Shedding Populist Tone, Kerry Starts Move to Middle

[Snellius]

PHOENIX, May 7 — He has dropped the red-meat riff on "Benedict Arnold C.E.O.'s." He is talking up tax cuts for corporations, playing up his deficit-cutting credentials and taking on teachers over pay-for-performance.

And on Friday, John Kerry came to the centrist Democratic Leadership Council here sounding little like the outraged, populist scourge of special interests and big business who fended off challenges from his left in the Democratic primaries.

"I believe, as I know you do, that the private sector is the engine of economic growth," Mr. Kerry told the group, which helped form many of Bill Clinton's policies on the economy, welfare and trade. "I don't pretend that it's the government that does it all. I refuse to lead a party that loves jobs but hates the people that create them."

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/08/politics/campaign/08KERR.html

[Jacobin]

1. groan

:eyes:

Exactly who are his strategists?

[Tellurian]

9. Yep, I agree. Kerry is being misled by his strategists!

His tone is arrogant and unnecessary at this point in time....

[mhr]

2. This Man Is Digging His Own Grave - Hello Ralph Here I Come!

When will these people ever learn?

[slor]

12. "Hello Ralph Here I Come"...

will be followed by, "Welcome Back For Your Next Four Years President Bush".

[Nlighten1]

96. 95 to 3 vote on Negreponte.

It doesn't matter who is in the White House as long as Congress is behaving this way. Better Bush be there than a "fair-weather" Democrat.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[RaRa]

26. Amen and thank you. eom

[54anickel]

31. Just a note on your last line.

From the "About DU" page:

We welcome Democrats of all stripes, along with other progressives who will work with us to achieve our shared goals. While the vast majority of our visitors are Democrats, this web site is not affiliated with the Democratic Party, nor do we claim to speak for the party as a whole.



So, while the posters claim of "here I come Nader" may not help in our shared goal of ousting the usurper if he/she were to truly vote for Nader, voicing frustration with the presumptive Democratic candidate may contribute (if Kerry's people even bother to visit this board to see how his message is playing to his "base")

[BiggJawn]

39. When did Nader declare he was a Democrat?

And I would challenge that he is a true "Progressive", too.

There are OTHER ways to "voice frustration" with Kerry besides the flame-bait "I'm comin' t'VOTE for ya, Ralph!"

[54anickel]

48. Flame-bait, and you bit. I did not make up the rules for this board, but

there are plenty of options available to users to handle what they consider flame-bait other than biting and running with it.

You've stated your opinion, I've stated mine. Let's not hijack this important thread and turn it into another "Naderite" one.

[BiggJawn]

79. Agreed. n/t.

[ikojo]

32. The Dems cannot blame Nader for not winning back the

house and Senate in 2002. It's time people stop blaming Nader for all the Democratic party's woes. The Dems failed to regain the house and Senate in 2002 because, once again, they allowed the REPUBLICANS to set the campaign agenda and ran as the also war party. Instead of running on economic issues that resonate with almost every working person (you know those folks who depend upon a PAYCHECK and not INVESTMENTS to put food on their tables?) they ran as the other war party.

Instead of supporting an also war party people either stayed home or voted for the real war party.

Me, I held my nose and voted for Jean (who did not oppose shrub's nominees) Carnahan in 2002. James Talent won that election.

The Republicans have no problem running to THEIR base of religious conservatives and upper middle class/rich folks. Why is it so hard for the Dems to stick up for WORKING people? WHY? As a WORKING person (with no inheritance expected) I would really appreciate a political party who had MY interests at heart.

[BiggJawn]

40. No party cares about the "Working Poor", and neither does Ralph.

How much money do we who play "Bill Pay Roulette" some months put in Ralph's war chest? Nothing. Thus he doesn't care about us. Don't kid yourself. The aura of being "The Champion of The Little Guy" pays well for him.

I hold Ralph Nader in the same low esteem that I reserve for Televangelists, and for many of the same reasons. And when you get one of his cult followers cranked up and frothing, you can see the simularities to what you'd get if you "dissed" Benny Hinn to one of HIS faithful...

Hold your nose, by all means, that's what I'm gonna do with Evan Bayh, just pull the lever like you actually LIKE the guy!

Get the GOP OUT OF POWER FIRST!

[leesa]

52. I agree. The DNC runs Republicans as their candidates and then

wonders why no one wants to vote for them. There is no way I would vote for Kerry if I had a choice. He is probably less belligerent than Bush though and won't ram as much of the Fundie wish list through so I feel I have to vote for him, and, once again, the corporations, and blind support of Israel's transgressions.

[joe1991]

53. Look at Kerry's Record, a pretty good liberal

You may not like it, but Clinton also moved to the center to get elected. Kerry's ACLU score is equal to Paul Wellstones, (although not always in the same areas, I'll give you that)
It's hard to tell who are trolls and who are not, but giving the benefit of the doubt, I'd just repeat what you know is true, a vote for Nader IS a vote for Bush.
So, while your "conscience" might be clear, the country will fall further into fascism.

[Emillereid]

94. Amen!

[GCP]

38. Amen brother

We either get Bush out this time or say goodbye to the America we knew and loved.

[Citizen Daryl]

19. Remember Bush in 2000

As a Nader voter in 2000 (who had good a good reason, namely, Federal matching funds for the Green Party - plus knowing that Gore would not lose), all I have to say is remember Bush. He played to the center until he was elected.

Please, for God's sake, don't give Bush a *MANDATE* this year. We can't afford Nader.

[CityDem]

89. I agree

My support for Kerry was tenuous at best. Now that he is starting to sound like Lieberman, I will begin to look at other options including Nader or Green candidate.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

90. Just think, if enough of you Naderites vote for Nader again...

...we can find ourselves in a worse mess than we are now.

Is that what you want, or are you just posting to be posting?

[lostnfound]

103. Or perhaps not vote at all, for first time ever.

I've never been this tired of voting for the 'Business Party Plan B'.

With Dean, we were close to breaking the stranglehold of corporate money over the Democratic party, which would open the door for some real change. Kerry was part of throwing that opportunity away.

But my vote won't matter -- in Texas -- anyway..

[brokensymmetry]

3. Not a good strategy.

This path leads away from the White House. And we all know what that means.

[ima_sinnic]

4. out of the 9, this is what we ended up with?

oh Dr. Dean, I miss you so bad :cry: :cry: :cry:

[Kahuna]

11. Dean did it too. Remember his Dixie Jesus Tour? His reaching out..

to rednecks? It was okay when he did it though. Of course. :eyes:

[ima_sinnic]

17. excuse me, he never CHANGED HIS POLICY STANDS

because of any groups. Your intolerance is showing, btw--you're not "elitist" or anything, are you? I'm not going to re-hash old arguments about how "rednecks" count as voters also b/c you obviously think only the opinions (& votes) of well-educated "classy" people like yourself count.

Dean was all about bringing everybody in--and unlike Kerry, who has presented no cohesive unifying stand at all, he meant it. I used to hate it when I heard the RW say that Kerry "flip flops"--but I think they're on to something.

[billbuckhead]

23. Dean absolutely changed his stand on gun regulations

When he was just the Governor of Vermont he was anti gun regulation and then when he started to run for president he started to be for the Assault weapons ban.

[Freddie Stubbs]

46. Shifts to the left aren't considered flip-flops, only shifts to the center

Didn't you get the memo?

[Tellurian]

75. New Leaders for A New ? nt

[workforpower]

25. Dean is a loser.

Dean brought just a few fanatics together. It is a cult of personality. Dean's miserable primary run says it all.

[ima_sinnic]

42. "cult of personality" ?

well you have your candidate with the personality of a dead fish. hope you're happy. you obviously don't understand the power of being included, really truly INCLUDED in a campaign. Kerry's support is not that great, from what I can see, and he's doing very little to strengthen it. Now he's kissing up to corporate whores so I guess we can expect more of the anti-labor policies of the current regime to continue under King Kerry.

[Lorien]

71. So sayeth the corporate media

to be parroted ad nauseum by the media faithful.:eyes:

Please, I went to the Democratic meeting in Florida where ALL the candidates spoke. Dean BY FAR had the most support, followed by Clark (Kerry came in after Edwards). Dean, Clark, and Edwards HAVE personalities, while Kerry, from what I've seen, is human sominex. Dean's primary run was fantastic (notice all the magazine covers?) until the corporate media "Gored" him. They will do the same to Kerry; count on it.

That said, I'll vote for the lesser of two evils, because the greater of the evils is truly horrible.

[Baltimoreboy]

88. Not to cause trouble

But Dean did lose. So, a lot of people DID like what he had to say. And a lot of them didn't like what Dean and others had to say.

[workforpower]

13. Dean is a loser.

The only reason he won VT. was because no one else campaigned there. It was a courtesy that the bellowing blowhard never afforded his opponents.

[ima_sinnic]

22. "bellowing blowhard"?

no, the reason he lost other states was because of the dumbass idiotic meme started by desperate DLC types and Kerry supporters that only Kerry was "electable." Well you got your "electable" candidate and he's nothing but a hollow bag of wind, blowin in the wind. Go, John, catch the next thermal. Drift into the stratosphere and into outer space for all I care.

[workforpower]

35. HA HA !

Dean gets beat by meme? Was it screaming? John Edwards beat the loser too. Dean had the money,the favorable press,high profile endorsements,a year of campaigning(no job) and lots of volunteers in Iowa. He ran a pisspoor third. 40 million spent and third?

That's a loser.

[Imperialism Inc.]

44. The press attacked him. They have admitted as much in their

"post-attack" studies.

What was so sad was to see the Dems be so heavily influenced by the media. Dean went from top of the polls to nothing in a matter of days. Why? How is that even possible? Well the Dems saw that the media was going to tear Dean apart. That the media didn't like him. The recent memories of Clinton's trashing scared the voters to death and they switched their allegiances to someone that the press liked in a very short time frame.

That was the saddest part to me and the lesson of the primaries. The media are the number one influence over who will be finally elected. You might remember that the attacks on Dean started right after he announced in an interview that he was going to limit how much a media company can own.

Before I am labeled a Deaniac who got taken in by a cult of personality, I was (and am) a Kucinich supporter. But that doesn't mean I am blind to what happened.

[Lorien]

72. Well said n/t

[Khephra]

5. Starts?

Kerry is a good man, but he's been running for the center since he voted to go into Iraq.

[54anickel]

6. The US truely has become a single party - corporate elitist - system.

The candidates pander their base to get the party nomination, then go after the big prize to win the corporate interest, money, media backing and election. :puke:

So, do I just say fluff it on election day and stay home? When will we peons take to the streets in a revolution - because it seems that will be the only way to take this country back.

[emulatorloo]

36. Politics 101 - they all run to the center - look at GWB

he ran as a centrist rather than the right wing kook that he is.

The sky is not falling.

[Tellurian]

77. But Bush has fouled Conservatives on Both sides with a bad taste in

their mouth.

Kerry must be seen as a president of THE PEOPLE..

Conservatives feel it's more important for both sides to work to restore dignity to the WH. Otherwise, we have nothing.

[wubbathompson]

7. And those crazy Republicans paint him as a flip-flopper

Could they possibly be right? This guy panders to whomever is listening to him, regardless of what he said the day before

[IndianaGreen]

69. It was Joe Liberman who first called him "Senator Waffles"

The GOP is merely repeating the criticism that was leveled at Kerry during the primaries.

I no longer think Kerry flip flops. What appears as a flip-flop is Kerry's attempts to be on all sides of the same issue in order to please whatever audience he is speaking to, except for gays. In reality Kerry is a hard core PPI imperialist. With Kerry we will get a more efficient Bush in foreign policy!

In domestic policies, no one can be as rightwing as Bush when it comes to abortion rights or social agenda.

[unblock]

8. this is so standard it's practically a requirement

granted, if ever there was an election where a hardcore left-populist could win, this would be it. well, that and 1976 or 1932....

point being, starting off feeding red meat to your base and then swinging toward the middle is almost automatic. you feed your base red meat to raise money, money, money. then you swing to the middle to reach the swing voters. having established yourself early as the 'left' candidate, the left will still vote for you since you're better than the other guy.

study game theory. this kind of behavior is practically guaranteed when you've only got 2 viable candidates in the race.

put it this way: even christo-fascist shrub ran as a moderate 4 years ago once he had sewn up his base and racked up $$$.

[wubbathompson]

10. Good point

In this case though, Kerry seems to be doing an especially good job of abandoning the left and racing to the right of the middle.

[54anickel]

15. From states the case quite well, but it's a big assumption on his part

..."Democrats are going to come out for John Kerry, he doesn't need to worry about that," Mr. From said. "He needs to make sure that the voters who make the difference between a 45 percent candidate and a 51 percent candidate can be persuaded.

"Some of them may vote because of resentment, but a lot of them are just trying to get ahead," he added. "They're working more and more in the knowledge economy, they're more affluent, they're educated, and they respond more to the politics of aspiration than of grievance."

[Old and In the Way]

49. Great!

If you think he's doing a good job, then that means he's picking up moderate votes. That is the block that will decide the election. He can say whatever he damn well pleases to get elected. You don't think the reactionary right had a problem letting Bush moderate his campaign to get elected in 2000, do you? Of course not. All that mattered was getting Dimson in the WH so they could get their agenda served.

[MisterP]

76. no, goddammit!

the biggest bloc isn't supporters of DLC-style "kinder, gentler neoconservatism" but the apolitical voters, whose votes are determined not by policy but by "what have you done, or can do, for me?" (Not to mention the 50% who don't vote) The indeps and apoliticals are often lumped into "the great swing center," which is gleefully abetted by the DLC's little Frank Luntz clones.
Don't forget that the GOP is swimming around the Dems, working at picking off blacks and the poor that slough off because the Ds piddle the carpet whenever the Rs make noises about "class warfare" and "Southern strategy"; instead of justly outing this BS when we see it, the high-ups want to peg the Ds to the Rs' ever-rightward march, terrified senseless if the Glorious Consensus whould break up.

[crossroads]

93. You have a good point.

As I see it. Nader hasn't the chance of a snowball in hell of winning! This country and I can't *stand* another 4 years of Bush!!!:eyes:

[Zhade]

98. I'd call it a bait-and-switch.

It's dishonest, and it's not going to work. He's pissing off too many progressives, and that is a bad idea.

[2cents]

16. Did he hit his head when he fell off the bike?

"I refuse to lead a party that loves jobs but hates the people that create them."

I can understand political pandering but this was uncalled for, unnecessary and untrue.

C'mon John, your smarter than that!

[54anickel]

20. Hate is not a good word to be tossing around these days. That is

a very harsh line. I don't think most Dems hate the people that create jobs, but do find the scandals, loopholes, outrageous CEO pay scales, etc, etc, etc, absolutely "abhorrent".

[ima_sinnic]

24. he IS sounding stupider and stupider

hey John, am I going to be forced to vote for the lesser of 2 evils or what? when are you going to start showing that courage you showed in the 70s? or was that all a phony-ass front too?

[latebloomer]

18. just confirms my opinion

that you have to be a bought-and-sold corporate whore to get the nomination.

Nevertheless, I will vote for him, as I choke down the rising gorge. . .

[emulatorloo]

37. Politics 101 - they all run to the center - look at GWB

he ran as a "compassionate conservative" rather than the right wing kook that he is.

the sky is not falling

[Snellius]

21. Good ole Al From, the man who brought us 2002

Mr. From said Mr. Kerry's appeal to the middle on pocketbook issues could be decisive. "Democrats are going to come out for John Kerry, he doesn't need to worry about that," Mr. From said. "He needs to make sure that the voters who make the difference between a 45 percent candidate and a 51 percent candidate can be persuaded.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/08/politics/campaign/08KERR.html?pagewanted=2

For every vote the DLC tries to pick out of the middle, they are going to lose 2 to minority voters who will stay home out of apathy and to Nader on the left. Al From should stop trying to prove he's smarter than his arch-rival Rove and start taking the advice of his enemy: "Protect your base."

[ikojo]

28. The Greens are doing outreach to the disenfranchised

minority community (at least in St Louis they are). Many, many blacks feel taken advantaged of by the Democrats. It's like every four years a white Dem will darken the doors of a black church (assuming that all blacks are church going folks who will vote the way their pastors instruct) but not bring up concerns of the black community (police brutality being one issue) the rest of the time they are in office.

So, the DLC can chase after the wealthy suburbanite who already abandonded the Dems in 1980. The poor, middle class and minority voters may well stay at home on election day.

Why do the Dems try to persuade "affluent" folks to vote for them but ignore the greater number of folks who are sending a message by not voting? Why not try to BRING MORE PEOPLE into the voting booths by addressing the reasons they don't vote (such as seeing very little real difference in how the two corporate parties govern once in office).

[Norquist Nemesis]

27. Sure hope the Kerry Team's reading this thread!

It's getting harder and harder to be motivated into going to the voting booth in November. I personally take offense at From assuming that my vote as a Democrat is a given. We all know what what happens when one 'assumes'.

Kerry's not working to keep my vote as it stands now.

[ima_sinnic]

43. from what I can see, the Kerry team could care less

--same shit, different day, same policies, different name in the WH.

[Upfront]

61. Here Is One Vote

Kerry better worry about.

[pop goes the weasel]

29. kucinich is still in the race

" I refuse to lead a party that loves jobs but hates the people that create them." Damn pandering to the right. He is saying that we are what we are accused of being. First, we're not. Second, if he doesn't like his fellow Democrats, then he should drop out in favor of the man who is still running against him, Dennis Kucinich.

[Onlooker]

30. If you know a true centrist, talk to him/her

I'm not saying Kerry is right, but the problem he faces is that he has to pull in some of these true middle-of-the-roaders who, sad to say, don't care about what is happening in Iraq, don't care about our freedoms, don't care about discrimination, all they care about is a government that does chores (e.g., fixes roads), keeps the country safe, and requires low taxes. Talk with those people. They are very hard to convince in part because their comfort zone is in the muddled middle where they don't have to make up their minds until they're in the election booth. You can't woo those people with Populist messages. They do not get inspired by anyone.

[ikojo]

33. Jim Hightower says it best (and even wrote a book

about it)


There's Nothing in the Middle of the Road but Yellow Stripes and Dead Armadillos

[Old and In the Way]

51. A couple of more Hightower quotes.

Q: Are you advising the Greens to run someone for President?

Hightower: I hope they don't. I think the Greens probably will, but the question is will they run someone of the stature of Nader. I hope not because I think it is detrimental to their cause, to building a progressive party for the future.


Q: In the happy event that Bush loses, what is our next task?

Hightower: We will continue to have to build at the grassroots level. If we elect a John Kerry or someone like that, we'll be back to a Clintonesque style of government. No longer can we be fooled that that's any progress. So we've got to then redouble our efforts. But at least we will not be having to fight all the negative battles that we now do with Bush. We can be back to building that organized base, electing people, and moving toward that progressive future that I think is ahead of us.

From The Progressve
http://www.progressive.org/nov03/intv1103.html

So Hightower understands the need for pragmatic electoral politics if we want to further a progressive agenda...why don't the anonymous "progressives" on this board understand that?

[bemildred]

55. Right on, the only way out.

Political power is taken, not given, and the only way to
take it back in this country is from the roots on up.

Dean's "Democracy For America" is talking the talk too,
I'm watching to see how well they can walk the walk.

[PATRICK]

34. Wrong interpretation

This not like Clinton's natural slide to corporate viewpoints. This is not addressed to the "middle". This is to break the swaying back of business support that is overfunding the Bush campaign- to offer them assurance and a uniting hand.

As it stands with who Kerry is and what he will represent it will turn out to be a leap forward from Clinton, but not liberal march into pure socialism. Kerry has to bring this disjointed class divided society together to walk out of this fiasco with a mandate of hope and healing. Also, he will have little power to enact liberal legislation in any reasonable makeup of Congress so the compromise is set in stone as is the impossibility of getting mired in Iraq because Bush has already lost that enterprise for any large American role.

Red meat populism is still part of the campaign because ALL true Americans have a grudge against Bush for a multitude of reasons. We all have everything to lose. Prying corporate fingers loose from abuse, think tanks, bought pols, weird right wing simpleton mindsets, triumphalist unaccountable capitalism, can't be done suddenly or by speeches. That will be a work in progress for us all long after Kerry wins.

Trying to compare this to Bush's idiotic and transparent lies during his campaign is to lose sight of reason itself.

All the treasonous schmoes are waving the fingers of blame at Kerry out of abject fear. The lust for something they can call divisive hypocrisy- some weak or interpretable sign that he is as bad as Bush( a miserable strategy from a miserable position to be sure).

Stop getting righteously stampeded into boosting the chances of Bush and crippling Kerry before he even gets a chance to give us a chance.

And consider the miserable rotten sources of these pathetic brandings. They pollute every well.

[Snellius]

45. This is NOT like Clinton

If Kerry were balancing his move to the center with a complimentary outreach to minority voters and to progressives on issues like universal health, like Clinton did, then perhaps this political shift may make sense. But the way it is, by trying to pick up votes in the center, he is losing his base on the left, to apathy or Nader. It's just a fact.

For most of us here, this is as much tactical as ideological
We've seen this mistake happen too often. Midterm elections 2002. As Kerry would say, "When you're in a hole, stop digging."

[sandnsea]

70. Big load of horse manure

Inner city schools is a minority issue. Graduation rates are a minority issue. Treatment & prevention for drug users instead of incarceration is a minority issue. Health care for every child and a subsidized program available to every American is as close as we'll get to single payer for the foreseeable future. The stupid thing is that Kerry is 100 times more liberal than Clinton and people just insist on denying it in order to justify their support for Nader or Kucinich.

[Snellius]

74. This sounds a long way from universal health care:

But more examples are coming, Mr. Kerry hinted: Next week he will start selling his health care program in earnest. "My plan will actually lower the cost of health care, and it does it in a market-oriented, incentive-based way," he said, using words meant to warm the hearts of New Democrats everywhere. "It will bring businesses to the table, not alienate them."

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/08/politics/campaign/08KERR.html?pagewanted=2

"Health care for every child and a subsidized program available to every American is as close as we'll get to single payer for the foreseeable future." Maybe so, but you start with a broader vision and accomplish what you can. You don't start out with a compromise and hope for the best.

In the end, what you say may be true. But fact is Kerry is already having a lot of trouble convincing Naderites, Deaniacs, progressives and minorities that he is really on their side. Is that their fault? Without them, Kerry will lose.

[paulk]

81. It's not universal healthcare

but the last time Democrats tried that we got it shoved right up our ass. And that was with a Democratic Congress. What chance do you think Kerry will have to get a Universal Healthcare plan through a Republican House? None. Zero. Zilch. Squat.

Compromise is the ONLY way we're going to get anything better than our current clusterfuck health care system. And the logic of "Naderitites, Deaniacs, progressives, and minorities" who are willing to throw away the half glass we'd get from Kerry because they can't get their pie-in-the-sky full glass is not only selfish, it's stupid.

[sandnsea]

100. We started with a broader vision

Back with Hillary's plan. It went down in flames. We then moved forward and got SCHIP. Now we build on that. The first thing a salesman wants to do is remove objections. Kerry's done that with a couple of programs to reduce premiums for both small business owners and their employees. Then you put together a plan that helps the most people possible. Kerry's done that. His plan isn't that much different from Howard Dean's anyway. I just always liked it better because it is buying into the exact same federal insurance we already have, not a new government program "like" federal insurance.

And Naderites and Deaniacs don't want to be convinced, they want to continue to rant and rave and throw temper trantrums and demand their own way. Just can't accept that the country rejected them.

[Tellurian]

80. "Right Interpretation"

"Prying corporate fingers loose from abuse, think tanks, bought pols, weird right wing simpleton mindsets, triumphalist unaccountable capitalism, can't be done suddenly or by speeches. That will be a work in progress for us all long after Kerry wins."

"The lust for something they can call divisive hypocrisy- some weak or interpretable sign that he is as bad as Bush( a miserable strategy from a miserable position to be sure)."

I doubt Kerry has the luxury of the wait of prying corporate fingers lose etc. etc. He has to stabilize and create another path and merge the splinters together pandering to neither side.

Kerry isn't in control of the media, so no matter what he does he will always be portrayed as a Bush clone unless he first strikes a cord with the people. It is the people who are willing to destroy Bush for him. All they need is a Champion for their cause.

[RC]

41. Sounds to me Kerry is moving to be a kinder, gentler bu$h

:wtf: This isn't we need.

[leesa]

47. Bad, bad move. Moving to the right. JUST what this country needs!

Not surprised though. He was chosen for us by the corporate media, so he's just being himself.

[Blasphemer]

50. BAD choice

This election defies all that have come before it. Everything is different now. When going up against a RADICAL right wing agenda, there is NO need to move away from a populist platform. He'll move back. I just hope it's not too late.

[paulk]

54. He's giving a speech to the DLC, for Crissakes!

What the hell is he supposed to say? Up the Revolution? Down with the Corporate State? Capitalism sucks? I don't need you stinking Democratic moderates to get elected?

[CharlesGroce]

56. HE IS ONLY ABLE TO DO THIS BECAUSE OF YOU

and your scared shitless Anybody But Bush mentality. Enjoy what you deserve?

[paulk]

82. Do we deserve four more years of Bush?

Because that's the only real choice we have - Kerry or Bush.

ABB is yesterday's news.

[union_maid]

57. But did you read the whole speech?

Or even the whole paragraph?

"I will put the economy and government back in line with our values. We'll create 10 million jobs so Americans have the chance to work and get ahead when they do. We'll cut taxes for businesses that do right by America and reward companies for creating jobs here instead of for moving jobs overseas. I believe the private sector is the engine of economic growth, and our party cannot love jobs and hate the businesses that create them."


Most of the economic part of the speech is about the repsonsibilities of business and how he proposes to make it work better for working people with a mention on how the middle class wage earner is being screwed. Did you think that any of the candidates were going to come in and nationalize all interests? Any new president is going to have to have to provide some kind of incentive for business to behave well as well as disincentives for bad behavior.

[sandnsea]

59. Oh hell no

More fun to go off on a sour grapes rant!

[5thGenDemocrat]

95. Big Business might well be our enemy -- small business isn't

An example -- my buddy Carl the Republican owns a drive-thru party store, providing a service to the community and ten or twelve jobs to people (many of whom have been there for years).
Carl is not only a social liberal and one of the most decent men I know, but he ain't sending any of those jobs to Mexico.
I know very well that we Dems don't stand a chance of winning over GE or Enron or the like, but we do have at least an outside chance of converting Carl.
Further, it's guys like Carl -- not guys like Ken Lay -- who are going to be creating those ten million jobs Kerry's talking about. I say small business could be the Dems friend and I believe that it doesn't behoove us to get into a pissfest where one doesn't already exist.
John
It is now 41 days, 20 hours and 41 minutes to FUNDAY. Carl will be doing the barbecue.

[Merlin]

60. Do not play the fool. Do not make the Perfect the enemy of the Good.

(Sorry, union_maid, this is not directed to you, but to others responding to this thread.)

It is the infantile reaction of a spoiled child to throw tantrums because they do not get everything they insist upon.

Life isn't like that. Kerry isn't everything I want either, and he wasn't my first choice. But he's what we've got.

If we fail to support his candidacy, America will shrink into the worst dark age of its history. Do not allow yourself to be responsible for that tragedy. For one day you will have to answer to your mirror and your grandchildren for it!

Kerry for President!

[sandnsea]

58. Misleading interpretation

He also said all of this:


They've put wealth ahead of work, something-for-nothing ahead of responsibility, and special privilege for the few ahead of what's right for the nation.

My plan will end corporate welfare as we know it, roll back the Bush tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans, and impose a real cap on spending.

The middle-class share of the tax burden has gone up, while incomes have gone down. They are working harder, earning less, and paying more for health care and college and taxes.

Unlike this administration, I have a health care plan that goes after health care costs that are killing American jobs and burdening American families, and an energy plan to hold down costs and make America energy independent.

I'm offering a new bargain for America's teachers that asks more and rewards them more. If we're going to close the opportunity gap, we have to close the teacher gap, by rewarding good teachers who agree to teach in the places and subjects where we need them most. Instead of starving reform, we'll reward schools and teachers for turning our toughest schools around

[union_maid]

62. Bad and misleading article

The article that started this thread was sufficiently disturbing that I went to John Kerry's website, prepared to complain. Upon getting there I easily found the text of the speech that's quoted and found something very different in tone than this article implied, with no decrease in the populism that the author speaks of. Kerry clearly understands that the middle class is the basis of American culture. Without it, not only do many people risk falling into poverty, but there is no opportunity to rise out of poverty. That's pretty populist.

We need to work to defeat Bush. We don't advance that cause by spreading misinformation rather than investigating and challenging it.

[sandnsea]

68. Some are working to defeat Kerry

They're more than happy to spread misinformation anywhere they can find it.

[IndianaGreen]

63. Did I miss Kerry's "populist tone" somewhere?

It must have lasted five seconds!

The main issue to me is when will a President Kerry order all US troops and personnel out of Iraq? There are no "ifs" or "stay the course" allowed as part of the answer!

:crazy:

[union_maid]

66. The whole thing was populist

Unless you're looking for a bit to take out of context. I don't see how Kerry can possibly say when he'd order all US troops and personnel out of Iraq. Even if he'd do it as his first order of business (that's hypothetical. I'm not suggesting that he would.) saying so would be to take the chance on inviting more death, destruction, terrorism and attacks on our troops in the intermim. He's got to be measured and repsonsible about this and it's not easy to deliver a clear message in his position. In the context of his life and career I'm satisfied that he'll do a much better job in all areas of foregin policy than this administration.

[mmm]

84. Kerry needs to tell us plainly: job one is getting the troops out of Iraq.

This will not lead to more death and destruction; this alone
will save American lives.
The problem is, pulling out of Iraq is contrary to the wishes
of big money.
Kerry must promise to get US troops out, close US bases, and encourage the Muslim/Arab nations in the area (working with the UN and EU) to assist Iraq in managing their resources. Attaining sovereignty must be put on a fast track.
They will elect an anti-US, anti-Israeli government.
This is inevitable. We need to begin positive negotiations with
Iraq as soon as we have demonstrated our good will toward them by pulling out quickly and completely.

Kerry needs to consult Kucinich on this and other matters.
Kucinich is our moral compass, something Kerry seems to be
lacking - big time.

[Fovea]

64. Note to Kerry

The Corporations may create jobs, but would you get them to create them here in the states?

The corporatists are ruining America, a Dem will stand the best chance running against them.

[union_maid]

67. That's what he said he'd do

Creating them in the states was really what that paragraph, in its entirety, was about. The author of the article just didn't see fit to quote that part.

[IndianaGreen]

65. Kerry is borrowing a line from Paul Tsongas's campaign speeches

"I refuse to lead a party that loves jobs but hates the people that create them."

That was part of Paul Tsongas's stump speech during the 1992 Presidential primaries. I remember it well, as I do his moving account of his Peace Corps experiences and how he wanted to inspire people as President Kennedy did.

[Merlin]

78. Another Paul Tsongas aphorism...

He was good at them--especially as they relate to business. I particularly liked his astute observation that:

"You can buy in any language. But when you sell, you must speak the language of the buyer."

[glitch]

73. small to medium businesses create more jobs in america than

multinational corporations do. So, who exactly do we hate?

[Malva Zebrina]

83. Something is missing from my country

and it is honesty and soul.

I am not surprised at this position at all, I do not love Kerry did not vote for him but was willing to give him some room.

I do not trust anyone that has become so enamored and entrenched in belt way politics. I am also perceiving Hillary Clinton as one of the same.

This is not my liberal party. No , it is not. I am not advocating socialism, but it is wrong for Kerry to slap us in the face like this. I can only conclude that he wishes to see corporate control over America continue--I can no longer give him any room and am really drained of any energy I may have had to work for his election.

Not my man any longer. I simply do not like his politics.

Howard Dean was angry, yes, but he was not hysterical. We need honesty, not this crap Kerry is pulling.

Why do I have to settle for this? I don't. I may just stay home from the polls--at that point, there would be no use to it.

[dusty64]

85. I don't want

to hear this, a populist agenda is EXACTLY what we need.

[dawn]

86. They all campaign from the center.

Bu$h did, and now he governs from the (extreme) right. I am confident that Kerry will govern to the center-left (no one with his ties to the business community will actually govern from the left, but to me, anything is better than the radical right.)

I'd rather have someone in office governing from the center, rather than the right.

Of course, I'd prefer them to govern from the left, but we didn't nominate someone who'd do that.

[retread]

87. How is it then I just saw a ticker crawl across the bottom of

the screen on CNN that said Kerry adopts populist tone in speaking to DLC????

[Tellurian]

97. Someone must have mistakenly switched the speeches.

He needed to repeat the Arizona speech from yesterday to the DLC.

It's really hard to find dependable assistants anymore.

[CityDem]

99. CNN had their head buried

They are part of the problem.

[blm]

102. Because Rove has his left dividers working overtime.

.

[Davis_X_Machina]

91. Any article that talks about Kerry changing a position....

...on close examination usually reveals no change at all.

The Master Story Line -- it worked a treat with Gore, so it's been reissued -- is that Kerry is a trimmer who constantly changes his positions based on a narrow calulation of advantage.

All stories must conform to this.

[demoman123]

104. Didn't he use to be Irish?

http://slate.msn.com/id/2079783

[Emillereid]

92. Hope he gets the muddled middle vote because I'm not sure he's going

to get mine. He has been pissing me off big time. I live in CA where he'll probably win handily -- that being the case I feel free to pull the lever for someone else or not pull it at all. So don't go accusing me of enabling Bush. I agree that Kerry is better than Bush -- but he's not good enough!

[Alexander]

101. SURPRISE! Kerry wants to WIN Arizona, people!

It's a terrible idea to campaign in Arizona and call for higher taxes, tighter gun control, and an end to the death penalty.

Kerry simply wants to win Arizona, so he's going to be smart and not say things that will cause him to lose Arizona.

I'm sure next week when Kerry's in a more liberal state he will adjust his rhetoric accordingly.

[DemosthenesOfTheWest]

105. Much too much Kerry bashing here.

Kerry is our man. Not only is he our candidate but he is also very close in his political beliefs to many rank and file Democrats. The fact is, however, America is extremely conservative and perhaps becoming more conservative . That means Kerry must adjust his message accordingly.

Please don't blame Kerry for America's irrational right wing mood and Bush's multi-million dollar smear campaign.