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MAlibdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-04 09:07 PM
Original message
Club for Growth begins ads linking Bush and Reagan, Attacking Kerry
Edited on Tue Jun-15-04 09:11 PM by MAlibdem
http://www.comcast.net/News/POLITICS//XML/1131_Presiden...

"WASHINGTON - Days after Ronald Reagan was laid to rest, a conservative interest group on Tuesday unveiled a campaign ad that aligns him with President Bush and criticizes Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry.

The Club for Growth's ad, which is to begin airing Wednesday, portrays both Republican presidents as leaders _ Reagan on communism and Bush on terrorism, while claiming Kerry was "wrong then, wrong now" on national security...

...The Reagan family's spokeswoman said Tuesday that permission is needed for anyone to use Reagan's likeness in an ad because doing so implies that he endorsed one candidate over another.

"No one has requested the permission to use his image in an ad, nor would we feel it appropriate to give such permission at this juncture," Joanne Drake said. "We protect his image very carefully, particularly as it relates to politics."

(continues)
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NMDemDist2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-04 09:09 PM
Response to Original message
1. we knew there would be an answer to MoveOn.org
but do you think the Reagan-Bush comparison will stick? I doubt it
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neuvocat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-04 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Not if the Reagan's don't want it, and they don't.
"Club for Growth": sounds like an ad for men's impotence or hair growth.
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jdj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-04 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. I see I'm not the only one. teehee.
Of course, I didn't think of the penis enlargement angle. I can't believe they chose a name without Murikan,Patriot or Values in it. I guess those were all taken.
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starroute Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-17-04 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #6
38. I think it's a reference to the Club of Rome's "Limits to Growth"
"One of the best known warning voices was contained in the book "Limits to Growth", published in 1972. It sold twelve million copies in 37 languages. Whilst the book did not predict what precisely would happen, it stated that if the world's consumption patterns and population growth continued at the same high rates of the time, the earth would strike its limits within a century. The message was that this outcome was not inevitable. People could change their policies - and the sooner the better.

"The book was very controversial. Its note of warning jarred with the sense of optimism that existed at that time. The 1950s and 1960s had been a period of immense economic growth in both the Western and Communist worlds, both of which had a very low rate of unemployment. There was a general belief in the Western world that another 1930s-type Depression could be avoided as a result of government intervention in the economy. Additionally, it was assumed that there was a standard (Western) formula for economic growth that could apply throughout the Third World. All the West had to do was to win the Cold War and the future for the entire world was assured."

http://www.abc.net.au/science/slab/rome/default.htm


Though it hasn't been discussed much lately, the question of whether there really are limits to growth has been perking along under the surface for the last thirty years. The Republicans explicitly deny it. The Democrats sort of believe it but don't want to say so because ever since Carter lost to Reagan in 1980, it's been considered political poison. America's willful blindness to this issue may be its biggest problem, underlying everything else that is wrong in this country.
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Skip Intro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-04 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #1
16. Oh man - they are doomed ... they really are their own worst enemy
Edited on Tue Jun-15-04 09:48 PM by nu_duer
What a bunch of dumb jerks. The best they could have hoped for was to get thru reagan-week without screwing up. But no, they think they can ride the rr swell back to shore. The family's against it, and, according to a recent thread, a big majority of Americans, repubs included, think it would be very distasteful. It cannot work for bush. They are going to force a comparison (human nature), repubs (and maybe some independents) will see a hero on one side and a fading, murdering, sorely inadequate moron on the other, and bush's complete charade will finally cease sustainability. They are nothing more than greedy, self-deluded criminals, who have bought or bribed their way into and out of everything, and who I believe are about to find out there are some things you can't buy. Justice may yet survive in the USA.

I hope this commercial airs non-stop.

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Mithras61 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-04 09:13 PM
Response to Original message
2. So is the * campaign...
claiming this as a campaign contribution, campaign coordination or just "They did it on their own without asking us" issue advocacy ad?

Just wondering. The stink they made over MoveOn running ads against Bush, without even mentioning Kerry was pretty sad, but if this goes through without Bush/Cheney 2004 acknowledging it as a contribution, it sort of highlights their hypocrisy, doesn't it?
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jdj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-04 09:18 PM
Response to Original message
4. Club for Growth.
What a stupid name.

I always think of "Hair Club for Men" when I see it.

Boy, I bet Nancy is fuming, the yokel that won't allow stem cell research is whoring off her husband's name. Glad to be alive to see all that bad karma biting this hypocritical family in the ass.
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GoddessOfGuinness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-16-04 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #4
24. Club for Malignant Growth
is more like it.
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lovedems Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-04 09:18 PM
Response to Original message
5. So what happens if they air this ad without the permission of the Reagans?
It sounds like it is a done deal. They are running with it. What if Nancy just says "No" (ironic, huh). Do they have to pull it?
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chimpymustgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-04 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Oooh. Nancy's gonna give 'em the smackdown. And she should.
How craven.
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MAlibdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-04 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. It seems like they always get caught...
Their dumb, desperate, exploitive tricks aren't even working anymore...
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jdj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-04 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. It sounds like they can talk about him as long as they
don't use his "image or likeness".

I sure wouldn't use a picture or film if I were them. Because Nancy will come out against it and that will backfire on them.
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MAlibdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-04 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. would likeness include sound clips of his voice?
this would be a funny backfire
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jdj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-04 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. Nope, I was wrong, they are using film!
Now the quote will be "Mr. Bush, tear down that gall!
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amandabeech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-04 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #5
21. I would expect the lawyers to roll into action
as soon as this is aired, if not before. I believe that this might be a violation of the right to control the use of one's own image, or something like it. Reagan's estate, represented by the executor, would have the right to sue, whoever is in that position.

A nasty piece of legal business between the Reagan estate and a conservative group supporting * would be absolutely delicious.

And I do think that using Reagan's image without the authorization of the estate or his widow is the epitome of arrogance and callousness. How Repuglican.
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Red State Rebel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-17-04 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #5
37. If Nancy is not happy, she can complain but not much else...
If it were illegal to use a public figures pictures in political advertising then Bush* couldn't use Kerry's and vice versa.

This could backfire on them big time - it's too soon after his death.
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sniffa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-04 09:25 PM
Response to Original message
11. can you say backLash?
i hope they overpLay this hand because the boomerang is going to be immense.
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jdj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-04 09:27 PM
Response to Original message
12. Oh, how nice, they've "informed" Nancy
Former President Reagan is then seen at the Berlin Wall in 1987, saying "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall." That's followed by Bush telling rescue workers at the World Trade Center after the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks: "I can hear you, the rest of the world hears you, and the people who knocked these buildings down will hear all of us soon."

The Reagan family's spokeswoman said Tuesday that permission is needed for anyone to use Reagan's likeness in an ad because doing so implies that he endorsed one candidate over another.

snip-

He said the group wrote a letter to Reagan's widow, Nancy, informing her of the ad.

what bastards. Nancy better get used to this.
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lovedems Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-04 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. Reagan hasn't been gone 2 weeks and they are informing her now?
Boy, I learned when my grandmother died, you don't fuck with a person in mourning. That could be dangerous. From the statements Ron jr. has made, I would expect him to go national on Club For Growth and the administration.

It has to be a kind of lame ad, remember the "latte drinking, volvo driving, blah, blah, blah" ad they ran against Dean?
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Justitia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-16-04 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #18
25. The anti-Dean ad was lame-o
I have to confess I got a huge laugh every time I saw it.
It seriously looked like a parody / satire.
I can't imagine anyone took it seriously.

"Latte drinking, Volvo driving, NYTimes reading" - funny stuff!

Their president / big cheese, Stephen somebody - good lord, what a twit he is on TV.
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Kipepeo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-04 09:30 PM
Response to Original message
13. Bush-Zombie Reagan: Winning Ticket
My apologies if this has already been posted:

http://www.bush-zombiereagan.com /
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xray s Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-04 09:30 PM
Response to Original message
15. Bush seems to like to exploit dead people in his ads
what a sick dick
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-04 11:58 PM
Response to Reply #15
22. Love the sig line
One of my favorite running exchanges in a film.

"Always the negative waves, Moriarity." I use that randomly and get the oddest looks.
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CaliforniaLady Donating Member (51 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-16-04 03:54 AM
Response to Reply #15
27. This will backfire bigtime!
The Repugs are digging themselves a hole using the shovels that put Reagan away.
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seventhson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-04 09:50 PM
Response to Original message
17. aren't these Clark's old Buddies?
Oh yeah they are
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Democat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-04 10:19 PM
Response to Original message
19. This will backfire if the Democrats are smart - the word is "exploitation"
The Republicans are exploiting Reagan's death and going against the Reagan family with Bush's approval.

If the Democrats are smart and bold and willing to fight, this ad campaign will backfire bigtime.

If the Democrats are silent and wimpy, like they are so often, then it probably won't hurt Bush.

Our leaders should make it a huge issue and scream "outrage" nonstop.
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-16-04 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #19
23. The Democrats could paint themselves in blood and
dance around a bonfire firing rocket launchers in the air chanting "EXPLOITATION" and the friggin' media wouldn't report it. Quit confusing the media's bias as a Democratic weakness.

The media turned Wellstone's funeral into a negative for the Dems, they'll turn Reagan's death into a positive for Bush, somehow.
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Democat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-16-04 01:06 AM
Response to Reply #23
26. Media bias aside, the Democrats have been extremely weak against Bush
Too many Democrats are afraid to stand up to Bush. Republicans never feared standing up to Clinton.

If enough Democrats speak up, it will end up in the media. But they don't like to speak up and when they do, they aren't very good at organizing what they are saying.

We are getting better, but we still have a long way to go to be as tough as the other side.
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-16-04 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #26
28. Byrd, Waxman, Kucinich, Jackson, Pelosi, Kennedy, Doggett
You haven't been paying attention. The Democrats blast Bush with the same frequency the Repubs attacked Clinton. There are two big differences. One, the media loves Republicans and hates Democrats, and two, the Democrats don't have any power to push for impeachment, or even decent investigations. When the Republicans wanted to pretend Clinton murdered Vincent Foster, for instance, or raped Juanita Broderick, they could introduce it into legislation, ask Ken Starr to look into it, and force it into the public discussion, and the media was only too willing to pick it up. But when Waxman catches Dick Cheney red handed giving kickbacks to a company he still receives checks from, Congress ignores it and the media treats it as a minor interest story, somewhere behind the Detroit Pistons win.

THAT's the difference. Learn your enemy, and quit attacking your friends.
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trogdor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-16-04 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #23
30. Hey, Symbolman! I've got a project for you.
A montage of the Reagan funeral, complete with neocons shedding crocodile tears (with appropriate captions), all to the tune of Steve Martin singing "King Tut".
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-04 10:28 PM
Response to Original message
20. Considering Nancy and Ron Jr.think the Bushes are the most evil
and corrupt people in the US, I hope they make a huge embarrassing issue of this. I wonder if they could sue? I know RR is a public figure, but his image could be owned by the estate and it sounds, like in the cae of Diana, that that might be the case!
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bluedog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-16-04 11:51 AM
Response to Original message
29. Ad Link
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-17-04 04:13 AM
Response to Original message
31. so one evil bastard is being used to promote another
that says a lot about Reagan's so-called "legacy".
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salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-17-04 07:01 AM
Response to Original message
32. So Club for Growth like Big Spending, Deficit Exploding Bush?
Guess that aren't the single issue ideological organization that they claim to be, and use that claim to raise all that dough.
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daa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-17-04 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #32
39. Growth = Growth of the DEFICIT nt
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rawstory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-17-04 07:16 AM
Response to Original message
33. NO LONGER TRUE - THEY PULLED ADS FOR NOW
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salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-17-04 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #33
36. Yes... but only for a week.
Out of deference to the Reagan folks. However they plan to resume.

Still think that it is interesting that this "ideologically driven" organization - that claims to try to put pressure on politicians of both parties - to move towards lower spending and more limited government... their rationale for running ads in Ohio and Maine in the 2002 senate primaries against sitting republicans... is now proven to be only about supporting the existing power (those same senators were considered to, at times, buck the administration) given that this administration is the biggest spending (including nonmilitary spending and spending not related to 9-11) administration ever, and that this administration has GROWN big government.

Ah, but when have organizations such as this ever been dedicated to credibility.
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-17-04 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #33
40. A time to mourn, but briefly

<snip>
With Reagan barely laid to rest, the club's zealots - dedicated to the Reaganite ideals of low taxation and limited government - decided to launch a TV campaign advert stressing that, when it comes to fighting evil, President George W. Bush and not John Kerry is the Gipper's rightful heir.
<snip>

President Reagan's family was not impressed. Spokeswoman Joanne Drake complained that no one had requested permission to use the late president's image, "nor would we feel it appropriate to give such permission at this juncture".

Stephen Moore, the Club for Growth's president, now says that "in deference to the wishes of the Reagan family, the club will hold off on airing our latest commercial for one week".

But he's hardly repentant: "We will do all we can to educate the American people about the similarities between Reagan and Bush and the dissimilarities between Reagan and John Kerry."

http://news.ft.com/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=FT.co...

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Darranar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-17-04 08:02 AM
Response to Original message
34. Bush and Reagan deserve to be linked...
as all mass-murdering imperialists need to be linked.
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John_H Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-17-04 09:14 AM
Response to Original message
35. If there's no response from Dems they deserve every point they lose
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