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No Shortage of Fighters in Iraq's Wild West (Ramadi)

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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 09:11 AM
Original message
No Shortage of Fighters in Iraq's Wild West (Ramadi)
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/latimest...

<snip>
This is what the war has come down to in Iraq's Sunni Muslim heartland, where providing tenuous security harks back to America's 19th century Indian Wars a time when the cavalry set up outposts and forts in decidedly hostile territory. Ramadi is Indian Country "the wild, wild West," as the region is called.

<snip>
The months of fighting have made it clear to these Marines that they are in an inhospitable place where much of the population would like to see them gone and many want them dead. A decisive military victory here is widely viewed as unlikely, Marines say.

The recent hand-over of sovereignty to an interim Iraqi government was generally welcomed as the first step in an exit strategy that eventually will remove the incendiary presence of U.S. troops and put Iraqis in the front lines of their own fight.

"Personally, I see this as a stalemate: We could keep fighting in this same manner forever," said Lance Cpl. David Goward, 26, who had a copy of "The Great Gatsby" to read in his spare moments. "They have no shortage of weapons. And neither do we. As long as Americans are here, they're going to keep on fighting."




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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 09:18 AM
Response to Original message
1. Vis a vis
"They have no shortage of weapons. And neither do we. As long as Americans are here, they're going to keep on fighting."<<

As would we were the situation reversed... it's only natural.
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acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 09:42 AM
Response to Original message
2. Well then, sounds like there's more of a problem here than the bush*
cabal or their little buddy Allawi would like to admit.

It is not a good thing when the troops on the ground know that they are in a situation that can't be won, that they're caught in a meat grinder with no way out and their government has abandoned them over there. Which is pretty much what they did. All the important folks left a almost a month ago. It's just the cannon fodder over there now.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. Robert Fisk wrote about the extent of the Iraq disaster a few days ago....
Edited on Sun Jul-25-04 10:22 AM by leftchick
He said that the US/Allawi is really only in charge of Baghdad (somewhat). The rest of the country is pretty much run by the various resistance forces. Very bad for our troops as they realize the hopeless situation bushco* has put them in.

Link to Fisk article....

http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/issues/iraq/electi...
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acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. I need to learn to use the <sarcasm> indicator when I'm being a wise
guy. That way maybe some of my remarks won't be taken for ignorance when in reality I'm just trying to be a smart ass.
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jmcgowanjm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 09:47 AM
Response to Original message
3. And Mafkarat al Islam's version
Edited on Sun Jul-25-04 09:55 AM by jmcgowanjm
Wednesday, 21 July 2004.

FIERCE FIGHTING RAGES IN AR-RAMADI.

Resistance ambush sparks day-long confrontation with
invader troops.

The correspondent of Mafkarat al-Islam in the city reported
that the clashes began when a group of Resistance
fighters ambushed an American patrol consisting of
four Humvees and a number of foot soldiers.
Resistance fighters pounded the Humvees with rocket-
propelled grenades (RPGs) destroying all of them and
sparking a battle on al-Ishrin (1920) Street that lasted
until sunset as US reinforcements poured into the area.

The American side threw Apache helicopters and tanks into
the fray but in the end 14 US troops were killed and eight
others wounded, most of them the troops who were aboard
the Humvees that were attacked during the
morning.

The Resistance also shot down one US Apache helicopter
(see story below) in the course of the fighting. During the
fierce battle the US forces blew up the Abd ar-Razzaq
Science Library, the most famous library and a meeting place
for ar-Ramadis students.

Resistance kills seven US sharpshooters.

(more)

http://www.freearabvoice.org/Iraq/Report/report103.htm

What the Marine's keep calling "the Taxi Stand", the Resistance
seems to describe as "the General/Central Garage".



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jmcgowanjm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. 2,000 U.S. troops killed in Iraq: Russian expert
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jmcgowanjm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Brain injuries lead Iraq war injuries -072304 UPI
WASHINGTON, July 23 (UPI) -- Nearly two-thirds of
injured
U.S. soldiers sent from Iraq to Walter Reed Army
Medical
Center have been diagnosed with traumatic brain
injuries --
a percentage thought to be higher than any other
past
U.S. conflict, military officials told United
Press
International.

http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=20040721-030507-246...

Higher %age than I thought.

Calling upon various resources, in and out of
the
military, American Free Press estimates that as many
as
30,000 American servicemen have been sent home
from
Iraq and Afghanistan as a result of battle wounds,
accidents
and illnesses.

The American Legion doesnt know. The Veterans of
Foreign Wars (VFW) doesnt know. The Disabled
American Veterans (DAV) doesnt know. Not even the
Purple Heart Association admits knowledge, and they should
be aware of every soldier wounded in
combat.

http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/the_best_kept_.ht...

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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #5
19. all for nothing. n/t
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Toots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 10:23 AM
Response to Original message
7. It must be too hot to grow flowers there.
I could have sworn that we were assured by Cheney and Rummy that they would be showering our guys with flowers not bombs.
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Ernesto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 11:16 AM
Response to Original message
8. "How do you ask a man to be the last one to die?"
I think that is what John Kerry said about another quagmire.
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. To die for a mistake, is the full quote I think.
n/t
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Ernesto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Thanks Amigo
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amber dog democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
10. Well thank god we won this war and gave sovereignty to the Iraqis.
..or I would feat this war will be the Chimp's undoing.
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Ah yes, autonomy and winning goes hand in hand, 'eh?
No matter the price.
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Ms. Clio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 03:59 PM
Response to Original message
11. Comparing the Iraqis to Indians in the "Wild West" is quite ironic
During the 19th century Indian wars, army officers and other observers routinely compared the Native Americans to nomadic Arabs and Tartars.
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Never heard that one before!
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Disturbed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. Saddam's People are Winning the War
Saddam's People are Winning the War
by Scott Ritter


(clip) The truth is that there never was a significant people-based opposition movement inside Iraq for the Bush administration to call on to form a government to replace Saddam. It is why the United States has instead been forced to rely on the services of individuals tainted by their association with foreign intelligence services, or drawn from opposition parties heavily infiltrated by agents of Saddam's former security services.
(clip) Regardless of the number of troops the United States puts on the ground or how long they stay there, Allawi's government is doomed to fail. The more it fails, the more it will have to rely on the United States to prop it up. The more the United States props up Allawi, the more discredited he will become in the eyes of the Iraqi people - all of which creates yet more opportunities for the Iraqi resistance to exploit.
(clip) We will suffer a decade-long nightmare that will lead to the deaths of thousands more Americans and tens of thousands of Iraqis. We will witness the creation of a viable and dangerous anti-American movement in Iraq that will one day watch as American troops unilaterally withdraw from Iraq every bit as ignominiously as Israel did from Lebanon.
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0723-08.htm

*Kerry and Edwards should read this article and hire Mr. Ritter as a consultant.

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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Thank you
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Ms. Clio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-26-04 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #13
21. Not to be too pedantic, but I can't resist quoting Captain Randolph Marcy
from his report of his 1853 expedition on the Red River, where he makes an extended comparison over several pages:

"In addition to the physical similitude between the deserts of Arabia, the steppes of Central Asia, and the prairie mesas of our own country, a very striking resemblance is also observed in the habits and customs of the respective inhabitants. The Arabs of the desert, the Tartar tribes, and the aboriginal occupants of the prairies, are alike wanderers . . . In their political and domestic relations there is also a similarity to the Old World nomads."

Obviously the Iraqis are not wandering nomads. But the western imagery in the article that opened this thread, the comparisons of American military positions in an Arab nation to Army forts in Indian territory, and the explicit comparison of modern Iraqis to hostile Indians from a grim and bloody chapter of American history--these are really historically striking and starkly revealing observations.

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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-25-04 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #11
17. ironic indeed...
this misadministration takes the prize for irony at all levels....
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Ms. Clio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-26-04 12:41 AM
Response to Reply #11
20. self-delete wrong post n/t
Edited on Mon Jul-26-04 12:44 AM by meluseth
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