Three Key Witnesses in Abuse Scandal Refuse to Testify

[Scairp]

This the first I have heard of this.

WASHINGTON — Three key witnesses, including a senior officer in charge of interrogations, refused to testify during a secret hearing against a ringleader of the Abu Ghraib prisoner abuse scandal on the grounds that they might incriminate themselves.

The hearing, held in Baghdad last month, marked the first time that commissioned officers tacitly implicated themselves in potentially criminal activities in connection with the growing scandal over prisoner abuse. And it came at a time when sources here and in Iraq said that the filing of new charges against other defendants may be near.

In addition to the Army lieutenant colonel who helped oversee military intelligence gathering at the sprawling prison compound in Iraq, the captain who was Cpl. Charles A. Graner Jr.'s direct supervisor also invoked his right against self-incrimination. So did a civilian contract employee who assisted with interrogations.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/iraq/la-fg-prison19may19,1,6028530.story?coll=la-home-headlines

[MikeG]

1. I know how to get them to talk.

[k in IA]

3. Panties on the head? or how about giving someone immunity

to get to the bottom of things?

[MikeG]

9. Naked twister.

[k in IA]

17. That is a scary thought. I'd talk.

[alfredo]

39. Immunity is only for those who could damage bush and cheney

Once given immunity, they say only what is approved by the junta, then go on their merry way.

[crossroads]

29. Play loud tapes of Bush.. giving speechs...over and...over! They'll snap!

:kick:

[Steven_S]

2. Good thing we still have a 5th ammendment...

Is this a great country or what?

[oldhat]

5. Democracy

Democracy, ain't it grand? You see, in this country, when the government accuses you of a crime or asks you to testify, the rule of law forbids self-incrimination. Sadistic government thugs can't beat you to death and pack your broken body in ice, force you to crawl through glass, rape you, strap a dog leash around your neck, force you to masterbate or force you to fellate another man in order to get you to confess. You even have the right to a lawyer!

I love this country.

[KAZ]

35. "Right to a lawyer"?

Does the name Jose Padilla ring a bell.

[BeFree]

37. Nothing is perfect

And some things in our system are prone to corruption. Padilla is a case in point.

Oldhat makes a very good point: Overall, this democratic system when administered correctly, ensures a great deal of justice to the People.

The point being that our action in Iraq is at 90 degrees to the American ideal and therefore stand illegal and opposite to our fundamental foundation.

Corruption be damned!!

[goddess40]

47. I didn't think it applied to the military?

It didn't help Clinton when they were asking him questions that were no ones business.

[Nlighten1]

4. Maybe they need to be loosened up?

[Scairp]

8. No, no, no

The term is "softened up". Geez, you haven't gotten your torture lingo down pat yet?

[saigon68]

12. NO VIGOROUSLY THRUST A BROOMHANDLE UP RECTUM

Works every time =--- ask Cpl Graner !!!!!!!!!!!!

[shanti]

14. nothing the NYPD don't know about, eh?

or does anyone remember??

[Scairp]

16. A handle but not a broom

I believe it was the handle of a plunger. I guess seeing as how they had the guy pinned down in the bathroom it was handy.

[k in IA]

18. He had major internal injuries. That was so nasty. I still

can't believe they were doing that crap to people.

[playahata1]

26. This case is very well known on and off DU.

ABNER LOUIMA

And don't forget the 41 shots to body of AMADOU DIALLO, who was merely taking out his wallet to produce some form of identification.

[TryingToWarnYou]

40. 41? try 19

Get your facts straight.

Louima was hit 19 times.

[Jeff in Cincinnati]

42. 41 shots, 19 hits

In addition to be an appalling statement about the state of human rights in New York, it's also an appalling statement about the state of marksmanship in the NYPD. The officers were practically at point blank range for crying out loud.

[truthspeaker]

44. Off-topic: Amadou Diallo is the best argument for concealed-carry

If the cops are going to assume every black man is armed, they might as well arm themselves and maybe have a fighting chance.

[crossroads]

28. Who could forget?

:kick:

[rebellious woman]

45. Thinking same....had picture in one of the overseas mags..

[PolJugglr]

6. This whole scandal is snowballing out of their control

There are so many new stories and allegations coming out that prove that what the administration is telling us are lies that it is hard to even focus on any one.

hmmmmm perhaps there is something to that! I can't keep them all straight in my own head!!!!

But the proof that it goes higher than the "few bad apples" is becoming ENORMOUS.

[hedda_foil]

7. Swell.

Darby, the whistleblower, is mysteriously absent and then:

"Eugene R. Fidell, an expert on military law and president of the National Institute of Military Justice, said no soldier is allowed to invoke his 5th Amendment right against self-incrimination unless he knows his testimony would indeed leave him open to criminal charges.

"You can't assert it unless you have a belief that there is some criminal exposure,'' he said. ``That's why people do it.''

Fidell said that he has never heard of a case where every prosecution witness called to the stand refused to testify, but added: "I can't say I know of any case that is like this one either.'' He added: "People take the Fifth out of an abundance of caution. People are aware of their right not to incriminate themselves. That's been hard-wired into military justice for several decades.''"

[Union Thug]

13. They could pull a ray-gun

...and simply say that they cannot recall. Hey, one could lie deserves another, does it not?

[0007]

33. Ah yes, turn on the light and watch the cock a roaches run!!

Murder, Rape, Blackmail.....Hmmmmmmm

[Union Thug]

10. Simple...

Put them in a stress position and kick them. How hard can it be?

[bluedeminredstate]

15. Better yet,

how about attack dogs looking at their naked genitals as a snack and getting perilously close to taking a nibble? Who wouldn't start singing with that as an incentive?

:think:

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. Officers invoking the fifth Ammendment

WHOOHOO! Ah the smell of spiraling out of control

What can I say?

This is GOOD NEWS for the troops and for us... sooner or later bloody fingers will point at George.

[UpInArms]

19. gosh! why would they do that?

I wonder if they gave their victims the opportunity to "use the Fifth" to prevent "self-incrimination"?

Nah, that would have shown that they respect humanity and the laws of the US and the Geneva Convention.

Oh - forgot - they never heard of the Geneva Convention. /sarcasm mode stuck on

[opihimoimoi]

20. Now they are but a step away from being labeled WAR CRIMINALS

Subject to trial at the Hague.

[DivByZero]

24. * had uncanny "foresight": remember this proud moment?

"The Bush administration may fear prosecutions for the crime of aggression"
The U.S. government's hypocritical opposition to the ICC

and this

American Foreign Policy and the International Criminal Court

[opihimoimoi]

27. Welcome aboard SecretEgo

The Bushies go about using delusional Rationalization as excuses for their misdadventures...a bad tactic and it will come back to haunt them...as it is now whatwith those photos of abuse/crimes re the prisoners.

We are supposed to be a Good Force? Evidence shows otherwise,

[Erika]

21. The Freepers and Lucianne

think that our torture, degradation, and humiliation, of citizens of a country we invaded without invitation, is only hazing. Just OK, just relaxation for bored U.S. troops. Nothing to concern ourselves with. Right? We invade, decimate, and occupy another country without cause and we can call our torture to that country's citizens hazing? God forgive me if I ever get as shallow and ignorant as the right-wingers have become. Our country stands higher than that regardless of the war-mongering tone Bush and his neocons have set.

[PaDUer]

23. Those mentioned above

are SICK TICKETS!

[central scrutinizer]

32. It's even worse than that

Many of them actually approve of the treatment as just giving it back to the terrorists. Here is a letter to the editor printed in yesterday's local paper to give you a taste (ick!) of their mindset:

"Let's get the job done in Iraq

How many more American heads have to roll before President Bush gives the order to destroy the Islamo-terrorists whenever and wherever they are found, particularly in Iraq? Whether it be in a mosque, school, hospital or civilian enclave, war is hell and those terrorists who choose to sacrifice their own kind for their despicable causes must take the blame for the collateral damage they cause.

Remember Germany's Dresden and Japan's Hiroshima and Nagasaki? Without those dramatic attacks on the enemy during World War II, Americans would have had to suffer millions more casualties before winning the war. The enemy would, no doubt, have suffered many more of the same with an extended war.

It is time for President Bush to quit playing the self-conscious American with a guilt complex and see this war for what it is: a war of ideologies, a war of moralities, a war of religious conquest and, last but not least, a war of envy and hate. The only way of winning this war is to destroy those who fight it and those who support it.

As a well-known U.S. corporate logo states: Let's "just do it." And the American people urge the president: Let's get it over with.

All the media maniacs, Democrats and other liberals who are continuing to undermine America's war effort in order to gain profit or power at the expense of our country's security and economic stability should bow their heads in shame."

[BeFree]

36. "Let's get the job done"

Just when was it that America declared war on the Iraqi people? Anybody?

I remember we kinda, sorta declared war on Saddam, and WMD, but I do not recall US ever declaring the Iraqi People to be our enemies.

But that is who we are at war with -- The Iraqi People.

Bring Our Troops Home. Now!

[calimary]

48. A war of religious conquest. Okay. Nice to have confirmation that

some people here really do regard this as a Crusade. Well then, the answer's simple, right? Let's just blow up half the world. America-hatred isn't just confined to Iraq. Not anymore, certainly. I wonder if this letter writer has someone who's butt is on the line over there now, and whether he or she would be as bloodthirsty in such a case? Well, considering some of these people, I guess not. Too many just don't have a problem with feeding their sons or daughters into that meat grinder over there.

[Disturbed]

22. Rule of Law

Maybe the US should try enforcing the rule of law within the prsion systems in Amerika and their prisons in other countries? Just a thought.

Watching a bit of TV I notice that many are stuck on the idea that no torture has taken place in US prisons in Iraq, Afghanistan or Gitmo, just harmless humilitation. That is why the rest of the photos and videos must be released to the public.

[PaDUer]

25. Exactly..

get letters/petitions and hand deliver them to your nearest congressman's office so they KNOW the people are serious and the pix/videos must be shown..The congressman don't want to put off their constituents because they know it'll be the end of them. Don't let them utilize the media to continue brainwashing the public because this goes right to the TOP.

[maddezmom]

30. Lt Col Jordon, Capt Reese, Adel Nakhla (Titan contractor)

When the Graner hearing convened in Iraq, the first government witness to refuse to testify was Lt. Col. Steven L. Jordan, who as director of the Joint Interrogation and Debriefing Center at the prison oversaw the military intelligence operations.

He would have been a significant witness because Graner and the other accused guards maintain that the military interrogators encouraged them to intimidate and "soften up" detainees so they would be talkative in interrogations.

In a report on the abuses written by Maj. Gen. Antonio M. Taguba, it was recommended that Jordan be relieved from duty and given a General Officer Memorandum of Reprimand

~~~~~~
In the Taguba report, it was recommended that Reese be relieved from duty as the platoon leader and given a General Officer Memorandum of Reprimand. He too was accused of failing to train his soldiers in the proper treatment of prisoners of war; failing to "properly supervise" his soldiers on Tier 1; and "failing to properly establish and enforce basic soldier standards, proficiency and accountability."
~~~~~
In the Taguba report, Nakhla was questioned about what happened to several detainees who were suspected of rape. He said they were forced to remove their clothes and then were ordered by Graner and Staff Sgt. Ivan L. "Chip" Frederick II, another defendant, to admit they had committed rape.

[Spazito]

34. Thanks for the names...

I was wondering if they were public, it will make it easier to track them and see if they are charged, especially the contractor, seeing as I have read that they might have immunity.

[Judi Lynn]

31. This could get strange...........

From the Times article:

Just a week after the hearing, on May 3, the judge, Maj. Dewayne McOsker Jr., ruled that there was enough evidence to proceed. He cited a CD-ROM containing photographs and videos taken inside the prison showing detainees being abused and humiliated, along with written statements from four of the other six guards implicated in the scandal.

"I believe there is enough credible evidence to establish reasonable grounds" that Graner is guilty, McOsker concluded.

Eugene R. Fidell, president of the National Institute of Military Justice, said no soldier is allowed to invoke his 5th Amendment right against self-incrimination unless he knows his testimony would leave him open to criminal charges.

"You can't assert it unless you have a belief that there is some criminal exposure," he said. "That's why people do it."
(snip)

Thanks a lot, Scairp. Very interesting.

[Just Me]

38. This drama is better than "A Few Good Men".

Amazing. I'm trying to remember whether I have ever heard of members of our military taking the 5th. By so doing, are they prima facie guilty of some crime? I guess so. Are they trying to protect not only themselves but others as well and if so, whom? Are they grabbing onto the chain of command rope and pulling the house down,...or what?

This is just,...crazy.

[hayu_lol]

41. Taking the 5th...

Remember Ollie North?

[Zerex71]

43. Just lovely.

Abu Ghraib is going to go down as another Bergen Belsen, and not because of Saddam.

[colonel odis]

46. put them into the general prison population, unarmed.

payback's hell.