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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-07-04 04:43 AM
Original message
Sex claims 'bankrupt US archdiocese'
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3872083.stm

Wednesday, 7 July

A Roman Catholic archdiocese in the US is to declare bankruptcy because it cannot meet the cost of claims by people allegedly abused by its priests.

The Archdiocese of Portland, Oregon, will be the first in the US to do so.

The action will suspend the start of a civil trial of a priest accused of molesting more than 50 boys.

Other US Roman Catholic dioceses are also facing bankruptcy, or have had to sell property, to meet the cost of abuse claims brought against priests.

<snip>

Boston, one of the largest archdioceses in America and the place where the sex abuse scandal began more than two years ago, opted to sell property instead.

Throughout the US, sex abuse cases have cost more than $650m but the Church is also paying a heavy price in lost prestige and damage to its moral authority.





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truthisfreedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-07-04 04:48 AM
Response to Original message
1. can't say as i feel too bad for the church. the parishoners? sad for them.
what did they do to deserve this creepy bunch of weirdos?
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sniffa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-07-04 06:28 AM
Response to Reply #1
10. yeah, the poor things
wiLL have to find another church to give their money to.
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LibertyorDeath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-07-04 04:52 AM
Response to Original message
2. Good !

Reap what you sew
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Corby Donating Member (90 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-07-04 04:56 AM
Response to Original message
3. Save money...
stop molesting kids.

I've a hard time sympathizing with the RC on this one.
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-07-04 05:00 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. It seems they are using the bankruptcy
has an excuse to delay and drag out an ongoing case against one of their priests.

Maybe they should just sell off a few gold chalices or some property to pay off their debts to the victims of these horrible crimes?

In the meantime, have any of these pedophile priests been forced to leave the church or punished by the church in any significant way?


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Nevernose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-07-04 05:03 AM
Response to Original message
5. It's not pedophile priests who cost them this money
It's trying to cover it up that opens up the CC to huge penalty judgements.
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-07-04 05:23 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. My thoughts exactly
If the Church had immediately done something about the pedophiles, like defrocking them and sending them to treatment and/or the State's Attorney, then I would have more sympathy for them. But years and years of allowing this practice to continue....
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cliss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-07-04 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #7
36. Good point.
Don't look to me for any sympathy. The church knew what was going on, for decades. And by the way, guess who got a big promotion, now that he is in exile, in the Vatican City?

Reverend Bernard Lawless, that's who. The Pope himself gave him a big promotion.
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DarkPhenyx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-07-04 05:17 AM
Response to Original message
6. Time to start selling off the gold.
Sorry, I can't work up a big woo-hoo about this news.
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-07-04 06:06 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. Unfortunately the Catholic Church
is more concerned about protecting themselves and their pedophile priests, than they are in bringing criminals to justice and helping right the wrongs that have been done to the victims.

This latest ploy is beyond sickening.




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ChavezSpeakstheTruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-07-04 06:38 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. Ploy? You think filing for bankrupcy is a ploy?
Please.
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-07-04 06:44 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. You think the CC is broke?
Or that they don't have enough assets to sell off to settle these lawsuits?

Yes, in this case it is definitely a ploy.

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Baltimoreboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-07-04 06:48 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. The diocese is different from the entire church
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BlueCollar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-07-04 05:24 AM
Response to Original message
8. Time for tort reform?
After all, the repubs are big on that concept...
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ChavezSpeakstheTruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-07-04 06:37 AM
Response to Original message
11. What about all the elderly clergy who never harmed anyone?
What are they suposed to do?
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-07-04 06:47 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. Maybe these elderly clergy
who supposedly have never hurt anyone, should stand up and do what is right and demand that their pedophile brethren be punished appropriately?



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ChavezSpeakstheTruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-07-04 06:51 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. So they "supposedly" never hurt anyone - following your implied logic
every priest is a pedophile.
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-07-04 06:54 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. There are plenty of other ways to hurt people
like the pastor I had who was too hung over on my communion day to hold the chalice still. Maybe he never physically hurt anyone, but he sured ruined my day.

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Baltimoreboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-07-04 06:58 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. Poor boy
Priests are human. I guess you never learned that.
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-07-04 07:15 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. You mean they lied?
That's not what they told us when I was a kid. We were taught that the priests and nuns were god's representatives on earth. They were between us and god and in order to get to god, we had to go through them.

The clergy take vows and if they can not live up to those vows, then they should have the good graces to leave the clergy and go back to being mere mortal humans.




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Baltimoreboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-07-04 07:18 AM
Response to Reply #20
23. God's representatives, but not infallible
You expect perfection of others. That's a guaranteed way to be disappointed.
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-07-04 07:24 AM
Original message
Doesn't the pope claim to be infallible?
Isn't that one of the major tenets of the church? I know that that was one of the major beliefs that they tried to instill in us when I was in school. Don't worry, by the time I was seven, I had seen proof positive that they weren't.





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ChavezSpeakstheTruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-07-04 07:29 AM
Response to Original message
27. The dogma of papal infallibility only applies in matters of church
teaching. This is a common misconception of people who hate the church. No where does the church claim that any person is infallible and it would be naive to assume so.

I think the way you are approaching this is very black and white when it is a nuanced subject.

If you were told that the only way to God was through priests and nuns you were taught incorrectly and you should look at yourself because you believed it.
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impe Donating Member (185 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-07-04 08:25 AM
Response to Reply #27
31. Now wait a minute


...since priests according to the CC are able to give sacrements which are the staples of salvation (according to the church) and withhold them at will, as evidenced by the Kerry communion commotion, your position on the role of priests in service needs to be in line with church doctrine. You're almost sounding like a heretic.
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ChavezSpeakstheTruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-07-04 08:45 AM
Response to Reply #31
32. I don't see where you're coming from. How am I going out of line of
doctrine? Does church doctrine say that you can only be saved through priests? Have you read the Catechism of the Catholic Church?

How do I sound like a heretic?
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impe Donating Member (185 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-07-04 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #32
39. First of All

my latter comment was an attempt at humour. It looks like it did a fly-by. Secondly, yes I have read the catechism of the CC. Particularly, Chapter 2, Article 3, The Church, Mother, and Teacher.

Lastly, the act off transubstantiation per the Council of Trent, gives Priests unique abilities, hence the fear to be denied communion or last rites, etc. by a Priest.
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ChavezSpeakstheTruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-07-04 07:09 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. Well - seems like you have a very strong bias here
I'll keep that in mind as I read your posts.
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-07-04 07:17 AM
Response to Reply #19
22. May we then agree
Edited on Wed Jul-07-04 07:17 AM by DoYouEverWonder
to disagree.

It seems you have a strong bias has well?

Peace be with you.

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ChavezSpeakstheTruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-07-04 07:21 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. And also with you
As for myself - I belong to a wonderful parish with priests that I would trust my children with (if I had children). It pains me when I hear the blanket condemnations here.

That's all. Its sad to know that a small percentage of priests and Bishops are devastating the church in this country. Very sad.

I do not rejoice.
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JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-07-04 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #11
38. Didn't they have a responsibility to speak out, too?
I know what you're saying: I grew up with a wonderful pastor, who's since been forced into retirement, though he didn't want it. His bishop thinks he's too much of a maverick, I'd guess.

Anyway, I do hate to think of him in a bad state b/c of the bad behavior of others.

But where were all the whistleblowers and noisemakers when kids were being horribly harmed and bishops were looking the other way?

If the open-minded folks in the church hierarchy would speak up far more often -- on a host of subjects -- the church would find itself improving I think.
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-07-04 07:17 AM
Response to Original message
21. duplicate
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-07-04 07:24 AM
Response to Original message
25. Once again...
... churches act like businesses, have the priveleges of businesses, but are not taxed. It's time to treat churches like businesses because it is becoming hard to tell the difference between the two.
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Baltimoreboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-07-04 07:38 AM
Response to Reply #25
28. Not even close
Naturally, churches have some similarities. They transact business, hire and fire employees, pay bills, etc.

All the things a typical nonprofit does.
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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-07-04 07:27 AM
Response to Original message
26. Pulling an OJ
They want to save their "Heisman Trophies".

Apologies if this offends but that's how I see it.
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JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-07-04 08:02 AM
Response to Original message
29. It will be interesting to watch how the PR machine of the church plays
this. I suspect we'll hear a great deal about all the charitable work that won't get done now, all the poor parishioners w/o their church... Because those awful lawsuits are forcing them to this.

I hope no one is apt to buy the line. There are reasons for this situation: poor choices in who is accepted into seminary (including the horrible continuing refusal to ordain women), poor education of those in seminary, and most of all, absolute egotistical refusal of the bishops to address the situation. It's truly shameful.

Unfortunately, since simple human goodness seems to have no effect, perhaps hitting them hard in the pocketbook is the only way.
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bitchkitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-07-04 08:21 AM
Response to Original message
30. Born Catholic -
and I can't say I feel sorry for them. You'd think that Rome would come to the rescue; God knows they have enough money.
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elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-07-04 09:11 AM
Response to Reply #30
33. I read somewhere
That the assets of each Archdio. are held in the name of their Bishop. This keeps them all seperate, so the Vatican can cut 'em off like a green toe.

Anybody else hear that one?
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-07-04 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #33
34. Yes, something like that
That was the excuse they were using up in Boston when they started crying poor.
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DaveSZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-07-04 09:43 AM
Response to Reply #34
35.  "Time for tort reform?"
Ah, you may have nailed the real reason why the CC is backing Bush now.
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ChavezSpeakstheTruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-07-04 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #35
37. The CC is not backing Bush
They're not backing anyone

Don't believe the hype
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Moderator DU Moderator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-07-04 11:10 AM
Response to Original message
40. This is a duplicate
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