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trof Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 08:42 AM
Original message
Physician, remove thy germ-infested necktie
By TU THANH HA
Tuesday, May. 25, 2004

Watch out next time you're examined by that neatly dressed doctor wearing a necktie.

Nearly half of the neckties worn by medical personnel are contaminated with bacteria, researchers at a New York hospital have found.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPSt... /

Yet another reason to ditch the most evil piece of "clothing" ever invented.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 09:31 AM
Response to Original message
1. Doctor prescribed medicines are the 4th leading cause of death.
Edited on Tue May-25-04 09:31 AM by bemildred
80% of prescribed drugs are not proven effective.
Results of drug trials are not public record.
Modern medical care is dangerous to your health.
You cannot simultaneously maximize profit and quality.
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kevinhnc Donating Member (121 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Its called a randomized controlled trial...
Trust me, many a drug company has failed because of them. I wouldn't be so quick to discredit medicine in general, but we do face a lot of challenges. 80% sounds like way to many for that to be a credible statement.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. I am a mathematician, I know how it is done, when it's done right.
While US acute care is quite good, if you can get admitted,
hospitals are themselves dangerous places, to restate the
cliche, people die there. The 80% number is from Lynne
MacTaggart, founder and editor and chief of "What Doctor's
Don't Tell You", p22 of the June issue of Ode. One must
concede she wants to sell her newsletter. The quote:

"For 80% of the medicines we take, it has not been proven
that they work. Medicine is the fourth highest cause of death
after heart disease, cancer, and stroke."

This is not scientific truth, but it is quite consistent with
my experience. The only satisfactory interactions I have had
with modern US medicine were acute care. In other settings it
is always some bozo trying to get you on some drug regimen or
another on the basis of a 5 minute interview and a form you just
filled out yourself, and he could give a shit what you want or
what you think about much of anything.
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kevinhnc Donating Member (121 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 01:52 AM
Response to Reply #4
16. Mathmatician, heal theyself
Edited on Wed May-26-04 01:52 AM by kevinhnc
Quote from above:
"While US acute care is quite good, if you can get admitted,
hospitals are themselves dangerous places, to restate the
cliche, people die there"

Hmm, maybe people die there because they go there when they are, I dunno, maybe really sick? Wanna know something, people get better there too! However, you and Lynee MacTaggart don't mention much about that.

Not a personal attack, but everyone complains about health care, but where is the first place they want to go if they have appendicitis, heart attack, etc.? A hospital! You're comments are really uninformed, and maybe you should try a different, better doctor if your experiences have been so bad. :)

<edit: sp>
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. You deny that people get sick from being in hospitals?
You deny the existence and danger of iatrogenic disease and death?
Physician, heal thyself. The lack of humility in the medical
profession is pernicious and ubiquitous. I was quite clear about
the usefulness and effectiveness of acute care when needed. If
I had the need, you may be sure I would begin a search for a good
doctor, but it is not an easy task. My brother has diabetes, he
spent years looking, and finally found a woman of African origin
who actually listens and is helpful to him in managing his disease.
My comments are quite informed.
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THUNDER HANDS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 09:41 AM
Response to Original message
3. what's wrong with ties?
I love ties. I have a massive tie collection, even though I don't know how to actually tie one.

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LizW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Well, think about it
How often do you wash or dryclean your neckties? Probably everything else a doctor wears gets washed but his tie. That's why the germs stay there, I'd guess.

My doctor had on a pink tie the day my son was born. I remember him throwing it back over his shoulder before he bent down to check the progress down there. He changed into scrubs, however, before the main event.
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dArKeR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 10:58 AM
Response to Original message
6. What is the purpose of a necktie? Why do people wear them?
After you answer that one then answer high heeled shoes too.
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shanti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. i dunno about neckties
but high heels are supposed to make a woman's legs look sexier by lifting the calf. :shrug:
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dArKeR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. I always thought women looked sexier in gym shoes and blue jeans
and a t-shirt. And personality trumps all.
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shanti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. it's nice to hear that!
(coming from someone who very rarely wears heels). i want to be in COMFORT when i walk, and you'll see me in birks or tennies before anything else.

i don't know how so many women can do this every day, but i notice that it's mostly short women (something i'm not)...hmmmm....
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dArKeR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 12:58 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. Forgive me, I thought women became smart in 1970 but it seems they're
Edited on Wed May-26-04 12:59 AM by dArKeR
getting stupider by the day (with respect to clothing, make-up and 'how I look'.

I saw a CSPAN show, about 3 months ago, with a Muslim woman who has came to the US with here parents when she was a child and now she's about 30. The panel jumped on her about such repressive customs on women in the Arab world. Here repsonse was, 'I can't go out of the house in the US without make-up on. If I do, people look at me with disgust. My American friends put pressure on me to wear make-up but none of my Arab friends or family do. I don't like putting moose in my hair. Everywhere I see that a woman should have a nice ass and breast or they're not desireable to men. Talk about oppression!'
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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 03:12 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. The woman is so right.
I think in many ways Islamic women have it better off. I've seen interactions between male and female Muslim teenagers and I was surprised by how much respect the boys showed for the girls.

I'll admit, my looks and sexuality have benefitted me at times, but I certainly would prefer to have the sexual tension removed from most interactions, and I agree there is enormous pressure on women to look sexy to get any positive attention from men. While I would never want to give up my rights to an education or a means of self-sufficiency, I wouldn't mind being less objectified, and that paritcularly would have been nice in High School
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mulethree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #7
19. emphasize the sway of the hips, lengthens the leg 3"
and send the message "here's a woman who will live with foot pain and mobility constraints every single day just to compete with other womans legs"
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. It is an obedience ritual. nt
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donsu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
10. ties/suits have turned into dogma

men can be such nitwits, wearing suit/ties decade after decade, as if life would end if they had to conduct business without a suit and tie.

(women too, who wear highheels 'for the men'. we only have one life to live and we are supposed to live it for someone else?)

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demnan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 01:27 PM
Response to Original message
11. Just another reason to favor
women doctors
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
12. Seems like a pretty simple way to improve quality
and one that won't cost anything, either. Infections are a serious problem at many hospitals and clinics and every little thing that can be done to halt their spread is a step in the right direction. The tricky part is spreading the word throughout our fragmented healthcare system.

If anyone's interested in the straight story about the quality of care in US Hospitals (and much of American medicine in general), there's an outstanding Boston Globe exspose about Don Berwick, Head of the Institute of Healthcare Improvement, that outlines some of his criticims and his suggestions for transforming the system. He's the real deal, folks.

Also, if you're a little more technical minded (or simply curious) you might want to check out the Institute of Medicine's shocking report: To Err is Human. It really opened a lot of eyes among healthcare professionals and policymakers.
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-04 01:11 AM
Response to Original message
15. Doctors who wear lab coats don't have that problem,

but I'm all for discarding ties. High heels should go, too.
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