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Army may be sending training base troops to Iraq

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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 06:59 AM
Original message
Army may be sending training base troops to Iraq
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/usatoday...

The Army, pressing to meet the need for combat troops in Iraq (news - web sites), is making contingency plans to deploy an elite unit whose mission is to play the enemy in rigorous field exercises. It is the latest sign of the Army's personnel crunch, say some experts.


The 2,500-member unit called "OPFOR," or opposition force, trains Army armored units in maneuvers at Fort Irwin in California, a sprawling base in the Mojave Desert just south of Death Valley where exercises are intended to simulate real combat.


Ali Bettencourt, an Army spokesman at the Pentagon (news - web sites), said the 11th Armored Cavalry Regiment at Fort Irwin has not yet received orders to Iraq but is among those units being looked at.


"The OPFOR is among some of the best trained units we have in the Army and they are a deployable unit," Bettencourt said.

more

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teryang Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 07:08 AM
Response to Original message
1. This article is a five, "deeply shocking"
Edited on Tue May-25-04 07:09 AM by teryang
<"The thought that OPFOR is now being thrown into the mix in Iraq is deeply shocking because it absolutely shows where we are now," said retired Army colonel Kenneth Allard, an author and lecturer on military history and strategy...><snip>

<"We are in a period of great strategic vulnerability," retired Army general Barry McCaffrey said. If current trends continue, he said, "the U.S. Army will start coming apart next year.">

This is it. The alarm bells are going off. These stopgap measures won't even come close to maintaining our forces abroad.

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Earth_First Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 07:18 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. The alarm bells are going off.
to you and I they are going off, most seem to be sitting idly by...
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dusty64 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 07:26 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. And chimpy's handpicked
audience last night "went crazy". Crazy all right. This is disturbing so I expect it to get next to no media coverage.
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izzie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 07:57 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. Well they should have, they are men who like war.
It is a war college for upper grades from around the world. Bush seems to like uniforms and war.
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dusty64 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 08:27 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. I may be mistaken,
but didn't this same college come out with a report detailing how chimpy's war was a disaster in the making and unwinnable?
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LagaLover Donating Member (500 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 08:37 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. You are mistaken, but only slightly so
It was an article by a faculty member (or may have been a student), it was not a War College study.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #13
27. It is like the ones publised by Harvard
they are knwons as Harvard School of Medicine Studies, but they
were written by a faculty member... no different
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 08:42 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. I don't have it handy, but specifically remember a highly critical report.
Edited on Tue May-25-04 08:43 AM by Just Me
I heard one of the Bushco "talking heads" state that an exit plan is not important but rather a "plan for victory" is in our future. Of course, "victory" within the realm of PNAC involves another world war which could go on for a very long time.

I've never felt so concerned for the future of my only son. Having endured a series of hard knocks over the last few years, I feel almost powerless to protect him from a potentially destructive future generated by the recklessness of our neocon-controlled government. Geez, I sure could use a turnaround of fortune,...I need a streak of good fortune.
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grytpype Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #11
16. Yep.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A8435-2004Jan1...

Study Published by Army Criticizes War on Terror's Scope

By Thomas E. Ricks
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, January 12, 2004; Page A12

A scathing new report published by the Army War College broadly criticizes the Bush administration's handling of the war on terrorism, accusing it of taking a detour into an "unnecessary" war in Iraq and pursuing an "unrealistic" quest against terrorism that may lead to U.S. wars with states that pose no serious threat.

<much more>
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #16
19. That's the one I remember. Thanks. n/t
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Iceburg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #11
17. You are correct -- paper published by 2 senior faculty members (link)
"Reconstructing Iraq: Insights, Challenges, and Missions for Military Forces in a Post-Conflict Scenario," written by Conrad C. Crane and Andrew Terrill for the college's Strategic Studies Institute, was published in February 2003.

The paper accurately predicts the current problems in Iraq
http://www.indystar.com/articles/1/149582-7641-010.html
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #11
26. Bingo
why he had to be there, to counter that report

Karl Rove knows what he is doing
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #7
24. Another mis representation
nobody, and I repeat NOBODY hates war more than those who are sent
to fight and die in them

The ARMY is NOT behind the chimpster, yesterday's audience
COULD NOT under ANY CIRCUMSTANCES boo the COmmander in Chief

I take it YOU have never been in uniform, hence you have no clue,

They CANNOT show any displeasure.. they are doing it in some
craetive ways

By the way, guess what is circulating at the highest levels RIGHT
NOW?

The Coup of 2012... do a web search, Bush has crated the
conmditions marked in that essay.
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mulethree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #7
36. It's a lousy war, but it's the only one we've got
quote from ? some military guy at vietnam time

Meaning military types need an occasional war, they're resume's are incomplete without some actual combat or war experience.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #3
23. Repeat afrer me, MANDATORY FUN TIME
They had NO CHOICE

Get it through your skull
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teryang Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #23
30. AKA Command Performance
...by the audience. These men are the future high level leadership of the Army. If they look cross-eyed at someone during the event, their careers are over.
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izzie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. Can we blame this on Clinton?
Life must go on in the Right Wing and they need someone to blame.
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MarioJumps Donating Member (4 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 08:30 PM
Response to Reply #1
34. And yet the question remains
why are Kerry and other high profile dems mute on the fact that BUSH IS GOING TO HAVE A DRAFT?

For an issue that could by its self win us an election the silence is enough to almost make me think they WANT to lose in november. There is MORE than enough evidence to make this case to the people.
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UpInArms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 07:31 AM
Response to Original message
4. This is definitely a case
of "eating the seed corn".

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trof Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 08:05 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. "eating the seed corn"-My first thought, EXACTLY!
Great minds think alike.
;-)
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jeff5 Donating Member (97 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #4
35. More like feeding the seed corn to the livestock...
This unit is as good as anybody in the world at Armor tactics. Last I checked there are no Armor battles taking place in Iraq, so we are using our best as IED fodder.

Good thing Rumsfeld is doing such a "superb job"...

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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 07:37 AM
Response to Original message
5. The bullshit is getting thick now isn't it?
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Ganja Ninja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 08:23 AM
Response to Original message
9. And after these guys are used-up then what?
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htuttle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 08:24 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. The Salvation Army
Followed by the Knights of Columbus.
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Ganja Ninja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 08:31 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. LOL! When do we start getting down to the champaign units?
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NickB79 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #10
31. LOL, Austin Power's flashback
"Leader of the militant wing of the Salvation Army."
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74dodgedart Donating Member (513 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 08:51 AM
Response to Original message
15. Send in the Ditto-head brigade
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Coventina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #15
18. Yeah! Where the fuck are they?
All these fuckers who supported this war????

"When the going gets tough......the freepers run and hide!"
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Az_lefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Yep..
the war supporters need to start sending their kids to the recruiting office.....but who's going to be left to train them?
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jpgray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 12:03 PM
Response to Original message
21. Wow. We are really stretching the limits here.
:(
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Insider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 01:10 PM
Response to Original message
22. and one of korea's two comabt brigades also?
didn't i read that a couple weeks ago? again, it's either insane for the good of the country, or perfect for the execution of their twisted plan.

either way, sigh.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
25. But, but, but, how will we train the draftees? nt
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UpInArms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. training in the field of battle only .........eom
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. I was thinking a couple weeks of playing Doom(tm).
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Gloria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 07:03 PM
Response to Original message
32. Wasn't Wes Clark at Ft. Irwin? Didn't he do oppositional work?
If so, it will be interesting to see if he speaks to this.....
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. Yes, he had a good deal to do with training at one point.
He was the boss of TRADOC, or whatever they call it these days.
I don't know that he ever ran OPFOR as such.
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