Kerry: Bush Lets Groups Do 'Dirty Work'

[wicket]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040819/ap_on_el_pr/kerry_war_critic

Sen. John Kerry accused President Bush on Thursday of relying on front groups to challenge his record of valor in Vietnam, asserting, "He wants them to do his dirty work."

Defending his record, the Democratic presidential candidate said, "Thirty years ago, official Navy reports documented my service in Vietnam and awarded me the Silver Star, the Bronze Star and three Purple Hearts."

"Thirty years ago, this was the plain truth. It still is. And I still carry the shrapnel in my leg from a wound in Vietnam."

Kerry received five medals for his service in Vietnam a generation ago, but his record has come under campaign challenge in television commercials aired by "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth," funded by supporters of the president.

Bush and the White House have refused to condemn the ads, despite calls to do so — from Sen. John McCain R-Ariz., a former Vietnam prisoner of war, as well as from Democrats.

--------------------------------------------------------

Alright!!!! Push back at 'em Mr. Kerry!!!!! :D :D

[Joanne98]

1. It's about time

He needs to hit these guys hard.

[wicket]

3. I love this part:

Aides said the commercial would air in Ohio, West Virginia and Wisconsin, three battleground states. The decision to advertise even in a limited fashion marked a change in course for the campaign, which had hoped to remain off the air for August to conserve cash for the fall campaign.

In his speech, Kerry employed a wartime metaphor.

"More than 30 years ago I learned an important lesson. When you're under attack the best thing to do is turn your boat into the attack. That's what I intend to do today."

WOO HOO!!!!!!! :headbang:

[Beware the Beast Man]

4. Exactamundo!

Kerry's got a good head of steam now; I don't think coming hard could hurt him that much.

[Zynx]

2. Time to go on the attack against these fuckers and Bush.

And now we are doing it in grand fashion. We'll mop the floor with them because the truth is on our side.

[MallRat]

5. I believe we've just witnessed a little political jujitsu, folks.

Think about it.

Kerry waits for MoveOn to blast Bush's TANG service record in an ad campaign, then immediately comes out and condemns the ad.

THEN, and only then, does Kerry return fire against the Swiftboat Liars. The most damning argument he makes is this passage right here:

"But here's what you really need to know about them. They're funded by hundreds of thousands of dollars from a Republican contributor out of Texas. They're a front for the Bush campaign. And the fact that the President won't denounce what they're up to tells you everything you need to know. He wants them to do his dirty work."

The Bush campaign cannot come back and claim moral equivalency with a, "we'll denounce the Swiftboaters when you denounce MoveOn," because KERRY HAS ALREADY CONDEMNED THE MOVEON AD.

Bush looks very, very small right now. He has two choices, and both of them are bad. Bush can continue to allow the Swiftboat Liars to slander away, sliming him by association in the process; or he can relent and condemn the ads, which will make him look weak in many ways (admitting a mistake, yielding under direct pressure from Kerry himself, etc.)

This is fucking brilliant, folks. The KE04 campaign's patience is about to pay off, bigtime.

-MR

[wicket]

6. I think Karl Rove just crapped his pants!

:D :headbang: He has been out-Roved ;)

[King Coal]

61. LOL! At least his pants fit better now!

[wicket]

65. Ewwwwwwwww!

:evilgrin: hehehehehehe :)

[enigmatic]

9. That's exactly what's happened...

and it's what a number of people here have been trying to explain to those who have been saying that Kerry has run a terrible campaign, despite being ahead in every major poll. Maybe now they'll let Kerry run his race they way he intends to; he knows what he's doing.

[creeksneakers2]

51. This is better but still bad

The picture the media wants to draw for this election is one of a tough guy (George Bush) beating up an intellectual while the intellectual tries to talk his way out. "I'm running a positive campaign." Bush wants to draw the same picture. Its the only way he can go right now.

The basic strategy of the GOP is to make Kerry look weak. They need to put him on defense. They are going to say Kerry is too afraid to answer questions. If Kerry doesn't answer he'll look weak. If Kerry does answer he'll look weak because he's being forced to answer questions. Kerry said he was on offense today, but he was on defense. He was defending himself against the ads.

Kerry accused the White House today of masterminding the ads. He has no proof. The White House laughed at this one. I heard the news a half an hour ago and they already said Kerry was striking back because the ads were hurting him. (Kerry on the defensive) They went with the Kerry charge of White House involvement right away. Then they went with the White House laughing it off. The picture they are drawing is a frightened Kerry lashing out with a wild punch.

Of course the media is going to go with the Kerry charge of White House involvement. Its the big story. Before Kerry spoke up today, the story was one of the swift boat vets lied in an affidavit. The story was about vicious, dishonest right wing attacks against a man's war record. Bush was going to get his ass kicked today until Kerry spoke up.

If Kerry goes on offense now it will look like he's doing it because he's in trouble (Kerry on the defensive) If Kerry stays on defense he'll get carved up. I wish there was somebody up there who listened to the DU people who were saying a week ago was the time to go on offense. Bush cannot handle serious attacks.

[lancdem]

55. I disagree

He accused the WH of letting this group do their dirty work, not of orchestrating the ads. The lies in the affidavit story just reinforces his argument.

[creeksneakers2]

58. Quote

"They're a front for the Bush campaign." John Kerry

[King Coal]

62. They are a front for Bush, and it can be proved.

[Eloriel]

12. well, maybe, but

I don't think it's appropriate for him to have denounced the MoveOn ad. Why? Because it undercuts MoveOn's legitmacy, which is frankly under attack from the rightwing anyway. Further, I think it's also entirely appropriate to bring up Bush's LACK of service and desertion during Vietnam. What's not appropriate about it? Damned if I know. Did Kerry explain what's inappropriate about it? AFAIC, his "denouncement" also plays into the really frighteningly stupid rightwing claim that somehow the "President" oughtn't be subjected to that kind of scrutiny. Bullshit.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

35. Kerry's playing the game of politics, and he's playing it VERY well....

Don't you think MoveOn knows exactly why Kerry "denounced" their ad? Don't you think MoveOn knows exactly what role they need to play from now until November? Don't you think MoveOn knew exactly what they could expect from the rightwingers?

Come on, Eloriel...you're smarter than that, aren't you?

[wicket]

39. Exactly

Remember what Dem_Strategist said, Kerry is playing chess, not checkers.

[mazzarro]

50. I am in agreement with Eloriel on this!

MoveOn knowing and accepting Kerry's denouncement is not the point she is primarily interested in. It is the undercutting of the influence and impact of the organization that ought to be our concern. We will still need MoveOn to continue leading the struggle well beyond the November election. MoveOn should be nourished and helped to grow and counter the RWnger's who will resort to the methods that were used against the Big Dog.

Besides, the MoveOn ad (which deals with W*'s questionable military records) did not fall into the same category as that of the "SwiftBoat Vets For Lies".

[poliguru]

53. How is it OK

for Dems to nourish groups like MoveOn and not for Repubs to nourish groups like SwiftVets? Yes, I understand that one group lied and one group didn't, but that's not gonna play to the average person, esp. since all the average person is going to hear is "Kerry is a hypocrite" from Bush and the media. This is a campaign, and in a campaign, you have to appeal to the largest number of voters. Kerry's not going to do that if he appears two-faced.

[lancdem]

57. He's not a hypocrite

that's why he condemned the moveon ad.

[poliguru]

64. That's my point

[Cicero]

59. I have to agree...

...in fact, listening to Rush today, he's even claiming that the MoveOn ad was put out for the purpose of having Kerry denounce it, thus putting him on the moral high ground. (Yeah, yeah, I know, its Rush, he says a lot of things. And in '92 he was saying (at this point in the campaign) the Clinton team was imploding and Bush41 would win in a landslide. Didn't happen, did it.)

I mean, come on folks, just how independent are these 527 groups anyway? I just don't believe that there is no coordination between MoveOn and Kerry, or SwiftVets and Bush. Impossible.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. These 527 ads (starting with the SwiftVet ad) are the poison fruits of McCain-Feingold Campaign Finance "Reform".

Later,

[vickie]

67. For those who are listening to (the fatman) Rush, how is he

responding to the Kerry counterattack? Is he screaming like a stuck pig (the way he does when the WH and right wingers are taking a hit) or is he just spewing more lies?

Specifically, how did he respond to the story in today's Post about the contridiction with one of the Swift Liars own citation.

The few bits that I've heard from him lately, he was squawking like an insane person.

Thank you for you brave souls who can tolerate listening to this puffed up sanctimonious, hypocritical gas bag.

[Cicero]

69. He says Kerry is on the defensive

...that Dole and Bush41 earned medals, too, but did not brag about every waking hour. He says Kerry's constant referral and basing of his campaign on his Vietnam record makes it fair game for attack

As for the contridition, he's downplaying it pretty heavily. I for one think its a much bigger deal than Rush wants to admit. The SwiftVets are looking mighty shady.

later,

[Inland]

14. I agree, well handled

For once, taking the high road allows us to pummel lowlifes like Bush.

[olddem43]

25. These are excellent points - and

there are many DUers and others that presume to tell Kerry how to run his campaign better.

[Cocoa]

28. excellent analysis

and don't forget the media whores. What you say about the Bush campaign also applies to all the commentary we've heard from the pundits.

[EST]

32. Thank you!

O.K. I got it now.

[sniffa]

63. did kerry denounce moveon?

somebody just made the comment that kerry shouLd denounce anyone who questions bush going awoL..

is their a Link to kerry's denouncement?

[faithnotgreed]

68. oh man. thats the hi yaaa! of jujitsu moves (kerry hand coming firmly

down on * and his little head)

[Democat]

73. I suspect Kerry was not prepared for the press coverage these guys got

Clinton had rapid response. Kerry just showed us response when you absolutely no longer can deny that you have to do something.

[Zhade]

74. I still don't like Kerry's denouncing MoveOn's ad...

...but I gotta admit, this was a bold move, and I tip my hat to them on this one.

[Beetwasher]

7. Hot Damn!!

Bring it on!!!!

[DemoTex]

8. The battle is joined. Warrior vs. Chickenhawk.

My money is on that French-looking guy.

[wicket]

10. While Bush was busy snorting blow and getting drunk...

....Kerry was taking enemy fire in the Mekong Delta! :D Bring it on!!!!!!!!

[emulatorloo]

11. Go Rate this one a 5 - it is being FREEPED!

Here's the link again:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040819/ap_on_el_pr/kerry_war_critic&cid=694&ncid=2043

[wicket]

15. Done! Now everyone rate it a 5!!!

N/T

[Zynx]

18. Just did it.

[EST]

44. Done!

n/t

[vickie]

66. Just rated it 5!

[shawmut]

20. done

the freepies are in a snit. teehee

[sniffa]

21. yahoo message boards are kiLLing me

f'n cnuts everywhere.

[wicket]

22. I can't read Yahoo boards any more

It's bad for my blood pressure!!! There are just so many scum sucking gnats there.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

27. Currently 'most viewed'

and that's all that counts:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=index&cid=1776

[NewYorkerfromMass]

29. Down to No. 2

after Najaf fighting story.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

60. down to 3

After " 'Fat Darrell' Crowned As Best Sandwich" !?!?!

[Inland]

13. But be fair: Bush let's everyone do his work for him, dirty or not

[wicket]

16. Dirty work

Hmmm...I bet he still needs Laura to wipe his ass!

Ok, sorry that was gross hehehehehe ;)

[TahitiNut]

24. Yup. It's the "you work for me" ideology.

Funny how we just pass on that phrase. Funny how easily we accept the notion that someone else can be the primary beneficiary of our labor. We've totally forgotten that all wealth is created by labor and it's the needs of people that create 'jobs' and not companies.

Duhbya's entire life has been one of entitlements, the entitlements to the product of other people's labor and sacrifices. He's as clueless about this as any brainless parasite. He even brags about being an advocate for the "ownership class." Well, it's clear he has no respect whatsoever for the "working class." The "working class" has not been raped as badly since the Great Depression ... and it'll only get worse before it gets better. Congress has a hardcore group of over 100 slaveholder advocates: people who vote solely for "ownership" entitlements.

[snippy]

49. Just part of Bush's shirk ethic. n/t

[realcountrymusic]

17. A great idea for a Kerry ad

He should do a voice-over saying what he said in that speech, while the screen shows one unchanging image: an X-ray of the shrapnel fragment still in his body.

RCM

[DoveTurnedHawk]

19. This Is a GREAT Article, by Whore Ron Fournier, No Less

I am in shock.

:crazy:

DTH

[ignatius 2]

23. Thank you John Kerry, you were a fighter 30 yers ago when you

had to be and are once again.

How can the sleazy and underhanded attacks by the GOP against McCain, Cleland and Kerry, all decorated vets, be reconciled with their mantra of supporting the troops. Is this how the GOP will treat the Iraqi vets 30 years from now?

[The Icon Painter]

26. Rated

and kicked

[WyLoochka]

30. Interesting morsel in ABC article

http://abcnews.go.com/wire/Politics/ap20040819_790.html

"Senior Democrats, including some inside the presidential campaign, have urged Kerry to respond forcefully to the criticism, fearing that if left unanswered, it could hamper his quest for the White House."

I think it closer to reality that "senior Democrats" - finally - paid a little attention to the passionate advocacy of a forceful response expressed by DUers for two long long weeks.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

41. DU, and those alleged "senior Democrats", have very little...

...to do with the TIMING of Kerry's response, and TIMING in politics is everything.

Some of you folks think immediate knee-jerk reactions are required everytime one of Kerry's opponents makes a comment. You seem to forget that Kerry has been in the political trenches for quite some time and knows exactly what he's doing.

[Democat]

75. On the other hand, you assume this is strategy, which is not a given

It is possible that responding right now was strategy.

Another very likely possibility is that Kerry thought he could ignore this and it would go away. When he saw the numbers come out this week showing the Swift Liars book at #2 on the sales charts, he had no choice but to respond.

We have heard that Kerry has been fighting these people for 30 years, but it is doubtfult that at anytime in the last 30 years the media would have done what they did in this case. They media gave them unlimited coverage and helped them attack Kerry.

Clinton believes in "rapid response" and this was not a rapid response.

We simply do not know what took Kerry so long to respond to this. Was it strategy or did he finally wake up and realize it's not going away on its own?

[Courtesy Flush]

31. Let's be intellectually honest here

Kerry has Michael Moore and MoveOn doing his dirty work. Bush* has SwiftVets.

Candidates always keep their own hands clean.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

33. Kerry denounced the MoveOn ad- BUsh has not done the same

with Swiftless Vets. That's a fact.

[geek tragedy]

34. Wtf?

The Bush right-wing slime machine has no parallel on the progressive side. None whatsoever.

Intellectual honesty does not mean that both sides are equally to blame.

[Courtesy Flush]

42. Sorry, but

It bothers me that our party responds so hungrily to propaganda, as long as it says what we WANT to hear. The freepers are gobbling up the SwiftVet crap like it was gospel. We should not fall into the same trap, no matter how pretty the propaganda is.

A lot of things bother me about the direction the party is taking. We should be able to kick ass on pure facts.

I don't know who will win in November, but I know who'll lose... all of us.

Yes, I'll vote the party ticket, but let's be honest here.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

46. Gee...Are You Saying Kerry and Rassmann Are Pushing Propaganda?

:eyes:

DTH

[wicket]

47. Oh give me a break!

:eyes:

[Media_Lies_Daily]

48. Speaking of being honest, the bottom line is removing the NeoCons....

...from their illegally gained positions of power. Period.

You can complain all you want about the directions of the party, but it's not going to do any good until AFTER Kerry is elected, and then it's still going to take quite a bit of time to correct the damage done by the NeoCons.

And to what "propaganda" are you referring? Is there anything about F911 and/or MoveOn that you believe to be dishonest or blatant lies?

[Courtesy Flush]

52. I can't argue with that.

Yes, the goal is important. I realize there's a lot at stake here. I just hate to see the good guys put on a bad guise.

As for propaganda, I believe good propaganda has its roots in true facts, carefully edited and presented. It's still dirty politics in my book. Sorry if I hold our politicians to a high standard, but somebody's got to have high standards, and it ain't gonna be Bush*.

[Bush_Eats_Beef]

56. Yes, let's be honest here

Post evidence that the Kerry campaign has doen anything even approaching the scale of what I've pasted below...either by John Kerry personally, or by someone that you can link directly with valid documentation, then we can all "get honest" together.

There is NOTHING in the Kerry campaign remotely CLOSE to the string-pulling satyr dance of Karl Rove. NOTHING.

"The reason Bush's duty has become an issue is the hypocritical attacks his people have made on Kerry's. Bush's campaign machine, run by Karl Rove, is a skunk-works factory of dirty tricks. Their campaign against an immensely popular McCain in South Carolina 4 years ago was classic Rove. Play on the South's continued inherent racism by suggesting, in push polls, that McCain fathered an illegitimate black child. Combine that with Bush's scheduled speech at the racist, unaccredited Bob Jones University, and the Bush campaign drew a clear distinction between a Bush who shares the values of white South Carolina and a degenerate McCain who fathers black children out of wedlock. Bush wins the primary and goes on to steal the election in Jeb Bush's Florida.

The fact that the Bush campaign never actually said outright that McCain had fathered a black child is the brilliance of the strategy. The polling went like this: "Would it change your opinion of John McCain if you knew that he fathered an illegitimate african american child?". This was combined with rumors leaked to the press from unattributed sources. The implication, which Rove knew a sizable amount of people would draw, was that McCain had indeed fathered an illegitimate child and he was polling to find out how much it would hurt him. It doesn't make it any more ethical, and it doesn't make it any less a lie in the sense of its results on the opinion of McCain held by the South Carolinian public.

The debacle in Florida where thousands of African American voters were purged from the polls, not for any wrongdoing, but because their names were similar to crinimals in the Florida system - as if there was no other way to determine who was whom. The staged demonstration outside the doors of the Palm Beach courthouse, intended to sway public opinion towards Bush, was actually a large group of Republican Congressional interns flown down from DC for the event. Who arranged the display? Karl Rove.

Now, Karl Rove sees Kerry's military service as a threat to his guy. Kerry did detail his record in his campaign as he is justifiably proud of it, but he drew no comparisons between his record and Bush's until Rove started planting stories with the conservative propaganda machine questioning his actions in nam. Rove feels he has to destroy the public perception of Kerry's record in order to win. From all accounts on this board, he has been wildly successful."

http://speakout.com/forum_view.asp?Forum=John_Kerry&MID=8210&mMID=7795

[lordwhorfin]

70. In what way

is MoveOn 'pushing propaganda' by questioning the DimSon's time in the TANG? There are REAL issues there, the LEAST of which is that it says in black and white in the Hughes-ghosted 'autobiography' 'A Charge to Keep' that Bush continued to fly with the TANG 'fore several years' after he finished training. Even Bush admits that this is bull. Bush's service in TANG is questionable, and his efforts to blur and cover up those questions are the issues that really relate to his honesty now.

If Bush had stuck to what he told the Houston Chronicle in the early 1990s (that he didn't want to serve IN 'NAM and the Guard was his way out), had minimized that issue in 'A Charge to Keep' rather than lying about it, and NOT had his slimy proxies attack Kerry's service in 'Nam, then Bush would not be facing these issues now. The campaign would be cleaner for it, but it isn't MoveOn's issue and it's certainly NOT Kerry's.

[Democat]

72. Let's be honest here, starting with you

:)

[wicket]

Big difference

Kerry denounced the Moveon ads. :eyes:

[WyLoochka]

38. Neither Moore nor MoveOn

Have bald faced lied.

BIG difference.

[ignatius 2]

40. Intellectual and honest are two words that don't belong together

when discussing the slimeballs at the GOP.

[slinkerwink]

43. If you were intellectually honest, you'd have known Kerry denounced

the Moveon.org Ad about Bush's Vietnam service.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

45. Who's being "intellectually" dishonest?

[Hobarticus]

36. Attaboy, John!

Just like in 'Nam...

Kerry rolls up his sleeves and gets to work, Bush lets the po' folk fight for him!

[DU GrovelBot]

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[TheDonkey]

54. Shrub is crying in his living room right now.

Kerry is pissed and after him. He's timed this very well, waiting for a liberal ad to come up, denounce it and point the finger at AWOL for not denouncing the thug one.

[wicket]

71. The timing on this was excellent

:)

[wicket]

76. kick!

:kick: