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SKKY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 05:03 PM
Original message
Keyes says Obama has taken the "Slaveholders position" on abortion.
The Associated Press

CHICAGO Aug. 9, 2004 A day after jumping into the Illinois Senate race, two-time presidential hopeful Alan Keyes ripped into Democratic rival Barack Obama, saying his views on abortion are "the slaveholder's position."

http://abcnews.go.com/wire/Politics/ap20040809_1275.htm...
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MaineDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 05:04 PM
Response to Original message
1. That's repulsive! (nt)
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Maeve Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. That's Keyes! (nt)
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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 05:06 PM
Response to Original message
2. And Keyes Has Taken The "Asshole's Position" on EVERYTHING
Idiot....
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nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #2
76. Runs in the party
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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-04 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #76
96. But When Assholes Run...
...it can get very messy!!!!

:-)
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nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-04 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #96
99. When things get that low, i bust out the pink stuff
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DrWeird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 05:06 PM
Response to Original message
4. ah, the Keyes campaign.
Off to a running start I see.
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msanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 05:06 PM
Response to Original message
5. Keep talkin' Alan, keep talkin'....n/t
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madmax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #5
20. My thoughts, exactly.
Give him a mic and let him bury himself.
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Emboldened Chimp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 05:07 PM
Response to Original message
6. Yep, there's your "moderate republican" for you...
:eyes:
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Bowline Donating Member (670 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 05:08 PM
Response to Original message
7. Damn, he didn't waste a minute before he threw out the race card.
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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 05:10 PM
Response to Original message
8. Barack and his family may want to start looking for a D.C. townhouse now
:)
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alarcojon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 05:11 PM
Response to Original message
9. What a fucking scumbag!
I didn't even think that Keyes would be this foul! All the more reason to paint him early and often as a mainstream Republican.
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Dickie Flatt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 05:11 PM
Response to Original message
10. this will be fun
This ought to give a good poll boost... for barack...
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lunarboy13 Donating Member (343 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 05:15 PM
Response to Original message
11. Keyes is whacko...
We ought to tell him that we'll back off the abortion issue, but only when a MARRIED GAY COUPLE can adopt the would-be aborted fetus...

And that was just a joke, lest anyone think I have removed my cape of Pro-Choice...But it would provide the repukes with a moral dilemma...
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 05:15 PM
Response to Original message
12. Yeah...
... they picked a real "mainstream" candidate didnt' they.

And we should point out at every opportunity that this is the Republicans' idea of a mainstream candidate.
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NWHarkness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 05:15 PM
Response to Original message
13. I hope Keyes does lots of photo-ops with Bush
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w13rd0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 05:16 PM
Response to Original message
14. Wow, he's in the race for less than a day...
...and he's already playing this crap? WOW! I'm SHOCKED! SHOCKED I tell ya.
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alarcojon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #14
38. Let's wait
for the right wingers to start condemning Keyes for playing the race card. Oh wait - that would take integrity.
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Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 05:17 PM
Response to Original message
15. Good News and Bad News
The Bad News: Alan Keyes is a repulsive toady, and his skin color is incidental.

The Good News: He will piss off so many Black folks that Team Bush might as well kiss goodbye the 25 or 30 African-American voters they still have left. Because Keyes is going to outrage people like Spike, Denzel, Hally, Jesse, and Sean into speaking out. Loud.

In fact, I can scarcely wait for Aaron "A-Dub" Magruder to let the ink dry on the Boondocks this week.

Obama Barack is the future of American politics, and like Mr. Keyes, his skin color is incidental, too. The mud won't stick.

--bkl
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Insomnicole Donating Member (193 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #15
30. I *love* the other strips McGruder's done about Keyes!
Like that one where Granddad laughs hysterically for four panels and says "Keyes" when Huey asks him what's so funny.
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Tempest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #15
32. Boondocks
I was just thinking the exact same thing.

Aaron is going to have a field day with Keyes.


"A Black man voting for a Republican is like a chicken voting for Colonal Sanders."
- J.C. Watts' father
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Coventina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 05:17 PM
Response to Original message
16. Holy moley!
What is he thinking?!?!?
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #16
28. Keyes doesn't think he does what Rove tells him what to say.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #16
64. He's following orders. The Republicans are appealing to their base
this year. This is the year they think they can win big on their supposedly Biblical stances.

Let's see how well it works.
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stevedeshazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 05:18 PM
Response to Original message
17. I'm stocking up on popcorn now
If it STARTS like this, it's gonna be good!
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 05:19 PM
Response to Original message
18. Isn't that stupid? Who does he think he's kidding?
Guy seems desperate.

On CNN, he claimed there's a big difference in his going to Illinois and Hillary Clinton's going to New York.

He said that she went to New York simply to further her political ambitions, but that he's going to Illinois because he cares. He's going because of his beliefs, etc, etc.

Alan sucks BIG TIME.




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Ducks In A Row Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 05:19 PM
Response to Original message
19. The GOP know they're going to lose
and Keyes is a throwaway candidate. Any of their "real" candidate wouldn't like to have this bad mark on their politcal resumes.
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 05:20 PM
Response to Original message
21. Pass the popcorn.
Can we change the channel?
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Richardo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 05:21 PM
Response to Original message
22. OK: I'm not that big an idiot, but what the hell does it even *mean*?
Edited on Mon Aug-09-04 05:22 PM by Richardo
"Slaveholder's position on abortion". It's like he couldn't go a day without playing an offensive race card, no matter HOW non-sensical.

It's as full of meaning as 'They Hate Us For Our Freedoms'.

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Fovea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #22
55. Technically,
the slaveholders were very pro-childbirth.
They smiled pregnant slave women like a farmer smiles at a new calf.
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Pachamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-04 12:14 AM
Response to Reply #55
82. Youch! Great Definition of Slaveholders position on Abortion....nope,
doesn't sound like Obama's position...more like Keyes' position? Hmmmm... :eyes:
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AspenRose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-04 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #55
105. (Even if the slaveowner did the "impregnating" (rape) himself....
...he wouldn't have aborted it. So the kid would be a little 'lighter.' Still a slave.)

His statement makes absolutely no sense.

Obama is all-heart, all-class.

Keyes is an opportunistic hypocrite.

The fact that Keyes spoke at Bob Jones when they were clearly
1) anti interracial marriage (Keyes is in one) and
2) anti Catholic (he's Catholic too) says a lot.

"Chickens for Colonel Sanders."
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 05:22 PM
Response to Original message
23. I don't recall the Declaration of Independence mentioning abortion
"I would still be picking cotton if the country's moral principles had not been shaped by the Declaration of Independence," Keyes said. He said Obama "has broken and rejected those principles he has taken the slaveholder's position."

It is hard to see how he makes the leap from the Declaration of Independence to abortion. The principles of the Declaration of Independence were hijacked for about a century to support slavery, though.

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SemperEadem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #23
29. he must write his own speeches
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bobbieinok Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #23
34. I watched Keyes speech on abortion in NH in 2000
Although I totally disagreed with him, I found it a masterful speech.....very carefully reasoned step-by-step.

Compelling......if you accept the initial premise---in this case, that abortion is wrong.

Keyes spent a lot of time on this part of the Declaration of Independence

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness....

all men (people) are created equal....so humans can't decide this fetus shall not live

they are endowed ---- with certain unalienable rights----life.....again each individual is given life by God, a human cannot decide that the fetus shall not live

Declaration is a basic American document and by Keyes argumentation places anti-abortion at the heart of American identity.

I wish I had taped this speech; it was a masterful example of a certain type of rhetorical style......each step draws you further into agreement.........as long as you accept the initial premise
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JohnOneillsMemory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #34
39. Called a syllogism: "If A, then B. If B, then C. Therefore, if A, then C."
It is a useful rhetorical device for leading the ignorant who think emotionally astray.

"Bad people threaten us.
Saddam is bad.
Therefore, Saddam threatens us and we can eliminate the US Constition, Congress, the Genevea Conventions, and all rule of law."

Beware people who, unlike *, CAN speak well. They can cause much harm.
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demoman123 Donating Member (565 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #39
68. That is a valid inference form.
It's called hypothetical syllogism. It was one of the principles of Stoic logic, and is accepted by every system of modern logic in the West. The content you gave it was not a valid substitution instance.
Or am I missing a joke here?
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #39
72. I think the one you are thinking of is something like:
A implies B.
A implies C.
Therefore B implies C.

1) Ossama is the enemy of America.
2) Ossama is the friend of Saddam.
3) Therefore, America is the enemy of Saddam.

Even if you stipulate the truth of 1 and 2, 3 does not necessarily follow. eg

1) A dog is a mammal.
2) A dog walks on four legs.
3) Therefore, mammals walk on four legs.

When you parse someone's arguement, and it amounts to this form, you can be pretty sure they are trying to bamboozle you.

I hope I got that right.
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ProfessorGAC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-04 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #72
92. You Can Also Be Sure, That The Person Saying It. . .
. . .is an idiot. Syllogistic thinking is the crutch of a mind incapable of critical thought. Sound like Keyes to you?
The Professor
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lottie244 Donating Member (903 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #34
51. If Christians believe that Christ died to pardon sin, then what doesKeyes
say to women who had an abortion?

If the Bible says that "..whosoever believeth on HIM shall not perish but have everlasting life." What does Keyes say to this. It doesn't say whosoever doesn't have an abortion.
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FredScuttle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #34
66. Keyes is compelling like the dude in the city bus talking to Allah
while complaining about the radio waves being directed at him by the CIA. You are fascinated by the spectacle, but, deep in your heart, you know this guy is fucking insane. Ergo, Keyes.

The tortured dance this maniac is doing to justify his carpetbagging run, especially in light of his criticism of HRC in 2000, is worthy of some kind of prize.


RUN, ALAN, RUN!

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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #34
70. Here is an obvious problem with using the Declaration of Independence
for the abortion debate:

1) The framers held all white men had a right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Most blacks at the time were slaves, and women certainly didn't have complete political liberty regardless of race, so only a small subset of human beings had complete liberty.
2) Since the sex and race of a zygote or fetus could not be known until birth, full person-hood could not be conferred until then. So, according to the framers a fetus or zygote had, at best, some potential rights that could be taken away from them at birth, and would be in over half of all cases.
3) This potential claimant to human rights could make conflicting claims on the rights to liberty and the pursuit of happiness of a full claimant to human rights, though - an adult white male.
4) Presumably, they would have intended the actual rights of a full claimant to supersede the rights of a merely potential claimant, so they would have argued for a (white) man's right to decide on an abortion.

It is of course a silly argument, and only meant to illustrate that using the framer's notions of rights, as they actually practiced them, would not likely lead to the anti-abortion position.

Using the framer's notions as we interpret them now might lead to a different conclusion. Of course it would hinge on how widely the terms "men", "created", etc. were to be interpreted in the phrase "all men were created equal" for instance. Also, I don't think the Declaration of Independence prioritizes rights (life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness), so the usual collisions of rights would come into play.

I grant you that any document can at least seem to support almost any position if it is used by a skillful enough advocate.
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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-04 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #23
103. Actually, the DOI supports the pro-choice viewpoint.
Get government off & out-of women's bodies!

But that is to difficult for the anti-choice - anti-freedom crowd to comprehend.
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MASSAFRA Donating Member (461 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 05:23 PM
Response to Original message
24. Since when
did "slaveholders" believe that their slaves had the right of self determination and the ability to decide what to do with their bodies?
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phasev Donating Member (187 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #24
52. I was just going to say that n/t
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 05:25 PM
Response to Original message
25. Could Keyes be making an obscure reference to Obama's white mother?
Edited on Mon Aug-09-04 05:25 PM by saracat
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TeacherCreature Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #25
63. I think he is calling Obama a slave of the democratic party
Republicans have been trying to convince black people that they are too dumb to know how to vote and are victims of the democrats due to the "soft racism of low expectations."
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SemperEadem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 05:25 PM
Response to Original message
26. That my friends is the face of the Republican Party, 2004
" two-time presidential-bid loser Alan Keyes ripped into Democratic rival Barack Obama, saying his views on abortion are "the slaveholder's position"

yes, but Keyes is a slave to his party's RW- IL state GOP leaders' inability to plan and manage their stable of viable candidates so that "yas'm" didn't have to whore himself and make a liar out of himself to save them from their incompetence.

What a punk.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 05:26 PM
Response to Original message
27. Starting strong, Alan!
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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 05:33 PM
Response to Original message
31. Well, Keyes has taken the House Servant's position
(gotta stay ahead of the Field Hands by sucking up to his Bushveik Masters)
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davsand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 05:40 PM
Response to Original message
33. That last paragraph sums it all up completely.
Edited on Mon Aug-09-04 05:41 PM by davsand
"The race between Keyes and Obama sets up the first U.S. Senate election with two black candidates representing the major parties and all but assures Illinois will produce only the fifth black U.S. Senator in history."

They could have continued with Congratulations, Sen. Obama.

This race may well be a huge test of Obama's ability NOT to laugh in the face of absurdity. I can't SEE Obama ever going negative in any race--but I CAN see his staffers laughing themselves into a stupor over just how much of a wing-nut Keyes really is.

Somebody pass me the popcorn and the cotton candy. The circus is NOW in town.


Laura
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stegosaurus Donating Member (16 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #33
40. hmmm...
Maybe I'm reading too much into Keyes' comment, but is it a veiled reference to the fact that Obama, while being African-American, is not a descendant of American slaves, as most African-Americans are? In other words, is Keyes insinuating that Obama "isn't black enough"?

I wouldn't put it past Keyes to make a depraved comment like that.

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Tight_rope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #40
62. Welcome to DU stegosaurus!....
"In other words, is Keyes insinuating that Obama "isn't black enough"?

I don't know! How black do you have to be to be "African-American"? (cocoa, mahagoney, chocolate, milk chocolate, white chocolate, bronze, beige, nutmeg, hazelnut, caramel, honey)....
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AspenRose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-04 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #62
106. For years, "one drop" was all you needed.
Even if you were a blue eyed blonde (like my grandmother).

"French Vanilla, Butter Pecan, Chocolate Deluxe...even caramel sundaes is gettin' touched," to quote Method Man.

(Now I want some ice cream!)
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Susang Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #33
42. Just be careful not to step in the elephant shit
Edited on Mon Aug-09-04 06:01 PM by Susang
There's going to be quite a lot of it strewn around before this is over. ;-)

Personally, I want to know exactly what the GOP is giving Keyes to do this. I'm not a conspiracy theorist by any stretch of the imagination, but this whole thing has me very suspicious. I'm almost certain there's an agenda here (along with a quid pro quo for Keyes), but I just can't figure out the angle yet. :shrug:

on edit: I just read on Salon that Keyes still owes about half a mil in debts for his recent bid for the presidency. Those must be paid before he can run apparently. I think I may have found my answer.
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justjones Donating Member (596 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 05:48 PM
Response to Original message
35. Um, wouldn't the slaveholder's position be to force a female slave...
to have a baby against her will? :shrug:

So it's Keyes who is taking the slaveholder's "position." :eyes:
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Democat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. Keyes wants women to be slaves to men and to the government
Edited on Mon Aug-09-04 05:51 PM by Democat
What is he talking about? He is supporting taking away free choice from a woman. Slaves weren't free, he doesn't want women to be free.
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tlcandie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #35
41. I was just getting ready to post that evidently Keyes forgets the
Edited on Mon Aug-09-04 05:55 PM by tlcandie
roots/history of slavery. My memory seems to tell me that white masters would severely punish/kill slaves who tried to abort or kill their children.

Besides the kinky sex/rape crap of the plantation owners, they wanted them to stay pregnant all the time; therefore, producing more children which would in turn rake in more money for the plantation owners.

I totally agree justjones and someone needs to correct this very ill-informed man!


EDIT: And then again, I could be very wrong. I'm sure they didn't want the women to be NOT producing, yet more babies meant more income.
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justjones Donating Member (596 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #41
44. Exactly! You are right. More babies, more workers, more income.
Your memory serves you correctly :). And if my memory serves me correctly, there were a number of natural methods slaves employed to try to keep from getting pregnant or to abort their babies because they didn't want their children born into slavery.

And regarding the abortion issue, if Keyes wants to play the race card to his advantage, he is on the wrong side of the issue. Keeping abortion legal is especially important for women of color for a number of reasons, poverty being one of them.

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tlcandie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #44
61. Isn't it interesting that in many of the older movies you see young
white women pregnant not wanting the baby and their boyfriend takes them to "someone" who can help them. That someone ends up being an old black woman wise beyond her years in nothing but a shack who gives them some directions and herbs of some sort.

VERY interesting.
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TexasBushwhacker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #41
54. Not only did they want their slaves to have children
once the child was old enough to do some kind of work, if the owner didn't have work for the child to do, they felt free to sell them to another family. It's incredible that Keyes would equate legal abortion with the "slaveholder's position".
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allalone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #35
48. very good point
this guy sounds like a nut case. oh yeah, repubs like nut cases.
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wicket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 05:50 PM
Response to Original message
36. That is DISGUSTING
1 day in the race and he is already race-baiting. REPULSIVE. :grr:
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DoveTurnedHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 05:56 PM
Response to Original message
43. Disgusting But Hilarious
Disgusting for the obvious reasons, but hilarious because it is going to be SO DAMN SATISFYING to watch Keyes self-destruct over the next few months, and take the Illinois GOP with him, to boot. :-)

DTH
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gatlingforme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #43
50. LOL, I can't wait for a debate, he's right up there with Coulter
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Tight_rope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #43
56. I could not agree "MORE....Keyes will "SELF-DESTRUCT"!
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AlFrankenFan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 06:08 PM
Response to Original message
45. *spits out drink*
It especially makes your statement credible when you, a resident of Maryland running for an Illinois senate seat, have spoken out against running for a state of non residence. One hypocritical statement ruins your credibility in my book.
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allalone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #45
49. one lie in court
and the jury doesn't have to consider any of your testimony as true.
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Tight_rope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #45
59. So the GOP had to import this asshole from Maryland...The Stupidity
just keeps growing for the GOP...Keyes has no creditablity with the locals...No one with believe anything he says or trust him for that matter (especially being a "BLACK REPUBLICAN").
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Bogus W Potus Donating Member (281 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 06:09 PM
Response to Original message
46. I think he has it ass-backwards, once again.
Edited on Mon Aug-09-04 06:10 PM by Bogus W Potus
Forcing a woman to bear a child against her will makes the WOMAN the SLAVE, not the fetus/child/whatever you want to call it/him/her.

I don't even know where Keyes comes up with this shit...

If Keyes wants to take the "anti-slaveholder" position, then he should be pro-choice. Because if you insist that a woman has no control over her own body, then she is in fact a slave.
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 06:09 PM
Response to Original message
47. Projection, thy name is Republican...
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janx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 07:46 PM
Response to Original message
53. Off to a predictable start, I see... n/t
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 08:45 PM
Response to Original message
57. He's polling at 28% to Obama's 67%, but there is a correction expected
Edited on Mon Aug-09-04 08:46 PM by Walt Starr
That poll was taken on Friday and Saturday, well before Keyes started opening his mouth.

We expect the upper teens within a couple of weeks.

The REAL beauty of this thing is that he's turning off moderate Republicans who see Bush has no chance in Illinois, so they may stay home. This could play into some upsets for House Seats currently held by Republicans.
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The Zanti Regent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #57
75. Please let Keyes drag down the FOUR WHORSEMEN!
I would love to see Keyes be such a dead weight that he takes down Hastert, Hyde La Hood and Crane!
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fujiyama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 08:47 PM
Response to Original message
58. What a freaky deaky
nut case. I guess he got his MSNBC show cancelled a while back, so he needed his name on TV again.

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Liberal_Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 08:54 PM
Response to Original message
60. Obama Will Get At Least 70% Of The Vote
I don't think Keyes will get a majority of the moderate Republican vote.
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farmbo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 09:27 PM
Response to Original message
65. This guy will go over like a turd in the punchbowl to normal Illini...
Mean spirited, self-righteous, censorius...and intellectually dishonest to boot.
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truthisfreedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 09:34 PM
Response to Original message
67. hypocrite! look at this!
http://americablog.blogspot.com/archives/2004_08_08_ame...

"I deeply resent the destruction of federalism represented by Hillary Clinton's willingness to go into a state she doesn't even live in and pretend to represent the people there," Keyes said. "So I certainly wouldn't imitate it." - Alan Keyes, FOX News, March 2000.
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Sterling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 09:53 PM
Response to Original message
69. I would have said the same thing about almost every position
Keye's has.
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scarface2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 10:58 PM
Response to Original message
71. keyes is insaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaane!!!
bring it on you stupid emm effer!!!
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enigmatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 11:04 PM
Response to Original message
73. I see Keyes...
Has wasted no time going into the gutter and flinging mud...
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Citizen Daryl Donating Member (693 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 11:14 PM
Response to Original message
74. Keys has taken the 'slaveholders position' on politics. n/t
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 11:22 PM
Response to Original message
77. That is all Keyes is good for ......ATTACK!
He is nothing but an attack dog. The good in me makes it hard not to hate this man! :mad:
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w13rd0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #77
78. That's his purpose...
...the GOP is running him to fling some mud on a "rising star in the Democratic party". If in the process, some black man makes a fool of himself, the GOP sure as shit doesn't care. Connect the dots.
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Pachamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-04 12:30 AM
Response to Reply #78
83. Yep - that's why they chose Keyes - he's what's called a dirty bomb...
and he and everything it destroys is just collateral damage...
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Dem2theMax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-04 11:59 PM
Response to Original message
79. I had a good laugh at this part -
In the same interview, he defended his belief that gay marriage is wrong, brushing aside a suggestion from an interviewer that sexual preference might be biologically determined.

"We as human beings cannot assert that our sexual desires cannot be controlled," Keyes said. He said such a claim would "consign us to the real of instinctual animal nature and we are not there."

And of course the only reason Keyes is there to begin with is because:

Keyes, who is from Maryland and lost two Senate races in that state, on Sunday accepted the GOP nomination to replace primary winner Jack Ryan, who dropped out of the race in June over embarrassing sex allegations.

Hmmm, 'cannot assert that our sexual desires cannot be controlled'
I think he should have a long talk with Jack Ryan. :evilgrin:

I feel for Alan Keyes. Yep, sure do. He's so full of crap, he just helped me decide to send Obama some $$$ for his campaign.
Thanks Alan!
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WLKjr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-04 12:07 AM
Response to Original message
80. HEY ALAN KEYES> GO BLOW IT OUT YOUR ASSSSSSSS
Why are you a "yes masa sir" man? That is the way you are in the repbulican party. Wake up Alan, people are being told what to do with their own bodies, much like your ancestors were told to go bail cotton.



P.S.

(I mean no offense by the wording of my post, but it was what I felt at the moment I typed it becuase Alan has become a mindless shit head)

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skrunch Donating Member (939 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-04 12:11 AM
Response to Original message
81. Hey Ed Gillespie...
Since Barack Obama was keynoter at the DNC, you should give a homie a break and have Uncle Al Keyes set the tone for your little shindig up in the Apple. Ya Dig?
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angka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-04 12:33 AM
Response to Original message
84. this is the part where they self destruct.
nt
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-04 12:48 AM
Response to Original message
85. Keyes is not the first person to draw a parallel between

abortion and slavery. When slavery was legal, a slave was considered to be less than human, with the owner being able to treat his property, the slave, as he chose.

Since abortion was legalized in the US, an unborn baby is considered less than human, with the "owner" being being able to treat her property, the baby, as she chooses.

Slaveowners, of course, rarely killed their slaves.
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Crowdance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-04 06:55 AM
Response to Reply #85
89. Not the first, just the worst n/t
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Classical_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-04 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #85
94. I don't believe it is a baby from conception
so sue me. It is human and alive but so is sperm. I don't believe sperm has the same right as me either. I don't share the churches attachment to sperms not being stopped by rubbers either.

Abortions happened before Roe vs Wade,and resulted in the deaths of women.

I have heard that 60% of the women who have them are unemployed. Let's care about the state the mother is in if we really don't want her to have an abortion.

Let's also encourage her to use birth control, so she doesn't get pregnant in the first place.
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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-04 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #85
104. Problem is, we refuse your hypothisis - it's CELLS - not a "baby".
Women can control their own bodies.
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auburngrad82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-04 05:58 AM
Response to Original message
86. Keyes on NPR
Keyes said two things in an NPR interview yesterday that I thought were hilarious. First, when asked if he thought race would play a part in the election he said no, that by having two African Americans running against each other that the racists would stay at home. His "slaveowner" comment shows how race plays into it for him.

Next, when asked if he thought he was selected because he was black he said no, he was asked to run by the people of Illinois because he was the best person for the job. Someone should remind him that he's the 20th best person for the job behind all the people that turned down the position.
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Citizen Daryl Donating Member (693 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-04 06:05 AM
Response to Reply #86
87. They couldn't get MIKE DITKA, so they got YOU, Keyes.
Stuff that in your self-confidence pipe and smoke it.
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bleedingheart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-04 06:49 AM
Response to Original message
88. Actually the slaveholders would have wanted more slaves
so why would they have been for abortion?
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EST Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-04 07:48 AM
Response to Original message
90. Perhaps we should try to figure out
why, other than sheer incompetence, they would pick a man whose only accomplishments have been to suck up money and lose. There has to be some sort of rationale here... Or am I giving them too much credit? Is this really the sort of people anyone would want running the country? As a resident of Illinois, I am outraged.
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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-04 07:53 AM
Response to Original message
91. This will just be one cheap pointless shot after another.
It only makes Obama stronger. Republicans are so stupid!
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barb162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-04 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #91
108. obama has to respond
tell me how Bush won 4 years ago. Through lies, cheap attacks, below the belt comments by GOP henchmen, more lies....
Gore kept trying to take the high road. The GOP is using the same tactics they used 4 years ago.
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goodboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-04 09:26 AM
Response to Original message
93. as long as he keeps this up, we'll be fine:) (nt)
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Cicero Donating Member (412 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-04 09:36 AM
Response to Original message
95. Jeeze
I understand there is a Libertarian in the race. Are there any other candidates? At the rate Keyes is going, he'll end up in a race for THIRD place.

Later,
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SemperEadem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-04 03:54 PM
Response to Original message
97. what a laugh
the RW is against abortions until they're the cause of one.
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chelsea0011 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-04 04:00 PM
Response to Original message
98. Keyes=One Note Candidate(or carpetbagger as repukes like)
Abortion is his only true reason for anything. And when he gets on a role, does anyone understand anything this clown is saying? I'd love for the media to research his take on American History and try to explain what he is talking about. I never understand him.
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KamaAina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-04 04:50 PM
Response to Original message
100. Keyes' brand-new Illinois address: Calumet City
He's on a mission from God! :-)

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=683&nci...

Under federal law, Keyes has until Election Day to establish Illinois residency. Monday afternoon, the State Board of Elections officially listed Keyes as the GOP candidate, and his campaign said Calumet City, in Chicago's southern suburbs, is his new Illinois home.
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Politicub Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-04 04:53 PM
Response to Original message
101. And he's a mainstream republican
Ugh -- I'm sorry IL that you will have to listen to him blabber on until the election.

We need to tell the world about this mainstream republican's comments. Some on more conservative sites are saying he's one of the best the GOP has to offer. I shudder to think who may be the worst!

:scared:

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arwalden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-04 06:37 PM
Response to Original message
102. Keyes Is About As Disgusting As A Soggy Tampon
THERE! I said it and I don't care what you think.

-- Allen
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primavera Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-04 08:29 PM
Response to Original message
107. Check out his interview on NPR for laughs
http://www.npr.org/features/feature.php?wfId=3841747

He made at least three 180 degree reversals on himself within a three minute interview, he sounded like a raving loon. Frankly, I'm not too worried about Keyes, I can't imagine anyone's going to be taken in by his mixture of extreme chaos and hatred.
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