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Globe and Mail: Liberals take six-point lead over Conservatives (Canada)

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Hand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-22-04 10:44 AM
Original message
Globe and Mail: Liberals take six-point lead over Conservatives (Canada)
Grope and Flail sez that the latest polling has Harper and the Neo-Cons losing support, esp. in Ontario...

"The Liberal Party has vaulted back into the lead in the federal election, apparently helped along by the Conservatives' campaign troubles, according to a new poll conducted over the weekend.

The Ipsos-Reid poll, conducted for The Globe and Mail and CTV, finds that support for the Liberals has rebounded to 34 per cent of decided voters, while Stephen Harper 's Conservatives have dropped to 28 per cent, a level of support similar to what they enjoyed at the start of the campaign..."

It appears that the Grit campaign strategists have finally stopped stepping on their own you-know-whats:

"Late last week, the Liberals began running ads bluntly linking Mr. Harper with former prime minister Brian Mulroney and former Ontario premier Mike Harris. Meanwhile, Mr. Martin accused Mr. Harper and Alberta Premier Ralph Klein of being in cahoots on provincial health-care changes to be aired after the June 28 election..."

link
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gasperc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-22-04 10:46 AM
Original message
whew...was starting to worry for my cousins
:beer:
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Tommy_Douglas Donating Member (242 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-22-04 10:46 AM
Response to Original message
1. Klein's comment hurt...
If you want to scare the average Canadian, make it know that you plan on taking the knife to health care if the Conservative party forms government.
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Hoping4Change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-22-04 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. It's almost as if Klein wants Martin to win because I can't understand
why Klein made this ominous remark that was guaranteed to alarm Canadians. It is an understatement to say that Harper would not stand in the way of Klein destroying medicare. I find Klein's behaviour very strange.
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Tommy_Douglas Donating Member (242 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-22-04 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. Klein has a penchant for opening his yap...
Stems from the sheer amount of arrogance the man exudes. (He'd make Martin look humble)
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Hand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-22-04 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #5
14. That, plus...
The sheer volume of alcohol that ignorant rumpot has ingested over the years. If I had nickel for every brain cell he's fried that way, I could retire tomorrow!

:evilgrin:
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Hoping4Change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-22-04 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. "ignorant rumpot " remark should be banned!
It's way too funny. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA :bounce:
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Hand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-22-04 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. Thanx!
I actually referred to Klein as "the Prairie Rumpot" in a LTTE to our local paper (Halifax Chronicle Herald, aka Chronically Horrid and Comical Harold). They printed it!

:toast:
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-22-04 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #2
23. Klein may well prefer Liberals or NDP in Ottawa
The Conservative Party of Alberta generally likes to run against Ottawa rather than the local opposition parties. This is easier when the federal government is not The Conservative Party of Canada.

There is much speculation here in Alberta that there will be a provincial election in the fall. You will not hear the provincial Tories admit to this bit of Machiavellianism, but it is there just the same.
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Hoping4Change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-22-04 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. Well that is an interesting observation.
Despite what an "ignorant rumpot" he is, Klein just is way too cunning a politican to let something so damning slip out by accident, especially since he and his oil baron buddies know what a friend they have in Martin.

One thing no extreme rightwing pol has, is scruples about dirty politics. I think you have Klein nailed.
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-22-04 10:54 AM
Response to Original message
3. It was only a matter of time, imo....
all Harper had to spout off on was the Sponsorship scandal and that was it. You can only wag your finger so many times and people will want to move on and expect you to talk about all the other issues. Harper can't talk about the other issues because, when he does, his CRAP hidden agenda seeps out.

The Canadian people want to slap the Liberals for the Sponsorship scandal and rightly so but are now looking at how hard to slap and it seems they are coming to the conclusion that a Liberal minority government slap is appropriate rather than throwing them out and getting the CRAP in.

CRAP = Conservative, Reform, Alliance Party (thanks to another poster here, love the acronym, fits them perfectly, imo)
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TrogL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-22-04 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #3
8. I'm (hopefully) going to a town hall meeting tonight
I've got some rather nasty questions for the Conservative candidate (basically pointing out that they're a bunch of Freepers).
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-22-04 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. Good!
They had a free ride for too long, imo! It is time for the hard questions on all the issues that Harper et al are desperately trying to avoid.

I love quoting the faux Conservatives support for the war in Iraq and how they want Canada to kiss bush's ass so bad they are prepared to have our troops in Iraq being killed. I have turned a few voters away from them with that issue alone.
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Hoping4Change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-22-04 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #8
18. You go tiger! And may the DU FORCE be with you!!!
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Lisa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-22-04 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #8
25. go for it!
Some of those so-called "Conservatives" don't even know the history of their own party. I encountered a devout Harper supporter who firmly believed that Joe Clark had never won a general election, and "wasn't a real Prime Minister". (I've decided to stop calling these neo-Cons "Tories", since they seem to be downright contemptuous of the legacy of Stanfield, Diefenbaker, and Co.)

If their points are that easy to refute, you'll wipe the floor with him, TrogL.
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ironflange Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-22-04 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #25
30. I won't call them Tories either
It's still Reform; it has nothing to do with the party of MacDonald and Diefenbaker, or even Lyin' Brian, for that matter.
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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-22-04 10:57 AM
Response to Original message
4. The Conservatives started to show their true face
and it scared a lot of votes away from them.

Harper's folly, of playing politics with pedophilia - basically calling Martin and Layton pro-kiddie porn - misfired badly. The wheels are definitely off the Conservative bandwagon.

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Hoping4Change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-22-04 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. Profoundly bad judgement to slime Martin in that way and then
dig that hole deeper by not apologizing.
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-22-04 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #4
12. Yeah, the Star had a big headline the other day...

Tory campaign turns ugly

basically accusing the Liberals of supporting Child Pornography. I think people recgonize the silliness and deceitfulness of that attack.

Sid
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Hoping4Change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-22-04 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #12
16. Its not silly, it is sheer ignorance and reprehensible because
Edited on Tue Jun-22-04 12:18 PM by Hoping4Change
people have had their lives ruined when faced with false accusations like this. This is not an accusations to toss lightly.

ps I'm not a Martin supporter.
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-22-04 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #16
29. It is silly...
because it has no foundation in truth. People see the attack as political grandstanding at it's worst.

Sid
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ironflange Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-22-04 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #12
31. I'm no fan of Martin, but Harper owes him an apology
Trying to make political hay out of a little girl's murder is about the most loathsome campaign move I've ever seen in Canada. Even Repugs would think twice before pulling a maneuver like that.
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PROGRESSIVE1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-22-04 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #4
13. Steve Harper has a face that says "Kiddie Porn Lover"!!!
Maybe it is he who has the problem!
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-22-04 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #4
26. Agreed, that was very stupid on their part
It backfired with potential swing voters, even if it may have played to some portion of their base. That kind of slander and innuendo only works if it plays on an existing public suspicion of someone, which may be unfair or not, as the case may be.

For example, I think large numbers of people eventually came around to seeing Mulroney as corrupt, regardless of how well the evidence supports the claim (and I won't get into that right now). He just fit the stereotype of someone intensely interested in money. The shoe closet thing is an example of why the public came to see him that way.

Paul Martin (or Jack Layton) just don't strike the public as people who would support child pornography or be personally interested in it. Therefore, the implication that they did or were, backfired on Harper.
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Hoping4Change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-22-04 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. BTW did you know Mulroney and the Mrs set up house in
Palm Beach no less? Intensely interested in money, money, money is an understatement.
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Gloria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-22-04 11:10 AM
Response to Original message
7. I've been listening to shows like "THE HOUSE"
on CBC/RCI on shortwave....Apparently, Klein's talk about a "secret agenda" re healthcare isn't the only problem. In general, the message of "secret agenda" is being used. Since the election was called so early, apparently the Conservatives didn't have much time to put together a real detailed agenda...so it's easy to go after them on a "secret agenda." Canadians don't seem to know what they really stand for, so any doubts seeded can grow.

The debates, apparently, didn't change any minds. Also, Harper seems to have jumped the shark by accusing Martin of basically being "pro-child pornography", but Martin has lashed back, explaining how the votes were actually cast at the time ( I guess, technical types of things involved).

The comments heard were that voters wanted to "punish" the Liberals. Looks like they may be figuring out that they would be punishing themselves if they voted Conservative!

I guess that there still can be a minority or coalition gov. even if Martin wins, yes?
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-22-04 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. Yes, if the Liberals don't win enough seats to form a majority,...
the Liberals can still form the government but will have to work with one of the opposition parties, probably the New Democratic Party, in order to get their bills passed. Usually, a minority government only lasts a relatively short time and then we are back to the polls and we tend to elect a majority government at that time.
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Anarcho-Socialist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-22-04 11:13 AM
Response to Original message
9. It's great to see Canada reject neo-conservatism...
...it's been a disaster for the US. Canadians only need to look at the US with its bulging deficits, slashed social programs, over-stretched military, fundamentalist christian ways and lack of respect around the world.

The Neo-Conservative model is a total failure. Hopefully it'll be in the dustbin with Communism soon.
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Hand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-22-04 12:26 PM
Response to Original message
19. Followup: "Tory support fell as Harper boasted"
"The day after Stephen Harper was widely seen to have won the English-language leaders debate, he talked about the possibility of winning a majority government. Ironically, it was then, some strategists say, that the chance for a majority began to slip away...."

link

All in the spirit of kicking a Tory while he's down, you understand...

:evilgrin:
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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-22-04 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. Swing voters want to punish the Liberals, but Conservative boasts
of a majority government scare them. Harper, and his media shills, really overplayed their hand, and peaked too soon.
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Domitan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-22-04 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
20. Even some of the conservative papers aren't fans of Harper
Lorrie Goldstein, editor of Toronto Sun, and the editorials in the soft-right London Free Press have repeated their criticisms of Harper and his claims of being able to cut taxes and spend money on programs...not to mention the infamous linking of Martin-Layton with child porn.
Mind you, they are not fans of Liberals at all...but they can see through enough of the bull compared to the FAUX pigstains south of us.
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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-22-04 01:50 PM
Response to Original message
21. Today's SES-CPAC numbers: Libs 34%, Cons 31%, NDP 21%
http://www.sesresearch.com/election/SES%20CPAC%20June%2...

Confirms the Libs lead, without Ipsos' quirk of inflating the Green/other figure.

And look at the graph to see the correlation between the fall/rise of the Conservative and NDP numbers. The Liberal vote has been most steady, while there has been a lot of apparently non-ideological opposition vote jockeying.
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whosinpower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-22-04 02:09 PM
Response to Original message
24. Harper's big mistake
Was to criticize the liberals for child porn. This was way over the edge IMHO....Canadians do not react very well with mudslinging of this depravity.
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