Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Boat slams into U.S. carrier in Persian Gulf

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Latest Breaking News Donate to DU
 
Rose Siding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-04 12:19 PM
Original message
Boat slams into U.S. carrier in Persian Gulf
WASHINGTON -- The Navy is investigating how a small wooden boat was able to approach and ram into an aircraft carrier in the Persian Gulf last month, military officials said.

The collision appears to be accidental, Navy official says, but has renewed fears of suicide attacks against U.S. warships. Nearly four years ago, a deadly terrorist strike against a Navy destroyer in Yemen led to significant changes in the way the service deals with civilian craft.

On the night of July 22, a dhow smashed into the starboard hull of the USS John F. Kennedy and sank. No survivors from the traditional Arab sailing boat were found. The dhow's origin, cargo and destination are unknown.

http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-ship06.html
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-04 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
1. Nothing was found? So how do we know this happened?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cthrumatrix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-04 12:23 PM
Response to Original message
2. raise the alert -- code red (let's see wood meets steel --steel wins)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JohnDoe1 Donating Member (64 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-04 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #2
11. Nah
You must have missed Conan. It's now Baboon's Ass Red.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
catzies Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-04 12:24 PM
Response to Original message
3. Deja vu all over again? NRP revisitied Gulf of Tonkin incident this AM
and for those of us not old enough to remember the original this sounds eerily similar. :shrug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-04 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Yes, it does.
I'm thinking the crew screwed up, damaged some fighters, and needed a story to cover their asses. And, hey, when that story serves the administration, everyone's going to buy it!

Ugh.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AdrianInOcala Donating Member (859 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-04 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
4. Damn, the rethugs gott be hating the fact that Clinton
is no longer president. The Cole was 'his fault' and now they could have blamed an 'attack' on a carrier by 'insurgents' on him too. At least, that's the way they would spin it.....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Demonaut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-04 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
5. hitting a carrier is like hitting the coastline, too damn big to miss
"that was some bad pilot"
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BrotherBuzz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-04 12:29 PM
Response to Original message
7. A little wooden dhow slams into aircraft carrier?
Isn't this is kinda like punching your opponent's fist with your face?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-04 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. If The Cargo Were A Half Ton Of C-4, Sir
The resultant headlines would be very interesting.

This is a quite feasible means of attack: these little things are low to the water and do not show up well on radars, nor necessarily draw crwmen's eyes on dark nights....

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
amandabeech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-04 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. My thoughts exactly. Perhaps this was a dry run.
If it wasn't, I'm sure some people have taken notice.

In the Falklands/Malvinas war, the Argentines shot exocet missiles at British ships which carried a very substantial amount of aluminum in their superstructures. The exocets set the aluminum on fire.

I wonder if there are missiles which could be shot from a dhow or dhows that could disable a ship by piercing the hull at the water line or setting fires above.

The "al Quaeda" individual arrested earlier today in London had detailed plans for U.S. Navy ships in the Persian Gulf. Might there be a link?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-04 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. That Is My Feeling Too, Ma'am
Even if it was not a practice run, but a real accident, it must serve as a pointer to the al Queda militants of what coulod be made to happen. In the run-up to the invasion of Iraq, you may recall, there was a war-game staged in which the U.S. general charged with directing the Iraqi side in the simulation managed to cripple the U.S. fleet off-shore by use of boats such as this, sporting portable missiles and demolition charges. The games were disregarded as anomalous, and of course, no such tactics were employed by Iraq in the event. But the possibility remains, and seems very feasible to me. It sounds odd, but it is easier to sneak up on a sizeable group than on a lone individual; in the group, everyone thinks someone else will see the intruder....

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
amandabeech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-04 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. Yes, I do remember that , Sir, now that you remind me.
Edited on Fri Aug-06-04 02:29 PM by amandabeech
Wasn't the war game stopped and restarted so that the officers commanding the fleet did not have to figure out how to counter-act the small boat attack? Perhaps the officer commanding the small boats was ridiculed or something to that effect?

It sounds as though the Navy might want to revisit that war-game and come up with a plan of dealing with unconventional attacks.

Whoever came up with the small boat strategy should be rewarded for his or her creativity.

On edit: Wouldn't sailing ships, like dhows, be very quiet? And perhaps they don't carry running lights, and would they have a very low heat signature? It seems that at night they might be difficult to detect by sailors standing watch on deck.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BrotherBuzz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-04 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #9
18. Your're correct...
small wooden boats doesn't produce a strong radar profile. The news headline leads one to believe the boat intended to attacked the aircraft carrier; an interesting perspective that might not be agreed upon by everyone. Navy security failed, but we'll never know the truth as to how the two collided, or how they even got close. The only thing that is certain is that more Iraqi lives were lost. I submit the local boaters were innocent unless evidence proves otherwise.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-04 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Quite Likely They Were, Sir
Edited on Fri Aug-06-04 02:33 PM by The Magistrate
Those are busy sea lanes, and there are thousands of these little traditional craft plying them with their few tonnes of burden. But this does remain a very promising line of attack against U.S. naval operations, and any success along those lines would have a temendous effect on the nation's mood....

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
haele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-04 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
8. I've seen similar almost happen several times in San Diego Bay
when the big Navy ships come into port.
Little and/or long and low boats that depend on sails and oars can't manouver that well - and neither can aircraft carriers.

I think it was a matter of not enough light out or too much overcast (is it still sandstorm season in the gulf?) for the dhow to see the carrier clearly, and the dhow being too small for the navigation radar to pick it up. By the time the dhow could see the carrier and the watches (if out) could see the dhow, it was probably too late to get out of the way.


Haele
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rkc3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-04 01:09 PM
Response to Original message
10. How is it no one thought to warn (via gunfire) the approaching dhow?
My geography isn't that good, but I thought we were in a war some where near there?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-04 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. It Probably Went Unseen, Sir
Edited on Fri Aug-06-04 01:24 PM by The Magistrate
Such an extensive picket surrounds a carrier on operations, its own sentries are liable to grow lax and innattentive, thinking somebody else would surely have spotted any intrusion long before it fetched up near their own vessel's sides....

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bpilgrim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-04 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. heres a nice pic of a carrier battle group...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NewYorkerfromMass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-04 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Good Gosh there is no way it should have gotten that close
Commander Kerry is needed ASAP!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-04 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. Yes. We'd actually know that this really happened, if he was Commander.
As things are, we can't assume that this is anything more than another propaganda piece.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mulethree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-04 04:00 PM
Response to Original message
21. umm they mean - aircraft carrier runs over sailboat
Wooden sailing boat, minding its own business one night, making perhaps 5 knots tops. Wheel-man is catnapping, checking the wind and compass every hour or so.

Along comes a huge aircraft carrier, moving fast enough that it knocked it's jets around when it turned to avoid the collision, 10 - 20 knots.

small wooden boat = poor mans stealth torpedo. Now we'll have to pay another $2 billion to develop and deploy some new radar/sonar thingy to detect wooden boats and non-metallic mines.

They'll actually spend $10 Million to make a DSP program to scan for persistent echos in the surface/surf/wave signals that they currently filter out as noise. Pay another $190 million to the defense contractor and the other $1.8 billion will disappear and end up arming some third world 'freedom fighters'.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-06-04 04:32 PM
Response to Original message
22. I still say canoes and flaming arrows present a danger
I think the Pentagon needs a multi-billion dollar anti-canoe defense.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-07-04 10:09 AM
Response to Original message
23. Any confirmation that this actually happened from anyone else...?
Besides the US military?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Sat Jul 26th 2014, 06:45 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Latest Breaking News Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC