Child-Killer Yates in Hospital for Refusing Food

[happynewyear]

HOUSTON (Reuters) - A despondent Andrea Yates is receiving treatment in a Texas hospital for depression so severe she has refused to eat since around the anniversary last month of the day she drowned her five children, her lawyer said on Wednesday.

Yates, 40, has lost more than 20 pounds in recent weeks and was "incoherent" when moved on Monday from her psychiatric prison to a hospital in Galveston, attorney George Parnham said in an interview.

"I can just imagine the depth of despair she's in, the depth of hurt and desperation over the deaths of her children," he said.

Parnham said Yates had improved on Wednesday to the point that "there's a little twinkle of life," but was still in bad shape.

Yates is serving a life sentence for killing her children on June 20, 2001, in a case that raised awareness of women's mental health issues and brought criticism of the Texas criminal justice system.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20040722/ts...

I wonder where her devoted husband is?

[UdoKier]

1. More human wreckage caused by the fundamentalist brand of Christianity...

Whenever I hear of a woman who's killed all her kids, it's always just a matter of time before the reporter rattles off a list of very biblical names...

What is it about fanatical protestant fundamentalism that makes these otherwise well-off moms off all their kids?

[yardwork]

2. Postpartum psychosis can happen to anybody.

I think we tend to see the stories about fundamentalist mothers killing their children more often for the following reasons:

It's more interesting to the press to publicize stories about white middle-income women killing their babies.

Fundamentalist families tend to have biases against accessing mental health care, which means that the problem is denied and untreated.

Fundamentalist families tend to have "traditional" structures, where the husband works away from home, leaving the mother alone with the babies.

Fundamentalist families tend to have a lot of kids, because after all that is the role of the woman in their view.

Fundamentalists believe in the devil, so the mother's psychosis is likely to include images of the devil and hell, making the press even more interested in promoting the story.

All of the above existed in this particular sad story, which the ignorant press wasted no time in exploiting. The same sad story gets played out in other families, too, but we don't necessarily hear about it.

[UdoKier]

3. Postpartum? Weren't her kids pretty big?

Your logic as to why this kind of case is so common among fundies is enlightening, though.

My thinking was that the mothers were thinking that they would spare their kids a life of sin, and thus damnation, by killing them before they were corrupted. Then by repenting, the mother could be spared hell herself, even if executed, so long as it wasn't the unforgiveable sin of suicide.

As an agnostic, I would never kill a child (first of all because I love them and am not a killer) but second because I believe that this is the only life we get, and that makes it all the more precious.

[rpannier]

12. She had a couple of very young children

I'm pretty sure one was under the age of two.

[0007]

34. Hmmmm interesting logic, it would seem to me that the fundies

would then be more favorable toward abortions, 'eh?

I respect your beliefs and opinions. Accordingly, "your freedom ends where my nose begins"

[TeacherCreature]

35. Some of them were older but she was suffering from Post partum

from her last pregnancy.

[murielm99]

6. This woman was home schooling her kids, too.

That is another very common thing among fundies.

So, she was stuck at home all day with the kids, with no break from anything, while her husband worked.

I don't care how supportive he was/is -- that is a recipe for stress even in a well balanced mother.

She was advised not to have any more kids, because she had had such severe postpartum depression after each one.

She had been prescribed medication before the childrens' deaths, and she was not taking it.

My only judgement here is about how the fundies treat their women. This poor woman was downtrodden!

I had a friend who committed suicide during postpartum depression. She was only 24. She had a 2 and 1/2 year old, and a baby of six weeks.

She had two difficult pregnancies. She was living in England at the
time. She hated the climate, and was having a tough time adjusting to the culture. Her mother had died recently.

I wish she had not felt so alone.

Obviously, Andrea Yates felt alone, too, in spite of her faith.

[TeacherCreature]

38. was your friend a fundamentalist Christian too?

I agree that anyone who is isolated and not getting help is in danger. There are many reasons people become downtrodden and isolated.

[amazona]

39. wrong-- she WAS taking her medication

Many people have medication-treatment resistant psychoses and/or depression. Yates was one of them. Her medication was changed just two weeks before the killing. to a combination -- I believe one of the medicines was Effexor, I'm forgetting the other. SSRIs and changes in SSRIs are recognized in Great Britain as causing these excessive acts of violence in a few vulnerable people. If Yates had been hospitalized while observing the effects of this new RX on her system, I'm confident her kids would be alive today. Unfortunately, no insurance co. in the U.S. wants to hospitalize people for two to four weeks while adjusting their SSRIs. The cost would be enormous, and after all it is only a tiny minority that has this bad reaction.

There was a link at CounterPunch about this issue up for many months. Perhaps it is still in the archives.

Andrea Yates received lots of care. Unfortunately, she experienced a rare but recognized side effect of her medicines. I don't feel she belongs in prison but, as her illness is resistant to treatment, it may be that she belongs in a hospital for an indefinite period. Unfortunately you can almost never get a "not reason by guilty of insanity" verdict even in extreme cases in many states, and apparently Texas is one of them.

I feel sorry for her. I wouldn't eat either. Why would she want to live?

Note-- I am not trying to remove SSRIs from the market for those who benefit from them. Indeed, I'm a shareholder in the company that makes Effexor. I just think there needs to be more monitoring of the side effects, especially when a patient has a history of not responding or improving with other SSRIs.

[AngryAmish]

17. Well said

[chimpy the poopthrower]

28. Excellent analysis

(Muriel's point about homeschooling, as well.)

Religious fundamentalism doesn't cause mental illness, but the associated lifestyles and attitudes toward social support structures can result in a dangerous situation.

[happynewyear]

4. a whole baseball team

That is what they were aiming for. Too bad this woman/breeder is obviously sick in the head/psychotic.

Having religious delusions does not help.

She figures she is saving these kids, or so she thought. Now she's trying to finish herself off. Maybe she finally realizes what she did.

And to think ... they were going for another half a dozen+ kids. How incredibly sick.

And where is the husband Mr. Perfect?

I find this whole story to be an example of how far fundies will go given the wrong set of circumstances.

A very sad situation at best.

[mn9driver]

5. Link to interview

Russell Yates sees his wife on a regular basis. A sad situation, possibly exacerbated by fundie weirdness. He sounds fairly normal, though.

http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0403/29/lkl.00.html

[pennylane100]

7. He probably feels guilty for not getting her the help she needed.

I remember reading that he had provided very little help with the upbringing of his children and that he had never even changed a diaper. Of course, that may not be true.

Also, I understand that after the birth of her fourth child she was hospitalized with post par tum depression and told never to have any more children as it would get worse after the next birth. They both disregarded that advice, although I do not know how much a say she had in it.

I believe that it is a tragedy that a mentally ill woman is locked up in prison instead of a mental health facility where she belongs.

[stanwyck]

11. If he's fairly normal

we're in big trouble. His wife had been hospitalized for severe depression on more than one occasion and was prescribed a battery of anti-depressants. She had been diagnosed with mental illness by several doctors. Yet her husband left his children with her, day after day. How "normal" is that? Plus, the video of the man on the day following the deaths of his children showed a camera-loving man eagerly showing the press around the house and yard as he babbled about his family. He had a responsibility to his children and his sick wife and he failed them all.

[rocktivity]

43. Normal husbands don't knock up their wives every year

if they have a history of clinical depression, and top it off by expecting them to provide them a formal education. And they probably still be living in a undersized trailer if the mother of one of them hadn't put her foot down and demanded that Russel get a house.


rocknation

[lostnfound]

9. Perfectionism & an inability to face reality. nt

[Darth_Kitten]

27. Why do ill women never seem to get the kind of treatment they

need in the United States? A jury convicted her, didn't seem to have any compassion or understanding of her illness, or how the whole tragedy could have been prevented.

What is it about America at large and it's treatment of women in general?

[redqueen]

45. Sexist culture

There have been studies showing how women's heart disease is underfunded and underdiagnosed.

There are so many problems in our society that have their roots in sexism.

[TeacherCreature]

36. not true

sorry, but that is just not true. Crazy people don't need religion to make them so.

[DiverDave]

8. Once again

the kids are dead and the perp goes on...
fuck her and the people who KNEW or should have known, that she was loopy.
Kill a kid, and then you get sympathy. Some world we live in.
Sorry, she is a killer and the people who knew the score should be in jail for allowing it to get to this point.

[Redhead488]

10. Let her starve herself

to death. A man who did what she did would be on death row in Texas right now.

[redqueen]

21. Yeah, it's funny how men don't get Postpartum Psychosis as much

innit?

[Timefortruth]

23. She is on death row in Texas.

But it is ironic that they feel a need to fatten her up for the kill.

[Bridget Burke]

24. No, she's not on death row.

She's just doing hard time in the prison.

[chimpy the poopthrower]

30. I hope that you and Diver Dave...

...never have to experience having a loved one suffer from post-partum depression or other mental illness. Do you feel that the entire concept of "not guilty by reason of mental illness" is invalid, or do you simply think Yates was "faking it"?

[Bridget Burke]

13. Contrast this with the case of Deanna Laney

She's the Tyler woman who bludgeoned her two children to death; she said God told her to do it. The jury accepted her plea of insanity & she was sentenced to psychiatric care for an unspecified period of time.

Andrea Yates got hard prison time. However, she wasn't as cute as Deanna Laney--who had no previous history of mental problems.

[noonwitch]

14. They're both mentally ill women who need to be locked up forever

And medicated. Some day, I hope there is better treatment for people with mental illnesses, but there isn't today.

Andrea Yates could have possibly been treated successfully before it got that far, if her idiot husband had tried to get her some help. At the very least, he and the family could have helped out with child care, helped her get counseling and medication, and had her hopsitalized, if necessary.

I don't know much about the other case.

[amazona]

40. andrea yates received a great deal of care

See my above post. For some reason, the myth has gained currency that Yates was denied care when she received years of treatment for her severe depression, and she was taking a new prescription combining two SSRIs that she had started just two weeks before the killing. I hate to say it, but I think the media which gets a fair amount of advertising from Big Pharma has deliberately misled a lot of well-meaning people as to the amount of care Yates received. It is well-documented that she was receiving treatment. The jury was not properly informed that in some rare cases, people on SSRIs will commit extreme acts of violence they wouldn't normally performed.

[chimpy the poopthrower]

31. In Texas?

Is Tyler in Texas?

[redqueen]

46. Yes, this one is

Beautiful rose festival every year.

[Ilsa]

15. Her diagnosis is schizophrenia and psychosis, not just

postpartum depression. She has very complicated mental health problems that are difficult to treat under the best of circumstances.

Fact is, she had problems identified but they weren't taken seriously enough. The system and her family failed this woman and her children.

[Gin]

16. He isn't "normal".....right after the tragdy he was on TV doing interviews

he needs to be checked before he marries again and brings more kids in this world.

[SoCalDem]

44. He and his "girlfriend" already HAVE had a baby

..

The really sad thing in this whole mess, is that Andrea should NEVER EVER have been l;eft alone with those kids..NOT FOR A MINUTE..

The casual way that "help" was provided , was a contributing factor.

She was sick enough, often enough, to have needed custodial care..She was in NO shape to BE a custodial parent..

Her husband was not some dummy.. He had to have known what shape she was in, and if she was not able to practice birth control..he should have..

In a way, I almopst wish they would let her starve herself if she wants to die.. Why pay to warehouse this pathetic woman? She will never get out of jail.. Keeping her alive (against her wishes) is only to torture her and watch her suffer... Nothing will bring back the kids..nothing can be "made okay".. If she wants to die (and I think she does), I say let her..

[redqueen]

47. Many mentally ill people are suicidal

should we let them kill themselves too? Stop putting them in hospitals and giving them treatment for depression?

Or is this more of a mercy thing, since she's obviously so guilt-ridden about her psychotic act?

[SoCalDem]

49. Mercy..

I had a major depression a few years back, and even though I was suicidal, I was, luckily, too depressed to do anything rash.. That's how depressed I was.. I couldn't muster enoough energy to do anything about my situation..

Forcefeeding that woman so that she can "live" for years ..serves no purpose.. There is no "rehabbing" her..she's not going to ever get out..

She realizes now, what she did, and if SHE wants to starve herself to end it, I say let her..

Keeping her alive, and locked up for 50 years serves NO purpose

[redqueen]

20. It's called "Postpartum Psychosis"

Look it up.

on your vengeful desires to punish the mentally ill.

[AngryAmish]

18. The insanity defense is more tricky than it seems

Every criminal is "crazy", ie who would knock over a gas station for thirty dollars when a person could go to jail for fifteen years?

The vast majority of criminals are REALLY stupid and have poor impulse control.

Anyway, to prove insanity in Texas, if I recall correctly, one must have no idea that one's actions are wrong under the law. Yeates confessed that she knew that killing the kids was wrong under the law but she figured that they were better off dead at an innocent age before she screwed up their lives and lead them into sin. By knowing it was wrong she missed the legal window and off to jail she goes.

[Bridget Burke]

19. Andrea Yates had less skillful legal counsel

The Tyler woman who got sentenced to psychiatric care had a richer husband. And he was at home when it happened.

[redqueen]

22. TX is aware of the ridiculous insanity defense rules

It's being addressed, but ever so s...l...o...w...l...y

[AngryAmish]

25. Most insanity laws are really flawed

For example, many times people in full blown paranoid schizophrenic delusions do not qualify under the law. But those people are the most "crazy" on a gut level and probably the least responsible morally.

I think that there needs a major re-thinking of the insanity defense in this country. And I am always right.

[ocean girl]

26. Pathetic how unenlightened this country is about mental illness...

especially when we have a mentally ill President.

[chimpy the poopthrower]

32. Poor impulse control is not a mental illness.

And knowing that "one's actions are wrong under the law" is a poor definition of legal insanity.

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[chimpy the poopthrower]

41. Speaking of "poor impulse control"...

EDITED

I was responding to post 18:

"Every criminal is 'crazy'...The vast majority of criminals are REALLY stupid and have poor impulse control."


AngryAmish, I think we agree for the most part. My point was that it takes a lot more than "poor impulse control" to qualify for an insanity defense. It belittles real mental illness to equate it with something like "poor impulse control." I believe Andrea Yates was truly mentally ill. But the poorly designed TX legal system prevented her from using an insanity defense.

[rocktivity]

29. Shouldn't that be "the depth of despair and desparation

over her MURDERING her children"?

She had the options of leaving her marriage, leaving her church, even using birth control. And her husband didn't help at all by keeping her homebound and pregnant. The children weren't the only ones who were murdered that day--so was the super-religious supermom that Andrea no longer wanted to be.


rocknation

[Bridget Burke]

37. Andrea Yates didn't have a church to leave

She was raised Catholic & he was some kind of Protestant who got his particular religious ideas off some internet preacher. After the children died, an area minister volunteered his church for the funeral, but he hadn't known the family previously. Churches do have social purposes. Mothers' day out, nosey church ladies, etc. But Rusty Yates chose to go it alone.

Deanna Laney, the Tyler mother who crushed her children with rocks, sang in the choir in her brother's church & was well known in the community. She had no history of severe mental problems--as Yates did--but was sentenced to psychiatric care instead of prison.

The article points out that when Andrea Yates begins feeling "better" she realizes the truth of the situation & does, indeed know what happened. I think psychosis somewhat limits one's "options".

[rocktivity]

42. The Internet preacher is who I was referring to

As you've just proved, he hasn't got the only church on the face of the earth. If Andrea had gotten away from him or her husband, maybe she wouldn't have concluded that the only way to save herself was by eliminating her children. I never bought into her "I was doing God's work" defense--I think simply she wanted her pain to stop.


rocknation

[redqueen]

48. If she had not been mentally unbalanced

perhaps your solutions might have been realistic in her situation.