Saudi Crown Prince's Wife Defends Veil

[Khephra]

DUBAI, United Arab Emirates -- The wife of Saudi Arabia's crown prince defended wearing the veil, compulsory for women in the kingdom, saying in a rare interview published Tuesday that women are happy with the traditional garb.

Princess Hasah al-Shalaan praised her husband, Crown Prince Abdullah, for supporting women and their rights in the conservative kingdom.

"He doesn't distinguish (between his sons and daughters), and always says that a woman has her rights, given to her by God and Islam, so why should we take them away from her," she said in the interview with the Arab daily al-Hayat.

She also defended the wearing of the veil, saying, "I ask God to maintain the blessing (of the veil). This modest, conservative dress makes people equal and is a symbol of our religion."

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/world/wire/sns-ap-saudi-princess-women,0,6625370.story?coll=sns-ap-world-headlines

[Caution]

1. i suppose leaving it up to the individual's choice

would be totally out of the question. ughhh how can anyone defend this being compulsory?

[jjmalonejr]

3. No kidding.

No one's talking about BANNING the veil. The idea is promoting freedom of choice.

[Khephra]

6. Don't you just love that having one sex wear the veil makes people

"equal" all of a sudden? Hell, if that's the case then shouldn't both men and women have to wear them?

Oh wait, I'm talking logic; she's talking conservative religion. My bad.

[thinkingwoman]

2. women wearing veils makes people equal?

Hmmmmm, that's some interesting logic there.

[Ripley]

4. No, it would make people equal if ...

Men were forced to wear a veil too you dumbass.

I don't know anything about Islam, but is a veil over a woman's face really a symbol of that religion? And they clearly have changed aspects of their culture over the years, why is it that the restrictions on women are the last to go?

[CarolynEC]

5. If she said otherwise...

... they might very well stone her to death. Or at least find ways to make her life pretty damned uncomfortable.

Think of a hostage with a gun to his head, speaking into the video camera...

[Khephra]

7. Very true that

And very sad too.

[saigon68]

8. dragged " kicking and screaming" INTO 9TH CENTURY

yikes

[Ediacara]

9. I heard a story about the origin of the veil...

Which is recounted on this website:

The Bibi Khanum ("The Old Queen") mosque, was reputedly named after Timur's favorite wife, Saray Mulk Khanum, the daughter of the puppet Chagatay khan that Timur and Husayn had installed in 1364 in order to legitimize their conquest of Transoxiana. It is properly called the Masjid-i Jami' (congregational mosque), but has come to be known by the name of Timur's wife. Timur built it with loot that he had brought back from India and reputedly used 95 Indian elephants to haul construction materials from the quarries: it was begun in 1398-1399 28 and, when completed, was "one of the most colossal monuments ever built in the Islamic world." Apparently, as with the Gur-i Amir, Timur ordered part of it reconstructed in 1404-1405, but it is unclear exactly what was rebuilt and why. Clavijo tells us that, since the Amir was in ill health at the time, "it was therefore in his litter that every morning he had himself brought to the place, and he would stay there the best part of the day urging on the work." 30 Opposite the entrance, a madrasah and mausoleum, now mostly in ruins, were erected by the queen herself. The Masjid-i Shah in Isfahan, Iran, as well as some Moghul mosques in India, seems to have copied its basic form.

There is an interesting legend that has grown up surrounding the construction of the mosque. Apparently, while Timur was away conquering India, the architect who was in charge of the project fell in love with the queen after whom the mosque is named. Bibi Khanum, in an attempt to dissuade the young man, brought 40 painted eggs to him, explaining that, just as all the eggs tasted the same, so it was with women. She would provide him with a beautiful maiden so that he could finish construction of the mosque, now delayed as a result of his infatuation with the queen. A week later, he brought her 40 gourds, 39 filled with water and one filled with wine, and said, "Oh Bibi Khanum, although they may all look alike only one can intoxicate me." She agreed to allow him to kiss her, with her hand separating his lips and her cheek. His passionate response penetrated through her hand to leave an indelible imprint on her cheek <I'm assuming this is a flowery way to say "a hickie"> which the Amir was none too pleased to see when he returned. "Seeing the imprint of the lips upon his wife's cheek, he sent his elephant brigade into the great mosque and wreaked the damage that can still be seen today. His captains chased the architect to the top of a minaret, where he grew wings and flew off <to Mecca in a version I've read>, never to be seen again. And Tamerlane decreed that in future all women should wear a veil <to fend off rape I guess....>, hence the origin of the Mohammedan custom of enshrouding their womenfolk."

This, btw, is the Bibi Khanum Mosque in Samarkand, which is, without a doubt, one of the most beautiful buildings in the world:

[Ripley]

10. So the delusional jealousies of the Amir caused this?

Yeah, he saw the imprint of the lips on her cheek. :eyes: Why do some men's insecurities cause them to harm everyone else but themselves?

Thanks for the history Dinoboy.

[Ediacara]

12. Keep in mind too, this was just ONE of Timur's wives....

The deeper implications of course are that Timur's wife was HIS property and that no other man even had the right to look at her.

I am not sure if this is the "official" explanation, but I have a feeling it may be one of many. Honestly I think the "real" explanation goes down to the fact that women were viewed as nothing more than property....

[Ripley]

15. That really is a beautiful building.

You're right. Women as men's property is the bottom line. And it seems to be pretty consistent in every organized religion on this planet.

Of course they would tell you it is for the "protection" of the woman. She is of such high virtue she is shielded like a rare jewel or some such nonsense. Just like the Republicans and their wives who "submit themselves" to them.

As I said, it seems that an awful lot of men sure are insecure.

[Heddi]

13. I heard that women have to wear the veil because

...and this is coming from a friend (female) of mine who is in the AF and spent alot of time in the middle east ---

She said that women were forced to wear the veil because the mouth of a female so resembles the vagina (or vulva to be more exact) that the mere sight of the mouth of a woman is blasphemous or adulterous or some such nonsense. And that women had to cover everything on their face except for their eyes because of the inherent sexuality of their faces.

Whether this is true or not, I don't know. I really like your story more than the one my friend told me. But then again, I love beautiful stories ripe with imagery (His captains chased the architect to the top of a minaret, where he grew wings and flew off <to Mecca in a version I've read>, never to be seen again)

[Kagemusha]

14. T.. TAMERLANE!?

You mean "Proctor John," pyramid of skulls guy, Mongol conqueror!?

Good lord...

[Ediacara]

17. Same guy

Aparently Tamerlane is an English bastardization of the English phrase, "Timur the lame." But ya, same guy, conquered most of central Asia trying to take control of the Silk Road, had his capitol in Samarkand, and was a complete butcher.....

[maxsolomon]

16. the more i learn about islam

the less i like it.

the misogyny is appaling.

[yardwork]

22. This isn't Islam so much as fundamentalism

Any religion can be corrupted and twisted and used for power. It has happened with Christianity and still does in some denominations. People will find excuses for their bad behavior, and the sacred text of their culture is always a good place to look.

[Xithras]

26. But it is Islam

The veil is one of the symbols of Islam, just as the cross is one of the symbols of Christianity (think about that, one symbol is a tool of oppression, while the other is a tool of execution). Neither symbol is prescribed by the holy books fundamental to the religion, but you'll have as much luck stripping the veil from Islam as you'll have stripping the cross from the Christians. At this point, it's simply a part of their religion.

[JerseygirlCT]

35. Islam as practiced in Saudi Arabia really is like a way-out-there

fundamentalist Christian sect here -- except they run the place.

It's a perversion of true Islam, which actually gives women a fair amount of rights -- almost unheard of at the time it was written.

Unfortunately, the Saudis have been actively exporting this crap around the middle east and south asia for a long time now. Moderate Islam gets lost in the sound and fury of this nasty sect.

[DrWeird]

29. This is just a legend.

It's an interesting story, nothing more.

The use of veils in Muslim society likely comes from the Old Testament, which clearly commands Jewish, Christian, and Muslim women to wear veils in public.

[CarolynEC]

25. All it needs is a Viagra sponsorship...

... maybe a "Welcome to Viagra Stadium" banner right over the mosque entrance... and it will all make perfect sense to me.

[Bandit]

11. I seem to recall a story not so long ago of young girls burnt to death at

their school because they weren't let out when it was on fire because they were not dressed to be in public. I'm sure their God would have been proud of those that denied them their lives.

[Tsiyu]

18. Saudi Women Cannot Drive, either

There was a big brouhaha over a Saudi gal "ALLAH FORBID!!!!"- driving after one of the terror attacks in that country. The brave little woman decided to take matters into her own hands and drive some wounded people to the hospital to save their lives even though for a female driving is forbidden. She was crucified by the Saudi media. The Saudi interpretation of the Koran appears to favor senseless death over common sense. (Kind of like the fundie interpretation of their scripture).
This was a big story on arabnews.com a while back.

We also had a situation where some Saudis refused to land their planes on a runway whose air traffic controllers had women working among them. Seems it was in Texas somewhere. Saudi men are arrogant fruitcakes, in my opinion. I say give em each a sex change....I bet the "rules" would quickly change as well.

[LibertyLover]

19. Veiling in Moslem Culture

Interestingly enough the ancient Assyrians veiled their free born women. According to the law codes if a slave was found wearing a veil (and thereby claiming to be free) she incurred the death penalty. My history profs at university always claimed that the Islamic world picked up on that concept and so required veiling for women. There is a fascinating book entitled, if I remember correctly, 9 Parts of Desire which examines the history of women in Islam. Originally Allah only required the wives of the prophet Mohammad to be veiled (this revelation came to Mohammad one night after a couple of the wives were bickering). After his death, the 2nd or 3rd caliph, who was a misogynist, extended the ruling to all Islamic women.

[fudge stripe cookays]

20. Read this book to find out more:

Nine Parts of Desire: The Hidden World of Islamic Women
by Geraldine Brooks

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0385475772/qid=1091568506/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/002-5584801-7298458?v=glance&s=books&n=507846


I heard about it on NPR about 7 or 8 years ago, and it was one of the most fascinating, infuriating books I've ever read.

The hair is considered one of a woman's most sexual physical traits. If a women turns a man on, it's considered her fault, not the guys. This is the way Muslims are taught, according to the book.

[Democat]

21. She doesn't speak for all of the women in the kingdom!

She just helps enforce her family's policies on all of them, whether they like it or not.

[TahitiNut]

23. Besides, it hides cuts and bruises from the beatings by their husbands...

... brothers, and fathers.

:eyes: :eyes:

[leftchick]

24. his "wife"?? does he not have several??

or am I mistaken?

[Crazy8s]

27. My sis in law is married to a saudi and lives there

so I have some knowledge of saudi lifestyle. Yes, saudis can take up to four wives, but they seldom do. For one thing, the cost would be prohibitive. Each wife has her own home, and these homes are not small.

My sil's house is three stories (four if you count the basement bedroom and pool floor) with gardens on the rooftop. There are separate bathrooms, living rooms and dining rooms for men and women (the sexes do not mingle during group get-togethers), as well as a western style living room and dining room furnished western style. The kitchen is huge with commercial style appliances, and there is a live in maid.

Saudi women do not have the rights and privilages that we do, but they are used to their culture and feel cherished and protected. In fact, they find some elements of our lifestyle apalling. They drip with gold and wear bright and garish colors beneath their black public robes. I have never seen my sil wearing a veil, tho she does cover her hair in public. At home and with family, saudi women wear neither the black robes or the hair covering.

While the man is traditionally in charge in the relationship, spouse abuse is not the norm, and (at least in my sil's case) the wife's opinions and feelings are taken into account. Family is very important and matriarchs are revered and well taken care of by their sons.

It is a different culture with different rules, but as in all cultures, people raise families, share love and strive for happiness.

If you'd like to know more, I'd be happy to fill you in.

:)

[Habibi]

31. Your SIL sounds like she lives a privileged life

I don't imagine that's true of most Saudi women, and privilege would tend to ameliorate the sting of their restrictions. And, while there are probably lots of women who feel "cherished and protected," there are also women who feel oppressed and burdened by the limitations put on them by the male-dominated culture. Don't think for a minute that "dripping gold" is any substitute for full participation in your nation's present and future.

[DrWeird]

28. What about breasts?

In several societies, it is custom for women to cover their breasts in public. In fact, in some countries the patriarchy has outlawed the right for women to expose their breasts, and in some cases it can result in criminal punishment.

What a backwards, senseless, misogynistic society.

[Habibi]

32. You are correct, sir!

[bleedingheart]

30. Her husband must be blind as a bat...his daughers look like Darth Vader

while his sons actually can be recongnized...

I recall a friend who was stationed in Saudi Arabia who said that all the women looked like Darth Vader cloaked in their outfits...

[Mighty Undecided]

33. Is this the one who finances terrorists?

I mean, Clarence Tomas also defends racism, what's the point of this?

[JerseygirlCT]

34. "Makes people equal"

This infuriates me. Women are to cover themselves in hefty bags and veils in order to make it possible for the men to behave like civilized human beings. And if they can't behave, it's the womens' fault, of course. It's nauseating that so many women continue to buy into this crap.

These men refuse to own their own behavior, and so have structured an entire society, heck an entire religious sect, to change the world to suit their needs. They're vile.