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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 08:33 AM
Original message
Iraqis say U.S. soldiers steal during house raids
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L25669694.htm

BAGHDAD, May 26 (Reuters) - Besides the scandal of abused prisoners, there is another, more pervasive problem Iraqis say they suffer daily at the hands of U.S. troops -- theft of money and other property during aggressive American raids.

Over the past 14 months of occupation, U.S. forces have carried out literally thousands of raids on homes across the country, routinely seizing money, jewellery and other property from Iraqis suspected of "anti-coalition activities".

Items are generally confiscated out of suspicion that they could be used to finance attacks against U.S.-led forces, and the U.S. military says it has had some success in cutting off funding for insurgents via the policy.

But Iraqis say the raids often target the wrong people, are carried out in an aggressive, even destructive manner and complain that lifetime savings, precious jewellery and family heirlooms are regularly stolen in the process.

more

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Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 08:35 AM
Response to Original message
1. of course they do
The balance of power between the occupying soldiers and the occupied population is too great. Who's going to stop them? The innate goodness of America?

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Spoon Donating Member (401 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 08:42 AM
Response to Reply #1
7. I have a question.
Edited on Tue May-25-04 08:43 AM by Spoon
When Kerry gets elected (and doesn't pull our troops out), and claims like this are made, will people here be less likely to believe it? Keep in mind, the US government isn't the only body capable of propaganda.

Officials like Clinton are pushing for MORE troops sent to theater, and if you haven't noticed, hardcore conservatives have been hedging their bets recently, and coming out for bringing the troops home.

I can see a role reversal coming soon...
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Jacobin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #7
12. Not me. I'll be criticizing the HELL out of Kerry
until he pulls the troops out.

His IWR vote was a disastrous mistake and he'll pay dearly for it by continuing the carnage. NO ONE from outside Iraq is going to be able to "secure"(read occupy and oppress) Iraqis, including Kerry.

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Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 09:06 AM
Response to Reply #7
20. you're wrong
After Kerry is elected, it will be just as true that occupying soldiers will committ theft, rape and murder against the occupied population, with impunity.

And in case you believe all the crap you hear on TV that no one on the left protested Clinton's action in Kosovo, don't. It's a lie. I was at one of the protests.

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Spoon Donating Member (401 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 09:22 AM
Response to Reply #20
24. Sure, there were protests. But if/when Kerry deceides
to stay the course (even with UN help), will the majority of Dems no longer push for a complete pullback? (I should have said "majority of Dems" in the first place, not Dems on this board)

UN help does not mean the end of the violence. Ask Sergio Vieira de Mello, if he weren't dead.
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Jacobin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 09:30 AM
Response to Reply #24
34. I don't know if you are old enough to remember the 1968
Democratic National Convention in Chicago.

Anti war democrats rioted, there were police muggings of demonstrators, and then trials.

The antiwar movement will NOT go away. Trust me.
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #34
39. I'm Old Enough
And the more stridently anti-war people would be colossal fools to pull that stunt again.
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Dhalgren Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #39
64. Don't be an ass.
The Chicago riot in '68 wasn't a "stunt"; it was a street battle where American citizens put their lives on the line for their country. No one was (or is) suggesting that there be anti-war rallies on a par with '68 at this year's convention, but later on...

When people begin fighting in the streets for what they believe, then "colossal fools" are those who don't take notice and don't seek understanding. The Dems in '68 didn't - we'll see what they do in '04.
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #20
26. And therein lies the difference between the two parties bases.
Mindless v. mindful.
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htuttle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 08:36 AM
Response to Original message
2. Afghanis were saying the same thing
Maybe looting and pillaging is another one of those offenses that Gonzales decided was 'outdated' and didn't apply to US troops?

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Alerter_ Donating Member (898 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 08:41 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. looting and pillaging are always part of war
only in the US do we pretend that we're different.
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Guy Whitey Corngood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 08:37 AM
Response to Original message
3. THEY'RE LYING.
Just like they lied about so called prison abuses.......oh wait never mind.......
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qanda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 08:39 AM
Response to Original message
4. It's only a few bad apples, so stop saying that!
A spokesman for the U.S.-led coalition said he was aware of Iraqi complaints of theft during raids and said some U.S. soldiers had been disciplined for "inappropriate conduct". But he said the problem was "very rare, extremely rare".
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #4
48. Dadgum those rotten apples
"If the husband is hauled off as a suspect, the family has lost its breadwinner and often lost its savings and cash as well," he said, pointing out that a recent Red Cross report quoted said some army officers estimated that up to 90 percent of Iraqi detainees are innocent."

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Don_G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 08:40 AM
Response to Original message
5. Of Course
Can't have a war without a few war souvenirs to show the folks back home.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 08:48 AM
Response to Original message
8. Deleted message
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 08:54 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Yes, the average ones say this.
You won't see the others. (Well, YOU won't see them because you're over out here out of harm's way.)

The others tend to prefer car bombs to suicide bombers. They're their oil wells, not ours.

And I believe we're ahead in killing 8-year-olds.


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CulturalNomad Donating Member (123 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 08:54 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. your not serious are you?
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lumpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 08:54 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. Educate yourself.
It's a good thing. Evidently you have an interest in this war. I advise you to research and start thinking for yourself.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #11
19. Deleted message
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Jacobin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 08:57 AM
Response to Reply #8
13. Dude. Go google an Iraqi poll
Latest one says 82% of the Iraqis want us OUT of their country NOW.

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Imperialism Inc. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #13
37. And typically those are the more 'upwardly mobile' Iraqis.
Edited on Tue May-25-04 09:36 AM by MiddleMen
The ones with phones or that live in nice areas. The business class basically. So these 82% are people that by all right should support the US if anyone does, since they are the ones doing business with us.

I really can't say that for sure about that particular poll, however I know most of the ones I have seen have been polling that particular segment of the population. Which makes sense, I don't think you'll see many pollsters going to the bad sections of town, where people don't have phones, just to complete a poll. Pretty obvious when you think about it.

So, to answer the original poster's question, Which Iraqis? The Iraqis most pre-disposed to like us.

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #37
56. Deleted message
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Ripley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 08:57 AM
Response to Reply #8
15. Hahahahah!
Got a link for the 8 year-old with an explosive on his back? I think you mixed up your wars and countries. Buy a globe.
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qanda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. That's what I was thinking
But they all look alike, so it doesn't matter if you make that mistake.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #17
23. Deleted message
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Maeve Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #23
28. The issue is not "Al-Queda" but Iraqis
Please don't change the subject.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #28
30. Deleted message
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Jacobin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #30
35. You're right. When Saddam was in power, he kept them out
We have created the chaos in Iraq that enables them to function.

And if you think its ONLY al qaida that is fighting americans in Iraq I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #35
43. Deleted message
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Kinkistyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #43
54. Shiites are HARDLY "Saddam Loyalists"
Americans are screwing up the country. By dropping bombs on kids and raiding houses (and subsequently stealing shit).

You speak as if though if another country came and did this crap to YOU you'd throw flowers at your "liberator's" feat. But then, maybe you would...
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #54
65. Deleted message
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #65
67. IT'S THEIR COUNTRY THE US IS NOT WANTED THERE BY 85%
of the people. Besides Saddams gone.
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Maeve Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #30
40. I didn't say that--please stick to one subject
You said that (some) Iraqis are sending 8-year olds out with bombs on their backs. Then you switched to Al-Queda as ones doing such. No evidence of any such incident in Iraq has been presented.
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #40
44. It's here to start a flame War
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Maeve Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #44
69. It got rocked
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #30
42. About 10 Aq guys and a lot of pissed off Nationalists
Who want the US colonizer out of there.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #30
61. psst.....
Edited on Tue May-25-04 10:27 AM by leftchick
Turn off faux and read this....


http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/iiss...


LONDON (AFP) - The US-led war on Iraq (news - web sites), far from countering terrorism, has helped revitalise the Al-Qaeda terror network, the International Institute for Strategic Studies (IISS) think-tank warned.

The London-based body said in its annual Strategic Survey 2003/2004 that the deadly train bombings in Madrid in March, the worst terror strike in Europe for more than a decade, showed that Osama Bin Laden's terror network "had fully reconstituted".

snip

But another legacy of the war was what the IISS termed a highly questionable recourse to pre-emptive strikes as a means of counter-proliferation, as well as "the uses and abuses of intelligence as a basis for military action."


The IISS said the United States, which has dominated world affairs since the end of the Cold War, had failed to understand that Al-Qaeda's September 11, 2001 attacks were "a violent reaction to America's pre-eminence" and it urged the superpower to temper "the appearance of American unilateralism".

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Ripley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #23
29. You didn't show me that link for the 8 year old.
Can't find it? You really are very uninformed if you think Al Queda is putting bombs on children to become suicide bombers in Iraq.

Maybe you should buy some Swiffers, you know the duster that's on a stick and run it through your brain.

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 09:30 AM
Response to Reply #29
32. Deleted message
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Ripley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 09:33 AM
Response to Reply #32
36. You have zero logic.
Who here is defending al Queda? Who cares if you "dis" them?

What proof do you have they are in Iraq?

You still never showed me the link for the 8 year old boy being a suicide bomber in Iraq....I'm waiting.
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lumpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #23
31. Al Queda
If you are implying that Al Queda was operating out of Iraq you'd better get your facts straight; first of all educate yourself about mideast countries and try to distinguish one from the other. The 'action' is, primarily, in Israel/Palestine, Iraq,and Afghanistan. Don't you want to be better informed that your President?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #31
38. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Ripley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #38
41. Goo goo, gaa gaa.
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhh! My fearless leader is screwing up and sinking like a rock! Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaah, gurgle gurgle.

Unhinged.
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #38
45. ADIOS
)))))PING(((((((((
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #38
46. Iraqi Resistance Fighters.....
ever hear of them? I did not think so...
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Imperialism Inc. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #38
51. It seems you haven't read the posts that you responded to,
so it seems a little odd.

You come in saying Iraqis send out 8 year olds, but can't provide a link. Then you change it to al Qaeda as if the 2 were somehow interchangable. When someone calls you on both of those things you act as if that is an endorsement of al Qaeda.

Are you insane? You mean to tell me we "have" to believe everything you say or we support al Qaeda, even though you cannot provide proof of your statements , nor can you apparently understand the difference between al Qaeda and Iraqi citizens or resistance fighters?

I'm guessing your stay here will be very short.

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lumpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #38
52. It has not been fully determined
that Al Queda was involved in the Berg beheading. Implied, however, by the administration flunkies. Proved, no.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #52
55. Deleted message
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Ripley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #55
57. You still here?
So, let me get this straight.... AQ are monsters who strap bombs on their children in Iraq, yet you believe everything they say on TV to be true? So they're honest monsters?

You do know that Smirky opened up Iraq and invited AQ to come on in and have a barbeque, don't you? In fact I think it was Rummy that said it was to be used as a piece of flypaper. Yep, that I'm sure endeared the US to the Iraqi people that happen to live on the giant bug magnet.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #57
58. Deleted message
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #58
60. OJ is playing Golf
And the Iraqi Resistance forces are busy blowing up Baghdad today. What is your point that Al Queda runs Iraq?
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 09:11 AM
Response to Reply #8
21. wow I must have missed that story!
Which Iraqi sent out his eight-year-old out with explosives strapped to his back? Have a link please, inquiring minds want to know?
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NMDemDist2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #8
22. link please? where did you get that?
and sending 8-year-olds out with explosives strapped to their backs?

enjoy your stay at DU
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 09:22 AM
Response to Reply #22
25. His "STAY" will be short
LoL
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 09:30 AM
Response to Reply #8
33. Who in Iraq sent their kid out?
Really like to see where that happened.

Oh it was that Iraqi who attacked the twin towers--- his kid?
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #8
62. yup it`s all those people
you are talking about ,dam you are right,i`m glad you brought this up..now i see the error in my beliefs about this war..your insightful post has now changed me so much, i am going to vote for bush. yes i want to thank you for your help.....now go back to your buddies and tell them what you have done..they`ll be proud of you...
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jukes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #8
68. did you visit us because you're a master baiter?
you shd call this into "rush" so you can have a receptive audience.



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CulturalNomad Donating Member (123 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 08:57 AM
Response to Original message
14. Since we take their lives - a few belongings is a better sentence....
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #14
27. Then looting some home-- of money needed for Food, is OK?
Edited on Tue May-25-04 09:48 AM by saigon68
That's a new fresh approach-- I guess since the oil companies have the oil--- the Thug troops from the hills need to get their LOOT also EH?
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Warren Stuart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 08:59 AM
Response to Original message
16. We complained about this in the Declaration of Independence
We are doing a lousy job of inculcating our values onto the Iraqi people.

Democracy without elections.

An end to human rights violations by violating human rights.

Free Speech by shuttering newspapers.

Respect via humilation.

Peace through "Spray and Slay".

Mass graves, rape rooms, depraved disregard for human life, Yeah we got that.
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ze_dscherman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 09:02 AM
Response to Original message
18. Opportunity makes thieves
There's nothing new to it - in every war, some soldiers took the opportunity to steal. Who will complain about it? And who will hear their complaints?

However, it's the plight of the occupier to re-instate rule of law.
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KansDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 09:41 AM
Response to Original message
47. Does this sound familiar?
Items are generally confiscated out of suspicion that they could be used to finance ...(insert crime here)

It seems we've imported the ol' Forfeiture and Seizure Act used in the War on Drugs.
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #47
50. This has allowed the police to Loot homes in theUSA
All in the guise of CRIME FIGHTING

The cops use this a lot in Black Neighborhoods-- where THEY ALL KNOW THAT 16-29 year old Black males are CRACK DEALERS
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funkybutt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 09:48 AM
Response to Original message
49. CHECK out eBay
there's all kinds of Iraqi stuff on there. I'm sure it wasnt' given to our troops.
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #49
53. They didn't pay for it either
Stolen property
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Columbia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #53
72. Actually
Edited on Tue May-25-04 11:35 PM by Columbia
Many of us DID buy things in Iraq. They were generally sold at a greatly inflated price too.
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 10:17 AM
Response to Original message
59. some of those items
will be up on ebay when the troops get back..don`t worry ebay won`t do anything... now that`s winning the hearts and minds of the people,one theft at a time...
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Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 10:25 AM
Response to Original message
63. It is called Looting ~ Rape ~ and ~ Pillage
We are every bit as good as ol' Genghis Khan. Ain't Amerika grand?
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callous taoboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 10:36 AM
Response to Original message
66. Well-
I know for a fact that one of their soldiers used to regularly break into houses in his neighborhood back in high school.
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 10:47 AM
Response to Original message
70. oops
Username: Incipient
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dArKeR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 11:05 PM
Response to Original message
71. US troops accused of theft after home raids - IOL
By Luke Baker

Baghdad - Iraqis accuse United States troops of stealing money and other property during what they say are aggressive and even destructive American raids on homes that can devastate families socially and financially.

"It's a huge problem. Almost everyone has something to say about gold, money and other valuables going missing and they don't believe they'll ever get them back," said Adel Alami, a lawyer with Iraq's Human Rights Organisation.

Over the past 14 months of occupation, US forces have carried out thousands of raids on homes across the country in which money, jewellery and other property have been seized from Iraqis suspected of "anti-coalition activities".

http://iol.co.za/index.php?click_id=3&art_id=qw10855065...
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