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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 04:38 AM
Original message
Stringent gun-control law goes into effect in Brazil
Monday, July 19, 2004 - Page updated at 12:00 A.M.

Stringent gun-control law goes into effect in Brazil

By Henry Chu
Los Angeles Times


RIO DE JANEIRO, Brazil To live in this city and other urban areas of Brazil is to hear the frequent rat-a-tat-tat of gunfire. As many as 20 million firearms are in circulation in this nation of 180 million people, who suffer from one of the highest rates of gun deaths in the world.

Now, under a new law hailed by supporters as the most sweeping gun-control measure in South America, only Brazilians with valid reasons police and security guards, for example are allowed to carry firearms in public.

Ordinary citizens who own guns either must register their weapons, turn them in or face jail time.

Proponents of the law, which went into effect this month, see it as a badly needed step toward ridding this country of weapons too easily acquired and too often used to kill.
(snip/...)

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/20019...
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donsu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 10:28 AM
Response to Original message
1. good for Brazil - wish we had the same and more
nt
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DoNotRefill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 10:32 AM
Response to Original message
2. Hmmm....isn't Brazil the country....
Edited on Mon Jul-19-04 10:35 AM by DoNotRefill
that had cops "moonlighting" as death squads against homeless kids? Somehow, I don't see giving the deathsquads a monopoly on the legal use of force will help things...

Anybody care to wager what the result will be? I'd bet that crime will INCREASE. It did in England after they banned guns...
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Briar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. But not *because* we banned guns
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DoNotRefill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #4
14. correct me if i'm wrong here...
but since guns were all but banned in England, hasn't England's gun crime rate gone through the roof, with illegal guns now being seen as a status symbol among criminals?

Prohibition has never worked. Alcohol, drugs, guns, it doesn't matter. If there's a demand, criminals will provide the supply.
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Amarant Donating Member (98 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. You would be wrong
I notice you change your argument from above. Notice how england has banned guns, yet somehow does not have death squads?

And no - gun crime rate has not increased as you suggest.
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DoNotRefill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. England didn't have many death squads before they banned guns....
except, of course, for their official death squads that hunt the PIRA folks...

Banning guns doesn't automatically create government sanctioned death squads. But if there already are government sanctioned death squads, disarming their victims makes the victims safer exactly how?

Who polices the police?
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DoNotRefill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. oh, as for gun crime not going up, these suggest otherwise...
Edited on Mon Jul-19-04 10:25 PM by DoNotRefill
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2069400.stm

"The number of crimes involving firearms in the West Midlands has risen significantly, according to new figures.

During the year 2001-2002 offences involving firearms went up by 49% to a total of 2,260 compared to the previous 12 months. "

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/3043701.stm

"Alan Green, deputy chief constable of Greater Manchester Police (GMP) said police bosses were "burying their head in the sand" if they did not think firearms crime a problem in their area.

Mr Green's warning comes after murders doubled in Nottinghamshire as gun crime increased last summer.

Mr Green said: "Gun crime, impacting particularly on our black communities, has spread across this country like a cancer." "

http://newswww.bbc.net.uk/1/hi/uk/3868411.stm

"The debate is being held against a backdrop of a growing number of gun offences in England and Wales.

Over the past five years the number of firearms-related injuries and fatalities have risen dramatically."


Please note: These are all from BBC, NOT a partisan organization on this issue. It sounds like THEY think gun crime has gone up dramatically, and these are all stories published well AFTER the British gun ban went into effect (1997, with the earliest article here being 2002)
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biftonnorton Donating Member (187 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 10:54 AM
Response to Original message
3. Good For Brazil! Others Should Follow Suit!
If more countries banned guns we'd have an easier time occupying them. It sucks to have to worry about insurgents and other citizens being able to defend their cities.
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Briar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 11:07 AM
Response to Original message
5. In Turkey today
Man convicted of toddler killing

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/3904517.stm


A Turkish man has been jailed for 36 years after being found guilty of killing a Scottish toddler.

Two-year-old Alistair Grimason was shot while sleeping in his pram on 7 July last year in a caf in Foca.

Daimi Akyuz had denied intentionally shooting the toddler but was found guilty by a judge.

....


David and Ozlem Grimason, from East Kilbride, have been campaigning for Turkey to tighten its gun laws since their son's death.
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JayS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 11:15 AM
Response to Original message
6. Sounds like our government. Pass laws that only the...
...law-abiding will follow? Sure. Examine the reasons WHY some people are violent and what the CAUSE of this is? No way.
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THUNDER HANDS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. technically
only law-abiding folks follow laws anyway. So why have laws at all?
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JayS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Where would we be without any laws at all? How would...
...society express what is expected from its citizenry? How would we punish those that do not live up to this expectation?
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biftonnorton Donating Member (187 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. I recommend dark, menacing glances
Edited on Mon Jul-19-04 12:12 PM by biftonnorton
for those who are ne'er-do-wells.
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JayS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. But I do this to everyone; it is part of my persona. :) n/t
n/t
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FeebMaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 02:04 PM
Response to Original message
11. I'm sure all of Brazil's problems will vanish overnight. (nt)
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Zynx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. I detect a healthy dose of sarcasm.
;-)
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FeebMaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. I'm sure all those people
running around with guns and shooting people and otherwise doing unpleasant things with them will dutifully turn their guns in or throw them into a river or something. I'm sure without their guns they'll stop doing unpleasant things like raping, robbing, and killing too.
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BayCityProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. they are
probably only grabbing everyones guns now because peasants have been rising up lately and taking land instead of waiting for land reform. The workers party sold them out.
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DoNotRefill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Isn't that always the way....
gun control is ALWAYS at least one of two things....it's either racist or classist. Often, it's BOTH.
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manic expression Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 08:01 PM
Response to Original message
17. Has anyone seen
"City of God"? The amount of guns portrayed in that movie is stunning. It is true that the police may be able to be more brutal...however I think that it is possible for police to limit their aggressiveness now that the number of lethal weapons will go down. If you look at it from another perspective, people who are forced to live in such conditions will commit a crime, whether they have a .45 or their bare hands. If it is necessary, people will use blowguns in hold-ups to ensure that their family can eat. I think attacking poverty is a much better solution to the entire problem.
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DoNotRefill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-04 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. uh huh....now that the police don't have to fear effective resistance...
I'm SURE they'll be nice and respect people's human rights....

Criminals will ALWAYS be able to get guns. If they can smuggle drugs, they can smuggle guns too, right?
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JayS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-04 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #19
22. hehe :)
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