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kskiska Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 09:55 PM
Original message
WP: General Is Said To Have Urged Use of Dogs
Wednesday, May 26, 2004; Page A01

A U.S. Army general dispatched by senior Pentagon officials to bolster the collection of intelligence from prisoners in Iraq last fall inspired and promoted the use of guard dogs there to frighten the Iraqis, according to sworn testimony by the top U.S. intelligence officer at the Abu Ghraib prison.

According to the officer, Col. Thomas Pappas, the idea came from Maj. Gen. Geoffrey D. Miller, who at the time commanded the U.S. detention center at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, and was implemented under a policy approved by Lt. Gen. Ricardo S. Sanchez, the top U.S. military official in Iraq.

"It was a technique I had personally discussed with General Miller, when he was here" visiting the prison, testified Pappas, head of the 205th Military Intelligence Brigade and the officer placed in charge of the cellblocks at Abu Ghraib prison where abuses occurred in the wake of Miller's visit to Baghdad between Aug. 30 and Sept. 9, 2003.

"He said that they used military working dogs at Gitmo , and that they were effective in setting the atmosphere for which, you know, you could get information" from the prisoners, Pappas told the Army investigator, Maj. Gen. Antonio M. Taguba, said a transcript provided to The Washington Post.

Pappas, who was under pressure from Taguba to justify the legality and appropriateness of using guard dogs to frighten detainees, said at two separate points in the Feb. 9 interview that Miller gave him the idea. He also said Miller had indicated the use of the dogs "with or without a muzzle" was "okay" in booths where prisoners were taken for interrogation.

more
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A55703-20...
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Newsjock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 09:57 PM
Response to Original message
1. Good grief, a THIRD bombshell tonight
I'm more convinced than ever this is what's behind the faux terror alert.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 12:44 AM
Response to Reply #1
21. This goes all the way to General Abizaid, Central Command Commander
and from him it goes to Rumsfeld and General Meyers.

Heads will roll!
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 09:59 PM
Response to Original message
2. My God, we've come a long, long way, haven't we,
from a state of real barbarism? After all, WE'VE got TECHNOLOGY!

This is stunning. Thanks, sorta.


http://www.wiolawapress.com/generalg.htm
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markses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #2
15. We were picked to pieces by dogs...and that's the way it was and we
liked it...hrrmph!

He looks like Dana Carvey as the Grumpy Old Man.
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5thGenDemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #15
42. To me, he looks like Preparation H Raymond from Conan O'Brien
"Ohhhh...When your captives need a mortal scare,
Raymond's here, Raymond's here,
Turn Fido loose on their derrieres
Raymond's here to help."
John
This is what happens when you choose your generals for their loyalty to Der Fuehrer and to Reichsmarshall von Rumsfeld rather than for their loyalty to the Constitution.
It's a goddamned disgrace.
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UpInArms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 10:00 PM
Response to Original message
3. just keep talking boys, we know you will get to
Rummy and G W(ar Criminal) soon.
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grytpype Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 10:03 PM
Response to Original message
4. Just when you think it can't gets any worse...
... it gets worse.

What's next, "Rumsfeld personally applied electrodes to genitals of interrogated prisoners?"
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #4
37. that would not suprise me...
in the least. He is as warped as chimpy*.
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qanda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 10:08 PM
Response to Original message
5. We're getting closer and closer to the top
I believe we will eventually reach the CIC, who should be impeached!
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alittlelark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 10:09 PM
Response to Original message
6. These Generals need to be put in a room with these dogs
w/o their handlers keeping them under control.

I love dogs, and am disgusted by those who would use torment and teasing 'training' to turn them vicious.
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shraby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Go Washington Post!!!
Keep the pressure on. Nail these bastards to the wall where they have no wriggle room left.
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 10:17 PM
Response to Original message
8. Miller will be wanting to spend some more time with the family soon n/t
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 10:18 PM
Response to Original message
9. It has been very clear all along that this stuff was sanctioned.
Edited on Tue May-25-04 10:20 PM by TahitiNut
There's no way in the world these folks went to Baghdad's "Pre-owned Instruments of Torture" store and devised a dozen methods that would be particularly humiliating and agonizing for Arab people. You don't get two full CD's of digital photographs and videos scattered over the web and scattered over the world's email boxes when the soldiers have "gone out of control." No way. No how. This goes to Rumsfeld. It's beyond any reasonable doubt.

Wolfowitz visits Abu Ghraib in mid 2003. Rumsfeld visits Abu Ghraib in September 2003, as the "enhanced interrogation techniques" are in full swing.

Q: What were they so eager to get from interrogation?
A: "Where're the Weapons of Mass Destruction evidence!"

Q: And what would be the objective of such interrogation?
A: Purely partisan politics.
No military goal whatsoever. No "democratization" goal whatsoever.
Partisan politics.
:puke:

And there's rape and murder, too. :puke:
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Well Said, Mr. Nut
There is really not anything to be added, my friend.

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 12:18 AM
Response to Reply #9
18. Don't forget Bush's November visit
Prisoners are kept at the airport too, apparently "high-value" prisoners. Bush may have wanted his own peek.
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grl2watch Donating Member (560 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 07:48 AM
Response to Reply #18
33. Daleo, You Have Just Begun the Impeachment Proceedings

I had FORGOTTEN that B* sneaked over to Iraq without
telling anyone -just like Cheney- and it was not just for
breakfast with the soldiers.

Were Miller and B* in Iraq around the same time period?
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crossroads Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 10:28 PM
Response to Original message
10. Maybe the dogs acted alone???
Ya think?
:shrug:

This is sickening!
:puke:
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 07:55 AM
Response to Reply #10
34. The military trained dogs can almost talk, but for sure they can read
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Barkley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #10
38. Good One!
You've got me laughing out here in California!

Kick!
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spooked Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 10:47 PM
Response to Original message
11. Important thing is that the soldiers FELT PRESSURE FROM THE PENTAGON
to use these tactics so that they could gather "information"!

"A U.S. Army general dispatched by senior Pentagon officials to bolster the collection of intelligence from prisoners in Iraq..."


That pressure had to come from Cheney & Rumsfeld & Bush who needed to capture Saddam (they already knew there were no WMD's)

The ones putting on the pressure are the ones who are guilty.
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gatlingforme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 08:02 AM
Response to Reply #11
35. I agree, but it is also the soldiers ignorance and lack of
an education that contributed to this fiasco. They picked these particular soldiers - I think - just for that reason.
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truthisfreedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 10:53 PM
Response to Original message
13. yes, but don't you understaaaaaaand? we still aren't as bad as Saddam!
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 10:57 PM
Response to Original message
14. Significance of dogs
In Islamic cultures, dogs are considered unclean. The Somalis that I tutored in English considered it taboo to touch a dog and thought it was gross that many Americans keep dogs as pets.

If the Iraqi attitude towards dogs is similar to the Somali attitude, then siccing dogs on Iraqi prisoners would be like siccing sewer rats on a North American.
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PurityOfEssence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. It just gets better and better, doesn't it?
The use of dogs, even if one has no religious or cultural problem with them, is still hideous. The photos of the naked man cornered by dogs and their handlers is the most terrifying thing I've seen yet. Yes, the Klannish Inquisition guy in the hood with the electrodes is the most powerful iconic image, but the naked guy with the dogs is the most scary.

This is the truth of the Bushies' brutality: they want us to be so hated that we all have to band together with them and subjugate the world out of necessity. The ugliness morphs and mounts to a demoralizing degree, but there is one bright spot: anyone defending these curs (four- and two-legged) will be on record as having done such, and they will have to publicly pay for doing so. This debt will be made good with their careers and reputations, and this is just fine by me.
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 07:47 AM
Response to Reply #16
32. It takes a long time to get to the truth doesn't it.
Amazing that just now we find that Colonel Thomas Pappas was the man in charge of the torture chambers. Also it appears that Major Gen. Miller and Col. Pappas are in disagreement as to what was policy. Pappas was under Miller.

Major General Miller was the commander of the military detention center at Guantanmo Bay. Who was implemented into Abu Ghraib by Lt. Gen.
Ricardo S. Sanchez, the top U.S. military official in Iraq.

Lt. Gen. Sanchez is being relieved of his position in Iraq and being replaced by Army vice chief of staff, Gen. George W. Casey Jr.

captain, Donald J. Reese blew the whistle on Sanchez.

Brig. Gen. Karpinski was in charge of the prison.

junior's plan is to destroy Abu Ghraib prison, hurry up and prosecute the seven bad apples and forget about the horrors of this abuse and say we abide in the Geneva Convention.






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SOS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #16
43. The photo you reference
was just the beginning. Both dogs were loosed on the victim and that "interrogation" ended with the man on the floor in a pool of blood.
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Mayberry Machiavelli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 05:53 AM
Response to Reply #14
27. Significance of dogs is also that they can bite a big chunk out of you,
as they did in the unreleased "followup" photos of the first "terrorized" prisoner.
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Barkley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 08:57 AM
Response to Reply #14
39. Thanks for this information!
Its very helpful.
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 12:16 AM
Response to Original message
17. "Mad dog Miller"
A good nickname always helps to solidify a reputation.
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Disturbed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 12:38 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. Sanchez & Miller
Didn't they both lie to the Senate?
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. This seems to be becoming indisputable
There must be some kind of penalty for that.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 01:27 AM
Response to Reply #17
25. I'd love to see that name stick. n/t
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 12:48 AM
Response to Original message
22. I can see it now at a Court Martial
"General who gave you the order?"

"Nobody"

"You are under oath" The man gets increaslingly nervous. "Again who gave you the order?"

"It came from the civilian leadership at the Pentagon..."

"And...."

"The Vice President's office, and the Commander in Chief."

Of course I can also see Jack Nicholson going into a rant of all the dark places he has gone so I can go into bed and sleep at night, not that I have been able to sleep over the last at least three years.
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Don_G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 12:51 AM
Response to Original message
23. Dogs Are Okay
The CIA's experience with drugs didn't work out too well 50 years ago, but I can always authorize a crack sniffin' pit bull to make the Taliban think about their next bowel movement.

<scarasm/off>
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 01:14 AM
Response to Original message
24. War Criminals, Here Come De Judge....... Damn.
Its falling apart. Bush can't escape now. All the fingers will soon be pointing to Rummy and him.

I gonna get the popcorn now.
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 05:57 AM
Response to Reply #24
28. This is why Bu$hler
desperately needs another terrorist attack on US soil.

The torture scandal gets worse everyday, Iraqnam is a major FUBAR, Afghanistan is failing apart, gas prices are at all time highs, and W's rating are in the toilet. The only thing that will save his sorry ass now is a terrorist attack so that he can impose Marshall Law on the US.

I'm sure Osama will come to the rescue soon.

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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 07:25 AM
Response to Reply #28
30. Osama wants to humiliate Bush, not help him stay in power.
Osama wants to dictate by terror in a wise way and helping Bush stay in power is, IMHO, not one of them.

The Bushits are warning America for attack this summer. This time Bush wants an attack as you imply. I am not too sure it will come. If anything, Greece more likely, or England.
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 07:37 AM
Response to Reply #30
31. LOL
Edited on Wed May-26-04 07:38 AM by DoYouEverWonder
Don't you know, that Osama is still on the CIA payroll? I know, the checks are still cut by the Bank of Saudi Arabia but the funds come from the US. That's why the US gave Osama that free helicopter ride out of Tora Bora. Osama is their man and they can always count on him to deliver.






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Dhalgren Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 08:09 AM
Response to Reply #28
36. This is something that I can't really parse out,
so a little help might be nice. If there is a big terra attack in the US, then Bush is a failure - he can't protect us and his "Endless War" was a sham. Then, again, if a big terra attack occurs, Bush is the "War President" and everyone is supposed to rally round him and "stay the course". The only way I can see Bush being a "hero" is if a terra attack is "thwarted" - then he is our "Great Protector" - but, terra must be worse, not better, so he loses again. I, too, see a "terra attack" as a means to establish martial law, but will the country go along? At this point, I just don't know.
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #36
41. What better way
to turn the US into a police state? Especially, if you know there is no way in hell you can be reselected and you have no intention of giving up power?


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Mayberry Machiavelli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 05:50 AM
Response to Original message
26. Did they really expect all these junior people to take the fall and say
nothing? It will be interesting to see how it all plays out...
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dusty64 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 06:44 AM
Response to Original message
29. The evidence mounts, this DID
come from the very top. Interesting timing on the vague "terra" threat, huh and the corporate media slurps it right up.
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truthspeaker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 09:14 AM
Response to Original message
40. looking for a photo; Abu Ghraib dogs and Jim Crow dogs side by side
A DUer posted it a couple weeks ago. It had an Abu Ghraib photo of guards threatening a prisoner with dogs on one side and on the other a photo from a 60s civil rights march where a cop was using dogs to menace black demonstrators.
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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
44. Hey, even the lowliest SS Man understood the role of dogs in frightening
prisoners, be they Iraqis at Abu Ghrahib or Jews at Birkenau.

This is old knowledge. The Busheviks were just emulating Grandpa Prescott's Business Partners.
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Chicago Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
45. The Government is Fallling like a Bomb...
its over.......


They have lost...

the war is over

we have lost even if we win.

Its a great victory and I feel like shit.
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yellowcanine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
46. The fact that Miller, Pappas, Sanchez, Rumsfield and Wolfowitz are still
drawing taxpayer financed salaries tells us that the Bush administration has no intention of addressing the root causes of the prisoner abuse scandal. It may aslo tell us that the rot extends to Cheney and Bush - otherwise why the reluctance to cut their losses? Bush has decided he can survive this with a fancy extended tap dancing routine combined with attention-diverting flourishes of the hat and cane.
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