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rawstory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 11:53 PM
Original message
2,000 U.S. troops killed in Iraq: Russian expert
Edited on Sun Jul-25-04 11:53 PM by rawstory
Another good find from http://rawstory.com

2,000 U.S. troops killed in Iraq: Russian expert

By Vladimir Radyuhin

The United States suffers far heavier casualties in Iraq than it officially admits, a Russia military diplomat claimed.

The actual U.S. military losses in Iraq may have reached 2,000 personnel, more than twice the official figure of 900, as Washington badly understates its casualty statistics, a military diplomatic source told the Itar-Tass news agency.

"Official statistics do not include casualties among non-U.S. nationals who sign up to serve in the American armed forces in order to get a U.S. `green card.' According to reliable information the share of non-Americans in the U.S. force in Iraq may be as high as 60 per cent," the source said. "The real number of U.S. losses may be as high as 2,000 casualties and up to 12,000 wounded," the military diplomat said.

http://www.hindu.com/2004/07/24/stories/200407240240140...
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Massacure Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 11:56 PM
Response to Original message
1. 60% non-citizens? That seems really high.
Is it just me?
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Norquist Nemesis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 11:56 PM
Response to Original message
2. Can anyone confirm this?
That only 'US citizens' (native or naturalized) are counted in the reported numbers?
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tritsofme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 11:58 PM
Response to Original message
3. Ridiculous
Edited on Sun Jul-25-04 11:59 PM by tritsofme
Do you expect me to believe that a minority of soldiers have constituted over half of the deaths in Iraq, and coincidently none of it is being reported?

Sometimes you just need to use your head.
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cosmicaug Donating Member (676 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 11:59 PM
Response to Original message
4. No way!
No way!

Quoting:
According to reliable information the share of non-Americans in the U.S. force in Iraq may be as high as 60 per cent," the source said.
And just who or what is this "reliable source"?
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found object Donating Member (271 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-26-04 12:28 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. Chile
discussed here a while back.
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rawstory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-26-04 12:04 AM
Response to Original message
5. Haha. hmm...that's fishy.
didn't quite catch what y'all are saying until I reread it. Though I know the U.S. IS underreporting; I saw that 1,000 stat a LONG time before they said they hit 1,000.
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2Design Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-26-04 12:10 AM
Response to Original message
6. we have a large number of people who sign up for service from
other countries to get citizenship....it was on the local news months ago... I was surprised.... lots of guys shipping out from here in norfolk were from other countries...

I think there were stories about it for july 4 ....probably can search on that....

I didn't realize they wouldn't count those numbers. If they die before they become a citizen, then they might not count the....interesting factoid....
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rawstory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-26-04 12:12 AM
Response to Original message
7. DoD casualty counter
http://icasualties.org/oif/BY_DOD.aspx

Can't find anything about whether deaths are only 'counted' if they are U.S., but it seems likely -- only that 60 percent stat seems high. But it wouldn't surprise me for the U.S. to be using some green card 'mercenary' force given how desperate we are for troops in the region.
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grytpype Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-26-04 12:30 AM
Response to Original message
9. A bombshell if it's true!
But I think every "coalition" casualty has been counted. Are they not counting the "Green card" soldiers? I doubt that.
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number6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-26-04 12:44 AM
Response to Original message
10. some comments ....thoughts
how many military people died world wide since Iraq war started ?

how many military people were severely injured and died say six
months later ?

how many died in accidents .....?

think about it
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smallprint Donating Member (778 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-26-04 01:10 AM
Response to Original message
11. Many ways to hide body counts
There are several categories of armed fighters whose deaths may be unreported (or underreported):

1) Special Forces/Black Ops personnel
2) CIA employees
3) American mercenaries
4) Foreign mercenaries

Many of these people are allowed little contact with their families (if they have any) and go for long periods of time without any communication as a normal practice. In fact, with some high-level intelligence personnel, there may not be any official notice of death whatsoever.

Add to this list:
5) "Green Card" soldiers
6) MIA/POWs

And also:
7) Wounded soldiers who are evacuated and then die outside of Iraq (on medevac flight, in hospital or at home). They are usually not counted as combat fatalities.


Add that all up, it's quite a few people-- possibly several thousand.
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vincent_vega_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-26-04 08:23 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. Partially true, true and flat out untrue
1) Special Forces/Black Ops personnel

Not true. Speical Forces hold no special status on Army rosters. There are plenty of SOF personnel on the KIA listings. Their missions are classified, not their status.

2) CIA employees
Partially true. Civilian casualties are not counted in military total, but not concealed. Remember Mike Spahn?

3) American mercenaries
4) Foreign mercenaries

True, If civilian contractors, not counted on US Military roles, like those four in Fallujha.

5) "Green Card" soldiers
Not true. Once in All US military personnel are given equal status on casualty lists. There are NO second class soldiers.

6) MIA/POWs
True. Counted separately unless confirmed killed.

7) Wounded soldiers who are evacuated and then die outside of Iraq (on medevac flight, in hospital or at home). They are usually not counted as combat fatalities.

Not True. There are plenty of DOW (died of wounds) on the Iraq casualty lists that died in Germany or even the US.
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mom cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-26-04 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. Thank you for your clarification. I saw this posted yesterday and it
did not ring true, for many of the same reasons that you posted. We don't need more myths about what is buried out in the desert. I sincerely doubt that there would be such silence if over a thousand soldiers were missing, even if they were from other countries.
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loudsue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-26-04 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #12
16. Do you have a link for that information?
I have heard, through several links in the past, that green card holders are NOT counted.

Do you have a link to any DoD site (or other official military site where we can get the final word on this) that describes WHICH casualties are and are not counted, as you've described here?

:kick:
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catmandu57 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-26-04 08:33 AM
Response to Original message
13. I believe the numbers are enroned, but.
I don't trust this source, not that I don't believe they are hiding the truth, it's just that we don't know for sure. We are being spoonfed numbers and stories the the DOD wants us to get, as I unserstand things it's so dangerous that reporters don't want to travel outside of the relative safety of Baghdad. We don't know what the cheney is going on.
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spooked Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-26-04 08:56 AM
Response to Original message
14. 40,000 Foreign Nationals in the US Military!! READ THIS
Maybe Michael Moore could document military recruiting efforts SOUTH OF THE BORDER!

http://www.ipsnews.net/interna.asp?idnews=23899

Green Card Recruits Get a Raw Deal, Critics Say
by Katherine Stapp


The U.S. government says Staff Sgt Camilo Mejia is nothing more than a deserter who disobeyed direct orders to return to his army unit in Iraq. Mejia does not deny that he refused to go back. He says he witnessed abuse and mistreatment of prisoners at a detention camp outside the Baghdad airport, INCLUDING MOCK EXECUTIONS and sleep deprivation tactics like banging sledgehammers on the walls of cells...

But in a twist, Mejia, a Costa Rican citizen, also argues that under an 1851 treaty between his homeland and the United States, he cannot be forced to perform compulsory military service beyond eight years.

And as one of the 40,000 foreign nationals in the U.S. military, his case has drawn attention to a U.S. government programme that offers the lure of citizenship in exchange for military service...

As the war proceeds, there will be more recruitment from minority and poor white areas. Opportunity in the U.S. is limited, making the service an alternative for the poor.

These efforts do not end at the border. News accounts describe military recruiters travelling to poor border towns in Mexico and indigenous communities in Canada to entice people with U.S. green cards (permanent resident status) to join the army...



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JohnOneillsMemory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-26-04 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. "Recruiters go to poor Mexican border towns"-economic draft tragedy.
This is a tragic article showing how people with few or no choices for a healthy life are offered a gun and told 'if you live, you'll get an official pittance from the US government for doing its dirty work.'

"Hey, Mexicans. Wanna harvest our crops or Iraqis?"
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AlFrankenFan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-26-04 02:39 PM
Response to Original message
18. Wow...well, it wouldn't be the first time the government has LIED
if this turns out to be true. We should watch this get out into the "mainstream" media and see what happens up in the White House...
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