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Barrett808 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 04:11 PM
Original message
US lawmakers pass resolution deploring abuse of Iraqi prisoners
WASHINGTON (AFP) - The US House of Representatives, by a vote 365 to 50, approved a resolution deploring the abuse by US troops of prisoners detained in Iraq.

The resolution calls on the Pentagon to exact "swift justice" on any member of the US armed forces found to have taken part in the humiliation of Iraqi detainees, which has blown into an international scandal.

Lawmakers unanimously deplored the abuse of Iraqi captives, saying such actions undermined US efforts to garner goodwill in Iraq and could result in a backlash against US troops.

The United States has faced mounting international anger after graphic photographs of abuse of Iraqi detainees by US troops were shown around the world over the past week.

But several lawmakers said the resolution lacked teeth, and should have included a provision for a full-scale, bipartisan congressional investigation.

(more)

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/2004...
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Kagemusha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 04:12 PM
Response to Original message
1. Is that 50 a typo?
Edited on Thu May-06-04 04:14 PM by Kagemusha
The article seems to say unanimous approval later..
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. maybe they didn't want to commend the US forces on the same vote?
The 365-50 roll call Thursday by which the House approved a resolution condemning the abuses of Iraqi prisoners while commending the members of the U.S. Armed Forces serving in Iraq

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=512&nci...

I don't know, what the reasoning is..maybe they voted against the war to begin with... :shrug:
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happynewyear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. consider it a win
a win for those of us that find this situation to be horrific, deplorable and inexcusable ...

As for the 50 that voted NO, at least it is only 50 rather than the usual 250.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #4
20. It's NOT a Win. Demos said the Bill has no teeth. Frank and Rangel livid..
Read the yahoo link further...

The Dems wanted a Bi-partisan investigation...Not so with the Repugs, all they want is the Pentagon to look into it and if they find any wrong doing (ho-hum) issue "swift justice"..hmm.. a promotion w/raise!
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Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #4
23. The fifty that voted no did so because this vote didn't allow for Congress
to investigate. It is a form of whitewash. If they were completely sincere they would open this up for complete investigation and follow it all the way to the top. But Congress is covering for the Administration once again.
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freetobegay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 04:12 PM
Response to Original message
2. This should keep the freepers busy tonight
I can just hear them now Bush then Congress What the hell is going on here!
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 04:16 PM
Response to Original message
5. Hmm and they ingored Rangel's call for
Articles of Impeachment

TYPICAL of our so called FREE PRESS...
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icymist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 04:19 PM
Response to Original message
6. Here's the roll call on that vote:
http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2004/roll150.xml

Looks like the 50 wern't typos!
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icymist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. Hmmm. 49 votes against were from Dems. What do you make of this?
From my neck of the woods, I see McDermott and Inslee voting no. I wonder what the reasoning is,...too fast, too soon?
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happynewyear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #10
18. maybe they figured it wasn't enough
Edited on Thu May-06-04 04:51 PM by baldearg
what this mandates - not enough. Maybe they wanted something stronger, more severe? Note the ones that voted no, especially Jackson-Lee, Kucinich, Pelosi, Rangel, etc. ... ????? :wtf: :shrug:

Abercrombie
Blumenauer
Brown (OH)
Clyburn
Conyers
Cummings
Fattah
Frank (MA)
Grijalva
Gutierrez
Hastings (FL)
Hinchey
Hoyer
Inslee
Jackson-Lee (TX)
Jones (OH)
Kaptur
Kilpatrick
Kucinich
Lee
Lewis (GA)
Markey
McCollum
McDermott
McGovern
Meek (FL)
Millender-McDonald
Miller, George
Mollohan
Oberstar
Olver
Owens
Pallone
Paul
Payne
Pelosi
Rangel
Ryan (OH)
Sabo
Schakowsky
Serrano
Stark
Strickland
Towns
Velzquez
Waters
Watson
Watt
Waxman
Woolsey

I smell a rat now. :scared:
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Emboldened Chimp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #18
34. Shit, my man Waxman's on the list...
:wtf:
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lovedems Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 04:21 PM
Response to Original message
7. They are digging a big hole.
All of the reports coming out are saying this is a systemic problem yet the shills keep saying "a few bad apples". It is not a few bad apples but they keep saying it (in the article). They are ignoring the facts AGAIN!

If and that is a big IF, this is done correctly (and I am not holding my breath), alot of heads would roll all the way up the chain of command. It is not a few bad apples.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. The word for the day is Nuremberg
can you all say Nuremberg?

I knew you could....

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zonmoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #9
30. but
in order for that to happen the rest of the world would have to rise up against us and destroy our country.
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Kadie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 04:22 PM
Response to Original message
8. Maybe more should be done...
I am not making excuses, believe me, but here is an article I posted in GD this morning.

Bay Area MPs say abuse rumors circulated at Baghdad prison

By LISA LEFF, Associated Press Writer
Last Updated 3:39 am PDT Thursday, May 6, 2004

SAN FRANCISCO (AP) - Soldiers who staffed the Baghdad prison where Iraqi inmates suffered abuse at American hands were overworked, resentful and lacking guidance from their superiors, according to a California National guardsman who recently completed five months of military police duty there.

snip...

"It is a bad thing. I don't know what kind of sick thing was going on," he said Wednesday. "Was it some kind of bizarre military intelligence thing to break their will? I think it was a bunch of incredibly bored, stressed-out and probably clinically depressed soldiers just losing it and going off the deep end."

snip...
"It was rough. There were a lot of soldiers who were losing it," he said. "Basically, the majority sat in towers for 12 hours a day, watching the detainees, without a radio, a book and until right before we left, no heating ... So not only were you physically uncomfortable, but you were bored out of your skull and then you have mortars falling on you."

snip...
"Combat Stress Management was handing out Prozac and Paxil like crazy, trying to get a handle on the frustration and depression," Spc. David Bischel told the Tribune.

more... http://www.sacbee.com/state_wire/story/9189901p-1011529...

Were these just overworked soldiers? Do you think that they were living in such hellish conditions that they just lost it?

Maybe more needs to be looked into. Like the mental health of our soldiers and what they are being put through. Again, I am not offering excuses for them, what they did was despicable, this is just a little different look at things then what we have been seeing on the news.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. Well read the Stanford story
then Hannah Arend't "the Banality of Evil," and end with Jay
Lifton's many books on the SS. After that diet, add "Hitler's
Willing Executioners."

The reason why I say this is... the conditions have been created where yes we must all ask... if this was my ass in those conditions, what would i do? Most would do similar things, hence the banality of evil.

That said, I insist, the units that were chosen for the 800th MP Brigade did come from small towns, it is looking like... and this is not by accident, but by design.

Those boys are responsibile, but the ones who put them in there are just as responsible if not more...
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cally Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 04:30 PM
Response to Original message
12. The more liberal Dems voted against this for the most part
My guess is because it did not include contractors. I would like to know the actual reason.
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fizzana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 04:30 PM
Response to Original message
13. Thank God they passed the resolution.
I don't want to hear any more complaining from the Muslim world after such a magnanimous gesture.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #13
24. You think a watered down, lame resolution is contrition enough?
Thinks again...This is just the beginning...
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fizzana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. Maybe I wasn't being sarcastic enough.
or your sacrasm detector isn't working properly. I certainly don't think it's enough.

A full withdrawal from Iraq would only be start.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. Your post sounded like a late night Limbah rant..
Ck the Limbaugh thread out and see what I mean.
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fizzana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. Which is why it was sarcastic.
I'm sorry if that wasn't evident. I thought 700 plus posts on DU might suggest that my politics lie far to the left of Joe Lieberman.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 08:11 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. fizz...apologies, but I am not acquainted with your humor..
and for that matter, my chair cushion lies far left of Holy Joe. :hi:

Not saying, we're not on the same page. Duly noted. :hi:
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samhonk Donating Member (467 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 04:36 PM
Response to Original message
14. One little detail
"The resolution calls on the Pentagon to exact 'swift justice' on any member of the US armed forces found to have taken part in the humiliation of Iraqi detainees, which has blown into an international scandal."

How about the mercenaries? Any swift justice for them? And civilian command...?
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icymist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Here! Here! We need to go after the mercenaries!
Edited on Thu May-06-04 04:46 PM by icymist
They have no business representing the US military during wartime. I don't give a hoot about how cost effective it is.

edit for spelling.
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samhonk Donating Member (467 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. It isn't about cost.
The mercs make ten times as much as soldiers do, don't they?

That's what the extra cost is for, IMO - buying immunity from pesky international laws.
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icymist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Somebody, earlier on this forum, told me that the reason
for the contractors and mercs we're for cost effective reasons. At the time I believed it to be nonsense, but that is an argument that I have found.
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samhonk Donating Member (467 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Possibly -
It seems more likely to me that the appeal is a) lack of oversight and b) big profits for campaign contributors.

Cost effectiveness is definitely a common argument for privatizing government functions in general, though it ends up meaning greater expense and corruption in a lot of cases.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #14
25. NOPE! and the reason Dems are Rippsh*t!
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 05:09 PM
Response to Original message
21. How much weight does a "resolution" carry?
I am just curious because I believe it means nothing more than an acknowledgement with no action attached.

I could be wrong.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 05:10 PM
Response to Original message
22. It's NOT a WIN. The Bill has NO TEETH. Frank and Rangel livid..
Read the yahoo link further...

The Dems wanted a Bi-partisan investigation...Not so with the Repugs, all they want is for the Pentagon to look into it and if they find any wrong doing (ho-hum) issue "swift justice"..hmm.. a promotion w/raise!
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #22
29. I sincerely hope that the possibility of "democracy" is NOT destroyed.
This is just,...well,...

,...I hope greed won't kill this country,...
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. If we stand idly by and do nothing...
Our fate is sealed.

We have to apply pressure to the House (both stripes) to begin Impeachment proceedings with Rumy for starters.
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 08:19 PM
Response to Original message
33. Having them tried for war crimes by an international court
Edited on Thu May-06-04 08:20 PM by Solly Mack
would also help bring about swift justice , as well as bring about a better, and more widespread, investigation.


I'm postive the Iraqis would put more stock in an international court-which would remove the appearance of a cover-up -which making this a strictly internal matter will look like...


Prosecuting the soldiers to the fullest extent of the UCMJ, based on the law of land warfare (Geneva violations) would also be a step in the right direction...but they must be tried as soliders who have violated Geneva by committing WAR CRIMES.

As long as what these soldiers did is labeled "humiliation" and not a war crime, no justice will be had.


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