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angka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 10:12 AM
Original message
Tancredo's newest anti-immigrant bill defeated
http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36~53~2169866,...

"Proponents of an amendment to the Colorado Constitution that would have made it unlawful to provide state services to illegal immigrants have killed the initiative after it became clear they couldn't raise enough money to get it on the November ballot.

The initiative was the brainchild of U.S. Rep. Tom Tancredo, R-Colo., who billed it as a counterweight to a guest-worker program announced by President Bush in January."

more...
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coloradodem2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
1. Tancredo is an idiot.
I know that we have to have rules for immigration but that is inhumane. Anyway you cut it this is stupid.
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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. Let's Deport Tom Tancredo!!!!
:-)
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denverbill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. I wish. Unfortunately, he is hugely popular.
I honestly don't believe most of his constituents are racist, but they are definitely against the massive illegal immigration that's occurred over the last 10 years.

IMO, Democrats need to rethink this issue because we SHOULD be on the side of American workers, who are the big losers when a flood of illegal immigrants starts taking blue collar jobs in the US. I get the impression that most legal Hispanic immigrants also support a crackdown on illegal immigration, because they are competing for the same jobs as well.
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coloradodem2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. I don't know if he is hugely popular.
Most moderates don't like him. The Republican party hates Tancredo. There are not many people who like him.
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denverbill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. I could be wrong. I hope I'm wrong.
But didn't he win reelection by like a 65-35 margin or something last election?

I agree that most moderates are appalled by his actions (trying to get that honor student deported, etc), but I think, by and large, they strongly support his stand against legalizing all illegals and for guarding the borders.
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dumpster_baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #7
16. he is not popular with the political and social elite, or with those who
....ape their views. But when it comes to the actual citizens, he is actually popular (see his 70% reelection numbers). But who gives a damn about what the citizens want?
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coloradodem2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 12:37 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. Part of the problem is that previos Dems did not campaign hard enough
His current opponent, Joanna Conti said that she asked hundreds or thousands of Moderate Republicans in CD 6 what they thought of Tom Tancredo. Only 8 said that they were proud to have him as their congressman. Many others were disgusted with him. Furthermore, he has been quite ineffective. His biggest accomplishment last year has been renaming a community center in Arizona.
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Sandpiper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. How bout we support American workers
By severely fining businesses that use illegal labor rather than just give them a slap on the wrist. It's always easier to kick the powerless in the teeth though.
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denverbill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. That's what was 'supposed' to happen in the 80's.
Reagan pushed through a reform that legalized millions of illegals, but put tight new controls on employers. Every new hire was required to produce and the company to photocopy 2 forms of id (drivers license, birth certificate, passport, etc). It was a real pain in the ass (I was in a position where I had to do some of that stuff back then).

But that requirement seems to be being absolutely ignored these days. I find it very hard to believe that every single person I see working construction, or janitorial, or landscaping, or working at Wendy's has actually produced those forms of ID.

Illegals wouldn't come to the US if they couldn't get jobs, and they wouldn't be able to get jobs if these laws were even haphazardly enforced.

I'm all for legal immigration, and I think it's wonderful when poor people from another country are able to come to America and escape poverty and help their families. I wish we could take every poor person on the planet. Unfortunately, we can only help so many, and we have to look out for our own people first.
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amandabeech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. I have read that the problem is high quality fake IDs.
Edited on Tue May-25-04 06:46 PM by amandabeech
Employers must accept as valid all IDs that appear authentic on their face. My understanding is that only badly botched fakes may be rejected. There is apparently a booming business in fakes at the borders.

Under at least some circumstances, employers may check the validity of IDs after the employee is hired by calling the Social Security Administration or IRS. These agencies are able to tell employers the name and other identifying information associated with that SS# or IRS ID. It is possible that an employee named, for example, Juan Martinez claiming to have been born in San Antonio would have the SS# originally given out to Joseph Polanski of Warren, Michigan. However, this is rarely done, as I understand it.
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denverbill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #13
19. Well, it does seem like a pretty simple step to take.
You set up an online site where you enter a name and SSN and get a returned OK or NOT OK.

No privacy violated. If it comes back NOT OK, either you don't hire or you tell the guy you can't hire til he clarifies the info with Social Security.
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hughee99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. If we fine businesses for hiring illegals,
but don't do anything about illegal immigration, then we're just going to have a whole bunch of people here who can't get jobs. Since they can't get jobs, they won't be able to legally make money to pay for things, and our public services will be screwed because we now have to pay for their services as well. If we could stop illegal immigration, then we could start to resolve the problem. Until then, everything is going to be all screwed up no matter what we do.
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dumpster_baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #8
15. yeah, but we need more illegal labor to keep the proles scrambling!
Edited on Tue May-25-04 08:16 PM by dumpster_baby
So therefore we need as much illegal (and legal) immigrant labor as possible, the better to flood the labor supply and drive down prices of maids and carpenters and plumbers and engineers so that the rich yuppies and investors can continue buying the most expensive SUV's, you silly goose!
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Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 10:28 AM
Response to Original message
2. Hold up....
I have no problem with LEGAL immigrants, don't get me wrong. But don't we encourage ILLEGAL immigration if we just keep giving them hand-outs? As someone that has family and friends that would kill to become legal U.S. citizens, but can't because quotas are set too low thanks to the influx in illegal immigration, I feel we should do everything possible to deter people from illegally entering this country. Crack down on the illegals and raise the quotas for legals. People that actively WANT to be a part of our country should rightfully be given preference.
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Gin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. I agree....the words legal and illegal define the issue. We need to
stop the flow of illegal immigrants to this country.

This is a huge issue for almost all of the states and will not go away unless we take hard decisive actions.
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mulethree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #2
14. not just quotas
Edited on Tue May-25-04 07:28 PM by mulethree
People who want to immigrate but don't have family or jobs waiting here and sponsoring them. they seem to go to the end of the list and end up paying someone to 'facilitate' a green card marriage or engagement so they can get here. Lots of indentured servants because they still owe someone $25K for 'helping' their immigration along. They'll work in a kitchen or nail salon or such for 5+ years before they 'work it off'.

The illegal immigrant population proves there are 'places' for unsponsored, low-skilled immigrants - thru legal channels. If we are reliant on the illegals then there are millions who could fill their places legally if given the chance. And we get benefits like a secure border, payroll taxes and an end to numerous local/federal law enforcement noncooperations.

The only advantages I see to illegal versus legal immigration come from the 'illegal' status. More employer leverege and more easily disposable if they get disabled or age out of the work force.
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Vogon_Glory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 10:44 AM
Response to Original message
5. The Congressman From Columbine High
The Congressman from Columbine High School took a hit.

Good.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 06:31 PM
Response to Original message
12. He's going to have a career he can look back upon with real pride, not.
I have NEVER heard him speaking when he wasn't carping and bitching about immigrants. Odd, unpleasant man.

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slaveplanet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 01:59 AM
Response to Reply #12
18. I've heard many interviews
with tom Tancredo, The only immigrants I've heard him carp and bitch about were ILLEGAL immigrants. It's important to add the the ILLEGAL part don't ya think...
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dumpster_baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. But most Americans want less legal AND illegal immigration

Poll after poll after poll after poll shows that Americans OVERWHELMINGLY want less immigration, period, including less legal immigration. EVERY poll I have seen shows 50, 60, 70 percent of Americans want less immigration--legal and illegal.

What the heck is wrong with a politician who tries to carry out the wishes of the goddamn people who elected him?! Isn't that what congressional reps are supposed to do? And when Tancredo speaks out against immigration, he does so with the support of the people, and the antagonism of the establishment. No one could possibly convince me of anything else.

Now, THAT is a politician that I like, even if he is a Republican. Right the GOP is completely in the grip of the neoconservatives, but the paleoconservatives are a better group, in all.

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