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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 10:29 PM
Original message
U.S. Soldiers to Be Reprimanded for Forcing Iraqis to Jump From Bridge
http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGBRGCASOUD.html

DENVER (AP) - Four U.S. soldiers will be reprimanded for forcing two Iraqi detainees to jump off a bridge into the Tigris River earlier this year, a military spokesman said Tuesday.


There have been questions about whether one of the Iraqis died, but Fort Carson spokesman Lt. Col. Thomas Budzyna said no one was killed.

The soldiers, based at Fort Carson, were part of a 3rd Brigade Combat Team led by Lt. Col. Nate Sassaman, a star quarterback at West Point in the mid 1980s, Budzyna said. snip

There have been conflicting accounts on whether anyone died in the Jan. 4 bridge incident near Samarra, The Washington Post reported last month. Some soldiers at the scene said both men swam to safety, but one of the Iraqis told a U.S. officer his countryman died. A body washed up 10 days later.

more

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UpInArms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 10:37 PM
Response to Original message
1. reminds me of the testimony of William Calley
regarding My Lai -

http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/mylai/...

excerpt:

Q: Did you at any time direct anybody to push people in the ditch?

A: Like I said, I gave the order to take those people through the ditch and had also told Meadlo if he couldn't move them, to waste them, and I directly -- other than that, there was only that one incident. I never stood up there for any period of time. The main mission was to get my men on the other side of the ditch and get in that defensive position, and that is what I did, sir.

Q: Now, why did you give Meadlo a message or the order that if he couldn't get rid of the to waste them?

A: Because that was my order, sir. That as the order of the day, sir.

Q: Who gave you that order?

A: My commanding officer, sir.

Q: He was?

A: Captain Medina, sir.

Q: And stated in that posture, in substantially those words, how many times did you receive such an order from Captain Medina?

A: The night before in the company briefing, platoon leaders' briefing, the following morning before we lifted off and twice there in the village. . .

...more...


"That was the order of the day, sir."
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keithyboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #1
31. Instead of reprimand, how about making the soldiers jump from the same
bridge?
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PartyPooper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 10:38 PM
Response to Original message
2. This is just sick. Everyday I am amazed at what has happened in Iraq.
It seems to get worse every time I log onto DU and read LBN.

:-(
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 06:26 AM
Response to Reply #2
19. Its basically Nazi torture from THUGS, BUMS and BULLIES
Edited on Wed May-26-04 06:26 AM by saigon68
The Lynndie England Syndrome. Or the "KICK THE CRAP OUT OF A RAG HEAD" game of torture and humiliation.

It's like when white mobs Lynched the "Negro".
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ConcernedCanuk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 10:42 PM
Response to Original message
3. Let's see, that would be attempted murder, or at least aggravated assault?
.
.
.

and they get a "reprimand"?

I'm sure that will discourage them from ever doing THAT again!

And the Iraqis get another view at Murikkkan "justice".

.

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Kremer Donating Member (265 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Oh come on, forcing people to jump off a bridge that is high enough to
possibly kill them is a common hazing ritual at most frats. Right?
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T Bone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. right, at least our soldiers were not as bad as Saddam
n/t /sarcasm off
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #7
35. worse in some cases
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 07:30 AM
Response to Reply #3
22. I expect that this crap is so widespread, now, that most of the folks on
the front line in Iraq would have to be punished. So, yeah, I agree, a reprimand isn't going to discourage this crap. Maybe ShrubCo is secretly encouraging this crap?

This is a failure of leadership.
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 10:45 PM
Response to Original message
4. sadistic sick mental midgets with no need for a brain stem
much less a brain.

reprimand? reprimand? gawds...
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DenverDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 11:12 PM
Response to Original message
6. More heroism in defense of freedom.
It's getting a lot harder to support the troops. A lot of them seem like pretty big assholes.

I know, however, that it starts at the top, so it's no wonder that the great war pretzeldent inspires this kind of brave soldiering.

We are now kicking the Nazi's ass for:
MOST BRUTAL WAR MACHINE EVER.
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 06:21 AM
Response to Reply #6
18. About 10% are capable of this
They are THUGS, BUMS and BULLIES. The General poll of Americans indicates 35% of US Citizens would support torture if it saved lives, at least that percent or more of OUR HERO TROOPS would look the other way when Graner was KICKING THE SHIT out of the POWs.

Those are the facts folks


It won't get any better than that

That's why MY Lai happened.
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jmcgowanjm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #18
26. yes, the same 35% who still thinks BushCo has a plan
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 07:31 AM
Response to Reply #6
23. Brainwashing of soldiers by their superiors is a huge issue....
I have been researching this for a while now. It started in the run up to the invasion and apparently has not let up. Most of the soldiers were TOLD the Iraqis were responsible for Sept. 11 and that the average Iraqi taken into custody is a terrorist. It also is a big problem when all they hear on the radio is rush. Here are just a couple of the links I have found. It is dispicable and I am ashamed of America for this...

http://www.occupationwatch.org/article.php?id=868

<snip>
But the one thing that motivates all the soldiers fighting in Iraq is payback for the Sept. 11, 2001.

Specialist Jeremy Sanders, his service officially up during his tour in Iraq, re-enlisted for two more years raising his right hand and pledging to fight all American enemies as a handful of his platoon comrades unfurled the Stars and Stripes.

"Saddam was one of the terrorists," said the 23-year-old.

He chose the timing of the small ceremony in his base in the deposed leader's hometown of Tikrit to mark the second anniversary Thursday of the hijacked plane attacks that killed about 3,000 people.

President Bush may have failed to convince most Americans of a link between al Qaeda and Iraq but his soldiers believe they are on the front line of the fight against terror even if they are skeptical of Bush's justifications for war. "We are the tip of the spear on the global war on terrorism," Maj. Gen. Ray Odierno, the commander of the Fourth Infantry Division headquartered in Tikrit, told about 150 soldiers at a Sept. 11 memorial service.

In a morning speech that began exactly at 9:11 a.m. Odierno told his troops that preventing fresh attacks on the United States depended on the success of their mission in Iraq, where they face car-bomb, mine and mortar attacks from guerrillas.

"If we don't do it here, then it will happen back in the United States," he said in front of a facade of spiral columns and ornate arches at one of Saddam's former palaces.


http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/news/1-05112004-29818...

<snip>
More than a year after Saddam's ouster, no proof of his ties to Al Qaida or Sept. 11 has materialized. Some skeptics suggest that the avenging rhetoric and imagery instead may have fostered an atmosphere conducive to the maltreatment of Iraqis who had no connection whatever to international terrorism.

Curt Goering, deputy executive director of Amnesty International-USA, said the Bush administration bears some responsibility for blurring the lines between Sept. 11 and the Iraq war.

"The tone that was set, all the way to the top, and the climate in which these soldiers operated was an invitation to this kind of abuse," Goering said. "Governments have the obligation to take appropriate steps to protect their citizens, but they have to take these in a manner consistent with respect for fundamental human rights."

The Army's own investigative report, by Maj. Gen. Antonio Taguba, suggested that interrogation techniques used against suspected terrorists detained at Guantanamo Bay were applied inappropriately in Iraq.



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ConcernedCanuk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 08:12 AM
Response to Reply #23
25. Yup - it's pure brainwashing, one method is the "dehumanizing"
.
.
.

The "dehumanizing" transforms the "people" into "things" - or at least sub-human in the minds of the troops.

Call them "gooks, charlie, ragheads" etcetera long enough and the troops no longer see their victims as human beings. After all, they start training these kids (yes, a lot of them are just KIDS fur chrissake) to hate and kill in their middle teens, so it's well ingrained by the time they come face to face with another human they are supposed to kill.

Worked ever since WW1,

Dehumanizing the ones you are supposed to kill is SOP

but I'm confused (not really)

Aren't the Iraqis supposed to be getting "liberated" ??

(sigh)
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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 11:14 PM
Response to Original message
8. Quick: re-re-release those old Saddam torture videos!
"We're better than Saddam, if you include production values."
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qanda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 11:29 PM
Response to Original message
9. This story was reported on an Iraqi blog months ago
Edited on Tue May-25-04 11:32 PM by pbl
The one who was killed is a relative of Zeyad, the blogger from "Healing Iraq" http://healingiraq.blogspot.com/archives/2004_01_01_hea... (January 8 Post)

This is the letter that the mother sent:

In the name of God, the most Compassionate, the most Merciful.

Mr. George Bush president of the United States of America,
Mr. Tony Blair prime minister of the United Kingdom,
Mr. Jacques Chirac president of the republic of France,
Dr. Adnan Pachachi president of the Interim Governing Council,
Mr. Paul Bremer American civil adminstrator of Iraq,
Mr. Kofi Anan general secretary of the United Nations,
The Director of the Red Cross Organaziation,
The Director of the Human Rights Organization,

Dear Sirs,

I write to you in a very distressed state of mind and that may burst my emotions and passions because of the weighty calamity that struck me and my husband after losing our oldest son who was at the tender age of nineteen years. He was looking forward with eyes full of hope and optimism to a bright and eventful future, especially after being engaged to marry a relative of his very recently. He moved forward with all his energy to build their future life with firm and confident steps. But Fate stood in his way and seized him unexpectedly leaving a bleeding wound in the hearts of his parents, his fiance, and his friends and family. Please allow me to tell you my story...

On Saturday the 3rd of January 2004, my son and his cousin were travelling back to our residence in Samarra, they were driving a small cargo truck belonging to a third party from which they earn their livelihood in a country torn by wars and sanctions. Yes, they were back from Baghdad yet misfortune followed them from the beginning, their car broke down on the road which caused a delay in their arrival to Samarra when the curfew hour was just about to start in the city...And this is where the first chapter of the tragedy takes place. An American army patrol stood in their way, and after they went through the whole procedure of searching my son and his cousin, and inspecting the cargo load, they tied them up both and led them to an area about three kilometres from the scene and...in front of one of the gates of the Tharthar dam where water flows at its strongest rate and to my son and his cousin's horror, they ordered them to jump into the water, it was midnight and the cold was unbearable, when they hesitated, they were pushed by the soldiers. Unfortunately my boy cannot swim, even though swimming at this time of the year wouldn't have helped. Yet my sons cousin survived miraculously after he got stuck in a tree branch to give us his account of this tragic event which could have went untold. He tried saving my son, but the water current was stronger than him...After days of search we found my sons jacket floating with the stream, it shall remain with me as a memory and a symbol of the injustice brought against him by soldiers of the United States of America's army, who came to our country under the banners of human rights and democracy only to send my son to his demise on his wedding days...

To document the incident, my son's name is Zaydun Ma'mun Fadhil Hassun Al-Samarrai, born in the 1st of June 1984...Yes, they killed him and they broke my heart, try to imagine that dear sirs and ask your wives how hard it is for a mother to see her fruit ripen only to be thrown by sinful hands and to be swept away without any mercy or humanity. Those soldiers have turned everything America has ever stood for into one big lie. I was a victim, and there are and will be many more.

And that is why I turn to you all and to your respected ladies. And especially to Mr. President George Bush to look into my case and order an investigation of the event. I know that anything you may do will not bring me back my boy, but I wish that the procedures may put an end to the suffering of Iraqi mothers, we are reaping misery every day from actions of American soldiers with no regard to our human life, our dignity, and our culture and values. Maybe the procedures will help me trust (again) the validity of those banners and mottos that fly high in American skies, those which we do not perceive in our country, but instead find their opposites. Maybe such an investigation will support the power of law and justice so that day may not come when the conscience of one of the murderers awakens and confesses to its deeds, which will make it then a responsibility on your great nation.

I am assured that you know terrorism and what is regarded as a terrorist act. Pray tell me have you ever seen or heard about a terrorist act that is considered any uglier than this crime, which was followed by crushing the car and levelling it to the ground by American military vehicles?

This is a question I put to you all and to the international community, and I await a peremptory answer.

Yours sincerely,

In grievance for her son,

The mother of Zaydun Ma'mun Fadhil Hassun Al-Samarrai.

Samarra, Iraq.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 02:13 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. Here's his photo, from your link


He looks like an extraordinarily kind, open person. What a terrible shame. What a sin. He was only 19, too.
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Wind Dancer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 02:19 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. I want this young boy's picture
Edited on Wed May-26-04 02:20 AM by FrustratedDemInNC
plastered on every newspaper, media outlet so the public can see we are treating civilians no differently than those who murdered Nick Berg. We just commit murder differently and cover it up.

Where is the outrage for this young man's life?
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Cooley Hurd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 04:30 AM
Response to Reply #11
16. 19...
Only 19 fucking years old...

I'm so tired of hearing about dead children. :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr:
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Wind Dancer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 02:14 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. These heartbreaking stories never end.
I am sickened and disgusted by what our country has done to these innocent oppressed people. Can you imagine how we are going to feel if another country decides to liberate us? With * in office, I see a dictatorship here that could easily cause another country to come here to liberate us.

I want my country back.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 04:53 AM
Response to Reply #9
17. omg....
that is so sad. I am appalled yet again at the actions of the US.
:cry:
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TrueStory Donating Member (112 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #9
36. they tied them up both and...
Edited on Wed May-26-04 09:12 PM by TrueStory
"they tied them up both and led them to an area about three kilometres from the scene and...in front of one of the gates of the Tharthar dam where water flows at its strongest rate and to my son and his cousin's horror, they ordered them to jump into the water"

In the medieval age this was a very common witch-probe. They tied up the suspect and they throwed in the water. If she could swim out, she was a witch, so she was burned. If she got drowned, she was innocent.
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 01:45 AM
Response to Original message
10. Bad soldiers! (slap)
OMG--some of our boys! (I'm from CO)

Ah Jeez.
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abracadabra Donating Member (152 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 02:59 AM
Response to Original message
14. REPRIMANDED?? this is murder--how 'bout a trial?
slap on the wrist?
I'd guess their fellow American Soldiers may probably end up dying at the hands of revenge seekers.
Violence to the Iraqi civilians is unacceptable even in "time of war".
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truthisfreedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 03:01 AM
Response to Original message
15. hey, but we're not as bad as SADDAM!
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 06:58 AM
Response to Original message
20. Note for news posters. This wasn't the original headline on the AP TBO site
Below is the original headline to this same story which attempted to downplay the murder of this man. When I seen it early yesterday I refused to post it here with such an ambiguous headline. Later in the day AP/TBO changed the headline to the one above. Lesson learned was sometimes it is better to wait for them to be more accurate with their headline before posting it here at DU. Just something to keep in mind.

Don

http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,54...

Soldiers reprimanded for abuse

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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 07:33 AM
Response to Reply #20
24. That first headline is prbably the one that made it to print. (nt)
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markses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 07:18 AM
Response to Original message
21. If a man with an automatic told you to jump off a bridge, would you do it?
Ah, my dear mum used to say that to me all the time... :eyes:
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qanda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 11:05 AM
Response to Original message
27. Kick
For others to see.
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DulceDecorum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 11:28 AM
Response to Original message
28. I must not push Iraqis off bridges.
Edited on Wed May-26-04 11:29 AM by DulceDecorum



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DrWeird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 11:33 AM
Response to Original message
29. "one may have died, but nobody was killed."
what the fuck is this, "The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn"

Aunt: "My Goodness, a boiler explosion?! Was anybody hurt?"

Huck: "Nope. But a nigger got killed."

Aunt: "Thank Heavens."
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. Good One
The N comment about sums it up

The white troops called the Iraqis "Sand Niggers" in Desert Storm I
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yellowcanine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 11:33 AM
Response to Original message
30. Reprimanded? What, they have to serve after school detention and write a
paper about the dangers of jumping into a strong current? This is B.S. At the least, the charge should be attempted murder, and if someone died it should be murder.
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mike1963 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
33. Reprimand? What, a captain stroking his left index finger with the right
and pointing at these guys? (I wonder if there's a name for that
"shame on you" gesture...)
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UpInArms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. isn't that the "tsk tsk" thing? ................... eom
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