Army Plans Involuntary Call-Up of Thousands

[seemslikeadream]

By Will Dunham
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. Army is planning an involuntary mobilization of thousands of reserve troops to maintain adequate force levels in Iraq and Afghanistan, defense officials said on Monday.

The move -- involving the seldom-tapped Individual Ready Reserve -- represents the latest evidence of the strain being placed on the U.S. military, particularly the Army, by operations in those two countries.

Roughly 5,600 soldiers from the ready reserve will be notified of possible deployment this year, including some soldiers who will be notified within a month, said an Army official speaking on condition of anonymity.

A senior defense official said, "These individuals are being called back to fill specific shortages for specific jobs."

The official said the last time the Individual Ready Reserve, mainly made up of soldiers who have completed their active duty obligations, was mobilized in any significant numbers was during the 1991 Gulf War.

more
http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=5536115

[Hog lover]

1. just wait for the draft

if King George the Bush is re-coronated.

[kainah]

4. welcome, hog lover!!!!

I table in the Union at the University of WY each week with my peace group. In the summer, it's mainly summer "camps" of various kinds, so lots of high school students. Last week, we had about 12 teenage boys milling about. Their adult "minder" said, "Oh, they're all too young to vote." I said, "Unfortunately, they're the right age for the draft." INSTANTLY, I had full attention. Very, very interesting.

[Wind Dancer]

12. A scary thought!

Hog lover, welcome to DU!

:hi:

[jukes]

13. Hi, Hog lover

welcome aboard!




:hi:

[Scooter24]

15. Welcome :)

to DU!!! :toast:

[saigon68]

31. Welcome to DU

Glad to have you here :-) :-)

[seemslikeadream]

32. I live in a cornfield but you guys aren't talkin about hogs are ya?

Welcome Hog lover :hi:

[Tight_rope]

50. Welcome Hog Lover...I agree with you.

But I'm sure many would rather be jailed or they may go into hiding. I for one have gotten my passport together. I'm outta here.

[mike_c]

2. they're going to have to start sending people involuntarily...

...before the election. Bushco is getting desperate.

[kysrsoze]

14. Not true. The Iraqi people have their country back. It's all over.

Ha ha! :P

[Tight_rope]

52. Kysroze...you're alittle behind...they will start sending service people

to Iraq, who are retired or got out just because. It hit the news networks today.

[Corgigal]

3. during the 1991 Gulf War

I never heard of this happening during the Gulf War. I wonder if reuter asked "The Official" for some proof of this. I bet it happened during Vietnam though and they certainly didn't want to make that connection.

[Az_lefty]

30. The IRR callup did occur during the Gulf War.

We had several IRR's in our company and they were not happy to be there.

[hlthe2b]

5. Sure hope we don't have a major natural disaster....

Well be having to ask Iraqis for help!

[Media_Lies_Daily]

20. Like a major earthquake or a Cat 5 hurricane? I'm worried about that too.

[LoneStarBeaver]

6. They did sign on the dotted line...

How is it "involuntary" when they knew the consequences when they joined up? Being in the reserves does not make one free of obligations. If they had a problem with that they shouldn't have signed the contract (no whining).

[fsbooks]

7. and Bush was elected President.

5 votes to 4, fair and square.

[Wednesdays]

9. And I have a bridge to sell. Low price.

eom

[leesa]

10. Right.

I wonder if they were told they were going to die in order to steal Afghanistan land rights and Iraqi oil. I suppose they were.

[jukes]

11. well, it's because

recruiters lie, Beav. they either fail to mention the IRR clause, or they minimize it and tell you it never "really" happens.

they're as sleazy as used car salesmen or holyroller preachers, & they con 18 YO kids into signing their own death warrant. IF they're lucky & not maimed or disfigured into a ghost of society, living out a meager existence through the good graces of the caring VA hospital system & whatever faith-based charity swaps them an infested bed for accepting the myth of salvation.


when the elites start sending THEIR son's into the fire storm, then i'll have some respect for our ruling class. still won't trust the greedy, lying bastards, though.

[DeaconBlues]

26. How right you are

When kids sign up, they think they are just joining for 2,3, or 4 year hitches, then they will be civilians again. They never read the fine print about IRR, where they can be called up without warning for another few years after they finish with the service. I finished my 3 year term with the Army right before the first Iraq war, but was worried every day that I would be called up because I was in the IRR.

I betcha a good number of these people will be making a drive north to Canada.

[Tight_rope]

54. Yes...many will soon have to learn how to speak French or Spanish.

I can see it now. Mexico putting up bob-wire to keep Americans from entering Mexico....what a hoot...wish I knew how to draw...I would draw a cartoon of President Fox complaining about Americans who escape to Mexico to avoid having to go to Iraq and they are now stealing all of Mexicos low paying jobs.:beer:

[Malva Zebrina]

55. and they should

how many have families and little babies and obligations that are meaningful other than dying for the cowardly, the inept, the AWOL in time of war, George the little prick AWOL frat boy who is now getting off on sending our children to secure Halliburton's claims to anywhere in the world.

He is getting off on this.

This inept idiot, this ignoramus, this insane , childish, evil man is getting off on his power to send these reserves who have been actually discharged, to be putting themselves in harm's way to support his stupidity.

I do not believe this will be sustained.

How can it be? Unless these thousands actually have bought the Bush
AWOL bullshit and are willing to leave their babies in order to support an ignoramus who could not give a shit about them or their families but is really wired to assert his own power by using these as his pawns.

Imagine being a pawn of this stupid man who cannot even put a coherent sentence together without the aid of the ear plug?

It is time to stand up and challenge the idiot.

Jesus this is absolutely insane.

[seemslikeadream]

56. Thanks for all your money -- sorry about your kids

http://www.freewayblogger.com/

[Media_Lies_Daily]

17. They signed up to fight in LEGITIMATE wars, not wars that are based....

...on the pack of lies told by FratBoy and his NeoCon minions.

Additionally, FratBoy is NOT the legally elected president of this country...he's nothing more than a self-appointed tinhorn dictator.

By the way, when do YOU intend to sign up and volunteer for duty in the Middle East? No whining...let's see what kind of game YOU have.

[Malva Zebrina]

57. there is no "legitimate war"

and there cannot be a "legitimate war"

No one will ever invade this country> NO ONE.

All wars we engage in will be wars of empire.

That should be obvious by now.

There has not been a legitimate war since ww II.

All else is empire seeking and all who join our military to "defend our freedoms" are operating in a fog of delusion.

There can never be any country that will ever have the capacity to wage war on this country, invade it, occupy it and etc etc.etcl.

Never.

Logically then, anyone joining up is not joining up to defend this country, but are joining up for other reasons such as they would like to have an education but cannot afford it unless they are willing to die for it, or, actually believe the lie that we a vulnerable to attack from someone evil out of somewhere, and that we need huge military protection, even if it does mean that we will use our young to pre-emptively attack any country that an evil CIC, who was not elected and who is rather a stupid and dullwitted man, orders be done.

WE do not need this type of military.

We do not.

Do not teach your children that joinging up is brave and is noble. It cannot be, and will not be noble for many a year.,

All it is is pursuit of empire.

[BrotherBuzz]

21. IRR is distinctly different than the reserves....

The IRR is a distinctly different animal than the drilling reserves or National Guard. Those in the IRR are people who have completed their active-duty tours but are subject to involuntary recall for a certain number of years. For example, a soldier who serves four years on active duty remains in the IRR for another four years.

[Realityhack]

40. How is it involintary when....

Basicaly its involintary because most recruiters lie and cover up this fact. Just like they don't tell you how few people use the school money etc. There is a low likelyhood that any given recruit realizes this when they sign up. I think I even remember the millitary being suied recently over failure to disclose facts like this.

In addition these people have retired to civilian life. They don't train on weekends etc. like the reserves. So its not a bunch of reservists whining that they got called up. These guys are out. No commitments unless things get extreamly bad. Then suddenly its... they served their country for too few years so... YANK they are back in.

oh almost forgot... you have seen all the ads etc about 4 years and your out etc. right? Kind of false advertising don't you think?

RH

[thebaghwan]

8. Whoeeeeee! Welcome hog lover!!

n/t

[Scooter24]

16. I thought

that 5,600 is all the president could call up by law without Congressional approval? Maybe they wanted more, but were afraid to ask?

[Media_Lies_Daily]

19. Congress gave FratBoy a very wide latitude when they okayed this...

...fiasco. FratBoy can do just about anything he wants thanks to Congress. Like FratBoy said at least three times in public, "This would be a whole lot easier if this were a dictatorship".

[Miss Authoritiva]

18. Beware the (very) fine print.

"Sometimes there's a misperception by some of the individuals ... that 'I've done my obligation, I've been in the Army, thank you very much, and I'm done'. But you're not done," the official said.

So you served voluntarily in the U.S. army and were discharged. However, now you are subject to involuntary mobilization, which like a stop-loss order, is just another way of saying, "you've been drafted."

[Karenina]

22. A cold wind.

:kick:

[leftchick]

23. dumbass* 2004 = DRAFT 2005.....

Can any person with a functioning brain doubt it now?

[seemslikeadream]

24. look at the add I just found

at the Washington Post story
U.S. Hands Authority To Iraq Two Days Early

[leftchick]

80. That is nice seems...

except to have to look at that ugly mug of his. :p

[dusty64]

25. Involuntary? sounds

pretty much like a draft to me.

[seemslikeadream]

27. If this was our policy

[seemslikeadream]

28. U.S. Army plans to call up 6,500 reserve troops

Posted on Tue, Jun. 29, 2004

U.S. Army plans to call up 6,500 reserve troops

Los Angeles Times


WASHINGTON - For the first time since Operation Desert Storm, the Army plans to announce this week an involuntary mobilization of thousands of troops from the Individual Ready Reserve, the latest signal that the service is struggling to bolster ranks stretched thin by the global war on terrorism.

The move, which Army officials say is likely to involve notifying roughly 6,500 soldiers about a possible deployment, is meant to fill holes in active and reserve units preparing to go to Iraq and Afghanistan this fall and early next year.

The Individual Ready Reserve, or IRR, is a pool of roughly 118,000 former soldiers who are not members of a specific reserve unit, yet who have unexpired obligations to complete their military service. In some cases, they are soldiers who received honorable discharges before their commitment was scheduled to end and thus legally are bound to fulfill their contract if the Pentagon requires their services. Several thousand of these soldiers already are serving in Iraq, the majority of whom are volunteers.

http://www.grandforks.com/mld/grandforks/9036007.htm

[Corgigal]

29. For the first time since Operation Desert Storm

Again this notice. Does anyone remember the inactive reserve being activated during Desert Storm? I don't. If I'm correct they (media,DOD,chimps people) are making the claim that it ain't no big deal but I'm telling you it's a BIG damn deal and we are going to see thousands of people is the US get pissed off right now. No one ever thinks of becoming active and you are forced into this status just when you want to get out. The USAF during my time was 4 years active and 6 years inactive.

If anyone did hear of this happening , let me know. Methinks we might be getting played.

[seemslikeadream]

33. Come you masters of war

Come you masters of war
You that build all the guns
You that build the death planes
You that build the big bombs
You that hide behind walls
You that hide behind desks
I just want you to know
I can see through your masks

You that never done nothin'
But build to destroy
You play with my world
Like it's your little toy
You put a gun in my hand
And you hide from my eyes
And you turn and run farther
When the fast bullets fly

Like Judas of old
You lie and deceive
A world war can be won
You want me to believe
But I see through your eyes
And I see through your brain
Like I see through the water
That runs down my drain

You fasten the triggers
For the others to fire
Then you set back and watch
When the death count gets higher
You hide in your mansion
As young people's blood
Flows out of their bodies
And is buried in the mud

You've thrown the worst fear
That can ever be hurled
Fear to bring children
Into the world
For threatening my baby
Unborn and unnamed
You ain't worth the blood
That runs in your veins

How much do I know
To talk out of turn
You might say that I'm young
You might say I'm unlearned
But there's one thing I know
Though I'm younger than you
Even Jesus would never
Forgive what you do

Let me ask you one question
Is your money that good
Will it buy you forgiveness
Do you think that it could
I think you will find
When your death takes its toll
All the money you made
Will never buy back your soul

And I hope that you die
And your death'll come soon
I will follow your casket
In the pale afternoon
And I'll watch while you're lowered
Down to your deathbed
And I'll stand o'er your grave
'Til I'm sure that you're dead

[tlcandie]

34. They will be VERY unhappy, I would agree, but what about the

state-side jobs/careers and families they will be leaving behind? I'm sure many are having to declare bankruptcy and live with relatives, etc. in order to make ends meet on the meager salaries the military pays.

This won't be pretty.

[LynneSin]

35. you have GOT to be kidding me

do these people have a choice if they want to serve???

:shrug:

[seemslikeadream]

36. E-mail sparks reserve mobilization fears --- May 28, 2004

May 28, 2004
E-mail sparks reserve mobilization fears


by Sgt. Chuck Wagner
Pentagram staff writer


An e-mail forwarded 'round the Army is spreading rumors about involuntary mobilizations faster than Army officials can offer explanations.

The e-mail's attached document warns Soldiers in the Individual Ready Reserve the Army will involuntarily assign them to units deploying to Iraq or Afghanistan if they don't soon join a reserve or National Guard unit of their choice.

It is true the Army has mobilized IRR Soldiers -- at least four times since Sept. 11 in fact -- and the Army is approved to mobilize more. But the document's suggestion that joining a reserve or guard unit presents an alternative to possible service overseas is wrong.

The memo from a purported May 7 "formal announcement" states Soldiers who don't join willingly will be "slammed," implying they will be transferred to units chosen by the Army, likely going to Iraq or Afghanistan. Various other e-mail chains have splintered off from the original after troop leaders summarized the message for their Soldiers.






Stromvall said the document arose from a miscommunication at U.S. Army Reserve Headquarters in Atlanta, from where it was first sent out. He also said he knows of no factual basis for the 8,000-Soldier goal mentioned in the document.



There are several different manpower initiatives underway; none of which has a specific goal of filling 8,000 slots, according to Lt. Col. Burt Masters, Human Resources Command spokesperson in St. Louis.

Army active duty leadership recently involuntarily mobilized 239 IRR Soldiers in critically short military occupational specialties to active Army units.

Meanwhile, 1,900 Soldiers with at least six months left on their military service obligation have stepped forward over the past weeks to fill open spots in reserve units. These Soldiers were identified after Human Resources Command screened its database of 118,000 IRR Soldiers in mid-May for those eligible to transfer to the reserve. The list then went to retention officers. Volunteers will be solicited through May 31, Masters said, and it is uncertain, at least to Human Resources, what comes later.

The Secretary of Defense has approved the involuntary mobilization to active duty units of 6,500 IRR Soldiers for a future rotation in the global war on terror. It is likely the approved mobilization will take place, said Army spokesperson Maj. Steve Stover in the Pentagon. Each approval for an involuntary mobilization begins with a call for volunteers. The shortfall between volunteers and the approved 6,500 will be met by mobilizing IRR soldiers who still have a contractual agreement with the Army.





The e-mail chain, which started as a heads-up gesture among senior NCOs, seems to have reached every corner of the Army.
http://www.dcmilitary.com/army/pentagram/9_22/national_news/29309-1.html

[seemslikeadream]

37. Parents irked by military recruiters

Last week, a group of parents approached the Sonoma Valley Unified School District board with concerns over privacy when it comes to military recruitment on the Sonoma Valley High School campus.

Required by federal law as part of the No Child Left Behind Act, military recruiters have the right to gather students' addresses and phone numbers for recruitment purposes - or else the school risks losing its federal funding.

The only buffer against these solicitations is an "opt-out" form that schools are required to provide. What frustrated some parents was how small, subtle and even confusing the small "opt-out" check-box was in the packet of SVHS registration paperwork.

"Most parents I have spoken with were not aware of the recruiters," said John Syler, member of the High School and College Outreach and Peace (HOPE) Sonoma group. He said that many missed the box entirely and did not know of its existence. Syler also pointed out that other school districts including Petaluma dedicated entire forms to the military recruitment issue to make the option more visible.

For those who didn't check the box, over the school year some households have been inundated with recruitment calls and promotional military merchandise such as hats, games, bumper stickers and military video games, Syler added; what it boiled down to was the right to privacy.


http://www.sonomanews.com/articles/2004/06/29/news/430/update03.txt

[louis-t]

43. "No child left behind"

Aaaaaawwww, now I know what that means.

[seemslikeadream]

58. WHO WILL FIGHT YOUR WARS FOR YOU

[Tight_rope]

66. These pictures have bought tears to my eyes!

I'm going to turn in for the night with the faces of these children in my mind and probably in my dreams. God Help US!

[seemslikeadream]

38. Even thinner red line

(Filed: 29/06/2004)


With the transfer of authority to Iraq, the political burden may become lighter. For our Army in Iraq, the military burden will not become lighter. It could well grow heavier. It would be consoling, therefore, to think that ministers in London, aware that this arduous military responsibility may be with us for some time ahead, were thinking of ways to fortify our overstretched soldiers and give the Army fresh heart.



Yet our impression is that they have the reverse in mind. We shall not know for certain until mid-July, when Gordon Brown gives his Comprehensive Spending Review. But the portents are not bright. The Chancellor is no friend of the Armed Forces, and Geoff Hoon, the Defence Secretary, is weak.

A brake on recruitment is already in force. It means that military units shrink so that soldiers have to work harder to fulfil heavy worldwide commitments. It also makes elimination of regiments easier and more likely. If two military units are both under strength (because of the brake on recruiting), it seems sensible to combine them and save money by ending the cost of one of them. The Army is rife with rumours that four of the 40 infantry battalions are to be axed and the Royal Navy and the Royal Air Force can also expect cuts.

more
http://www.opinion.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2004/06/29/dl2902.xml&sSheet=/opinion/2004/06/29/ixopinion.html

[frankly_fedup2]

39. So how much small print is in this paperwork that the

recruiters don't bring to our young men and womens' attention? What's next . . . their first born males?

I have to nephews graduating this year and turning 18. No way in Hell are they going! I have a son 25 but will be 26 next year. He has never been in the military but he did sign up for the selective service when he was 18.

I hear that WHEN the draft comes back in the spring of 2005 (I may be able to find the article later cause I think I saved it), there will be deferents for nothing. No college deferments, no family deferments. I bet they will even take admitted homosexuals. Is there an age limit for the draft? Really, does anyone know??

I'm sure there will be deferments for senator's and congress men's children, Governors, any politicians' children.

[Realityhack]

42. Fortunately you got bad info...

The draft in 2005 scare was started by some very irrisponsible people who neglected to mention that the bill they are quoting about no-differments etc was introduced by a coalition of democrats who were using it as a form of protest against the war. You can see the bill and link to the senate version here: http://www.congress.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d108:HR00163:
Somewhere I found the transcript of one of the sponsors and it was just a platform to say Bush was irrisponsible and we would need a draft if he continued etc. etc.
There was also a lot of noise about filling selective service posts which as I understand it is routine.

It is commonly accepted that there can not be a civilian draft for an unpopular war such as this. Perhapse at this point only for a war of true self defense.

The fact is that durring vietnam the government eventualy had do make a choice between continuing the war and continuing to have a country. There was talk at the highest levels that if more soldiers were sent they would not have enough left to enforce martial law at home and they were extreamly woried about open rebellion of one type or another.

Think about the amount of protest just before the war. It took years for the protests against the draft in vietnam to get that big. If anyone starts a draft today for an already unpopular war they will be eaten alive by the masses and they know it.

The bill in question was stalled in committe.

RH

[seemslikeadream]

41. from another thread

ze_dscherman (1000+ posts) Tue Jun-29-04 09:05 AM
Original message
Army Plans Involuntary Call-Up of Thousands


WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. Army is planning an involuntary mobilization of thousands of reserve troops to maintain adequate force levels in Iraq and Afghanistan, defense officials said on Monday.

The move -- involving the seldom-tapped Individual Ready Reserve -- represents the latest evidence of the strain being placed on the U.S. military, particularly the Army, by operations in those two countries.

Roughly 5,600 soldiers from the ready reserve will be notified of possible deployment this year, including some soldiers who will be notified within a month, said an Army official speaking on condition of anonymity

More: http://news.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=domesticNews&storyID=55...


DemFighter (9 posts) Tue Jun-29-04 09:07 AM
Response to Original message

1. And a draft too.....



If you are age 18 to 36 be ready to get drafted if Bush wins in November. The neo-cons want to invade and occupy every country in the world. They will needs lots of troops for that.




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rocknation (1000+ posts) Tue Jun-29-04 09:12 AM
Response to Reply #1

4. And they're building 14 permanent military bases in Iraq


to use as a home base for their takeover of the Middle East.


rocknation


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Langtree (5 posts) Tue Jun-29-04 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #1

12. I think we're working ourselves up over something unlikely ...


to happen. The draft would be political suicide for any President. And the expense of invading and occupying so many countries seems untenable.


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Ironpost (373 posts) Tue Jun-29-04 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #12

15. Read my lips, GW bush*



Yellow dog, down and dirty, cut to the bone, democrat, I am.


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Dhalgren (1000+ posts) Tue Jun-29-04 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #12

16. Even though it would be Bush's first election win,

Edited on Tue Jun-29-04 09:40 AM by Dhalgren
if he wins in November, he can't "legally" run again - so, no "political suicide" there. If he becomes Doctor President-for-Life Iddy George Bush, then again, no "suicide". The costs of the ongoing conquests are irrelivant - when you are the living embodiment of God's will on earth and only waiting for the rapture, it doesn't matter how badly you wreck the economy.


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jedicord (157 posts) Tue Jun-29-04 09:10 AM
Response to Original message

2. My husband was a Marine in the first Gulf War...


he fulfilled his obligation (reserve) after he left. He's 36. My heart has stopped - is there any way he could be called back up?

He was a mortarman, no civil specialist or whatever.

"The citizen who sees his society's democratic clothing being worn out and does not cry out is not a patriot but a traitor." -- Mark Twain


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Jack Rabbit (1000+ posts) Tue Jun-29-04 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #2

5. From what you say, no


If it makes you feel any better, they'd have to draft you before coming back to him.



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jedicord (157 posts) Tue Jun-29-04 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #5

9. No worries there, I'm 43 (whew!)


n/t

"The citizen who sees his society's democratic clothing being worn out and does not cry out is not a patriot but a traitor." -- Mark Twain



rocknation (1000+ posts) Tue Jun-29-04 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #2

6. Stay on your toes, Jedicord--this is the BUSH regime we're talking about

Edited on Tue Jun-29-04 09:22 AM by rocknation
I remember seeing some stories around here about recruiters calling people like your husband, telling them they HAD to re-enlist and giving them a "choice" of picking their own duty station or having it done for them.

I also remember reading that the Bush regime has employed IRS records to track down people like your husband who haven't received a paycheck from the military in years.


rocknation


jedicord (157 posts) Tue Jun-29-04 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #6

10. Good Info


What would happen if he doesn't re-enlist? Do you know the legalities?

He was worried, because he had heard that they would be looking for people with Gulf experience. He had 10 months of it, and that was enough.

Ironically, I have this Marine agreeing to move to Canada if they do start a draft. While my husband is gung-ho Marine, he refuses to have his son fight in an unnecessary war such as this one. Now that's a strong statement, IMO.

"The citizen who sees his society's democratic clothing being worn out and does not cry out is not a patriot but a traitor." -- Mark Twain


yellowcanine (1000+ posts) Tue Jun-29-04 09:10 AM
Response to Original message

3. We effectively now have a draft - it's called "stop loss retention" and


"mobilizing the ready reserve." What the heck are we going to do if Canada and Mexico form a "Coalition of the Willing" to invade us and get rid of the WMDs?



SoCalDem (1000+ posts) Tue Jun-29-04 09:20 AM
Response to Original message

7. Hmmmm. "Involuntary" call up....would that be a.....a.......a....

Edited on Tue Jun-29-04 09:22 AM by SoCalDem

D R A F T ????????


Be fluffy to each other..

When you're mean, the kittens cry


teryang (1000+ posts) Tue Jun-29-04 09:23 AM
Response to Original message

8. there are so many catch 22s

Edited on Tue Jun-29-04 09:33 AM by teryang
If an officer is passed over for promotion, he is involuntarily separated from active duty (unless stop loss prevents it). If he wants separation pay he must agree to serve in the IRR for three years. Yet if he has a service connected disability he won't get compensation for it unless he pay's the separation money back.

So the separation pay is used as consideration to obligate you for a further three years. But if you are disabled you must pay it back. Last but not least, you can get called up involuntarily anytime you are in the IRR, even after your extended obligation expires. So the government gets you three ways.

Since most serve without pay in IRR even after their extended obligation expires, they are exposed to this risk. If you are in the IRR and not obligated and not yet ordered to be mobilized you can request to be discharged.

Organized resistance will be terminated by Thanksgiving...They are thoroughly whipped." -MacArthur to Truman at Wake Island, Oct. 15, 1950.


Langtree (5 posts) Tue Jun-29-04 09:30 AM
Response to Original message

11. Is it really involuntary if they are reservists?


Not to split hairs or anything, but they did sign up whatever their original reason for doing so was. It seems disingenuous for some to say that they didn't know they could be called up.


jedicord (157 posts) Tue Jun-29-04 09:33 AM
Response to Reply #11

13. I'm no military genius here, but...


from how I understand it, once you've served, even if you've completed inactive reserve, they can call you back in times of national emergency.

Using the phrase "reserve" is a good cover.

"The citizen who sees his society's democratic clothing being worn out and does not cry out is not a patriot but a traitor." -- Mark Twain


Sinistrous (1000+ posts) Tue Jun-29-04 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #11

14. If a person is forced to report for duty against his or her will


that is, by definition, involuntary. Only the most tortured spinning could even attempt to make it otherwise.

Sinistrous


Langtree (5 posts) Tue Jun-29-04 09:50 AM
Response to Reply #14

18. If you are countering that ...


Someone who joins the reserves has a "choice" about whether or not to serve if called up, then you've got your head in the clouds. We can talk about whether or not it's moral to call a reservist up, but you assertion is patently unrealistic.



Dhalgren (1000+ posts) Tue Jun-29-04 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #18

19. These are IRR - they didn't "join the reserves".


This is absolutely "involuntary". These are all people who have already fulfilled their obligations and now may be called-up in cases of "national emergency". You are confusing the two types of reserves.


Sinistrous (1000+ posts) Tue Jun-29-04 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #18

20. Obviously you have no military experience.


Once a military member fulfills the basic obligation, assignment to the IRR is considered a formality. Nobody in the IRR expects to be called back. Recalling those in the IRR who don't want to go back is, as I said, involuntary by definition. Stop polluting the language.

Sinistrous

havocmom (1000+ posts) Tue Jun-29-04 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #11

17. And it is involuntary when you have fulfilled your required time and they


implement Stop Loss so you cannot muster out at the end of your enlistment.

If someone serves their time (unlike what bush* did by just sorta going off the radar for nearly a year) but there is a Stop Loss order, that person cannot go home and get a civilian job or go to school like they may have planned. It would seem that person is now serving involuntarily. They did their stint, they had other plans for the months after the period of their enlistment and the malAdministration says 'Not so fast, there, Soldier Boy, you are staying at the front with your rifle in your hand and eating whatever we send you'. Sounds like a back door draft to me.

Reporting from behind the Irony Curtain, this is havocmom See Ya George



http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=653711&mesg_id=653711

[teryang]

44. Persons in the IRR can expect to be called back

If one was separated involutarily from Active Duty from the period of FY 91 to FY 95 during the great downsizing of the military proposed by Bush Cheney and enacted into law by a bipartisan Congress, then you were presented with the option of enrolling in the IRR for a three year obligation, otherwise you would not get any separation pay when you were forced out. I can't say for a fact that this practice still exists but I haven't heard that it has been changed for those who are involuntarily separated for failure to get promoted in the regular force (the up or out system).

After the the three years are up, this exended obligation is over, but to avoid any recall, one must affirmatively request discharge from the reserve component, otherwise your status as IRR continues.

Retirees are automatically enrolled in the IRR when they retire. This is justification of the legal classification of their retirement pay as compensation rather than an entitlement which for so many years made it immune from property claims of divorced spouses. While that was changed by law, the government still considers the compensation gives it the right to recall any retiree in the IRR if it so chooses.

[lumpy]

45. This conflicts with the CNN

report that non-reserve ex-military members will be called up. ?

[seemslikeadream]

46. This one?

Tuesday, June 29, 2004 Posted: 12:43 PM EDT (1643 GMT)
WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Army is preparing to notify about 5,600 retired and discharged soldiers who are not members of the National Guard or Reserve that they will be involuntarily recalled to active duty for possible service in Iraq or Afghanistan, Army officials said Tuesday.

The move reflects the continued shortage of troops available to Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld to fight the ongoing war on terrorism as well as Operation Iraqi Freedom.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/06/29/iraq.reserves.ap/index.html

I don't think I see a conflict

[peterh]

47. As I recall….

When I enlisted in the Navy back in `70, I was told upfront that my service was 4 years active and 2 years inactive and the only time you would be called back from inactive would be in case of a “national” emergency. For whatever reason, I still hold to this silly notion that a “national” emergency refers to something about U.S. soil….it doesn’t refer to Iraqi soil or Kuwaiti soil…and it certainly doesn’t pertain to no stinkin’ illegal president’s war. There is no friggin’ national emergency except to turn this country around.

[Ivan Zero]

48. Same here

I was USAF in the mid '80s, with the same upfront 4 years active / 2 years inactive contract. My recruiter put a heavy stress on the "national emergency only" callback possibility, lest I go running out the door at the thought of a six-year hitch.

I feel for those guys who thought they were free of the beast, and am thinking about how lucky I am that the Reagan cabal didn't pull something similar during my 2 inactive years.

[NeoConsSuck]

49. More security guards

for the multinational oil companies.

My place of employment had a reserve return from Iraq a month ago. When asked what he did over there, he said he was guarding an oil pipeline.

They had a big welcome home party for him. Funny, no one from the oil industry showed up to thank him.

[The_Casual_Observer]

51. Another sour tidbit of reality amids an ocean of lies

The cruel unavoidable reality of all things bush. The nonstop "insurgent" attacks while we are told how well things improving. The "handover" of "absolute sovereignty" while at the same time we increase the size of the occupation. WTF.

[seemslikeadream]

53. The cruel unavoidable reality of all things bush

The nonstop "insurgent" attacks

[seemslikeadream]

59. from another thread

Dems Will Win (1000+ posts) Tue Jun-29-04 12:36 PM
Original message
US Army Plans to Activate Reserve Troops: BACKDOOR DRAFT RAMPS UP! IRR!


US Army Plans to Activate Reserve Troops
VOA News
29 Jun 2004, 13:51 UTC


The U.S. Army is preparing to activate thousands of reserve troops for potential duty in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Army officials say around 6,000 troops from the rarely-used Individual Ready Reserve will be informed of possible deployment.

The troops would be used to help fill gaps in units serving in the two active U.S. combat areas.

Violence in Iraq has forced the Pentagon to keep the troop level there at nearly 140,000, about 30,000 more than planned. The U.S. military has another 20,000 troops in Afghanistan.

The Individual Ready Reserve is a pool of more than 100,000 former soldiers who still have some obligations to the military. The last time the Individual Ready Reserve was used was on the eve of the 1991 war that ended Iraq's occupation of Kuwait.

http://www.voanews.com/article.cfm?objectID=26D59857-3C26-4703-B9224D9...

This is it, folks! Bush has finally activated the IRR, the Ready Reserve, those who have already been discharged from the Armed Forces. These 6,000 are just the first, as Bush tries to bandaid over the military gaps until the Election. The DoD has asked the IRS to help them track 50,000 reservists out of over 200,000 total who they have lost the addresses of.

If he is reselected, Bush will almost certaintly reinstate the DRAFT on April 1, 2005, with the first lottery being June 15, 2005. As I have explained many times but for the newbies (HI!): Bush is RIGHT NOW spending $28 million to reduce DRAFT ACTIVATION TIME FROM THE USUAL 193 DAYS to JUST 75 DAYS BY MARCH 31, 2005!! (http://www.sss.gov/perfplan_fy2004.html )

In replying to this thread keep in mind that Kerry has a NO-DRAFT PLAN that I have also explained. If you have a question about that--ask me anything.

BUSH '04 = DRAFT '05

KERRY '04 = PNAC OUT THE DOOR!!





"those astonishing electronic computers which...enhance the essential (and too little noted) factor of the 'speed of thought'...As in the case of all organisms preceding it, but on an immense scale, humanity is in the process of 'cerebralising' itself." - Teilhard de Chardin, Future of Man, 1947 essay



DarkPhenyx (1000+ posts) Tue Jun-29-04 12:38 PM
Response to Original message

1. It isn't a backdoor draft. Get a grip.


If you are IRR you haven't been discharged from service, you ahve been discharged from active duty only.

When I was a child, my Mother said to me, "If you become a soldier, you'll be a general. If you become a monk, you'll end up as the Pope." Instead, I became a painter, and wound up as Picasso. - Pablo Picasso

Dems Will Win (1000+ posts) Tue Jun-29-04 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #1

2. John Kerry calls it a Backdoor Draft

Edited on Tue Jun-29-04 12:47 PM by Dems Will Win
It's backdoor because

a. It's basically involuntary, although the soldiers know they are eligible for 8 years isn't it?

b. It's covering up the fact that to keep nearly US control of Iraqi oil, by ourselves, bit to mention that to pull off the planned invasions of Syria, Iran, Sudan and Somalia (secret plan revealed in Wes Clark book) we would need the DRAFT.

"those astonishing electronic computers which...enhance the essential (and too little noted) factor of the 'speed of thought'...As in the case of all organisms preceding it, but on an immense scale, humanity is in the process of 'cerebralising' itself." - Teilhard de Chardin, Future of Man, 1947 essay


DarkPhenyx (1000+ posts) Tue Jun-29-04 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #2

10. And he would be wrong.


Sorry, but it's true.

When I was a child, my Mother said to me, "If you become a soldier, you'll be a general. If you become a monk, you'll end up as the Pope." Instead, I became a painter, and wound up as Picasso. - Pablo Picasso


fdr_hst_fan (238 posts) Tue Jun-29-04 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #1

5. No offense, but that's just splitting hairs;


the point is, this is just the FIRST STEP in Smirk's plan to send American troops ANYWHERE HE WANTS to fight his "splendid little wars". The next step is the draft itself!

Roger

DarkPhenyx (1000+ posts) Tue Jun-29-04 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #5

11. It might be hair splitting...


...but it is still more true and accurate than calling it a draft. Even if it is "the first step" in the President's plan.

When I was a child, my Mother said to me, "If you become a soldier, you'll be a general. If you become a monk, you'll end up as the Pope." Instead, I became a painter, and wound up as Picasso. - Pablo Picasso

TNDemo (1000+ posts) Tue Jun-29-04 12:41 PM
Response to Original message

3. My brother retired from the Reserve two years ago


after 20+ years of service. Would he eligible for this draft? I am not sure if he would fit the description of ready reserve.



atreides1 (1000+ posts) Tue Jun-29-04 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #3

7. According to the CNN article



"Any former enlisted soldier who did not serve at least eight years
on active duty is in the Individual Ready Reserve pool, as are all
officers who have not resigned their commissions."

So your brother should be safe from this call-up, but he might want
to check it out.

As for those that retire after 20 years of active duty, it's purely
voluntary on their part if they want to go back in. When I was on my
way to Desert Storm, we had to process through Ft. Knox, Ky.

Most of the admin people were retirees who had volunteered to return
to active duty, they were mostly Korean and Vietnam Era vets, there
was even a Colonel who was a WWII vet.

But have your brother check it out just in case they've changed the
rules since then.


TNDemo (1000+ posts) Tue Jun-29-04 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #7

8. Thanks.


I just wrote him to find out if he is in it. He has been a lucky son of a gun. He managed to get into the guard during Vietnam (and we certainly had no connections). In the gulf war he got called up twice erroneously but ultimately did not have to go. He had just switched from one unit to another and the old unit ended up being over there for about a year. A few years ago he switched to the reserve. His guard unit is the big one in Tennessee that deployed last week. So hopefully he has slithered through again.


papau (1000+ posts) Tue Jun-29-04 12:42 PM
Response to Original message

4. CNN version of story via AP - DU link


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&a...

Army to recall former military members (retirees/discharged)


http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/06/29/iraq.reserves.ap/index.html

Army to recall former military members (retirees/discharged)
Tuesday, June 29, 2004 Posted: 12:43 PM EDT (1643 GMT)

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Army is preparing to notify about 5,600 retired and discharged soldiers who are not members of the National Guard or Reserve that they will be involuntarily recalled to active duty for possible service in Iraq or Afghanistan, Army officials said Tuesday.

It marks the first time the Army has called on the Individual Ready Reserve, as this category of reservists is known, in substantial numbers since the 1991 Gulf War.

The move reflects the continued shortage of troops available to Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld to fight the ongoing war on terrorism as well as Operation Iraqi Freedom.

Lt. Gen. Frank Hagenbeck, the Army's deputy chief of staff for personnel, said earlier this month of the Army's troop strength, "We are stretched but we have what we need."<snip>


orthogonal (243 posts) Tue Jun-29-04 12:46 PM
Response to Original message

6. Donald Rumsfeld fired General Shinseki


But, but, Donald Rumsfeld fired General Shinseki when Shinseki said we'd need a whole lot more troops for Iraq than Rummy planned for!

Did Rummy lie to us? Unpossible!



RUSTY SHACKLEFORD (39 posts) Tue Jun-29-04 01:14 PM
Response to Original message

9. If I was still IRR, there's no way in hell I'd go back on active duty.


They'd have to throw me in jail. No way I'd go to Iraq to fight and die for neocon scum. Forget it.

I'd rather be tied to whipping post.



" Guns don't kill people. The Government does."


Cats Against Frist (41 posts) Tue Jun-29-04 01:35 PM
Response to Original message

12. ????


What does that mean, "some obligation?" If you're discharged, or you finished your reserve, what other obligation is there?

GOP = Greed Over Patriotism




SkipNewarkDE (171 posts) Tue Jun-29-04 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #12

13. According to a friend of mine who was in the army:


"when you enlist you sign up for a period of 2 to 4 years active duty.
Your are committed to 8 years total. So after your initial 4 you have 4
more on inactive status inactive,which means that they can recall you at
anytime. "

Cats Against Frist (41 posts) Tue Jun-29-04 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #13

14. That sucks


At least it doesn't apply to my boyfriend -- he played french horn in the Army band, but I think he was out in like '92 or something. Shwweeew.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x654146

[Best_man23]

60. I have a friend who was called up

Guy is 62 and although he retired as a Lt Col several years ago, they called him back.

[seemslikeadream]

61. 'Ready Reserve' Members to See Duty Overseas

By THOM SHANKER

Published: June 30, 2004


ASHINGTON, June 29 — Amid Congressional concerns that the military is stretched too thin, the Army is preparing to take advantage of a rarely used wartime program that allows it to recall soldiers who have left the service and did not join the reserves. Pentagon officials said Tuesday that 5,600 former soldiers were going to be called up for yearlong tours, mostly assignments in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The decision was immediately cited by members of Congress as more evidence that the deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan and, more broadly, for the global campaign against terrorism, have left the Army unable to fulfill all its missions. Likewise, the presidential campaign of John Kerry quickly issued a statement on Tuesday labeling the decision troubling news.

Proposals to expand the Army already are being debated in Congress, where some lawmakers have described the large reserve mobilizations and other unusual steps to fill the rosters in Iraq and Afghanistan as an unofficial draft.

Pentagon and military officials have resisted calls to increase the size of the Army, saying they would rather find efficiencies elsewhere in the service first. They also warn that decisions to expand the Army would lock the Pentagon into expensive personnel budgets for years to come.

The nation's pool of former officers and soldiers who are subject to being recalled to service is known as the Individual Ready Reserve. It allows the military to select specialists with needed skills, and it has not been used in such large numbers since the Persian Gulf war of 1991

more
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/30/politics/30RESE.html?ex=1089172800&en=9130f8dd039bdb3b&ei=5062&partner=GOOGLE

LuAnne Sorrell, Reporter
Former GI's Likely To See Active Duty
Email to a Friend Printer Friendly Version



(Jun. 29) -- Even with the handover of power, American troops aren't going to be leaving Iraq any time soon. In fact more Americans are going to be sent to the country.

The army is going to be calling up thousands of inactive soldiers for service in both Iraq and Afghanistan. But there is some confusion about who exactly is on the list. Eyewitness News talked with a spokesperson at the Army recruiting station on East Sahara to clarify exactly who will be affected.

The Army spokesperson told Eyewitness News that only 39 soldiers here in Nevada could be affected by the most recent call-up. And it's only those men and women who are on what's known as the Individual Ready Reserve list.

With the U.S. vowing to keep nearly 140,000 American troops in Iraq until at least 2005. Resources are stretched thin. At least half of the soldiers currently fighting in Iraq are national guardsmen or reservists. Now the Army is reaching for those who have already served time and are now inactive to fill the gaps.

more
http://www.klas-tv.com/Global/story.asp?S=1978514&nav=168XOIgb

Wednesday, June 30, 2004

You're (back) in the Army now

SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER EDITORIAL BOARD

Few things are more essential to the sovereignty of the nascent Iraqi government than soldiers -- our soldiers. Today will offer evidence that more soldiers are needed, as the Pentagon is expected to formally announce plans to involuntarily call up thousands of former service members who had retired or have been discharged from the Army.
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/180024_calluped.html

[TacticalPeek]

62. Children should not play with armies.

'I've been to war. I've raised twins. If I had a choice, I'd rather go to war.' - aWol


Sometimes, a hard lesson to learn.

[seemslikeadream]

64. Two Soldiers

He was just a blue-eyed Boston boy,
His voice was low with pain.
"I'll do your bidding, comrade mine,
If I ride back again.
But if you ride back and I am left,
You'll do as much for me,
Mother, you know, must hear the news,
So write to her tenderly.

"She's waiting at home like a patient saint,
Her fond face pale with woe.
Her heart will be broken when I am gone,
I'll see her soon, I know."
Just then the order came to charge,
For an instance hand touched hand.
They said, "Aye," and away they rode,
That brave and devoted band.

Straight was the track to the top of the hill,
The rebels they shot and shelled,
Plowed furrows of death through the toiling ranks,
And guarded them as they fell.
There soon came a horrible dying yell
From heights that they could not gain,
And those whom doom and death had spared
Rode slowly back again.

But among the dead that were left on the hill
Was the boy with the curly hair.
The tall dark man who rode by his side
Lay dead beside him there.
There's no one to write to the blue-eyed girl
The words that her lover had said.
Momma, you know, awaits the news,
And she'll only know he's dead.

dylan

[AndyTiedye]

74. Yeah Right

>I've been to war.

He must be referring to his "Mission Accomplished" carrier landing.

[seemslikeadream]

63. Say goodbye

Guard families brace for July 4


By ELIZABETH PUTNAM
For the Daily Tribune
With the Fourth of July only days away, friends and families of members of the Wisconsin National Guard 1st Battalion, 128th Infantry are focused on keeping their spirits high as they adjust to life without their loved ones.

"It's so fresh and new to these families," said Jessica Klement, leader of a support group for families with loved ones in the Eau Claire-based unit and wife of Sgt. Jim Klement, who is with the battalion. "We need to keep the morale up."
The 680 soldiers of the 1st Battalion, which includes Wausau residents, left Volk Field in western Juneau County last week for Mississippi, where they will train before heading to Iraq. About 4,000 family members and friends attended a send-off Wednesday that marked the first deployment of a Wisconsin National Guard combat arms unit since World War II.

For Debra Busko of Wausau, the adjustment has been difficult. Her youngest son, David Busko, 21, was planning to attend the University of Wisconsin-Madison School of Business in the fall on a scholarship, before he was called to duty.

"I never thought he'd end up going, but it was always in the back of my mind," Debra Busko said.

David Busko's scholarship will be waiting for him when he returns, Debra Busko said. The soldiers likely will serve an 18-month tour before returning.

more
http://www.wisinfo.com/dailytribune/wrdtlocal/283431308887969.shtml

Pulling Out: 190th leaves for training, overseas duty




Members of the 190th Engineer Company drive out of Morristown while a citizen waves a U.S. flag. Inset, Sergeant Andy McClanan holds his son, Gavin. McClanan also has two other children, Nicolas and Ryan


Knowing he will not be there when Gavin takes his first steps causes a lump to rise in McClanan's throat, but he was encouraged Monday by the words of Pastor Richard Emmert, who told the soldiers of the 190th Engineer Company that there are no hopeless situations when you have God by your side.

Hundreds of supporters gathered in the parking lot of Manley Baptist Church Monday as they awaited the arrival of the local heroes, who departed this morning for training at Camp Shelby in Mississippi before deploying to Iraq in the coming months. When the police escorted convoy arrived, the crowd waved American flags and signs of support as the troops walked through the crowd to a breakfast awaiting them inside.

Church members and other community residents served the troops and their families breakfast as children from the church passed out treat bags. Soldiers smiled as they found phone cards, cameras, and other things in their bags, while the children were happy to find scrapbooks, toys, and candy in theirs.
more
http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=12139445&BRD=1613&PAG=461&de...


Local soldiers report for duty


ocal soldiers report for duty
By Sandy Miller
Times-News writer

TWIN FALLS -- After 22 years as a weekend warrior, Idaho National Guard Master Sgt. Charles Butterfield was looking forward to retiring from his military duties in April.

He could turn his attention to running his auto body repair shop. More importantly, he would have more time to spend with his six newly adopted children. Yes, six, ages 10, 9, 8, 7, 4 and 1. He and his wife, Vickie, also have three adult children in their early 20s.

Butterfield was in the middle of putting an extension on the house. But Uncle Sam put a little crimp in his plans.

Butterfield is one of about some 1,250 citizen soldiers of the 116th Cavalry Brigade of the Idaho National Guard who were federally activated in May to serve in Operation Iraqi Freedom. Along with about 240 other soldiers from the Magic Valley, Butterfield reported for duty Monday to begin an 18-month deployment that will include a one-year tour of duty in Iraq.

Two years ago, being deployed was the furthest thing from Butterfield's mind. Their children having grown and left the nest, he and Vickie decided to adopt a child. But before they could adopt, they had to become foster parents. Instead of adopting just one child, they ended up adopting six.
more
http://www.magicvalley.com/news/localstate/index.asp?StoryID=10610


Second Guard wave readies




War: Southwest Idaho company of 116th Cavalry Brigade feels set for Iraq service

By Lindsay Redifer-IPT

EMMETT -- Unfazed by turmoil in Iraq, Idaho National Guard members prepared for deployment at the Emmett Armory by calmly packing their gas masks.

Company A of the 116th Cavalry Brigade prepared to deploy the same day interim Prime Minister Iyad Allawi assumed power in Iraq. However, Lt. Col. Tim Marsano, Idaho National Guard public affairs officer, said the transfer of power won't affect the deployment of local troops overseas.

More than 1,200 Idaho National Guardsmen reported for duty Monday at 16 armories around the state in preparation for eventual deployment to Iraq this fall.

The deployment has already changed the lives of Guardsmen throughout the state. Brandon Lolley, 26, of Boise has to leave his wife of two weeks when he ships out.

"I think she's concerned, " Lolley said, "but she's strong."

more
http://www.idahopress.com/articles/2004/06/29/news/news1.txt

[struggle4progress]

65. Are we still in Iraq? We aren't leaving Iraq? Oh. eom

[Jack Rabbit]

67. Hey, Bush still has two years left on his NG service, doesn't he?

Let's get him!!

[seemslikeadream]

68. He's ready to go

[BrotherBuzz]

69. I think he had fourteen months...

and I'm willing to bargain down half of that reserve time for seven months active duty if he starts his tour in Iraq tomorrow. Hmmm, seven months ought to do it. For once, I might find something he and I agree upon - January can't come fast enough.

I can dream, can't I?

[seemslikeadream]

70. Yes you can dream BrotherBuzz

I do it all the time.

Thanks for your words

[dusty64]

71. Has this story gotten

any coverage? Not a word of it in my local rag, but the "trial" of saddam is in the headline as it probably will for days to come.

[seemslikeadream]

72. Only the local call-ups in the local papers

see post #63

[seemslikeadream]

73. This call-up will pinpoint people with certain skills

Later today, the Army will officially announce this involuntary recall. The Army has about 117 thousand people in the Individual Ready Reserve. This recall will involve 56 hundred of those retired or discharged soldiers. This call-up will pinpoint people with certain skills that are in high demand like medical specialists and engineers. If things go according to plan, the soldiers will get 30 days notice before they're assigned to Army Reserve units deployed to help in Iraq and Afghanistan.
more
http://www.whotv.com/Global/story.asp?S=1978717

[saigon68]

75. A lot more will be called up

Then the draft will start

[seemslikeadream]

78. The bags are packed and sitting by the door

n/t

[nolabels]

76. Hello, THIS STORY has gone from PLANS to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>IS<<<<<<<<<<< " Army recalling 5,674 who left service "

http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Jun2004/n06302004_200406306.html

On edit: Thought it might be CLUE, but who knows



Rapid Technological Change: A Perspective

In Orson Scott Card's Ender's Game, two exceptionally gifted teenagers use a worldwide computer network to manipulate public opinion. The Earth finally elects the brother as its ruler. Card published the story in 1985, when few people used the Internet. In those days, an Intel 80286 (16-bit) processor was "fast," a 20 megabyte hard drive was "large," and a megabyte was "a lot of RAM." The setting of Ender's Game is the far future, but the story's computer technology exists today. No one can yet use it to control public opinion, since most people still watch television and read newspapers. However, cable technology may soon allow a television to operate from a computer network. The Internet will change forever the way we exchange information.
The Internet as a Crisis: Danger and Opportunity

And on the pedestal these words appear:

"My name is Ozymandias, king of kings:
Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!"
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away.
- Percy Bysshe Shelley (1818)

The Chinese characters for "crisis" mean danger and opportunity. This describes the competitive environment of the late 20th century, and it includes the Internet. Organizations- even large ones- that ignore change can easily suffer Ozymandias' fate. Even the late 19th century has examples, and the late 20th century offers more.

The Internet's capability for instant, graphical, and interactive communication is turning every marketplace and political arena into a free-fire zone. Within this zone, an organization has three options. It can retreat (get out of the market or business). It can advance through the zone as quickly as possible, and both Alexander the Great and General Patton endorsed this approach. In business, this means embracing and exploiting the changing technology. The third option is to do neither, stand like a deer in the oncoming headlights, and get chopped to pieces
(snip)

http://www.ganesha.org/leading/excerpts.html

[JPZenger]

77. Fraction of the Cost

A fraction of the cost of the useless war in Iraq could have been diverted to provide us with some real homeland security.

We could have instituted a program to inspect every cargo shipping container coming into the U.S. vs. the small fraction that is now inspected.

We could have inspected cargo shipments on passenger jets.

We could have added more bomb sniffing dogs at airports.

We could have prepared major cities and hospitals with the training and equipment they need to deal with a terrorist attack.

We could have distributed antidotes and vaccines throughout the U.S. to deal with possible biological weapons.

Instead, we just have a set of unfunded and incomplete ideas to increase security, an empty Federal bank account, and more enemies than ever.

Bill Clinton recently said that the Administration needs to understand that we can't kill all our enemies and we can't occupy every country where they hide. So we better worry about making some friends throughout the world.

[nolabels]

79. I have been hearing some speculation the handover was just a cover

This was done so the escalation can be done while less people are watching. Does it not seem a lot less people ranting about it, but what has really changed for the any withdrawl?

[PATRICK]

81. Remember Clinton tapping the oil reserves?

And the "furor" that created? I bet this pouring of lives into the oil wells of Iraq barely rates page one for a day.

[seemslikeadream]

82. Kerry blasts Bush for military call-ups

Democrat challenges president's leadership on national security
By Bryan Bender, Globe Staff | July 1, 2004

WASHINGTON -- Senator John F. Kerry's campaign yesterday seized on the Pentagon's call-up of thousands of former soldiers for duty in Iraq and Afghanistan to step up its charge that the Bush administration's management of the military has left the Army spread dangerously thin.

ADVERTISEMENT

The move demonstrated the Kerry campaign's increasing willingness to engage Bush on what had been the president's perceived strength, his handling of national security.

Kerry advisers contend that the call-up of the Individual Ready Reserve is the result of a series of bad decisions and poor war planning by Bush and his top advisers. His campaign released a ''fact sheet" and brought forward a retired Air Force chief who campaigned for Bush in 2000 to reinforce its claims.

''The troops are paying the price for arrogant mismanagement and poor planning at the civilian policy level," retired Air Force Chief of Staff General Merrilll ''Tony" McPeak, a Kerry adviser, said in a conference call with reporters yesterday. ''The force we have in Iraq today is part of what I call an in-between force -- too small to solve the problem and too big to be supported by our force structure."

morre
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2004/07/01/kerry_blasts_bush_for_military_call_ups/