's taking every dime to stay afloat.

[Keirsey]

25. a lot of votes

VOTE FOR KERRY...

If you have lost your job

If your replacement job pays a lot less than your old job

If your job has been outsourced to India or China (estimated400,000 jobs in the past 3 years)

If you have reduced or no health care benefits in your new job

If you are worried about Social Security

If you are a veteran whose benefits have been reduced

[catmandu57]

26. One of my professors told us

when the middle class is squeezed, that's when trouble starts. They can fuck with the poor, and people won't care, they can fuck with the apolitical all they want, but, now the very class of people that prop up this illusion is feeling cramped.
This band of miscreants that run things aren't looking from the right angle. The rich are doing great, and that means everything is fine, all is right with the world. That is their barometer, and it's going to come back to bite their ass.

[UpInArms]

29. did you read the Krugman column in the KC Star today?

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/business/9446226.htm?

A new Bush campaign ad pushes the theme of an “ownership society.” The ad concludes with President Bush declaring, “I understand if you own something, you have a vital stake in the future of America.”

Call me naive, but I thought all Americans had a vital stake in the nation's future, regardless of how much property they owned. Should we go back to the days when states, arguing that only men of sufficient substance could be trusted, imposed property qualifications for voting? Even if Bush is talking only about the economic future, don't workers have as much stake as property owners in the economy's success?

<snip>

The Bush tax cuts have, of course, heavily favored the very, very well off. But they also have, more specifically, favored unearned income over earned income — or, if you prefer, investment returns over wages. Last year Daniel Altman pointed out in The New York Times that Bush's proposals, if fully adopted, “could eliminate almost all taxes on investment income and wealth for almost all Americans.” Bush hasn't yet gotten all he wants, but he has taken a large step toward a system in which only labor income is taxed.

<snip>

In 2001, Bush's handpicked commission on Social Security was unable to agree on a plan to create private accounts because there was no way to make the arithmetic work. Undaunted, this year the Bush campaign again insists privatization will lead to a “permanently strengthened Social Security system, without changing benefits for those now in or near retirement, and without raising payroll taxes on workers.” In other words, 2 minus 1 equals 4.

...more...

[catmandu57]

34. Ownership society

Yes, that is exactly what these people want I'm afraid. Only the priveleged class has a right to anything, I thought that was a discredited theory. Apparantly the only way these "people" look is backwards.

[Nordic]

31. spending my money on gas and food

since the prices have skyrocketed. Who's got money for anything else now?

Oh, those oil company execs are rolling on dough. Record profits quarter after quarter! Yeah, Bush!

[SOS]

32. Anecdotal evidence

No raise in three years. Wife lost job in 2003. Unemployment ran out. Health insurance unaffordable, now gone. Side business sales down 25%. Local taxes up 25%. Prescriptions unaffordable. Food prices rising rapidly. Oil will be expensive this winter. Credit card balances mounting. Retirement savings near gone.

And these imbeciles wonder why we're not shopping? :mad:

[tXr]

35. Gee, I'd just love to fall into line and shop, shop, shop, but

1. I'd much rather save than spend, and
2. To my way of thinking, a job is a major prerequisite for
achieving the status of 'consumer', and, thanks to the
wonderful economy, I am presently 'job-free'. Thus, no
'consuming' for me! (except for necessities, of course).
3. Exactly when did we become a nation of 'consumers' instead
of citizens? I greatly dislike the label of 'consumer',
it seems to prescribe a world view which, of necessity, ends
at the boundaries of one's own property and/or possessions.
I prefer (as do many others) to be defined as a CITIZEN,
however, the government would much rather a nation of passive,
oblivious, self-involved 'consumers' to active, questioning,
community-oriented CITIZENS. So keep shopping, folks, even if
you don't have the money!

[Yavin4]

40. If They Want Us To Shop, Shop, Shop

Then give us Jobs, Jobs, Jobs. A child can figure out that you cannot rely on people to spend money that they don't have and still have a growing economy. We've lost over 1 million jobs in the past four years, and these idiots want us to keep spending?

[Digit]

41. Shop with WHAT????

My money goes for my mortgage (not an expensive home, mind you).
Utilities (which are killing me).
Gas for my older (10+ yrs) car.
Food (Yikes!)
I gave away my dog already since I could not afford her.
The paint on my home is peeling since I can't afford a painter and I am disabled.
I have no health insurance since I can't afford that, either.
I was unemployed on disability for almost a year before I found a temp position. Unfortunately, no benefits, but it beats being on disability.
Went to Goodwill and splurged on a couple pairs of slacks and blouses so I could look presentable at work.
The stress of being in this position is horrible.
What is worse...I know there are countless others out there in more dire straits than I am.
There won't be money spent at THIS household until * is out of office!

[SoCalDem]

43. Home equity used up..credit cards maxxed out..

Where's the mystery here??? I see no mystery..

[sendero]

45. Poor, working and middle class people..

.... spend their tax cuts, stimulating the economy.

Rich people put it in the bank. Bush* says they will create new businesses, but rich people didn't get rich being stupid. Nobody starts a new business when there is no consumer market for the goods or services it produces.

One would think that ONE PERSON at the white house would inform Bush* that his big tax cut happened THREE YEARS AGO and that if it were going to work it would have by now.

But I guess there is nobody in this entire administration willing to tell the boy emperor that he has no clothes.

[Barkley]

61. Great Analysis deseo

A lot of Bush's tax cut for the rich went is being spent on luxuary items from overseas, which accounts for the record trade deficit.

Some of its going into the housing market and running up prices beyond the reason.

The last person to tell Bush he was 'butt naked' was Paul O'Neil; and you know what happened to him.

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

47. The world is counting on me to spend?

I guess we're all screwed then.

[goforit]

52. Well well well..........................So george, shop till ya drop,Eh?

Adios...........Walmart!!!

[Cha]

56. I got this from Nambe's latest breaking news..

Thought it was pertainent..

"WASHINGTON, Aug. 22 - Congressional Democrats were deeply suspicious when Republican leaders selected Douglas J. Holtz-Eakin to take over the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office in early 2003

Within weeks of taking office, Mr. Holtz-Eakin dealt a big blow to Republicans. Analyzing the impact of Mr. Bush's spending and tax plans together, he concluded they would do little or nothing to stimulate long-term growth or make the deficit any smaller than it would be otherwise.

Last week, responding to questions posed by Democratic lawmakers, the Congressional Budget Office released a report showing that Mr. Bush's tax cuts were skewed very heavily to the very top income earners."


More at..
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/23/politics/23budget.html

[GoddessOfGuinness]

57. You mean when people have to settle for jobs that pay 1/3 less

than the job that got sent overseas, they don't want to run out and spend big bucks? What the hell? :dunce:

[depakid]

59. "the way they normally do when things start to look up"

Talk about question begging....

The usual confused drivel from Newsweek- it seems to me that people get the fact that GDP (the grossly distorted product) is not the be all and end all of economic health that the corporate media hypes it up to be....

Too bad for their advertisers-

[DavidFL]

62. Everytime I hear about how the economy is improving...

or the recovery is just "right around the corner", I think of Nineteen Eighty Four, when Winston Smith would describe how the telescreens would start talking about how production of different items was up and exceeded government projections. But looking at the world around him, and through his job of changing the information previously published in the newspaper, he knew that wasn't true. Listening to the media talk about how "wonderful" the economy is and with the PNAC idea of perpetual war, I wonder if Orwell realized how prescient he was.

[Piperay]

63. Sorry World, but my sole

reason for existing on this Planet is not to just shop. x( I have too much crap already, my house won't hold anymore.:o I'm afraid it is going to have to be up to someone else to do the 'patriotic thing':eyes: by shopping cause it won't be me!

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

66. I'm a missing shopper

because I'm in another category called- 'foreclosures'. Can't do much shopping when you can't make a house payment.......