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Snellius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-15-04 09:20 PM
Original message
F.B.I. Goes Knocking for Political Troublemakers
WASHINGTON, Aug. 15 - The Federal Bureau of Investigation has been questioning political demonstrators across the country, and in rare cases even subpoenaing them, in an aggressive effort to forestall what officials say could be violent and disruptive protests at the Republican National Convention in New York.

F.B.I. officials are urging agents to canvass their communities for information about planned disruptions aimed at the convention and other coming political events, and they say they have developed a list of people who they think may have information about possible violence. They say the inquiries, which began last month before the Democratic convention in Boston, are focused solely on possible crimes, not dissent, at major political events.

But some people contacted by the F.B.I. say they are mystified by the bureau's interest and felt harassed by questions about their political plans.

"The message I took from it," said Sarah Bardwell, 21, an intern at a Denver antiwar group who was visited by six investigators a few weeks ago, "was that they were trying to intimidate us into not going to any protests and to let us know that, 'hey, we're watching you.' ''

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/16/politics/campaign/16fbi.html?hp
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Tight_rope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-15-04 09:24 PM
Response to Original message
1. Now ain't this some shit. Arrest the criminal before the crime!
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Cerridwen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-15-04 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. There was a movie about that...don't remember the name - n/t
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madmax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-15-04 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. 'Minority Report'.. n/t
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Cerridwen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-15-04 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. Yep, thanks - n/t
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0rganism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-15-04 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. Minority Report, perhaps?
Strange little film, that was...
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Cerridwen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-15-04 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. That be it, thank you - n/t
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ignatius 2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-16-04 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #3
51. The Iraq war..kill the enemy before they might have a plan to
kill you. This is like the Mccarty b/s..watching citizens,intimidating them when they have done nothing wrong.

It must be a bitch to be so paranoid.
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thecrow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-15-04 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #1
10. That's the new peremptive way, you know.... n/t
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-15-04 09:26 PM
Response to Original message
2. Tell them to fuck off or we will have their piss-ant jobs. nt
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Cerridwen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-15-04 09:27 PM
Response to Original message
4. And it begins in earnest

Not even trying to hide it - and they'll get away with it, too.

In the name of the War on Terror.


I wonder if it's time for Skinner to strip all the pics out of here?

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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-15-04 09:28 PM
Response to Original message
5. 4 more years of Bu$h, and these folks will disappear in the middle of
the night, never to be seen or heard from again.

Please, please vote for John Kerry.
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wildeyed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-16-04 07:37 AM
Response to Reply #5
40. yep
I am thinking this is true.
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Rose Siding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-15-04 09:28 PM
Response to Original message
6. True or false?
Articles like this will suppress protest turnout, just when they should increase them.

I happen to think that all the press about the cages in Boston kept some away. We need to know, of course! But there is an unhappy consequence.
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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-15-04 09:33 PM
Response to Original message
7. Parse this sentence
They say the inquiries, which began last month before the Democratic convention in Boston, are focused solely on possible crimes, not dissent, at major political events.

What if they interpret "crimes" as meaning any act of civil disobedience: blocking traffic, marching in a location without a permit, refusing to move when ordered by police, etc.

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0rganism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-15-04 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. Yes, civil disobedience is typically considered a crime
since it tends to involve breaking rules and/or obstructing access.
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thecrow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-15-04 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #7
15. I urge you to read this document...
The U.S.P.A.T.R.I.O.T act.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-15-04 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
13. Keeping Americans safe from dissent.








Ve are vatching you! Ve haf vays of making you talk!
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noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-15-04 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #13
20. Ve are vatching you! Ve haf vays of making you talk!
I'm not sure if that line is more or less funny because of this cartoon (from the Taguba Report):
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Tight_rope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-15-04 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #20
27. ROTFLMBAO.....Good one... Welcome to DU lwfern!
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-15-04 09:45 PM
Response to Original message
16. Michael Moores Farenheit 911..Remember the Peace Group
they were being spyed on and were infiltrated by the Sheriff's department

What is the FBI's job here

to Infiltrate and Spy on the Citizens of America excercising their American rights of Speech

Shouldn't they be questioning the Arabs who were on that Plane they flew out to Saudia Arabia....instead of Peace Protestors

:argh:

Moore had it right ...its a bunch of BS
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francisurquhart Donating Member (8 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-15-04 09:58 PM
Response to Original message
17. Good God
Those of you going to New York City: be good. For the love of God, be good.

I'm reading the various sites working on this (Indymedia, RNCnotwelcome, etc) and I've got a bad feeling.

Understand IF YOU BREAK STUFF, HIT PEOPLE, SET FIRES, GET IN FIGHTS, ETC, you WILL NOT HELP OUR CAUSE AND YOU'LL JUSTIFY MEASURES AGAINST US AMONG THE PUBLIC.

If we get riots in New York and people killed, the GOP spin machine will do everything possible to make "protestor=terrorist" in the public's mind, and since they're already working on "John Kerry=protestor" you get the picture.
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-15-04 11:09 PM
Response to Reply #17
28. Francis -- something you need to know about
They're called agents provocateurs and they are the authorities pretending to be protesters. Their jobs are to infiltrate and to cause trouble so that exactly what you are warning about happens. They've been part of American dissent actions since at least the 60s, if not before.

The lesson is: if you hear about "bad things" happening at protests, do NOT for one minute automatically believe press reports that it was those bad ole nasty protesters who were to blame, who started it all. In fact, if you're smart in this day and age, you'll automatically suspect those agents provocateurs.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-15-04 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. Oh, they go back way before Woody Wilson.
We've had this monkey on our backs a long time.
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wildeyed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-16-04 07:51 AM
Response to Reply #28
41. Yes, but what is
worrisome is the fact that the press is clearly against us, and the average voter is not particularly well informed. They will believe anything they see on TV.

I live in the conservative south. People here are not happy with bush. But they are deeply conventional and dislike overt challenges to authority. Any appearance contentious behavior on the part of the protesters will just serve to drive these voters back into the arms of the gops.
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Spiffarino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-16-04 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #28
56. See #55 in this thread. They're already planning it.
And they probably will get away with it thanks to 9/11 fearmongering.
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JimHarper3 Donating Member (21 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-15-04 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #17
31. Another equal sign
Democrat = terrorist .... in the minds of some of these people.
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burrowowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-15-04 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #17
32. When protesting the Vietnam War
Edited on Sun Aug-15-04 11:20 PM by burrowowl
the people who BROKE, HIT PEOPLE, SET FIRES, etc. or who encouraged people to do so were agent provocateurs, i.e., gov't agents of one ilk or the other.
One always has to watch out for these fucktards.
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Wednesdays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-16-04 12:26 AM
Response to Reply #32
34. Yes...
"One always has to watch out for these fucktards."

Especially the ones wearing ski masks, etc.
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Bernardo de La Paz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-16-04 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #34
58. Encircle anyone with face hidden and persuade them to reveal themselves
Surround and link arms around anyone with their face hidden. Persuade them to remove their masks and reveal themselves. Photograph or video them from head to toe.

Brook no disruptors.
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bleedingheart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-15-04 10:01 PM
Response to Original message
18. sounds like the KGB or the NKVD...
there's democracy for ya.
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Endangered Specie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-15-04 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #18
23. or the "Geheime Staatspolizei"
(Gestapo)
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troublemaker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-15-04 10:02 PM
Response to Original message
19. Uh Oh! Time for me to get a new nickname
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Dover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-15-04 10:36 PM
Response to Reply #19
24. Lol! How about changing it to "anarchistshelper"
:evilgrin:
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Dover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-15-04 10:25 PM
Response to Original message
21. Comes directly from the Justice Dept.........guess who?
Edited on Sun Aug-15-04 10:28 PM by Dover

The unusual initiative comes after the Justice Department, in a previously undisclosed legal opinion, gave its blessing to controversial tactics used last year by the F.B.I in urging local police departments to report suspicious activity at political and antiwar demonstrations.

The bulletins that relayed that request detailed tactics used by demonstrators - everything from violent resistance to Internet fund-raising and recruitment.

In an internal complaint, an F.B.I. employee charged that the bulletins improperly blurred the line between lawfully protected speech and illegal activity.

But the Justice Department's Office of Legal Policy, in a five-page internal analysis obtained by The New York Times, disagreed.

The office, which also made headlines in June in an opinion - since disavowed - that authorized the use of torture against terrorism suspects in some circumstances, said any First Amendment impact posed by the F.B.I.'s monitoring of the political protests was negligible and constitutional.

The opinion said: "Given the limited nature of such public monitoring, any possible 'chilling' effect caused by the bulletins would be quite minimal and substantially outweighed by the public interest in maintaining safety and order during large-scale demonstrations."



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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-15-04 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #21
30. Ah, yes. "There ought to be limits to freedom"
One of W's famous pronouncements.
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nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-16-04 12:42 AM
Response to Reply #30
35. Infamous quotes by Dubya

Vancouver against war
by kei20000@ • Saturday January 18, 2003 at 11:50 PM
[email protected] vancouver B.C

Vancouver people today call for end to U.s militarism in all the world .... January 18, 2003 in vancouver library square ,the people says: No racist war! Education not Occupation! No blood for oil!
(snip)
http://vancouver.indymedia.org/print.php?id=28554
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Endangered Specie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-15-04 10:26 PM
Response to Original message
22. Looks like the S.A. brownshirts are up to no good.
SA Marschieren!
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dArKeR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-15-04 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. The GOP Nazis are here: http://darkerxdarker.tripod.com/
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Endangered Specie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-15-04 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. GOP?, should start referring to them as the NSDAP!
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undergroundpanther Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-15-04 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #26
33. they say,,,
one of the biggest defenses against torture and 'interrogation' is...plain old ...apathy.
Interrogators can get driven crazy, if they find out nothing they can say or do can get to you ..Apathy is one mechanism they can't control.Non participation,no one can make you care.They can't scare you,threaten,intimidate or blackmail you if you don't give a shit about anything or care what anyone thinks about you or what anyone else says about you anymore..They may try to find anything to use psychologically as a 'wedge'but if you put yourself in a mindspace where llife does not mean shitto you anymore and you admit that control means nothing,identity means nothing,life is meaningless they can't do anything with that additude.

In truth people in power can do all sorts of shit to you,fuck with your mind, body,pride,relationships, ect.But they cannot make you submit to thier will,talk, or force you to care about them until you decide to.


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Democat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-16-04 12:56 AM
Response to Original message
36. Bullshit
The Bush admin is anti-Constitution.
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dArKeR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-16-04 01:07 AM
Response to Original message
37. I thought they just planted bombs under environmentalists cars!
FBI Whistleblower Testifies That Government Scientist Lied About Bomb Crystals
A government scientist lied when he claimed that ammonium nitrate crystals found on Oklahoma City bombing debris had been embedded by the force of the blast, an FBI whistleblower testified Wednesday at bombing conspirator Terry Nichols' state murder trial.

Frederic Whitehurst, testifying for the defense, said an FBI forensic scientist he trained himself, Steven Burmeister, also lied when he testified that the crystals came from the kind of fertilizer believed to have been used in the bombing.

Whitehurst said there was not enough evidence to support either of Burmeister's conclusions.

"He is my student. And I trust him like a brother. But he lied under oath. He lied," Whitehurst said, appearing to grimace with emotion.
http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGAHWG3VFUD.html


Lost In Translation
Edmonds says that the supervisor, in an effort to slow her down, went so far as to erase completed translations from her FBI computer after she'd left work for the day.


“The next day I would come to work, turn on my computer and the work would be gone. The translation would be gone,” she says. “Then I had to start all over again and retranslate the same document. And I went to my supervisor and he said, ‘Consider it a lesson and don't talk about it to anybody else and don't mention it.’”
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/10/25/60minutes/main526954.shtml


FBI official charged with obstruction after concealing Ruby Ridge report
(Harp was in on this too and now he heads the anthrax cover-up.)
http://www.cnn.com/US/9610/22/ruby.ridge.final /


Busting the FBI
The Judi Bari verdict bares government lies and deceit
They found that six agents of the FBI and the Oakland police twisted a murder attempt against Judi Bari and Darryl Cherney, two Earth First! activists working to reform logging practices
http://www.laweekly.com/ink/02/31/news-kuipers.php


Fighting an FBI frame-up
An Earth First! member relates how she and Darryl Cherney were framed by the FBI for a car bombing that nearly killed them. The frame-up was one of a long series of events in the FBI's campaign against the environmental movement. It has been four years since Darryl Cherney and I were nearly killed in a 1990 car-bomb assassination attempt, then arrested for possession of the bomb
http://www.wildrockies.org/cove/news/62194nw.html


Did The FBI Destroy Evidence?
The FBI and prosecutors ordered the destruction in 1999 of evidence from a bank robbery they once suspected linked Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh to white supremacists who were threatening before McVeigh's bombing to attack the government, documents show.
The evidence included a surveillance videotape of a bank robbery by some of the supremacists that occurred in Ohio five months before the bombing. The FBI lab compared the tape to pictures of McVeigh, but concluded a match was "inconclusive," internal memos show.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/02/12/national/main540266.shtml



FBI Whistleblower Harassed
Special agent John Roberts says he was threatened, intimidated and humiliated for exposing what he said has become a pattern of misconduct at the highest levels of the FBI and that has gone unpunished.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/11/25/60minutes/main530750.shtml



FBI Meeting Called A Sham
A Justice Department investigation into a 1997 retirement dinner for former FBI Deputy Director Larry A. Potts said senior bureau executives used a sham conference at the FBI training academy in Quantico, Va., to justify using taxpayer funds for cross-country travel to Washington.
http://www.americansovereign.com/newsarchive/fbisham.htm



Phone records: Link from state official to FBI
Deputy AG reportedly sought federal aid to find missing Democrats
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dallas/politics/state/stories/...


The FBI is conducting an exhaustive review of each of its thousands of human intelligence sources to ensure the information they provide is accurate and that their relationships with FBI handlers are proper.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/04/28/national/main551346.shtml

-----------

Earth Threatened, Wen Ho Lee Released
http://unquietmind.com/wenholee.html

Wen Ho Lee is Just one more example of FBI Misdirection. Many elements of the case are similar to Unabomber Charade. Together they are textbook examples of Government tactics on Black Ops.
http://www.unabombers.com/z23.htm

http://www.wenholee.org /

------------


FBI Agent, Turner, blew whistle on Ground Zero, 911, theft.
She says she immediately reported the problem to a federal prosecutor, then to her supervisor, and waited for him to act.
Two weeks later, after nothing apparently had been done, Turner seized the globe, bagged it as evidence and took it to Justice Department officials in Washington.
(She's being fired.)
http://www.msnbc.com/news/907004.asp?0cv=CB10

-------

Poll: 4 out of 10 Americans don't trust FBI
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2001-05-22-mcveigh-pollstory.htm

-------

With defense lawyers stepping up challenges to genetic evidence, the Justice Department inspector general is examining the FBI lab unit that analyzes DNA in hundreds of cases a year after a technician was caught failing to follow proper procedure.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/03/11/tech/main543575.shtml

-------

FBI says it withheld evidence from McVeigh lawyers
http://www.cnn.com/2001/LAW/05/10/mcveigh.evidence.02 /

Nichols: FBI Withheld On Purpose
A lawyer for Terry Nichols, who was convicted as Timothy McVeigh's assistant in the Oklahoma City bombing, claimed the FBI may have intentionally withheld documents from defense lawyers and misled federal prosecutors.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/05/14/national/main291113.shtml

FBI report on agents released after long delay

An internal FBI report kept under wraps for three years details dozens of cases of agents fired for egregious misconduct and crimes, including drug trafficking, attempted murder, theft, misuse of informants and consorting with prostitutes.

The report, released Wednesday by Sen. Charles Grassley, R-Iowa, found that about one in 1,000 agents was dismissed for serious misconduct or criminal offenses by the FBI during the period examined, from 1986 to 1999. The average was between eight and nine per year.

Although the numbers were small, the FBI’s attempts to prevent the report’s disclosure from the public and Congress since its completion in June 2000 is raising questions among FBI critics about an attempt to avoid embarrassment.

Grassley, a senior member of the Senate Judiciary Committee, said in a letter Wednesday to FBI Director Robert Mueller that he was concerned about “a lack of response to the findings and recommendations, a general lack of support for the project and even efforts to prevent its completion.”

Grassley said the report “almost never saw the light of day.” It was only provided to lawmakers in July 2003, months after it was requested, and was accompanied by a Justice Department letter urging that it be kept confidential.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4312671/



PORTLAND, May 24 (Reuters) - A Muslim attorney from Oregon, held for two weeks, often manacled and chained, as a material witness in the March 11 train bombing in Spain, was cleared on Monday with an apology from the U.S. Federal Bureau of Investigation.

"Hamdullilah, thank God I'm here," 37 year-old Brandon Mayfield told a packed press conference.

Mayfield, who was released on Friday, had been held under the 1984 material witness law because Spanish authorities and the Federal Bureau of Investigation had thought that a single fingerprint on a bag with detonators found near a Madrid train station matched his print.

But the Federal District Court said on Monday that "he was the victim of a misidentification by the FBI" and at a separate FBI press conference, Robert Jordan, the FBI agent in charge of the Oregon office, apologized to Mayfield and his family for the hardships his detention has caused.

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N24384876.htm


++++++++++++++++++++++

FBI Whistleblower Claims Confirmed

WASHINGTON, July 29, 2004


"The problems were systemic problems that existed within the FBI's translation units that involve security breaches and also incompetence. These were the problems I reported."
Sibel Edmonds


(CBS) A newly disclosed letter confirmed charges by a former FBI interpreter that she was fired at least in part because she blew the whistle on incompetent workers at the bureau.

When the FBI fired interpreter Sibel Edmonds more than two years ago after only a few months on the job, it had no idea the can of worms it was opening up. And today it got yet another taste.

In a letter released on Capitol Hill, FBI Director Robert Mueller acknowledged that the a recently concluded internal Justice Department investigation found "a contributing factor" in Edmonds firing was the fact that she had accused the bureau of ineptitude, reports CBS News Correspondent Jim Stewart.

Edmonds insisted today, the ineptitude still exists.

"The problems were systemic problems that existed within the FBI's translation units that involve security breaches and also incompetence. These were the problems I reported," she said.

Edmonds is now working on her PhD and acts as an advisor to the Sept. 11 families. It was just after the Sept. 11 attacks that she offered her services to the FBI as a Turkish and Middle Eastern language specialist.

But shortly after joining the bureau's Washington field office, she said she encountered sloppy work by colleagues and was told by superiors to work slower so the bureau might justify demands for a bigger budget.

"I was warned that if I were to make these issues public and take them outside the bureau I would be retaliated against and I would be fired. And exactly that's what occurred," she said.

Mueller said he would work with the Justice Department to determine whether disciplinary action is required of any bureau employees as a result of the Edmonds case.

Meanwhile the bureau insists it has made progress with its translation problems by hiring more interpreters. On Sept. 11 it had only 70 Arabic speakers. Now it has over 200, but acknowledges it still needs more.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/07/29/eveningnews/main632983.shtml



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ellie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-16-04 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #37
44. It's time to defund the FBI and CIA
now! Stop the corruption!
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-16-04 06:54 AM
Response to Original message
38. kick
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dand Donating Member (636 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-16-04 07:15 AM
Response to Original message
39. Scary when you look in the same edition and see the following:
By Bob Herbert:

Suppress the Vote?
State police officers have gone into the homes of elderly black voters in Orlando FL and interrogated them as part an odd "investigation" that has frightened many voters, intimidated elderly volunteers and thrown a chill over efforts to get out the black vote in November. A truly chilling article.


http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/16/opinion/16herbert.html
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-16-04 08:54 AM
Response to Reply #39
45. The long and ugly tradition of suppressing the black vote is alive
The long and ugly tradition of suppressing the black vote is alive and thriving in the Sunshine State.
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Tiberius Donating Member (798 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-16-04 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #39
48. wow
Boy oh boy. Every day is such a schizo trip. Some days I think,

"It's gonna be Kerry by a landslide. He's got a much bigger lead than the polls suggest."

... then I think ...

"blackboxvoting, purged voters, intimidation of the elderly electorate, non-stop terra alerts, barbed wire free speech zones"

In dark, smokey back rooms all across our country they're dreaming up new methods to suppress votes and voices. What country am I living in?
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-16-04 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #48
49. YOUR QUESTION--- What country am I living in?
MY ANSWER-----Amerika 2004


Home of the Sheet and Hood

Land of the Brown Shirt and Stripped Flag


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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-16-04 07:59 AM
Response to Original message
42. The FBI is anti-American. They are the brownshirts for the Bush Crime
Family.
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wordout Donating Member (355 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-16-04 08:40 AM
Response to Original message
43. I hear ya knockin but ya can't come in
BOOM! BOOM! BOOM!

:scared: :cry: :grouphug: :nuke: :evilgrin:


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gatlingforme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-16-04 09:25 AM
Response to Original message
46. It's par for course for Bush and Co. I can't imagine this would not
happen under the Bush BS. I wonder how many people were already intimidated and have not said anything. That is scary.
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dArKeR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-16-04 09:48 AM
Response to Original message
47. FBI Tracks Potential GOP Protesters - Yahoo
NEW YORK - Federal agents and city police are keeping tabs on people they say might try to cause trouble at the Republican National Convention, questioning activists, making unannounced visits and monitoring Web sites and meetings.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=1963&e=1&u=/ap/20040816/ap_on_el_pr/gop_convention_security_1
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nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-16-04 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #47
50. So what happened to the war on Terra anyway?
When a government spends as much time and effort to thwart it's citizens as is does to help them, it changes itself to something different than a pluralistic institution.

Government

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

A government is an organization that has the power to make and enforce laws for a certain territory. There are several definitions on what exactly constitutes a government.

The government has been defined as the dominant decision-making arm (the policy elite) of the state. The latter has been defined (by the political economist Max Weber and later political philosophy) as the organization that holds a monopoly in legitimate use of violence within its territory. If seen in ethical terms, the definition of "legitimate" is open to discussion, and implies that an organisation may be considered a state by its supporters but not by its detractors. Some define "legitimate" as simply involving active and tacit support by the vast majority of the population, i.e., the absence of civil war. (An entity that shares military/police power with independent militias and bandits is not a state in this view. It may be a "failed state.") Democratic control over the government -- and thus the state -- would encourage the legitimacy of the state in this view.

Government can also be defined as the political means of creating and enforcing laws; typically via a bureaucratic hierarchy. Under this definition, a purely despotic organisation which controls a territory without defining laws would not be considered a government.

An alternative is to define a government as an organisation that attempts to maintain control of a territory, where "control" involves activities such as collecting taxes, controlling entry and exit to the state, preventing encroachment of territory by neighbouring states and preventing the establishment of alternative governments within the country.

Governments concern themselves with many issues, such as economics, education, health, science, territory, and war.

The modern standard unit of territory comprises a country. In addition to the meaning used above, the word state can refer either to a government or to its territory. Within a territory, subnational entities may have local governments which do not have the full power of a national government.

Governments use a variety of methods to maintain control, such as police and military forces, (particularly under despotism, see also police state), making agreements with other states, and maintaining support within the state. Typical methods of maintaining support and legitimacy include providing infrastructure for justice, administration , transport, social welfare etc., claiming support of deities, providing benefits to influential groups, holding elections for important posts within the state, limiting the power of the state through laws and constitutions and appealing to nationalism. Groups opposed to government control include libertarians and anarchists
(snip)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-16-04 10:57 AM
Response to Original message
52. kick
This article should be sent to everyone you know.
Constant vigilance is the price of freedom.
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coalition_unwilling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-16-04 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
53. It's hard to know what to think
Just as the uniformed ranks are at odds with the civilian leadership of the Pentagon (various reports in mainstream media as well as indy media), I would expect those same internal schisms to be found in the FBI and CIA. Indeed, this sentence buried half-way down, alludes to such a schism: "In an internal complaint, an F.B.I. employee charged that the bulletins improperly blurred the line between lawfully protected speech and illegal activity."

Anyone who expects the progressive struggle to be short and easy needs to re-think their optimism; nonetheless, the official organs of government still maintain honest and decent people who haven't checked their honesty and decency at the door. Demonstrations against the Repukes will have all the more credibility with the general public if they employ non-violent civil disobedience.

As for agent provocateurs, we now live in an age of video cameras and I would hope that the National Lawyers Guild legal observers to the demo each have a good vidoe camera to document exactly who starts the violence.
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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-16-04 11:49 AM
Response to Original message
54. Kick!
:dem:
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Spiffarino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-16-04 11:52 AM
Response to Original message
55. Earlier talk of dressing in business attire may have merit
From Yahoo! News:

The intelligence unit of the New York Police Department has been closely monitoring Web sites run by self-described anarchists. It also has sought to infiltrate protest groups with young, scruffy-looking officers posing as activists.

Full article here:
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=536&e=2&u=/ap/20040816/ap_on_el_pr/gop_convention_security
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ElementaryPenguin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-16-04 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
57. Fuck them! We pay their fucking salaries!
Let's remind them of that little detail!

:mad:
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