Powell: Arab world should be more outraged

[patriotvoice]

'No excuse for silence' after American's beheading

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/05/16/powell.berg/index.html

DEAD SEA RESORT, Jordan (CNN) -- The Arab world should be showing "a higher level of outrage" over the death of an American businessman whose beheading was posted on an Islamist Web site last week, U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell said Sunday.

"There's no excuse for silence on this kind of murder," Powell told NBC's "Meet the Press."

--
On edit: Holy Crap! Does the man not understand irony?

Powell said that there was "no comparison" between Berg's killing and the revelation of abuses at Abu Ghraib prison by American soldiers.

"All this kind of behavior is unacceptable in the modern world," he said on "Fox News Sunday." "Torture of any kind is unacceptable."

--
On edit (2): Cross reference:

Powell: Arab Response to Berg Insufficient

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=2&u=/ap/20040516/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/us_iraq_2

[shraby]

1. The administration

just couldn't take the attention away from the torture story could they?? Well I have two words for them...TOUGH SHIT!!! :mad:

[freeforall]

2. Waaaaah! They're not outraged enough.

What kind of bullshit is this?

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Piperay]

18. Neo-cons

appear to be getting worried, eh??? You better worry because chimp is going to be getting kicked out the door and Kerry is going to be President....BWAHAHAHAHAHA...get used to it!

[Mikimouse]

20. Spellcheck is your friend...

;)

[leftistagitator]

23. Hey, be nice to him

They probably don't have spell check at FreeRepublic

[Mikimouse]

24. Who me? (whistling a happy tune and looking at the sky)..

They doo tu haav spilchioc at Furrypubic, Bob Boudelang telled mi sew. Loosers!

[Fenris]

3. To my knowledge, they expressed quite a bit of outrage

A filmed beheading of a civilian is not going to go over well in the Muslim world. While they vocalized their displeasure, they also said they understood why the terrorists had done such a thing.

[Occulus]

4. No comparison, huh?

Then why was the white, plastic chair in the MSNBC hallway photo of six or seven civilian contractors at Abu Ghraib standing in a rough circle seemingly identical to the white, plastic chair Berg was shown sitting in? FOR THAT MATTER, WHY ARE THE WALLS THE EXACT SAME SHADE OF YELLOW IN BOTH PHOTOS?

Sorry for shouting, but that last little comment from Powell you put in your post pissed me off. How can this man possibly[/i see no comparison?

[Tellurian]

7. From here on in, anything Powell says will be said tongue n cheek...

He is trying to help us...

[Pachamama]

14. Maybe Powell is the new "Deep Throat" from the Pentagon/White House?

Hmmm...

[Erika]

5. So Who Did It?

There is no clear proof or acknowedgement that any specific group did it. There is conspiracy theories out there that Bushie did it to reduce the heat put on our torture of Iraqis.

[Just Me]

42. The other hostage pics have no yellow walls, white chairs, prison garb.

I'm keeping my list and checking it twice.

[oblivious]

6. The man is deluded.

Powell said that there was "no comparison" between Berg's killing and the revelation of abuses at Abu Ghraib prison by American soldiers.

I wonder what he would say if the Iraqi(s) being beaten to death and raped in US custody were shown on the Internet.

[northzax]

48. he's right

there is no comparison.

one was done by a soveriegn state that invadaed another nation with the stated goal of bringing democracy to that nation.

the other was done by a couple of <pardon my language> really fucked up whackos.

a comparison:

here in DC last weeka young girl was killed by a bullet that came in though the open door and hit her in the back.Two young men have confessed to this brutalact. There was outrage, at a certain level, and justice is being done.

Had this been done by police officers, the outrage would have been at a whole different level. Cops should know better, and we expect higher levels of behaviour from them than we do from a couple of drug addles gangbangers.

[ferg]

8. Juan Cole predicted Powell's lie

Muslim Authorities Condemn Berg Killing

Muslim authorities at al-Azhar Seminary, the preeminent center of learning for Sunni Islam, vehemently condemned the brutal murder of Nick Berg by terrorists in Iraq, according to Sobhy Mujahid.

... Even the conservative and fundamentalist religious leaders in Iraq expressed the same sentiments.

... We'll be hearing for years from the talking heads on US cable news about how the Muslim world failed to condemn what was done to Berg. It would be as though a set of high-ranking cardinals in the Vatican condemned something unreservedly and then people kept saying the Church remained silent.

On May 1, Juan Cole predicted the Bush administration would try the "no excuse for silence" BS. Powell's story line only works because the Muslim condemnations were censored by the American "free" press.

[Tellurian]

11. good little blurb about Lieberman's Republicanism..

from your link:


"Disturbingly, Sen. Joe Lieberman endorsed torture as an information extraction mechanism on Wolf Blitzer's show on Sunday. He gave the tired example of whether, if one of the 9/11 hijackers had fallen into US hands, one wouldn't have wanted all means used to extract information about the coming attack? There are several things wrong with this stance. First, torture does not work, and there is no evidence that it worked at Abu Ghuraib. Second, the argument that the ends justify the means always turns human beings into monsters. If something is morally wrong, you don't do it if you hope to remain a moral society. Society would be a lot safer if all known heads of identified criminal organizations were taken out by police snipers. We don't do that. Why? Sen. Lieberman should think about it. That way lies a descent into barbarity before which September 11 would pale."


what an idjit!

[cestmoi]

37. Lieber avoids the fact that victims of torture tell lies.

Torture doesn't work. People tell whatever the torturers want to hear which usually means they implicate others. The history of the Inquisition, the Salem witch trials all proves this out.

[nolabels]

44. "information extraction mechanism"

Orwell would be proud of our boy Joe

[demconfive]

9. Gee...

Maybe all those Arabs are too busy being outraged by all the arab civilian deaths to be outraged over a single american death. Oops! I forgot. American lives are worth a lot more than those of arab people.
<sarcasm off>

[sofa king]

10. I like the way one of those trogs over at FR put it.

He said there is no comparison between the prison torture thing and the execution of Nick Berg because our adversaries are "low life savages who are belong to low life culture."

Keeping this in mind, I drank a lot of beer and played with cicadas all weekend long, comfortable with my new concept of inarticulate superiority. My America.

[FlemingsGhost]

12. Does ANYONE care what this clown has to say?

It is amusing that he is still trying to lecture the world on matters of morality.

It will be a pleasure to see this lackey fall...

[Pachamama]

13. Powell and Bush should be thankful the Arab Nations have been silent..

...about the s**t we have done to the Iraqis, Afghanis etc....

In fact, on that matter I must say I'm still more stunned that we haven't seen mass protests around the Arab World...

Anybody have a thought about that and why we haven't seen any? I just keep waiting for the invitation to the "WW Boston Tea Party"....

Inhofe might be "outraged at the outrage"...I'm outraged at the lack of enough outrage....

[ngGale]

15. One reason is our own media...

I've read papers all over the world. Yes, there are extremists in the Arab World, but how about Bushco. From what I read it's their culture to be silent. I think it speaks volumes about their innocence. They were very disturbed over Berg and our media is not going to tell us about the real story. For one thing it's such a stupid act it also put them in more danger. Watching for us to bomb the heck out of them again. It served no purpose for them to commit an act that would keep Bush in office. All Muslim proper condemned the act and I don't think they believe it was one of them.
Most Muslims are like us, can't control our extreme factions and neither can they. Does that make them all guilty, NO. Blaming it on a legless man that most say is dead and I believe them.

[truthisfreedom]

16. ok, we had outrage, then outrage at the outrage, and now outrage at the

lack of outrage.

outrageous!

[Bake]

46. I'm outraged at his outrage!

Or is it, his outrage at the lack of outrage? Or his outrage over the outrage at the lack of outrage?

I'm so confused . . .

Bake

[Piperay]

19. NO, there is 'no comparison'

Berg was murdered by terrorists (presumably) while the abuse of prisoners was known about and sanctioned by the US Government.

[colonel odis]

21. those darned ungrateful arabs

don't they realize the trouble the u.s. went to? i mean, to line up 5 cia/military types, keep that berg fellow in custody an extra couple of weeks, make that video of his death, commit all the sloppy mistakes -- you know, the rings on their white fingers, the wrong knife, the wrong accent.....

don't those blasted a-rabs know how hard it was to doctor up that whole berg thing? the least they could do is be outraged about it!


(before any lurking freepers go "damn right!" i should say that was sarcasm.)

[Vladimir]

22. Because 1 Westerner = 1000 Arabs, right? n/t

[TahitiNut]

31. I think the current exchange rate is about 14 to 1.

:shrug:

[Vladimir]

32. Holy fuck, you are right

Arab lives have appreciated somewhat recently! Or is that just cos they have become better at fighting back? My god its a shitty world we live in...

[9215]

25. Powell: Goddamn it!! The Psy-ops people can't

get a fucking thing right!! This phony Berg beheading was suppose to let the US say: "See, these AAArabs are worse than US" and then we were suppose to be able to say: "See, they don't express outrage". But now that the veracity of what really happened to Berg is in question they just seem intelligent by witholding statements.

Waaaaaah, sniff, sniff, Waaaaaah. :cry:


This, IMO, is what the gameplan was behind the Berg beheading shit. It profoundly stinks of Black Ops. It was designed as a counterweight to the Abu Ghraib torture/abuse scandal to point a finger at the Islamic/Arab world and say: "See, they really are a vile race and religion".

PS.

[TahitiNut]

29. It was pretty clearly a black op ... perhaps merc-sponsored

Berg's beheading was pretty clearly done by a 2nd or 3rd tier "wet work" group aligned with the "rape and pillage" interests. Under no reasonable theory did it serve any Arab/Iraqi/Muslim interest of any kind.

[9215]

45. That's right about not serving Arab interests.

The lack of outrage from them,IMO, is because they don't believe any of this shit. The people fighting against the US occupation/colonizers are pretty savvy. Like anyone who has limited resources and inferior technology they must rely much more on international sentiment like the North Vietnamese did in fighting the US and garner support from as many quarters as possible. Beheading people will not ingratiate the American public or anyone else to their cause.


Plus all of the technical oddities about the Berg beheading make it look like it was staged.

But John Q. US Public could not imagine US government elements doing such a thing so naturally this kind of Black-Ops gets alot of play from the "first message" syndrome our media is in.

There is more of this to come I'm afraid and it could get very sick and scary. :scared:

[keithyboy]

26. Why, must of them know the Iraqi insurgents didn't do it.

They can look at the video and know whereas most in this country are so brain-dead from Terminator and Rambo movies that they will believe whatever we show them as long as it is on video.

[Cooley Hurd]

27. Funny... after Berg's murder, I heard MANY Arab voices...

...condemning it (INCLUDING many Shi'as). Who was Powell talking to, anyway?:shrug:

"Emily, get outta the way!"

[TahitiNut]

28. Lessee... "crimes against humanity" v. "crime against a human"?

Pull your head out of your colon, Powell. :eyes:

[phasev]

30. Outrage

outrage + outrage over outrage = more outrage

[Barkley]

33. Boss, We Sick? - n/t

[BonjourUSA]

34. Who has been more outraged... Before ?

Almost every day, "rebels" are killed with civilians walking along, who are the civilians ? who has been more outraged ?

600 Iraqis died in Falludjha, who are they ? Who has been more outraged ?

Only 10 days after Bagdhad fall, the US army opens fire on crowd in Fallouja and Mossul : 40 Iraqis died, who are they ? Who has been more outraged ?

150 000 Iraqis have already been sent into the American jails, who are they ? Who has been more outraged ?

Rumsfeld and Powell seem to have been informed about tortures ? Who are they for not having been more outraged ?

[DulceDecorum]

35. By the fact the Queen may be involved?

The website that released the video
appears at this point ot be located in London
- at an organisation that has been given the right to bear the Royal Arms (the Queen' personal seal of approval.)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x11866#11987

There is some connection
between that particular website and Western Samoa,
but that is another story.

[Aidoneus]

36. it is not enough that Hizbu'llah & Hamas are on their side on that?

on the BBC Monitoring page (not current) a few days ago there were also "WTF?!" sort of commentaries from "al-Qa'idah" websites.

At any rate, Powell can go to hell. The sooner the better.

[LoneStarLiberal]

38. Secretary of State Stalin? Powell's lost it.

That little statement of Powell's is ominously Stalinist-sounding, isn't it?

Interesting how we don't give any coverage of the civilian toll of our liberation of Iraq (leaving it for "opposition" networks like al-Jazeera to monopolize), yet we feel free to remonstrate to the Arab world about their insufficient outrage over one American civilian's gruesome death.

As the Man of Steel once was heard to say, "one death is a tragedy, one thousand deaths is a statistic."

[robbedvoter]

39. Wasn't the outrage from the Arab world that caused 911?

Should ask for more?

[struggle4progress]

40. Hey Colin! I bet there's a long list ...

of innocent people brutally murdered around the world whose killings you haven't ever denounced. Hell, there must be hundreds or thousands in the US alone every year. Does your failure to condemn each and every one of those killings individually mean that you supported some of them?

I don't understand you rightwingers, Colin. When we bomb and kill thousands of innocent Iraqis, you guys say "Boo hoo hoo: that's war." American troops die, and you guys do your best to limit press coverage. But some thugs kill this poor guy Berg in this horrible way and you folks act like you've hit the jackpot: there's no end to your efforts to make political capital from it.

You know what I think, Colin? I think you and your ilk bear some responsibility for what happened to Berg. Your crowd promised to march into Bagdad greeted by cheering flower-throwing mobs; your crowd promised "no more rape rooms." But you haven't delivered stability and security: instead, the country is still in chaos; folks arrested for traffic violations apparently end up being tortured by military intelligence; and the thugs who killed Berg feel justified.

[apnu]

41. I guess we have to just keep saying it until it sticks....

... Powell this is kettle, kettle this is pot (Powell).

Everyday these 'pugs find a way to give me another dose of outrage. Really, I'm in awe at that talent.

And now the outrage...

WTF?!?!?!? Since when do these chickenhawks get off criticizing Arab culture and atrocities?!?!?!?! "unacceptable" Powell, taking over 1000 photos of rape, torture and mutilation is "unacceptable" too. So when your army isn't raping Iraq anymore, then come out and piss and moan about unacceptable acts.

What a dummy.

[Jacobin]

43. How Helpful!!

Colin letting the Arab world know what to get "outraged about" and what not to get outraged about.

Very nice of him to help sort out their emotions,huh?

[TeeYiYi]

47. Beheading condemned by Hamas and Hizbollah . . .

Beheading condemned by Hamas and Hizbollah
By Hussein Dakroub

14 May 2004

Two Islamic militant groups, Hezbollah and Hamas, issued strongly worded condemnations yesterday of the videotaped beheading of American civilian Nick Berg in Iraq.

<snip>

"Hezbollah condemns this grisly act which has caused great harm to Islam and to Muslims by this group which falsely claims to belong to the religion of mercy, compassion and genuine human values."

Of the killers shown cutting off Berg's head, Hezbollah said: "This group belongs to the Pentagon school - the school of killings, occupation, crime, torture and immoral practices as exposed by the big scandal in the occupation prisons."

Osama Hamdan, Hamas' representative in Lebanon, denounced both Berg's killers and US President Bush in the same breath. "I condemn this brutal act and sympathise with the family of the slain American man," he said.

Both Hezbollah and Hamas said the beheading hurt Arab causes, and predicted that the United States would use it to turn attention away from the prisoner-abuse scandal.

More: http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/story.jsp?story=521094

TYY

[number6]

49. poo poo Powell is a JOKE

:+

[SoCalDem]

50. Isn't that just "so"...US??

It only matters what WE think.. and of course WE are outraged at the fact that THEY are NOT..

Just because we have all the guns and tanks and planes, does NOT mean that we can MAKE them think something that they do not..