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TeeYiYi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 11:46 AM
Original message
Bloodied knife is found at Hackings'
Bloodied knife is found at Hackings'

Police mum on reports of a blade with blood, hair

Copyright 2004 Deseret Morning News

By Jennifer Dobner and Pat Reavy
Deseret Morning News

A bloodstained knife with strands of hair attached is among the evidence Salt Lake police seized from the apartment of Mark and Lori Hacking, sources told the Deseret Morning News Saturday.

The knife is among numerous items taken including a set of box springs, some bedding and computers from the couple's home in the six days since the newly pregnant Lori Hacking reportedly went missing while taking a sunrise jog Monday in Memory Grove.

<snip>

Also on Saturday, a clump of dark hair was retrieved by evidence technicians from a Dumpster at a Chevron gas station at 2100 S. 300 West. A station attendant reported the finding to police, Salt Lake police detective Phil Eslinger said.

It too will be added to the growing cache of evidence being evaluated, and it may not necessarily be connected to the case, he added.

"We're looking into everything," Eslinger said.

More: http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,595079712,00.html

TYY
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TeeYiYi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 11:47 AM
Response to Original message
1. Bloodstains Found in Hacking Apartment
Bloodstains Found in Hacking Apartment

Saturday, July 24, 2004

SALT LAKE CITY Fox News has learned from family and investigative sources that bloodstains have been found all over the apartment of Mark and Lori Hacking (search).

Police sources say that when they entered the Hacking apartment earlier in the week, it appeared to have been cleaned. But investigators detected a substantial amount of blood and blood drippings using the forensic chemical luminol (search), which can make traces of blood glow blue-green in the dark even if it has been cleaned up, sources say. Police say they believe the blood is Loris and that she was attacked in her apartment. Toxicology results that can confirm whether it is Loris blood are still pending.

<snip>

Police searched a municipal landfill with cadaver sniffing dogs earlier today, possibly searching for a discarded mattress. Mark Hacking reportedly purchased a queen-sized mattress a mere half hour before reporting his wife missing to police. Investigators removed a box spring from the couples apartment late Monday afternoon.

<snip>

Family members have denied that Mark is in a psychiatric ward and on medication following a breakdown during which he was found running around a local hotel with nothing but sandals on Monday night. Mark was checked into University Neuropsychiatric Institute early Tuesday morning, but his current whereabouts are uncertain.

<snip>

We think hes lying and we hope to prove it soon, an investigative official told Fox News.

More: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,126927,00.html

TYY
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medeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #1
10. thanks TeeYi Yi
hadn't heard anything of late.

Fox News is so irresponsible...glad SLC called them on it. Perhaps their reporters won't get credentials to attend news briefings on such a tabloid story?
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TeeYiYi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-04 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #10
51. Cops: 'Rage Killing' in Hacking Home
Cops: 'Rage Killing' in Hacking Home
Tuesday, July 27, 2004

SALT LAKE CITY Police believe that a "rage killing" took place inside Lori and Mark Hacking's apartment hours before Lori was reported missing, FOX News has confirmed.

Authorities also said they believe Lori Hacking (search) was attacked and killed inside the apartment.

Police confirmed that a bloody knife with strands of brown hair on it was among the numerous pieces of evidence they removed from the couple's apartment.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,127115,00.html

TYY

Hi medeak. :hi: Faux seems to have a pretty good inside source. Hopefully there will be an arrest soon. The cadaver dogs were back out at the landfill last night working under artificial lighting until early morning. The volunteer searchers were told not to show up today. At a press conference this afternoon, Detective Dwayne Baird could barely mask his disdain for Lori's husband. He looked pretty pissed but remained guarded about discussing details. The husdand's family hired a top notch criminal attorney last Thursday. (Gil Athay.) Both families were cleaning out the apartment today so that it could be re-rented. Eeesh who would want it?
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medeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-04 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #51
53. thanks Tee
Edited on Tue Jul-27-04 08:32 PM by medeak
how are they allowed to rent out apartment already? That is truly creepy.

Saw a part of interview you are speaking of...heard that the lying was more involved that at first thought. Lord..what a sociopath this guy is....and an orderly at mental hospital?

good grief...he's asking for "video games to pass the time"
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progressivebydesign Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 11:54 AM
Response to Original message
2. This is incredibly sad..and I hope it's misinformation...
.. it's just beyond compreshension. I fear, that if this is true, and the husband did this.. that he staged his breakdown at the motel, to assure a insanity defense. He took some psychology courses... it's not out of the question. He was sane enough to buy a new mattress, and do other things that may have covered up a crime. I hope this is all speculation, and that she is safe somewhere...
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Shopaholic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #2
18. I heard yesterday on MSNBC
They were interviewing Clint Van Zant--formerly "the" FBI Profiler, and he said that Hacking had actually worked at the psych hospital at one point (wasn't clear if he still did or not)--so he certainly would know how mentally disturbed people act. Van Zant sort of hinted that given Hacking's history of lying, that this sort of background knowledge would have been invaluable if he wanted to fake a breakdown.
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allalone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #2
29. odd behavior
Ok so he was supposedly running around naked at a hotel acting crazy, BUT he did have the presence of mind to keep his shoes on to protect his feet. oh, oops!
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Mikimouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 12:21 PM
Response to Original message
3. Now, there's objectivity for you!
We think hes lying and we hope to prove it soon, an investigative official told Fox News". Whatever happened to "innocent until PROVEN GUILTY?" Just another self-serving PIG looking for his 15 minutes.
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fishnfla Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 01:09 PM
Original message
I dont understand your statement
He lied about have a degree and going to med school, among alot of other things with the time line. There is no claim of guilt and innocence in that officer's statement, only the truth vs.lying.

I vote for the truth. I dont think it is "self-serving" for the young ladies family to know the truth.
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Mikimouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
11. I vehemently object to the publicized assertion that he is lying...
about everything. That is what the statement implies (at least to me). If the officer thinks he is lying, then he is entitled to do so, but to make a public statement about it is inappropriate at best, and self serving at worst.
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TexasBushwhacker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. It's inappropriate and so is calling a cop a pig
The police are in the business of investigating crime. Their responsibility is to the victim, not to any suspects. They have to respect the Miranda rights of any suspect, but they are not required, nor should they be required to "play nice". Until proven otherwise, it looks like the only victim so far is Lori Hacking.
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Mikimouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. 'To Protect and To Serve', I don't recognize any provisions in
that , do you?
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Kimber Scott Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #11
22. When did it become so popular for people to be expected NOT to say
what they're really thinking? I'd rather know what somebody really has on their mind, as opposed to what they believe is the politically, or socially, correct way to expose themselves - thoughtwise, that is.
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Mikimouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. When they have public responsibility!
Think about what effect this kind of irresponsible and flippant comment can have people who know nothing about the case. It means something when it comes from someone whom we perceive as an authority or expert.
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Kimber Scott Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. The job of a policeman is to investigate, develop a theory and work
towards putting together a case. He thinks the guy is lying and he's, according to you, not allowed to say so? What country is this again? I wish every public official would say exactly what they think - all the time.
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Mikimouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. Very well, then I assume that you would support..
people making public statements that later turn out to be unfounded, but had caused someone innocent to be either incarcerated or executed? I can think of one particularly clear example of this in our recent history, one that thus far has resulted in thousands of civilian deaths and over 900 hundred American deaths. The same rules apply across the board.
One additional observation: I never said that he was not allowed to say so, I only said that his PUBLIC statement was totally inappropriate and irresponsible. I stand by my observation.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #28
35. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Kimber Scott Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #28
39. I stand by the guy's right to speak his mind and this has nothing to do
with the president lying to us. Gawd. Such drama.
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Mikimouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #39
46. My point was related to public figures, and I do think
that my comparison is germane. A public servant has a responsibility to those whom he or she serves. Would you want the people teaching your impressionable children to teach them their opinions, or would rather they keep their opinions to themselves and teach the material? It equates to the same thing. May I suggest that you read the Social Psychology literature (Garfinkel)? It illustrates exactly what I am saying quite elegantly. People will almost always respond to the suggestions of those they perceive to be experts in their field. Even when the people later find out that the 'expert' was not such, many of them still stick by their original perceptions (sound familiar? That's why the comparison to * is germane).
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JSJ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-26-04 03:28 AM
Response to Reply #46
48. you're right, mikimouse- the 'pig' was trying to taint the jury pool n/t
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BiggJawn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #22
42. Poisons the pool of potential jurors.
"Oh, he's a liar, I heard the police say that on the Tee-Vee..."

That's why they should stick to "just the facts" like Jack Webb's Joe Friday did, and leave the wild-assed speculation to the Media. Geraldo will be making a pest of himself in their town soon enough.
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question everything Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #3
12. "innocent until proven guilty" is really for the court
Police officers and the prosecutors will, of course, gather evidence in support of their theory.

Oh, and I have heard it on CNN, too, this morning, so it is not only Fox.
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Mikimouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #12
21. I agree, and that's what my post was about...
It is not appropriate for anyone involved in the investigation to speculate publicly on anyone's guilt or innocence. That would be tantamount to what has happened in so many cases (O.J. comes to mind) wherein the media whores convicted him on the tube and no one seemed to mind. I do mind, and a great deal!
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Kimber Scott Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #21
40. Since you brought up O.J. here is one example of how someone
expressing themselves - showing their true colors - got someone off the hook - and not executed. Mark Fuhrman comes to mind. So, whatever the "media whores" did, your argument falls flat.
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Mikimouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #40
44. Off the hook? I hardly think so...
I don't consider being subjected to what I consider double jeopardy getting off the hook. Do you think for one minute that he could have gotten an unbiased jury for the civil trial after all the mewling in the media. I hardly think so.
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liberalmuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
4. I read in the SL Trib today...
Edited on Sun Jul-25-04 12:26 PM by liberalmuse
that the police are furious with Fox News for saying that blood was found all over the apartment. According to the police, that information is unconfirmed, though if it were true, they wouldn't release it anyway.

The sad fact is, (on edit: married) women are more likely to be abused or killed by their husbands during pregnancy--anyway, 42% of the time it is the spouse who has committed the murder. I hope this isn't the case, but you've got to admit that it is very suspicious--especially the fact that Hacking was buying a new mattress. You don't do that without taking the wife along.
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rocktivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Hubby said she left to go jogging and never returned.
THAT'S his biggest problem. And yes, it does sound like there's an insanity defense brewing. Hope the cops know where he is.

:headbang:
rocknation
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exJW Donating Member (309 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 12:55 PM
Response to Original message
6. The husband is a murderer
and a stupid one to boot. Disgusting.
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RebelOne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #6
33. I agree. All the clues point to him
even though the police say he is not a suspect. Come on. how much proof do you need? Buying a new mattress and then reporting that his wife is missing?
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gauguin57 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
7. Look, I'm sorry that this young woman is missing, probably dead,
BUT ...

1) is this going to be the next case with which the media will become obsessed to the point of ignoring the geopolitical issues that are vital for all of our futures?

2) once again ... a pretty WHITE WOMAN goes missing, and the media goes ga-ga. There are lots and lots of women who go missing/are murdered by significant others all over this country all the time, and we never hear a word about it. Poor women. Minority women.
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TeeYiYi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #7
15. She's not 'WHITE' . . .
. . . although I'm not sure why it would matter if she was. She's Hispanic and her father is a Portuguese man who speaks broken English. You're the second person at DU to complain about her being white. I have to say . . . I don't get it. She's a young woman who went missing while presumably jogging and a community came out to try and find her before it was too late. They didn't take color into consideration why do you?



TYY :eyes:
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Boomer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #15
30. Just FYI, Hispanics can be white
"Hispanic" is a language group, not a racial designation. Many Hispanics are Caucasian, which would include European Spaniards and Portugese.

And the criticism is valid, in my view. The issue is not about a local community response, but about the exuberant MEDIA response. Young white, middle-class women get far more national publicity when they go missing than do other demographic groups: men, the elderly, and people of color. Which means the media attention is geared toward sensationalism rather than informative news.
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TeeYiYi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #30
34. Perhaps you prefer . . .
. . . Latina. 'Hispanic' is not strictly defined as a language group. Merrian-Webster defines Hispanic as:

Main Entry: Hispanic
Pronunciation: hi-'spa-nik
Function: adjective
Etymology: Latin hispanicus, from Hispania Iberian Peninsula, Spain
: of, relating to, or being a person of Latin American descent living in the U.S.; especially : one of Cuban, Mexican, or Puerto Rican origin (Latin Hispnicus, from Hispnia Spain.)


Both definitions are correct and I think my intent was clear. She's Latina and her father is Portuguese with English as a second language. Her 'MISSING' poster mentions 'dark brown hair' and 'dark complexion'. She's not 'WHITE' and I highly doubt that's a problem for her. Merrian-Webster defines White as:

Main Entry: 1white
Pronunciation: 'hwIt, 'wIt
Function: adjective
Inflected Form(s): whiter; whitest
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English hwIt; akin to Old High German hwIz white and probably to Old Church Slavonic svetu light, Sanskrit sveta white, bright
1 a : free from color b : of the color of new snow or milk; specifically : of the color white c : light or pallid in color <white hair> <lips white with fear> d : lustrous pale gray : SILVERY; also : made of silver
2 a : being a member of a group or race characterized by light pigmentation of the skin b : of, relating to, characteristic of, or consisting of white people or their culture c (from the former stereotypical association of good character with northern European descent) : marked by upright fairness <that's mighty white of you>


She's not white and she's not rich. She's not even middle-class. Have you seen their apartment? She was turned down for a loan just this past Thursday based on her husband's duplicitious lying history about medical school. I can't speak to what communities are like nationally, but any time a person or family in Utah is in trouble, be it a child gone missing or a hiker caught on a ledge, the people come out in throngs to offer their help, financial and otherwise. Race and socio-economic standing of the victim is not a consideration. That's just Utah and I'm proud of the people here for that reason. I'm sorry you don't know what it's like to live in a community filled with generous kind hearted people that come to your aid in times of need, regardless of 'color'. They're holding a candlelight vigil for Lori tonight at 9:00.



TYY
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Boomer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-26-04 08:14 AM
Response to Reply #34
50. You're consistently missing the point
I'm sorry you don't know what it's like to live in a community filled with generous kind hearted people that come to your aid in times of need, regardless of 'color'.

As I said in my post, I am NOT talking about community response -- that outpouring of concern for anyone missing is a given in most places that I've ever lived. I'm talking about national MEDIA response to missing person reports.

The media machine obsesses on the Lacy Peterson cases and ignores all the others. People go missing every day in this country, but only a few of these people catch the media eye. Young, attractive pregnant women seem to be a favorite of the media. If you're a middle-aged black man only your local community cares that you are missing -- the media isn't interested.
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clydefrand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #7
17. Amen
These so-called high profile cases only become that way because the media is obsessed with the stories. There are hundreds, maybe thousands of similar cases all across the country, but only a few get this kind of recognition. Why? I believe your last line says it all--poor, minority, and I might add, unattractive.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #7
31. Well she's obviously the only
pregnant woman to turn up missing in Utah this year. Just like Lacy Peterson was the only pregnant woman in CA to be murdered in 2002. :think:
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Red_Viking Donating Member (903 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 01:09 PM
Response to Original message
8. Are they Mormon?
If the husband thought she committed a sin, the way for her to achieve redemption is through bloodletting. This kind of thing has happened before in Utah. They're the only state that executes by firing squad.

I'm not casting aspersions, I'm just curious--I have no idea what happened, but their religion could come into play. When I first heard about it, I thought she might be fleeing the church and not want to be found. Now, I'm not so sure. Very sad, whatever the case.

:dem:

RV
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Kimber Scott Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #8
25. What the hell are you talking about?
Where did you get this information? Bloodletting as a redemption of sin? I used to be a member of the LDS church and I never heard of such a thing. Sin is a matter to be worked out between one's self and one's Savior. And, nobody has to "flee" the church. They aren't a bunch of Moonies for Christ's sake.

I find it a little odd we here "on the left" are always preaching open-mindedness then somebody comes up with some crazy, horrendously biased, idea such as this. Did somebody teach you this? Where did you hear it? I'm not a fan of the LDS church - I'm a devout agnostic - but, wow, this is pretty far out there.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #25
32. There are many different
kinds of Mormons. I am in the midwest and our LDS churches don't sound a thing like the ones in Utah. Oh and they call themselves Community of Christ now. Is that just here or other places also?
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Arcturus Donating Member (165 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #32
37. Community of Christ
The Community of Christ is formerly known as the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. They're an offshoot of Mormonism, although I believe they've rejected a few key similarities between the Mormon church (namely belief in the Book of Mormon, although I could be mistaken). There are regular LDS churches in the midwest as well.

Many Mormons get sensitive when the term "Mormon" is used to refer to all groups that have branched off of the LDS church, because then certain teachings can inadvertently be attributed to the LDS church.

I've been an active Mormon my whole life and have never heard of this "bloodletting" doctrine before.
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Kimber Scott Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 10:26 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. I think the Reorganized Church came about when the original LDS
church rejected plural marriage. The "Reorganizers" (I don't know what to call them) felt the LDS church had betrayed the true doctrine. We have some practitioners of the Reorganized Church, or I guess they're now Community of Christ, in Northern AZ who still practice plural marriage and are coming under quite a bit of heat from the law because many of the wives are under age and a lot of them are living on welfare. These people are in no way affiliated with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I have heard some "escaped wives" tell tales of having to flee, but I've never heard of any blood-letting. Although, who knows? But, this is probably what the person I originally responded to was talking about. I had forgotten about them.

I wonder if they changed their name under pressure from the LDS church? Obviously, they bring bad publicity and a lot of confusion.
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Tansy_Gold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #38
41. "Reorganized" LDS is **NOT** the group in N. AZ
I'm sure some folks who are better at their LDS history will correct me, but I believe the "Reorganized" LDS church was formed to maintain the bulk of the original beliefs without the plural marriage. They took their "reorganized" faith back from the western states into the midwest and eastern states, where the whole thing of plural marriage was never accepted. I knew many "Reorganizeds" /sic/ when I lived in northern Indiana. I was not aware that they had changed to "Community of Christ," but I admit it's not something I've kept up on.

However -- The people who live in the portion of Arizona north of the Grand Canyon in communities such as Colorado City are NOT members of the Reorganized Church of Latter Day Saints. They are members of a church /sic/ that still practices what they consider the "original" LDS faith, including often forcing young girls into plural marriages with much older men. They are as fundamentalist as any followers of R.J. Rushdoony or Osama bin Laden.


Tansy Gold
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Arcturus Donating Member (165 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #41
43. The reorganized church
I believe the Reorganized LDS church was founded after Joseph Smith's murder. They believed that the new prophet had to be a descendent of Smith, and their first prophet was Joseph Smith III. The LDS church had different ideas, and they parted ways. I'll need to double check my facts, though.
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Tansy_Gold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #43
45. You're correct, Arcturus
I found most of the history at cofchrist.org.

After Joseph Smith's murder, various "splinter groups" of the LDS Church came back together, eventually re-organizing under the leadership of Joseph Smith III.

The Reorganized LDS church, which became Community of Christ, even ordains women. Hardly the same as the groups in Colorado City, AZ, and Hildale, UT.

Tansy Gold, off on tangents as usual
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TeeYiYi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-26-04 01:24 AM
Response to Reply #25
47. I think Red_Viking is referring to 'blood atonement' . . .
. . . which was taught and carried out as a part of traditional early Mormon doctrine. Although Mormons no longer preach and/or ascribe to this doctrine, there are splinter groups who do. Beginning in about 1970 it became apparent that there were assassinations being being carried out by Mormon fundamentalists in the name of 'blood atonement'. The killings continued in bloody escalation for about 15 years until 1984 when Utah was shocked by the brutal slayings of Brenda Lafferty and her baby:

On July 24, 1984, Ron and Dan Lafferty forced their way into their brother Allen's home in American Fork, Utah, and brutally murdered his wife and her 15-month-old daughter. On August 17, 1984, the Tribune reported that, "The victims' throats were slashed in what police speculated may have been a ritualistic murder." American Fork Police Chief Randy Johnson claimed that "the victims were listed on a hand-written 'religious revelation' which told Ronald Lafferty to commit the murders." (Ibid., July 31, 1984) The revelation, which was found in the pocket of Ron Lafferty's shirt, was later produced as evidence at the trial of Dan Lafferty. The Salt Lake Tribune printed the important portion of the revelation on Jan. 8, 1985:

The document, which was read to the jury, states: "Thus sayeth the Lord unto my servants the prophets. It is my will and commandment that ye remove the following individuals in order that my work might go forward, for they have truly become obstacles in my path and I will not allow my work to be stopped.

"First thy brother's wife Brenda and her baby, then Chloe Low and then Richard Stowe. And it is my will that they be removed in rapid succession that an example be made of them in order that others might see the fate of those who fight against the true saints of God...."

On January 11, 1985, the Tribune reported:

PROVO Daniel Charles Lafferty ... told companions it was "no problem" to cut the 15-month-old child's throat as she lay in her crib. "I felt the spirit ... it was with me," he said .... Chief Utah County Attorney Wayne Watson .... gave jurors a "road map" of the case... "They then slashed her throat with a 10-inch blade ... and held her head back so the blood would spill from her body."

Mr. Watson, his voice cracked with emotion, said that then Dan Lafferty took the razor-edged knife "and walked down the hallway to that bedroomwith the baby crying "Mommy!" "Mommy!"and he cut her throat.

:scared: Coincidentally, if it turns out that Lori and her unborn child were murdered, it will have happened almost 20 years later to the date which just happens to be 'Pioneer Day' in Utah a very symbolic date for Mormons.

More on blood atonement from early Mormon doctrine:

Brigham Young, the second president of the Mormon Church, publicly preached what is known as the "blood atonement" doctrinei.e., that a man might be killed to save his soul. His sermons were published in the Church's own newspaper, Deseret News, and were later reprinted by the Mormons in England in the Journal of Discourses. There can be no question, therefore, regarding the accuracy of the printed reports. In one sermon, President Brigham Young made these comments:

"This is loving our neighbour as ourselves; if he needs help, help him; and if he wants salvation and it is necessary to spill his blood on the earth in order that he may be saved, spill it. Any of you who understand the principles of eternity, if you have sinned a sin requiring the shedding of blood, except the sin unto death, would not be satisfied nor rest until your blood should be spilled, that you might gain that salvation you desire. That is the way to love mankind. (Sermon by Brigham Young, delivered in the Mormon Tabernacle, Feb. 8, 1857, printed in the Deseret News, Feb. 18, 1857; also reprinted in the Journal of Discourses, Vol. 4, pp. 219-20)"

In another sermon, Brigham Young made it plain that a man could blood atone his own wife:

"Let me suppose a case. Suppose you found your brother in bed with your wife, and put a javelin through both of them, you would be justified, and they would atone for their sins, and be received into the kingdom of God. I would at once do so in such a case; and under such circumstances, I have no wife whom I love so well that I would not put a javelin through her heart, and I would do it with clean hands...

There is not a man or woman, who violates the covenants made with their God, that will not be required to pay the debt. The blood of Christ will never wipe that out, your own blood must atone for it;... (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 3, p. 247)"

On another occasion Brigham Young warned: "Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty under the law of God is death on the spot. This will always be so." (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 10, page 110)

Brigham Young taught that in the case of miscegenation with blacks, the children should also be blood atoned. Wilford Woodruff, who became the fourth president of the Mormon Church, recorded in his journal an address delivered by Brigham Young in 1852. In this address we find the following:

"Any man having one drop of the seed of Cane in him Cannot hold the priesthood ... I will say it now in the name of Jesus Christ. I know it is true & they know it. The Negro cannot hold one particle of Government ... if any man mingles his seed with the seed of Cane the ownly way he Could get rid of it or have salvation would be to Come forward & have his head Cut off & spill his Blood upon the ground. It would also take the life of his Children." (Wilford Woodruff's Journal, Vol. 4, p.

Although the Mormon Church no longer encourages the practice of blood atonement, some of the Church leaders still believe in the basic principles underlying the doctrine. Joseph Fielding Smith, who served as the tenth president of the Church, made these comments about the doctrine:

TRUE DOCTRINE OF BLOOD ATONEMENT. Just a word or two now, on the subject of blood atonement.... man may commit certain grievous sinsaccording to his light and knowledgethat will place him beyond the reach of the atoning blood of Christ. If then he would be saved he must make sacrifice of his own life to atoneso far as in his power liesfor that sin, for the blood of Christ alone under certain circumstances will not avail .... And men for certain crimes have had to atone as far as they could for their sins wherein they have placed themselves beyond the redeeming power of the blood of Christ. (Doctrines of Salvation, 1954, Vol. 1, pp. 133-136)


You can read all about blood atonement in the Mormon church at: http://www.utlm.org/newsletters/no56.htm

TYY
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wish_I_could_vote Donating Member (189 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 01:18 PM
Response to Original message
9. Aside from the tragedy of the whole thing
What struck me was the media screeching. When Laci Peterson disappeared we were repeatedly told that Scott was a suspect because his demeanor was too controlled. He did not behave in a way one would expect a grieving husband to behave. Now we are told that Hacking appears guilty because his behavior was too uncontrolled.

This is a pet peeve of mine. Judging people by how they react publicly to tragedy. Let those press leeches walk in a bereaved person's shoes for a day and let's all judge them according to the appropriateness of their reactions.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. I just wish that the police would NEVER let more out in the public
than the fact that she is missing..here's her picture.. if you see her or hear anthing interesting..call us..

Keep the crying parents and family members OFF the TV.. That's what's driving the "grieve-a-thon" mentality. Does ANYONE believe that a "kidnapper/rapist/killer" will have a change of heart if he sees Grandma blubbering on tv??

The police are too loose-lipped with the tabloid press, and it actually prevents the "justice" they claim the so desperately want..

To quote O'Reilly....SHUT UP....SHUT UP....SHUT UP...

Tell us all about it AFTER the trial...show us snippets if you must, but until the investigation is done, and the trial is over, WE DO NOT NEED HOURLY UPDATES...



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timtom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-26-04 04:30 AM
Response to Reply #13
49. I'm definitely with you on this, SoCalDem
Edited on Mon Jul-26-04 04:31 AM by nathan hale
Notice how the "authorities" are selective in giving out information. If this were some cheezy political thug such as Ken Lay, there would be a chorus of "no comment" type of statements.

Feh!
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 02:09 PM
Response to Original message
14. There is a lot of missing gaps in this whole story ..
maybe it's just a stall while the police confirm their case?

I'd say it does indeed look bad for Mr. Hacking. But who knows?
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Shopaholic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #14
19. And does anyone think it odd how her family
keeps declaring that they love him? If that were me, I can assure you that my family would have hung my husband up by the heels until he admitted where he'd stashed my body. In fact, that would probably be the least of what they'd do to him--no matter how much they loved him.
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TheWebHead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 05:35 PM
Response to Original message
24. Faux is thanking the heavens for the Hacking case
they were desperate to not only have a follow-up to Scott Peterson, but they also wanted coverage to "justify" lighting coverage of the DNC convention, which would make their right wing viewers turn the channel in droves.
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Cicero Donating Member (412 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 06:10 PM
Response to Original message
27. I've had a bad feeling about this from the start
...as soon as I heard that the husband had lied about being accepted to medical school, I knew she was dead. The bloody knife merely confirms it for me.

Damn.

Later,
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madaboutharry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 09:23 PM
Response to Original message
36. I don't understand
how someone can get away with living a lie for so long. How do you lie about graduating college and going to medical school? What did he plan on doing once they got to North Carolina? Most people can't get away with fibing to their spouse about what they ate for lunch.
This entire story is so tragic and I think the ending is going to be very sad.
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InkAddict Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-27-04 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #36
52. Windmills of our minds
one word - TRUST.

Nice people do it. Liars depend on that advantage.
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