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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 02:03 PM
Original message
C.I.A. Bid to Keep Some Detainees Off Abu Ghraib Roll Worries Officials
WASHINGTON, May 24 The Central Intelligence Agency's practice of keeping some detainees in Abu Ghraib prison off the official rosters so concerned a top Army officer and a civilian official there that they reached a written agreement early this year to stop.

An undated copy of the memorandum was obtained by The New York Times. It was described as an agreement between the Army intelligence unit assigned to the prison and "external agencies," a euphemism for the C.I.A., to halt practices that bypassed both military rules and international standards.

snip

The memorandum provides the clearest indication to date that military officials were troubled by the practice even before General Taguba wrote his report.

snip

In an e-mail message on Monday, Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt, the top military spokesman in Iraq, declined to comment on the undated memorandum. To do so, he said, "might compromise the fairness, integrity and impartiality of ongoing investigations."

more, lots more!

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/25/politics/25ABUS.html?...


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Cronus Protagonist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 02:21 PM
Response to Original message
1. Abu Ghraib is Bush's Watergate
Criminals caught doing illegal shit for the Executive Branch, and this time it's not just a burglary, it's torture and murder.

Click here for stunning, insulting, shocking, funny buttons, magnets and stickers
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
2. Well if this is W's Watergate
then he better hurry up and at least learn how to pronounce it.

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Robbien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 02:54 PM
Response to Original message
3. This story is very confusing
Does this mean the CIA were grabbing individuals, not arresting them but just torturing them for information? Why would they bring these people to a jail which is not under their control?
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mitchtv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. also families of fugitives whae been grabbed
don't want any lawyers near them.
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. I read it as the CIA sent a memo stopping actions that
bypassed both military rules and international standards.

"An undated copy of the memorandum was obtained by The New York Times. It was described as an agreement between the Army intelligence unit assigned to the prison and "external agencies," a euphemism for the C.I.A., to halt practices that bypassed both military rules and international standards."

This raises the very key question, who gave the orders to bypass both military rules and international standards because if there was an "agreement between the Army intelligence and external agencies", CIA, there had to have been an original order okaying the practices.

That's how I read it, anyway.
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Robbien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. So the intelligence agencies wanted to stop the practice
That leaves regular military and those privatized agencies, right?

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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. I think it leaves the question who, in the chain of command, ...
Edited on Tue May-25-04 03:19 PM by Spazito
authorized the practices in the first place. This memo takes the CIA out of the equation most assuredly and brings in the Pentagon.
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. eeeYUP!!! Remember,....the CIA "dropped out" in late 2003. n/t
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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. It leaves the OSP and certain elements of military intelligence...
...but not the DIA. The OSP cut the DIA out of the loop quite some time ago...the DIA got even with the Chalabi-Iran spy story.
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keithyboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 02:57 PM
Response to Original message
4. I can't put all the pieces together yet, but this seems to MAJOR!!!
I think this might be the real 'smoking gun.'
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 02:57 PM
Response to Original message
6. Was Berg on a roster?
:tinfoilhat:
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 03:00 PM
Response to Original message
7. OMFG!!! Hit the dirt!!! Major infighting!!!
NOBODY is in charge,...EVERYBODY is a chief.

Whew!!!
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 03:26 PM
Response to Original message
11. ok..the cia is not a bunch of nice guys
Edited on Tue May-25-04 03:27 PM by rchsod
the guys the cia has are not a bunch of nice guys..what the cia was pissed about is that the army and rummies special unit were screwing up the interrigations so bad all info was useless. also the cia realized early that the people that were in prison were innocent or were low level operatives who knew nothing. now the whitehouse is further blaming the cia to deflect their role in this disaster of historical porportions, i mean in the history of all warfare..
the plame affair has made the cia realize the true enemy are the guys who run the whitehouse...besides the iranian disaster, just how much information has been shared with israel? how far has the idf and mossad gotten into our security agencies???
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 03:31 PM
Response to Original message
12. "external agencies" probably not limited to CIA
lots of "external agencies" involved in Abu Ghraib.
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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. But not the CIA...remember, they backed out when the OSP and some...
...military leaders wanted to greatly expand the use of torture on the Iraqi detainees.
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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
13. Sorry, but it wasn't the CIA that was trying to "hide" detainees...
...it was the OSP. That's the group that they're referring to as an "external agency" in the memo.

Remember, the CIA wasn't involved in the torture in Iraq because the OSP and some of the military leadership wanted to include quite a few more people than just high-value targets.

Even the DIA has been blowing the whistle on the OSP.
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. OSP and "SAP",...
,...someone posted that these "special" elite whatevers were separate,...but,...I don't think so.
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. Do we know what civilian policy makers at the Pentagon...
are also in the OSP? Rumsfeld and Feith for sure, I wonder who else?

I found this interesting article on the OSP:

http://www.forward.com/issues/2003/03.06.06/news6.html
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Robbien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Josh Marshall is talking about this article
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Feith is James Bond in the field? - amazing egos
absolutely delusional. Just when you think they can't get any more pathetic or ugly. I really do believe the whole lot of them are all strung out on prescription meds.

I am not kidding.
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. Unbelievable!
They are playing sick games with this: "... and a James Bond, who is identified as "SOS, Agent in Charge."

This is SO sick!
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