Vandals deface Jewish graves in NZ

[Jim Sagle]

Fri 16 July, 2004 02:32

WELLINGTON (Reuters) - Swastikas and Nazi slogans have been gouged around Jewish graves in New Zealand, a day after it imposed diplomatic sanctions on Israel over two suspected Israeli spies who tried to obtain a passport by fraud.

Sixteen graves were attacked overnight in the Jewish part of a cemetery in Wellington that dates to the 1880s, a city council spokesman said

"Someone's used some sort of stick or tool to gouge swastikas into the grass around the graves. Words like 'Sieg Heil' have been scratched into the footpath," he said on Friday.

<snip>

The head of the New Zealand Jewish Council said the desecration of the graves was linked to the passport case and the resulting sanctions against Israel.

More at http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsPackageArticle.jhtml?type=worldNews&storyID=548145§ion=news

[drdon326]

1. Lemme guess......anti-zionism??

sickening.

[oldhat]

7. Yes

When neo-Nazis spraypaint swastikas on Jewish graves, that's just anti-Zionism, not anti-Semitism.

/typical fringe DU poster.

[maddezmom]

2. sad state of affairs

:shrug:

[whosinpower]

3. I read somewhere

Of a cemetary defacement here in Canada - the story was BURIED when it finally turned out not to be anti-semitism, but a prank pulled by the groundskeepers son.

[maddezmom]

4. here's a link to similar story in France

After fake antisemitic attack, sympathy becomes criticism

http://www.clevelandjewishnews.com/articles/2004/07/15/news/world/ahoax0716.txt

[nodehopper]

17. what does "fake" antiseitism mean?

If someone puts swastikas around Jewish graves, no matter who it is, it's an act of anti-semitism

[CPops57]

40. Example of "Fake anti-semitism"....

In the past I've read of people (some Jewish, some not Jewish) that have been caught creating fake anti-semitic incidents for various reasons.

(One example I've heard of: Spray painting the hood of their own car with a swastika and going to the police and claiming it was an anti-semitic attack.)

You read of these sorts of incidents from time to time. Mostly I think people with psychological disorders who crave attention commit this sort of fraud.

[rooboy]

5. Interesting timing. n/t

[CHIMO]

6. Attack on Jewish cemetery in NZ linked to passport plot

A Jewish cemetery has been desecrated in Wellington, New Zealand's capital, in an attack linked by community leaders to the backlash from a false passport plot involving suspected Mossad agents.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,1263250,00.html

Seems like timing might be a part of it.

[NashVegas]

9. I Just Read the Article

and something smells funny.

You're a NZ'er and you heard about this and you're pissed about political operatives in your country, which just severed diplomatic relations with the country whose secret agents were doing odd things. You:

A) Organize a protest outside said offending nation's embassy.
B) Send emails and call your representatives to congratulate them on their good sense.
C) Knock over some gravestones in the local cemetary and paint rude, clichéd symbols.

[RowWellandLive]

11. Guess the Jews must have done it

Yeah it smells fishy. Those nasty Jews, they are quite sneaky. No sympathy here.

What a thread.

[Jim Sagle]

12. I tried.

;(

[ex_jew]

8. Maybe attempting to steal the passports was a BAD IDEA

Maybe refusing to accept responsibility when your spies are caught is another BAD IDEA.

And maybe identifying scratches in some dirt or grass with the Holocaust is another BAD IDEA, particularly when they seem to be in response to gross behavior by another country. Some things may be better passed over in silence.

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[wordout]

13. or..

maybe he's read Arthur Koestler?

[Cassandra]

14. Defiling a cemetary is a bad idea

Blaming the dead is an even worse idea. Please explain to me what a Jewish cemetary has to do with suspected Mossad agents.

[Darranar]

15. Well, the Mossad is an institution of the so-called "Jewish state"...

which, if it is true that the motive was in fact that particular incident, is probably why the connection was made.

That sort of equation is disgusting regardless of who makes it; the Israeli government does not represent the Jews of the world, though it does claim to, and even if it did it still would be unjust to punish anyone but the guilty. This attack was certainly anti-semitic, immoral, unjustified, and despicable.

[drdon326]

27. "So called Jewish State" ??

whats next, darranar.........ZIONIST ENTITY?

[Shadder]

20. Nothing at all

My website:

http://www.savinggraves.org

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LivingInTheBubble]

16. Suspicious

As others have said, why would this happen.

Looks like someone is deliberately setting the scene for complaints about "anti-semitism", then they can try and paper over the damage caused by the spying.

Its like when a kid does something bad and starts crying to get some sympathy.

[nonbelief]

19. Think about it

It takes one anti-semitic asshole to go to a cemetary in New Zealand and knock over headstones and paint swastikas.


It takes an entire nation's (Israel's) intelligence service to send agents to a friendly country (New Zealand) and attempt to subvert its passport system for unknown but potentially damaging reasons.

Was the anti-semitic asshole wrong for desecrating graves? Of course?

Does this mean the New Zealand government is wrong for standing up to the Israeli government for its disgusting actions? Of course not.

Imagine someone in the U.S government actually had the balls to do something about the actions of Israeli intelligence services in the U.S.A..

[gottaB]

21. Kiwis ought to be ashamed

Israel's underhanded foreign policy is no excuse for this sort of thing, and Helen Clark shouldn't be brushing it aside so lightly.


Some more stories:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,1263291,00.html

http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/spages/452378.html

[nonbelief]

23. Why should Kiwis be ashamed?

Why should an entire nation be ashamed of the actions of a brain-dead individual acting on his own behalf?

Where's the call for Israelis to be ashamed for the disgusting actions of its government?

[gottaB]

25. I think I made my view clear

They ought to be ashamed because their prime minister isn't regarding anti-semitism in New Zealand as a serious problem.

Israel's misconduct is another subject altogether.

[nonbelief]

26. You've got it wrong...

One idiot going into a cemetary and defacing headstones does not mean there's a problem with anti-semitism in New Zealand!

There are more serious issues for the Prime Minister of New Zealand to consider than vandalism in a graveyard. For example, a supposedly friendly country has attempted to subvert New Zealand's passport system.

[gottaB]

28. Would you agree that the perp(s) are anti-semites?

Would you agree that the crime is anti-semitic?

[rman]

29. how do you know?

what's the evidence that anti-semitism is the motivation?

[gottaB]

32. Swastikas and Nazi slogans

In legal terms, I think we're actually talking about intention, not motive. There's no doubt that desecrating a cemetary with Nazi symbols is intentionally anti-semitic.

[drdon326]

33. NOT related to anything here....

but I've noticed at du at other times that....

anti-black racism.....unacceptable(and rightfully so)
anti-gay..............unacceptable (and rightfully so)
anti-feminist..........unacceptable (and rightfully so)
anti-semitism........."well, is it really anti-semitism?"

again to prevent confusion it is not related to any specific post in this thread.

[nonbelief]

34. Of course

Of course the vandalism of Jewish graves was anti-semitic! But how do you convert a single instance of vandalism, most likely committed by one or two morons, as a serious problem of anti-semitism in New Zealand? How can you suggest that such an incident should bring shame on an entire population?

It's not as if the government sent in officials to vandalise jewish graves, for pete's sake!

It's not as if jews are being rounded up, systemically harrassed, prevented from operating businesses or attending schools or anything else. Neighbors aren't attacking neighbors. Mrs Gudnick is still attending bingo with her gentile friends on Wednesday night, and most Kiwis couldn't give a frig how you do or don't worship the god of your choice.

The graves in a single cemetary were vandalised and you attempt to turn it into a frigging pogrom.

Enough already!

[gottaB]

35. Perhaps it's a matter of style, but you seem pretty hot about it

I'll tell you a little something about where I'm coming from. We've got neo-Nazis where I live, and it's nothing to be proud of. I've seen with my own eyes those movements grow from scattered acts of vandalism to a movement with organization, media, recruitment drives and a capacity for terrifying violence.

And on the federal level, our Attorney General is a complete disgrace. He doesn't take hate crimes seriously, even when they involve weapons of mass destruction.

If New Zealand hasn't experienced this kind of neo-Nazi bullshit historically, count yourselves lucky. I would have thought there might be a reason for New Zealand's relative inexperience with neo-Nazis, something to do with evolved political culture perhaps--but one tends to romanticize such things from afar. In the future I'll be more careful about holding New Zealand to such high standards.

[nonbelief]

36. You are mistaken

Firstly, I'm not a New Zealander. Just because I'm defending the 4 million-plus New Zealanders who didn't vandalize a Jewish headstone last week from your slurs, doesn't mean I'm a New Zealander.

I'm just much closer to New Zealand than you are, and probably unlike you,I know more about the country than the fact that the Lord of the Rings films were made there.

The single piece of evidence you use to tar the entire New Zealand population with the anti-semitic brush is that some headstones in a single graveyard were vandalized by person or persons unknown.

Your reaction to such a relatively minor occurance either suggests you have evidence of other recent examples of New Zealand anti-semitism of which the rest of the planet is unaware, or you are overly-eager to kick kiwis at the moment...

Which is it?

[gottaB]

39. Consider me a little less eager to kick Kiwis this very moment

eom

[AlienGirl]

37. "Supposedly friendly country"

Unfortunately, Israel has been subjected to so many sneaky, underhanded acts of espionage against it by its supposed "allies" that I'm not surprised Israeli agents don't always count on the open cooperation of countries that support it in public.

As an example, the US and Great Britain have been known to leak information to countries Israel was at war with--giving away Israeli troop movements and such. The US in particular pays public lip-service to being Israel's ally, but then sells Israeli secrets for oil. There's even a level of secrect access in the US intelligence community that specifically excludes Jewish americans, under the assumption that they will leak secrets to Israel. (Google NSA plus "Jew room" for articles.)

Tucker

[nonbelief]

41. What do the U.S and Britain have to do with it?

I notice that nowhere in your post did you accuse New Zealand of committing acts against Israel.

Israel was supposedly a friendly country towards New Zealand until it committed an unprovoked attack upon New Zealand's soverignty by attempting to steal New Zealand passports for unknown reasons.

You decide to bring The U.S and Britain into the debate for no good reason.

[Walt Starr]

22. Israel does some stupid shit and violates international law

and it opens up the way for New Zealand Nazis to blame the actions of Israel on New Zealand Jews. It just gave them an excuse to express their anti-semitism.

I despise Israel, but I think I hate New Zealand Nazis much more.

[rman]

30. how do you know New Zealand Nazis did it?

why convict without evidence?

[Walt Starr]

31. Hmmm, it happened in New Zealand

and there were swastikas all over the stones.

New Zealand Nazi or Nazis did it. No doubt about that.

[not systems]

24. a despicable act

I hope they catch and punish the person or persons responsible.

I also hope they press the case of the passports, no country should
be above the law even Israel.

[CPops57]

38. I'd put money on it being committed by Israeli agents.

I'd put money on the defilement of the Jewish cemetary being committed by Israeli agents to take attention away from the spying incident in NZ and so they can play for some sympathetic public relations in the media.

I may be wrong, but thats my suspicion.