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ze_dscherman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 05:25 AM
Original message
Sacred Shia site damaged in Najaf fighting
One of the most sacred Shia sites in Iraq was today damaged in clashes between US forces and fighters loyal to the radical cleric Moqtada al-Sadr.
After the battle in the holy city of Najaf, during which at least nine fighters were killed, angry crowds gathered to inspect the damage to the Imam Ali shrine.

Al-Jazeera television showed a torn veil covering the door to the inner shrine, and damage to the wall above it. The pictures also showed several casualties lying on the floor of the mosque compound.

The inner gate of the shrine, leading into the tomb of Imam Ali Ibn Abu Talib, appeared to have been hit by a missile. Witnesses said the shrine had been hit by rockets or mortars, although it was not clear which side had fired them.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1224237,00....

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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 05:33 AM
Response to Original message
1. Ask Gen Boykin if he approves of this
He's getting a large woodie
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 05:34 AM
Response to Original message
2. BOO!
HISS!!! :mad:
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 05:43 AM
Response to Original message
3. You wanna get a whole bunch of Iraqis and Iranians ticked off?
This is the way to do it! I predict that even those Islamic sects who don't revere Imam Ali will see this as a threat against Islam. You think Boykin is getting aroused? Think of Osama bin Laden-this is the best way to recruit people for al Qaeda.
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crushbush04 Donating Member (153 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 05:57 AM
Response to Original message
4. The idea that any building
is sacred just because anyone says so is in opposition to any belief I hold.

No brick and mortar building, church, mosque or temple constructed by men should ever be deemed sacred.

How pompous. Who made this a holy site? Why is it any more holy than the building on the corner down the street? Maybe I should make my house a holy site.

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dbt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 06:02 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. All well and good, but
There would be a smiliar reaction right here in the US if a church were bombed. When any group of humans says a site is holy, it's holy. Done deal.

:freak:
dbt
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crushbush04 Donating Member (153 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 06:19 AM
Response to Reply #5
9. All it takes is
a group of people? then maybe I should get a couple together and let them declare my house holy.

Its all crap, and leads to the same old philosophy of supremacy. My site is holier than yours, then my religion must be better than yours. Ergo I must be better than you. No one is

A church is just a building. A mosque is just a building. Its what is being practiced by the occupants of the building that can make it a special place.

People and their lives are sacred not the bulidings.

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ze_dscherman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 06:24 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. Please explain: Is it o.K. to blow up someones holy site?
Would you like your personal belongings to become vandalized? Like, love letters used as toilet paper? After all, it's just the value YOU give them - it's only paper, isn't it?
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crushbush04 Donating Member (153 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 06:38 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. Where did I say it was ok
to blow up a "holy" site? My problem is that there is any such thing called a "holy" site in the first place. Did God almighty in his ultimate wisdom come down and bless this or any other site.

I am not for blowing up anything. And I just wish people would respect each others lives as much as they respect these stupid buildings.

It would really help to read and get the point before getting into a hissy fit.

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ze_dscherman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 06:43 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. I did not mean to say you o.K. blowing up things
This was just a provocative question, because I feel it very important to respect other peoples values.

Also, I totally agree with you: "And I just wish people would respect each others lives as much as they respect these stupid buildings."
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Magleetis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 08:27 AM
Response to Reply #9
15. Maybe in your
mind and your religion sites are not holy. Are you sure that the people in Iraq believe as you do? America is full of ethnocentrism and it is ugly.
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ze_dscherman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 06:05 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. YMMV
I do agree with you, however, other peoples believes are different. Almost any religion I know of has some kind of sacred site - and desecrating it is VERY offensive to the people that share that value system.

You may differ, but you should always RESPECT others. If you don't, be prepared they will react accordingly.
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 08:30 AM
Response to Reply #6
16. Yup, don't expect to get respect if you're unwilling to give it. n/t
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Cooley Hurd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 06:15 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. It's rather pompous to "intentionally" fail to undertstand...
...why the Shi'as view the shrine as a sacred site. It's that kind of thinking that has gotten us into this mess to begin with.

That said, welcome to DU... :eyes:
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Cooley Hurd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 06:11 AM
Response to Original message
7. (pardon the pun, but...) Holy shit...
The coalition better be prepared for a radical escalation of fighting, because if this doesn't bring al-Sistani and his followers into the fight, then nothing will... :scared:

This horrible-mistake-of-a-war is lost, yet they want to send more troops into the flames. All I can think of is the young German boys who were forced to defend Hitler's bunker at the very end... :grr:
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 06:24 AM
Response to Original message
11. US Military already denying they did the damage!!
just heard it on CNN while they were showing video of angry Iraqis at the shrine. WTF is the US doing?!? MORANS!!!
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 08:14 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. Blowing things up?
:shrug:
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keithyboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 08:46 AM
Response to Reply #11
17. A hole in the top of mosque? Only Americans would do this.
A shot from overhead?
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salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-04 08:50 AM
Response to Original message
18. and just last night bushjr said that us troops were respecting
holy sites/buildings, while still clearing out the bad guys.

Given how the media suggested that one of the major audiences for last night's speech was the Iraqi population - I doubt that his claim - in face of realities that they see (this, of course, gets little play in the US) builds the credibility is desperately needed before some stability/security/safety is reached on the ground.
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