27 Fires Linked To Oil Changes In Honda CR-V

[RamboLiberal]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A37794-2004Jul8?language=printer

At least 27 Honda CR-V sport-utility vehicles from the 2003 and 2004 model years burst into flames shortly after getting their first oil changes, according to records provided to the federal government by the manufacturer.

While no injuries were reported, many of the vehicles were destroyed, usually with 10,000 miles or fewer on their odometers.

The National Highway Transportation Safety Administration investigated the situation and concluded July 1 that the cases were the fault of dealerships or others who improperly installed oil filters. The agency agreed with American Honda Motor Co. that oil from the filters most likely leaked onto the vehicles' hot exhaust systems, quickly igniting -- in some cases as the owners drove the small SUVs home from being serviced.

"We consulted with Honda. Honda concluded it was a technician's error, and they have taken steps to make sure service technicians who work on this vehicle understand that they need to be particularly diligent when they replace the oil filter," NHTSA spokesman Rae Tyson said.

But auto safety advocates say they're dismayed that the agency didn't take a stronger stand.

[physioex]

1. I have been repairing cars for many years...

I am not sure how this can be blamed on the mechanic. When you change the oil in a car, it is bound to spill in various locations such as the exhaust. What they are doing does not address the problem as there are thousands of shops out there that may not be aware of this information. The thing about the Japanese is that they will never admit a design flaw when it happens, Toyota was notorious for this with their sludge "gel" problems. Sounds more like a design flaw in the vechicle...

[burrowowl]

2. It sure does

sound like a design flaw. Oil gets spilled on engine and can even leak from engine and it doesn't go up in flames.

[physioex]

3. Hmm...

I agree with you first statement. Oil is combustible when exposed to heat, there is no way to change that law. Once the oil change is performed, oil should never leak from any areas of the engine in large quantities, and I don't think that is happening here. The problem comes when manufacturers route exhaust manifolds and exhaust pipes in a place where oil can collect during an oil change. This oil will catch fire as the manifold heats up.

It may be simple fix such as a guard around the exhaust manifold so the oil doesn't collect. And I think this problem can be easily corrected in the car. The problem is getting them to do it....

[Gold Metal Flake]

4. Well, I'd like to see how this could happen.

I'll stroll the parking lot at work and see if someone has one of these.

Now, it's not fer nuthin' that Gearhead is a part of my screen name.
There is not a single system on a car that I am not intimately familiar with.

Thinking about this, I can only imagine that the filter is above some portion of the exhaust, and that it is a bit tight. That is, the area where the filter lives is cramped, and getting it out once it is unscrewed might be difficult. The filter will retain 1/2 to 1 quart of oil, depending on size. This oil will leak from the end of the filter once it is removed unless you keep the open end up. So I figger that old earl will drain onto the exhaust components. This is a bit of a design flaw. Hell, getting the filter out of my 1981 Accord was a bit of a struggle, and I don't have hands as large as Karen Hughes. I had to take it out from the top, after moving aside the AC hose. It would not come out from underneath. Had to be quick to avoid spillage.

But, I must say, not cleaning up any spillage is a major mistake by the technician. Major. You don't have to be ASE certified to know to clean up any fluid spillage especially around exhaust components. Folks have set their cars on fire setting valve lash with the engine running, the oil flying off the rockers and getting on the headers and FLASH! Smart guys cut the top off an old valve cover and clip on deflectors to prevent this. Grease monkeys don't.

Your average quicky oil change place will most likely not clean up the spilled oil. They WILL be so kind as to strip the threads on your drain plug, though. These days engine compartments are very tight and very crowded, so I am not surprised that it would be difficult to remove the filter. I still gotta say that it's the guy changing the oil who has the responsibility to observe the victim, er, patient, assess the difficulty, and engage in a little preventitive work area preperation by shoving a rag below the filter to catch errant oil, and then make sure everything is clean before running the car, checking for leaks, and returning the keys to the service manager. Unfortunately, it seems as though many of todays "technicians" were schooled in Florida or sumptin'.

[physioex]

7. I agree with you completely...

But not every person who changes the oil on these cars will be aware of this. There is wide spectrum of people who will be changing the oil on these cars from the DIY, quickie oil change, to ASE Certified. Mistakes are bound to happen, shouldn't Honda put some type of shroud to prevent oil from collecting, it would be a simple fix and a small price to pay to be more secure...

[Gold Metal Flake]

14. Any employed tech should be able to complete the job.

That means cleaning up after yourself.

However, I suppose it's up to Honda now to pick up the slack. I do think that engineering that would create this sitch is sloppy. I think that packaging cost overruled better layout, but I still have not put my eyes on the terrain under dat-dere hood.

I suppose a little shield to urge spilled oil over the exhaust would do it. It's gotta be attached somehow to existing engine components in a secure manner, and it's gotta be easy to install, and it's gotta be packaged to be shipped to a lot of dealers, and a recall would have to occur, and it would have to be installed at the dealer cuz you can't make such a part for something like this without admitting that the lack of the part constitutes a dangerous flaw, and it could cost a ton of money for all of the above and for some settlements, and naturally run-on sentences will be written much to the general consternation of the reading public.

Not that I care much about Honda, just thinking it through. Sounds like poor engineering to me.

[fortyfeetunder]

5. Not the only hazard on CR-V's

there is another CR-V recall brewing on airbag wiring...

[AlCzervik]

6. Thats good to know

beacuse my friend bought a new one about 6 months ago and she never has a chance to watch the news, i will call her in the morning and let her know.

[tekriter]

13. I just got that in the mail yesterday...

it says that improperly installed airbag wiring might cause the airbag to inflate "improperly" - which might mean "NOT".

[truthisfreedom]

8. just goes to show you. don't design a car where the extremely hot parts

are right next to the extremely flammable parts. even when you're trying to capture a segment of the gluttonous US SUV market and you're in a big hurry.

[physioex]

9. Mmm...bit simplistic...

What do you suggest give ample room? Not possible, there are lots of things crammed into modern cars and engineers must take into account accident safety, fuel economy, and aerodynamics. Environmental laws require the auto manufacturers put the catalytic converter as close to the engine so it can heat up quickly and perform its function. Front wheel drive makes it worse having a transmission and engine underneath the hood. There isn't a whole lot of room when you think about it.

As far as this problem is concerned, it probably has a simple fix..

[truthisfreedom]

11. i guess i'd suggest keeping the oil and gas away from the exhaust manifold

is that too much to ask?

[physioex]

12. No it's not...

Honda needs to fess up and fix it. It has nothing to with gasoline, rather motor oil...

[sweetheart]

10. i've put 70K miles on my 2000 CR-V

... and this is news to me. I'll pop the hood and have a look what
this hubub is about. The car has been really excellent and the
best of the 14 cars i've owned in this life.

My only complaints are the cap came off the rear windshield wiper
and the nut is rusting. The rear mudflap is loose and comes loose
too easily if you use the car for more serious 4WD work.

The rear suspension should jack up under load, but rather when there
is heavy things in the back, the car slumps down and the rear wheels
change to a non-vertical angle.

The driving controls are somewhat poorly situated, but this has
appearantly been fixed on later versions.

[dbt]

15. Here's hoping that Honda can learn a bit from Toyota's MISTAKE.

Toytota, with its much-ballyhooed reputation for quality, chose to LIE to its customers about its DEFECTIVE ENGINES in its 1998 Sienna vans. Toyota, for all of its boasting about what a GREAT PRODUCT it ALLEGEDLY had, chose to accuse ITS OWN CUSTOMERS of negligence over such an elementary thing as changing engine oil.

About 3,000 of Toyota's V-6 Sienna van engines in its 1998 models had A DEFECT that made the engine oil turn into something that looked like black Jell-0. This occurred well within the factory warranty, YET TOYOTA WOULD NOT HONOR ITS OWN WARRANTY ON ITS OWN DEFECTIVE ENGINES.

Toyota LIED TO and STONEWALLED every customer who got taken in by the LIE of TOYOTA QUALITY and bought a 1998 Sienna. We ALL had to shell out our OWN MONEY to replace the piece-of-shit engines that Toyota sold us UNDER FALSE PRESTENSES.

Then, Toyota offered us a "good-faith" settlement. They were willing to reimburse us for the expenses we incurred in replacing the engines they sold us--BUT WITHOUT ANY ADMISSION OF WRONGDOING.

Honda has a huge marketing opportunity here. Burn in HELL, Toyota!

:nuke:
dbt

[rppper]

17. Honda had a silent recall in the early 80's with the V4........

...line of engines in their motorcycles. at the time the V4 was a revolution in motorcycle engines...they were lightweight, 16 valve, dual overhead cam motors that produced incredible horsepower at high revs but ran as smooth as silk. in the 81 and 82 versions of the Sabre and Magna, Honda mechanics were noticing that after about 11k miles or so, the cams in the engine were being ground down very prematurely, particularly in the hot selling V45(750cc) and V65(1100cc)motors. the problem was the cams were simply not getting enough oil fed to them. the cure was to add another oil line to feed the cams more oil and keep them better lubricated. by 1984, Honda ordered it's mechanics to install additional oil lines on all V30(500cc), V45 and V65 engines when the bikes were brought in for their 5k mile service check at no cost to the customer, as well as to retrofit the older models of the V4 motor. it wasn't even included on the bill...one of the biggest recalls in motorcycle history that never saw the light of day(Honda sold millions of V4 equipped motorcycles from the sabre and magna models to the hurricane and VFR sport bike models)

[BraveDave]

16. The report says:

"The National Highway Transportation Safety Administration investigated the situation and concluded July 1 that the cases were the fault of dealerships or others who improperly installed oil filters.

Having quite a bit of shop experience, I can see how it is possible. Although usually you know right away if the filter is not seated right or missing the gasket. The latter being reeeal messy.