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democraticgator Donating Member (94 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 12:55 PM
Original message
F.A.A. Official Scrapped Tape of 9/11 Controllers' Statements
At least six air traffic controllers who dealt with two of the hijacked airliners on Sept. 11, 2001, made a tape recording that day describing the events, but the tape was destroyed by a supervisor without anyone making a transcript or even listening to it, the Transportation Department said today.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/06/national/06CND-TAPE.h...
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 12:57 PM
Response to Original message
1. See? I woulda considered that kinda important.
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Wickerman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 12:59 PM
Response to Original message
2. destruction of evidence?
wow, in a real world that would be huge. Unfortunately...
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LiberalFighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #2
44. Wouldn't that be a felony?
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NeonLX Donating Member (472 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #44
47. Yes, in the rightside-up world it would
But not in this weird, alternate version of reality we find ourselves in. Hey, what's that monkey doing sitting in the Oval Office?
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #47
80. So, what? They may have been complicit in MURDERING Americans.
Who cares?

This is IT!!!
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LynzM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 12:59 PM
Response to Original message
3. Hrm... interesting
I work in telecommunications stuff (ugh, don't hate me, please)... I'm responsible for pulling tapes of sales made up to THREE YEARS ago! It surprises me that it is not standard procedure to tape (or digitally record) ALL communications of that nature. Still, whoever made the decision to get rid of that tape did so in a very suspicious way, and it's definitely worth looking into. I'm only borderline LIHOP, but the more I read, the closer I get...
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
4. Oh, my God.
From your amazing article, (sigh):
The taping began before noon on Sept. 11 at the New York Air Route Traffic Control Center, in Ronkonkoma, on Long Island, but it was later destroyed by an F.A.A. quality-assurance manager, who crushed the cassette in his hand, cut the tape into little pieces and dropped them in different trash cans around the building, according to a report made public today by the inspector general of the Transportation Department.

The inspector general had been asked by Senator John McCain, chairman of the Senate Commerce Committee, to look into how well the Federal Aviation Administration had cooperated with the 9/11 Commission.

The quality-assurance manager told investigators that he had destroyed the tape because he thought making it was contrary to F.A.A. policy, which calls for written statements, and because he felt that the controllers "were not in the correct frame of mind to have properly consented to the taping" because of the stress of the day.

Another official, the center's manager, asked the controllers to make the tape because "he wanted a contemporaneous recordation of controller accounts to be immediately available for law enforcement," according to the report, and was concerned that the controllers would take a leave of absence immediately, which is standard procedure after a crash.
(snip)
It's been so long since this happened, but after reading what you just posted has brought me right to the verge of bursting into hot, angry tears. Damn.

Thanks a lot, democraticgator, and welcome to D.U. :hi: :hi:
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BlueEyedSon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. WHAT THE FCUK?
"cut the tape into little pieces and dropped them in different trash cans around the building"

Great lengths to bury this info!!!
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 01:02 PM
Response to Original message
5. first it was a secret, then it was destroyed?? WTF
they all need to go back before the 9/11 commission.
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UpInArms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 01:02 PM
Response to Original message
6. thanks for the post democratigtor
"The destruction of evidence in the government's possession, in this case an audiotape particularly during times of a national crisis, has the effect of fostering an appearance that information is being withheld from the public," the inspector general's report said. "We do not ascribe motivations to the mangers in this case of attempting to cover up, and we have no indication that there was anything on the tape that would lead anyone to conclude that they had something to hide or that the controllers did not carry out their duties."

But keeping the tape's existence a secret, and then destroying it did not "serve the interests of the F.A.A., the department, or the public," the report said.

The report also noted that the official who destroyed the tape had no regrets or second thoughts: "The quality-assurance manager told us that if presented with similar circumstances, he would again take the same course of action."

The inspector general wrote that this attitude was "especially troubling" and that supervisors should take "appropriate administrative action."


somehow I think that nothing else will shock me, yet then ...
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hang a left Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #6
14. Could it possibly document what time the FAA was notified of
loss of contact and a possible hijacking? Could it possibly document conversation that was going on amongst contollers during the hijacking? Something like "I notified the FAA at 7:18 AM"? Then the FAA would have to account for their actions after that now wouldn't they?

:tinfoilhat:
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skypilot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #14
22. That's what I'm thinking.
Part of the "official" story is that the ATCs didn't notify the FAA until 8:40am that Flight 11 had been hijacked even though they knew at 8:20am that it had. I don't believe for one second that the ATCs sat around for 20 minutes without notifying anyone. I'll bet that there was something on that tape that showed that they responded faster than 20 damned minutes.
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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #6
33. "he would again take the same course of action..."
"...unless a DEMOCRAT was President" - Then he'd be sure to keep all copies. He left off a key phrase to his statement.

Another second, another outrage.

So, when's this other bushco criminal scumbag gonna get fired? After all, if that's the position he says he will maintain, he should have been fired YESTERDAY if not sooner!

Hello? Any honerable persons left in our government? Hello?
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Leilani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #33
67. Who uncovered this entire thing?
This hearing was in front os the Commerce Committee, headed by McCain.

He is the person who asked for the report on how the FAA had done.

I know many here do not like him, but I believe he is honorable.
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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 10:41 PM
Response to Reply #67
81. McCain is an opportunist. Even a broken clock can be right twice a day.
I give NO repuke any quarter. They are all corrupt or corrupted.

There is simply NEVER an excuse to EVER support this misadministration.

McCain does it all the time.

McCain's most recent outrage is calling for Kerry to quit defending himself against repuke/bush* lies and smears - and to try to convince others' it is Kerry who not only initiated the whole sorry mess, but is active in slinging the lies.

Truth hurts - to the criminal amongst us. Lies do to - to the honerable amongst us. Only problem is, the repukes are loyal to their corrupt party first and formost, and what was once our great country LAST!
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Raster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 01:02 PM
Response to Original message
7. but of course they did... one of the single most important events...
...in the history of American aviation, terrorism in America and a defining point in the current mindset of America and the tape was just destroyed by a supervisor without transcription??? I'm sorry, that dog won't hunt. And the crap that no one listened to the tape. Bullshit!

It should be oh-so-clear and apparent that there are factions in this country, this government, that want no one to know what really happened.
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JayS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #7
23. The government seems to have a problem with tapes. Check...
...out what is going on in our neck of the woods. The short NPR piece is especially telling.

________________

Go to http://www.npr.org/features/feature.php?wfId=1846269 for a short but interesting audio clip. Click on "All Things Considered audio" and you can listen in RealAudio or Windows Media.

Also of interest:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/ap/2004... ...

Document: Oklahoma City Bombing Was Taped
By JOHN SOLOMON, Associated Press Writer
Mon Apr 19, 6:59 PM ET

WASHINGTON - A Secret Service document written shortly after the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing described security video footage of the attack and witness testimony that suggested Timothy McVeigh (news - web sites) may have had accomplices at the scene.

"Security video tapes from the area show the truck detonation 3 minutes and 6 seconds after the suspects exited the truck," the Secret Service reported six days after the attack on a log of agents' activities and evidence in the Oklahoma investigation.

*SNIP*

An entry a day earlier on the same log reported that the security video was consistent with a witness' account that he saw McVeigh's getaway car in the lead before a woman guided the truck to its final parking spot in front of the Murrah building.

"A witness to the explosion named Grossman claimed to have seen a pale yellow Mercury car with a Ryder truck behind it pulling up to the federal building," the log said. The witness "further claimed to have seen a woman on the corner waving to the truck."

A Secret Service agent named McNally "noted that this fact is significant due to the fact that the security video shows the Ryder truck pulling up to the Federal Building and then pausing (7 to 10 seconds) before resuming into the slot in front of the building," the log said. "It is speculated that the woman was signaling the truck when a slot became available."

*SNIP*


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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
8. I would like to know about that "supervisor's" political relationships,.
,...and business relationships, as well.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. This is exactly the time to look into that, Just Me. n/t
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #12
19. The act, alone, is stunning,...
,...but those details could reveal a great deal.

I kid you not,...my face is so flushed. This really caused my BP to go way, way up!!!
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Carni Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. Probably just a Dyncorp employee
Contracted to the FAA...nothing to see here folks! Move along!
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hang a left Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #8
16. Someone refresh my memory......please.
Who was the guy that worked at NORAD, and went on to head the FAA 6 or 9 months before 9-11, and then left 9-12?
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Carni Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #16
21. I hadn't heard about him
But, yes, I would like that name too if anyone has any details!
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Imperialism Inc. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. Appears that it isn't the case. Maybe you have agencies confused
Edited on Thu May-06-04 02:11 PM by MiddleMen
or maybe he wasn't the top guy.

On Edit: though she did leave on Sept. 12 (kinda) but in 2002.

http://www.faa.gov/aboutfaa/History_Admin.cfm
1. Elwood R. Quesada 2 Nov 1, 1958 - Jan 20, 1961
2. Najeeb E. Halaby Mar 3, 1961 - Jul 1, 1965
3. William F. McKee Jul 1, 1965 - Jul 31, 1968
4. John H. Shaffer Mar 24, 1969 - Mar 14, 1973
5. Alexander P. Butterfield Mar 14, 1973 - Mar 31, 1975
6. John L. McLucas Nov 24, 1975 - Apr 1, 1977
7. Langhorne M. Bond May 4, 1977 - Jan 20, 1981
8. J. Lynn Helms Apr 22, 1981 - Jan 31, 1984
9. Donald D. Engen Apr 10, 1984 - Jul 2, 1987
10. T. Allan McArtor 3 Jul 22, 1987 - Feb 17, 1989
11. James B. Busey IV 3 Jun 30, 1989 - Dec 4, 1991
12. Thomas C. Richards 3 Jun 27, 1992 - Jan 20, 1993
13. David R. Hinson 3 Aug 10, 1993 - Nov 9, 1996
14. Jane F. Garvey Aug 4, 1997 - August 2, 2002
15. Marion C. Blakey September 13, 2002 - Present
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hang a left Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. No I don't have the agencies confused.
I precisely remember that. I am painting, will try to look around and see where I read that.
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hang a left Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #25
31. Forgive my typos that are gonna be in this. This is from a book.
Maybe someone can google this guy and come up with some more info, I got to get back to painting the door before kids out of school.



OK I was wrong, he was as follows:

snip
Military special operations commander was head of FAA "security"

The head of security for the FAA on September 11th was Michael Canavan, who resigned after only 10 months on the jorb shortly after the attacks. Canavan is a retired US Army lieutenant general, who had been Chief of Staff of the US European Command in Stuttgart, Germany. Canavan has a considerable background in US Special Operations, which, according to the Departments of Defense's Dictionary of Military and Associated Terms, are defined as: "Operations conducted by specially organized, trained, and equipped military and paramilitary forces to achieve military, political, economic or psychological objectives by unconventional means in hostile, denied or politically sensitive areas." In short: operations that are above the law and off the record. Canavan was Commanding General, Special Operations Command, Europe, and Commanding General, Joint Special Operations Command, at Fort Bragg, North Carolina.
snip


This is the same Fort Bragg that, that according to news media reports, that also stafffed the National Security Council's Office of Public Diplomacy (OPD), a shadowy government propaganda agency that planted stories in the US media supporting the REagon-Bush Administration's policies in Central America.
snip

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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #31
34. OMFG!!! I was able to maintain distance from the reality of LIHOP,...
,...by always assuming that my belief could be wrong. This shit has just knocked down that wall of distance.

The thought that these MF-ers are so GD depraved as to be complicit in the mass murder of American citizens,...really makes me wish I had some valium on hand. I am reeling and still MUST hang onto the possibility that my instincts are ultimately wrong. But, this latest information really makes LIHOP even more real. And the possibility that these conspirators in such mass murder could get away with it,...just knocks me flat on my ass!!

Very freaky. What would happen if the American people were presented with all these pieces to that puzzle? Good gawd!!!!
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ElementaryPenguin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #34
50. LIHOP/MIHOPing BushCo PNAC Nazis going down in flames this week!!
Anyone here still doubting what treasoness, traitorous, murdering bastards these monsters really are??

:puke:
:argh:
:mad:
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hang a left Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #50
51. Nothing will become of this......please.
You have been around here long enough to know that. This is just one more little sprinkle on the cake. WE know what happened. The country never will.
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #51
53. That they could (and believe they would) get away with it,...
,...is what knocks me on my ass!!!! These people are so fucking depraved (and I am so sorry that my anger is venting to the point of being outright foul).

Geez,...
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ElementaryPenguin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #51
69. They'll know in about 50 years - when historians are allowed to write it
Without fear for their lives!
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #69
72. Makes the "pushing daisies" rhetoric,...far more impactful,..
,...with this insane administration.

Freaky. The whole lot of them are just so "freaky" to me.
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #50
65. I never doubted that the Bush Regime were monsters,...
,...but, I needed sufficient facts to conclude that they would actually either allow or take part in a terrorist act against their own people.

The evidence is mounting.

The evil is beyond dispute.
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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #31
35. And this is the same Fort Bragg
Edited on Thu May-06-04 03:15 PM by Minstrel Boy
which saw a rash of "murder/suicides" after special forces returned from Tora Bora, having been stood down from the capture of bin Laden.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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Snazzy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #31
46. What book and what role did FAA security have? And where?
First I've seen this.

For sure a puzzle piece.
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hang a left Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #46
49. I'm not gonna tell you the name of my book because..................
all the debunkers will come out and start thrashing my source. So......I googled......here ya go.

Top FAA security official leaving agency
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The head of security for the Federal Aviation Administration, Michael Canavan, is leaving his job after only 10 months, an agency spokesman said Friday.

FAA spokesman Paul Takemoto said, "It was a mutual decision between him (Canavan) and (FAA Administrator) Jane Garvey. He's going to pursue other opportunities outside the FAA." The decision was made Thursday.

http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/10/05/rec.faa.security.chang... /



Security breaches vary widely at U.S. airports

snip

The FAA's head of security, Michael Canavan, is leaving his job after only 10 months, the agency said Friday. Canavan is the second security official at the FAA to leave his post since the September 11 terrorist hijackings. Shortly after the attacks, Lee Longmire -- who worked under Canavan as the head of civil aviation security operations -- in charge of airport operations -- was transferred from that job to the head of the FAA's aviation security, policy and planning.

http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/10/05/inv.airport.security /



Statement of Michael A. Canavan to the
National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States
May 23, 2003
snip
http://www.globalsecurity.org/security/library/congress...





U.S. Army Lt. Gen. Michael Canavan Named to Head FAA Office of Civil Aviation Security

WASHINGTON-Federal Aviation Administration (FAA)
Administrator Jane F. Garvey today named United States Army
Lt. Gen. Michael A. Canavan as the new associate administrator
for FAA's office of civil aviation security. Canavan is expected to
start in his new position Dec. 4.

"I am extremely pleased that Mike Canavan has accepted this
important position with the FAA," Garvey said. "His vast
experience in overseeing the defense of our nation will make him
a strong leader as we work with industry to ensure security for the
flying public."

Since 1998, Canavan has served as chief of staff for the United
States European Command in Stuttgart, Germany, where he
coordinates the command's operations in Europe and most of
Africa. In this position, he advises the commander and deputy
commander in chief, and is responsible for the day-to-day
coordination and operation of 1,400 joint staff overseeing 100,000
U.S. forces in the European Theater, Middle East and Africa.

Before his appointment as chief of staff, Canavan held a number
of important positions, including serving as the commanding
general for the Joint Special Operations Command from 1996 to
1998, commanding general for Special Operations Command
Europe from1994 to 1996, assistant division commander for
operations for the 82nd Airborne Division from 1993 to 1994, and
commanding general for the Training and Doctrine Analysis
Command from 1992 to 1993.



snip
http://www.faa.gov/apa/pr/pr.cfm?id=1187
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Snazzy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #49
55. Thanks, understood!
He's still there 'till October something.

Sounds like (from the testimony) he would have been the guy responsible for warning carriers about the attacks. Which didn't happen.

Check out my other post, Sliney is giving all the orders on 9/11, his first day. Who did he just happen to replace that day?

Also:

Aviation Week & Space Technology December 17, 2001

Crisis At Herndon: 11 Airplanes Astray

By David Bond, Washington

...

The kind of government-industry coordination Herndon relies on to deal with bad weather turned instead to crisis management. As usual, the Air Transport Assn. (ATA) and the National Business Aircraft Assn. were represented on the operational floor. In a fluke, so was what Herndon calls "the military cell"--the Air Traffic Services Cell, created by the FAA and the Defense Dept. for use when needed to coordinate priority aircraft movement during warfare or emergencies. The Pentagon staffs it only three days per month for refresher training, but Sept. 11 happened to be one of those days.


---------

That article now behind a subscription.

That's two big coincidences: the guy giving the orders on first day. The military just happens to be there.

Mind you, this is Herndon, not New York--which is what this thread is/was about. But the decisions were coming from VA.
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hang a left Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #55
61. I have been searching around and I cannot seem to find any
backround on this Ben Slimey, ah I mean, Sliney. Just where does this guy come from?

also.....from your post

"In a fluke, so was what Herndon calls "the military cell"--the Air Traffic Services Cell, created by the FAA and the Defense Dept. for use when needed to coordinate priority aircraft movement during warfare or emergencies. The Pentagon staffs it only three days per month for refresher training, but Sept. 11 happened to be one of those days."

Damn isn't that ironic?

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Snazzy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #61
62. He apparently sued the Faa
As a NY attorney on behalf of flight controllers. I'd like to find that.

Google has hits, but haven't found any with much on his background yet.

The 911 timeline site has the article I quoted. They too have a local copy.
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #49
63. This "Sliney" guy seems like a "distraction".
:bounce:

Whaddya think?
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hang a left Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #63
64. That was my first thought.
Every timeline you look at has the guy in it. But nothing on Cavanan. Sliney also doesn't even come close to having the credentials of Mike. It really doesn't seem realistic that you have a lawyer making the calls on 9-11. Also if you google Sliney, he has made quite a name for himself as a hero. You have to admit that his first day is 9-11 is suspicious at best. Maybe that is exactly why. To get everyone looking his way.
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #64
66. CANAVAN (sp?) is the focus of this inquiry, yes?
But, WTF do I know?

I'm just wondering why "Sliney" would be thrown into the "thick" of these brushes *LOL*!!!!
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Snazzy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #16
43. 911 was first day for Sliney
Edited on Thu May-06-04 04:01 PM by Snazzy
"Sept. 11 is Sliney's first day on the job as national operations manager, the chess master of the air traffic system. The New Yorker, a lawyer who once sued the FAA on behalf of air traffic controllers, now walks the floor of the center -- a room that resembles NASA's Mission Control."

http://usatoday.com/usatonline/20020812/4351511s.htm

Who did he replace?

This is the guy who was ultimately in control on 9/11. He gave the order to ground everything.

Edit: his boss: Linda Schuessler, also there in Herndon. But he's hands-on operations. She's an FAA deputy admin which I ought to google better.
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JohnOneillsMemory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #43
54. Richard Clarke's book confirms this AND NORAD's Vigilant Warrior exercise.
Edited on Thu May-06-04 04:37 PM by JohnOneillsMemory
from 'Against All Enemies' page 5 describing the morning of 9/11-

"The air traffic manager," Jane went on, "says there are 4400 birds up now. We can cancel takeoffs quickly, but grounding them all that are already up...Nobody's ever done this before. Don't know how long it will take. By the way, its Ben's first day on the job." Garvey was referring to Ben Sliney, the very new National Operations Manager at FAA.

>snip<

I turned to the Pentagon screen. "JCS, JCS. I assume NORAD has scrambled fighters and AWACS. How many? Where?"
"Not a pretty picture, Dick." Dick Myers, himself a fighter pilot, knew that the days when we had scores of fighters on strip alert had ended with the Cold War. "We are in the middle of Vigilant Warrior, a NORAD exercise, but...Otis has launched two birds toward New York. Langley is trying to get two up now. The AWACS are at Tinker (AFB) and not on alert."
---------------------------------
http://www.thememoryhole.org/911/cia-simulation.htm

As reported by the Associated Press in 2002, the CIA and NORAD were in the middle of an exercise to prepare for multiple hijacked planes flying into buildings on the morning of 9/11 while it was actually happening.

Now that's worth screaming WTF!
-------------------------------
Agency planned drill for plane crash last Sept. 11
Associated Press
August 22, 2002

WASHINGTON -- In what the government describes as a bizarre coincidence, one U.S. intelligence agency was planning an exercise last Sept. 11 in which an errant aircraft crashed into one of its buildings. But the cause wasn't terrorism -- it was to be a simulated accident.

Officials at the Chantilly, Va.-based National Reconnaissance Office had scheduled an exercise that morning in which a small corporate jet crashed into one of the four towers at the agency's headquarters building after experiencing a mechanical failure.

The agency is about four miles from the runways of Washington Dulles International Airport.

Agency chiefs came up with the scenario to test employees' ability to respond to a disaster, said spokesman Art Haubold. To simulate the damage from the plane, some stairwells and exits were to be closed off, forcing employees to find other ways to evacuate the building.

"It was just an incredible coincidence that this happened to involve an aircraft crashing into our facility," Haubold said. "As soon as the real world events began, we canceled the exercise."

Terrorism was to play no role in the exercise, which had been planned for several months, he said.

Adding to the coincidence, American Airlines Flight 77 -- the Boeing 767 that was hijacked and crashed into the Pentagon -- took off from Dulles at 8:10 a.m. on Sept. 11, 50 minutes before the exercise was to begin. It struck the Pentagon around 9:40 a.m., killing 64 aboard the plane and 125 on the ground.

The National Reconnaissance Office operates many of the nation's spy satellites. It draws its personnel from the military and the CIA.

After the Sept. 11 attacks, most of the 3,000 people who work at agency headquarters were sent home, save for some essential personnel, Haubold said.


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Snazzy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #54
57. Red teams
(I really need to get Clarke's book already.)

Red Teams: The guy liberalnproud mentions, Michael A. Canavan, seems to be into them. His testimony to 9/11, first suggestion (for the future!):

RED TEAMS: During my tenure at the FAA, I supported completely the concept of Red Teams, a program to test and evaluate the overall state of readiness of domestic and international airports. Although no airport security system can be flawless, in order to develop and implement improvements, it is necessary to work with, rather than to punish airport and airline personnel when defects are found, by developing an improvement plan together. Based on the Red Team findings, the airport authorities and airline industry should be made part of the improvement process rather than punished with fines and allowed to walk away without making the overall system better. This is another example why it is imperative that the airline industry never be allowed to transfer all of its security responsibilities to the federal government. This must always be a shared responsibility.

---

Sounds like NRO had people in the FAA command center, the "military cell" (see my post) but instead of acting to coordinate with NORAD, scrambling fighters and taking any action in general, they were gearing up for Vigilant Warrior. Built in confusion at the least.



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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #54
59. Director of Security at FAA was Michael Canavan
Canavan was an Army three star general, a former commander of Delta Force.
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JohnOneillsMemory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #54
60. Also, Secret Service could see what FAA radar was seeing. Ask them!
Edited on Thu May-06-04 05:23 PM by JohnOneillsMemory
-from Clarke's 'Against All Enemies' page 7-

Stafford slipped me a note. "Radar shows aircraft headed this way." Secret Service had a system that allowed them to see what FAA's radar was seeing. "I'm going to empty out the complex." He was ordering the evacuation of the White House.
--------------------------

Has the Secret Service been asked about what they saw on the FAA radar system on 9/11?

Of course, Clarke doesn't spill all the beans after spending decades playing for Uncle Sam. He writes a strange explanation for the many witnesses (including pilots in the air) who saw a surface-to-air missile shoot down TWA 800 in July 1996. You may recall that a fuel tank explosion was the official explanation:

-from Clarke's 'Against All Enemies' page 125-

"A simulation of the crash would later indicate that what witnesses saw as a streak of a missile going up toward the aircraft was actually a column of jet fuel from the initiaal explosion and rupture, falling and then catching fire, sending flame ascending prior to a second, larger fuel explosion."

Clarke also describes sending NSC staffer Steve Simon over to Pierre Salinger's home to ask him why he thought it was a case of friendly fire from the Coast Guard and Air Force's joint nighttime search-and-rescue exercise off Long Island using cutters and aircraft. (Another military exercise at that exact time and place?! What a coincidence!)

-from Clarke's 'Against All Enemies' page 126-

Finally he blurted out, "Plucky Pierre is whacked; he's lost it. The real world is a planet he left long ago." With that Simon spun around and went back to the office that had once belonged to Ollie North.
------------------

And that's all Clarke will give up on the official explanation of TWA800. Whacky, isn't it?
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #60
68. This "puzzle" is worth the investment.
I still WANT to believe that this leadership would NOT conspire (whether by complicity or otherwise) in the mass killing of OUR people for an ideological plan (Machiavellen-style).

Together, we can build a case towards "truth".

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ladjf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #60
102. Interview the controllers again.
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teryang Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
10. There goes peter cotton tail
...hiding all the rabbit trails.
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #10
71. Yup. Crazy. n/t
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Carni Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
11. Who was this "supervisor"
And why isn't his name published?

How long had this individual worked there and in what capacity?

I am already a LIHOP type and frankly this makes me think MIHOP.

I can think of no logical reason for this person to destroy that tape.

Wonder if there were additional people around to partake in that so called terror drill that was held on 911?
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #11
17. one logical reason only : make sure that info never surfaces
why? They must have said something that made somebody look bad, or revealed facts that cannot be safely revealed, i.e., why no escort response to the off-course airplanes. It was the FAAs responsibility to pass the alert on to NORAD. Info around and at that exact point in the story is foggy or missing, as far as we have been told. Now we know how some of it is missing, we still don't know why.
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Veggie Meathead Donating Member (999 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
15. May be Rose Mary Woods reincarnated and did her
18 minutes tape erasure act all over again.
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JohnOneillsMemory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 01:41 PM
Response to Original message
18. Rosemary Woods should never have been hired by the FAA. n/t
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CaptainClark23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
20. Fury
Blind with rage.

I have now officially ceased to believe in any form of peaceful resolution to this travesty.

All bets are off. Good luck to Kerry and the rest of the Dems. But their ascension will not heal this wound inflicted upon us.

War has been declared and it has nothing to do with muslims or the middle east.

Never forget. Never ever ever fucking forget.

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Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 02:04 PM
Response to Original message
24. what a fool
how petty a bureaucrat do you have to be to not understand the value of those tapes he destroyed, just to cover a little ass.


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JayS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #24
29. The government has a thing about tapes. Check out what is...
...going on in our neck of the woods. The short NPR piece is especially telling.


__________________


Go to http://www.npr.org/features/feature.php?wfId=1846269 for a short but interesting audio clip. Click on "All Things Considered audio" and you can listen in RealAudio or Windows Media.

Also of interest:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/ap/2004... ...

Document: Oklahoma City Bombing Was Taped
By JOHN SOLOMON, Associated Press Writer
Mon Apr 19, 6:59 PM ET

WASHINGTON - A Secret Service document written shortly after the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing described security video footage of the attack and witness testimony that suggested Timothy McVeigh (news - web sites) may have had accomplices at the scene.

"Security video tapes from the area show the truck detonation 3 minutes and 6 seconds after the suspects exited the truck," the Secret Service reported six days after the attack on a log of agents' activities and evidence in the Oklahoma investigation.

*SNIP*

An entry a day earlier on the same log reported that the security video was consistent with a witness' account that he saw McVeigh's getaway car in the lead before a woman guided the truck to its final parking spot in front of the Murrah building.

"A witness to the explosion named Grossman claimed to have seen a pale yellow Mercury car with a Ryder truck behind it pulling up to the federal building," the log said. The witness "further claimed to have seen a woman on the corner waving to the truck."

A Secret Service agent named McNally "noted that this fact is significant due to the fact that the security video shows the Ryder truck pulling up to the Federal Building and then pausing (7 to 10 seconds) before resuming into the slot in front of the building," the log said. "It is speculated that the woman was signaling the truck when a slot became available."

*SNIP*


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PaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #29
86. Yup...the Media was THERE
in place on 911, waiting....and, remember this--Asscan has already MET w/ the MEDIA a few months ago to discuss how to "air" if/when another one happens...Also note, the recent regularity of the media saying another one's being planned, but they "don't know what"! My ass they don't know what!
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reprobate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
26. Does anyone here still think 9/11 and bush had no connection?

On the morning of 9/11 I remember thinking as I watched the aircraft hitting the WTC that 'they' were finally coming after us.

It wasn't too long after this that things started to become known that changed my mindl. Everything that's come out has pointed more and more in the direction of LIHOP. Frankly, I think that's a cop out. I truly believe that THEY MADE IT HAPPEN ON PURPOSE.

If one looks at all the connections between the junta and the attacks, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to come to the conclusion that our gov't engaged in TREASON. Yes, TREASON. I said it and I feel much better. Anyone who has been here at DU for any length of time has been exposed to enough information to come to the same conclusion. And at last, with Moore's new film coming out this summer, the public will be exposed to more of the info that we have known since the actual events.

They will know about the connection between * and the bin Ladins.

And that may be all it takes to turn the tide.

I don't mean the tide of the election. I think that's now almost assured. I mean the tide that will sweep in and cause the public to demand a REAL investigation and multiple trials for such treasonous actions. I want to see them all do the perp walk.
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JayS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. To Make It Happen On Purpose would require a certain degree...
...of competency...and well...you know. :)
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R Hickey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 02:33 PM
Response to Original message
30. That stock market thing was quietly swept under the rug, why not this?
Suspicious.
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chimpymustgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 02:36 PM
Response to Original message
32. MIHOPMIHOPMIHOPMIHOPMIHOPMIHOPMIHOPMIHOPMIHOPMIHOP
"...it was later destroyed by an F.A.A. quality-assurance manager, who crushed the cassette in his hand, cut the tape into little pieces and dropped them in different trash cans around the building..."

MIHOP
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JawJaw Donating Member (574 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #32
38. Whhhaaaa tha fuuuuuuuuuu!!!???!
Cutting up tapes & dropping bits into different bins ???!!!!???

But surely this goes against EVERYTHING that a quality assurance manager is trained to, i.e. to record information meticulously and to ensure that there is a "paper-trail" or "tape-trail" above all else. This principle applies WHATEVER process is being QA tested, be it a factory making plastic ducks, a school, or a government department responsible for controlling air traffic.

Words fail me!

I just can't believe that someone would committ such a crime, without an ulterior motive.

Has this guy been called to testify in front of the 9-11 panel? If not, why not?

This stinks REAL BAD

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Raster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #38
45. let's just say the "quality assurance manager" didn't want anyone...
...to ever hear what was on that tape. Dollar to a donut he is a repug, further donut says he's been given a raise, new job, etc. Some type of reward.

And the 9/11 panel, what a joke. Wake up and smell the java. gee-dubya and darth vader testify together, NOT under oath, no stenographer or recording devices present and the commission's notebooks confiscated on the way out the door. We are beyond smelling the coffee. It's time to be swinging 50 lbs. sacks of beans around. Something horribly wrong happended on 9/11 and not what most people think. Something far more sinister. LIHOP, MIHOP, whatever. IT HAPPENED ON PURPOSE. The real question is, who really benefitted--qui bono--from 9/11? Ask who really benefitted, profited, advanced, and you will find complicity. You will also find the answer to most of our 9/11 questions. Factor in the fact that this administration has done anything and everything to hamstring and roadblock the investigation. Why? Will you ever be able to trust this government again? I know I won't.
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #45
73. Trust,...it is being betrayed,...every single day *cry*. n/t
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Woody Box Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:16 PM
Response to Original message
36. Ronkonkoma

Note that the message concerns the ATCC in Ronkonkoma, Long Island. This center deals with the high-altitude flights over New York City and adjacent area (up to eastern Pennsylvania, Northern Maryland and so on) including the ocean.

So the controllers on the tape were talking about the last phases of flight 11 and flight 175 - or, possibly, the first half of flight 93.

What happened in the skies over New York City?



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DulceDecorum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:36 PM
Response to Original message
37. Meanwhile, ALL FOUR planes
survived the events of September 11, 2001.

The two separate foreign owners of the two American Airlines planes took them off the FAA register by claiming that both their respective jets were destroyed on January 14, 2002.

The two United Airlines planes remain on the FAA registry to this very day.
Furthermore, N591UA, better known as Flight 93,
has been seen flying around Chicago and has landed at the United Airlines hub at O'Hare.
United is passing this plane off (Serial number 28142)
to Air Traffic Control and the FAA,
as N594UA. (Serial Number 28145)

You can verify the FAA registrations for yourself at
http://162.58.35.241/ACDATABASE/DEFimg.ASP
and the relevant N-Numbers and serial numbers
are easily obtained from any search engine.

For more information on the pilots and the planes,
come on down to the 9:11 forum and look at some of the threads
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hang a left Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #37
48. I forgot about this one.
There are so many twists in this plot, you cannot possibly keep track of them all. I have a unreliable short term memory, sometimes I get reminded of some conspiracy fact in a thread.

No bout adoubt it for me.........MIHOP
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #37
52. Oh, man,....stop messing with me!!!!
Tell me this is NOT true? Why the FUCK isn't this smelly shit attracting more attention?

Geezus freakin' crust!!!! I am printing out this entire string.

Tomorrow, I'm getting away from phones, newspapers, computers and the world for a few days. I need to get back to center and get the fuck away from this shit.

DAMN!!!

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mn9driver Donating Member (877 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #37
75. Not true, DD. The flaws in your theory have been pointed out
numerous times over in the :tinfoilhat: forum.
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hang a left Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #75
85. Have they now?
Well lets have a look. What do you got?
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mn9driver Donating Member (877 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 07:13 AM
Response to Reply #85
88. Since you're a donating member, you can search my posts.
Quite a few have dealt with this subject and other areas of gross misinterpretation concerning the aviation aspects of 9/11. Here's an example:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

9/11 could turn out to be LIHOP or MIHOP, but a lot of the stuff I've seen that supposedly supports these theories has been misinterpreted by those who either don't know any better or have an agenda of their own. I've generally given up trying to educate people who don't want to hear what I have to say, but when something pops up on the GD or LBN forums, I feel obligated to speak up.

This latest incident concerning the destruction of this tape is troubling, if only because of the detailed description of how it was destroyed--that is really odd. In my job I videotape flight crew performance for later review and all we do is stick it on a bulk eraser when we're done with it.
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #88
95. Usually,
when a crime is being committed, the evidence is dispersed as widely as possible if the crime is big enough and there is enough time to do so.

Of course, it would be possible to reconstruct that tape, and if the trash wasn't incinerated, there may be a way to recover portions of it. I wonder how small the pieces were.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:38 PM
Response to Original message
39. Kicking for this intensely important news.
:kick:
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displacedtexan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:40 PM
Response to Original message
40. And I don't believe the black boxes vaporized, either!
Cover up.

Big Time.
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:44 PM
Response to Original message
41. I wonder...
... how much he got paid?
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:45 PM
Response to Original message
42. COVERUP, COVERUP, COVERUP, WORSE THAN NIXON! nt
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #42
56. Nixon is a "SAINT" compared to these people!!!!
And, I am being to believe that,...these are the same evil people who drove Nixon towards his own demise.

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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #56
58. Yep, the Evildoers never die...They just get recycled in Cabinet positions
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:32 PM
Response to Original message
70. Kicking for attention,...
,...*blush*,...I just cannot help myself *LOL*!!!
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mn9driver Donating Member (877 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:15 PM
Response to Original message
74. There is a formal protocol for interviews of this type.
It serves two purposes:

1. It protects the legal rights of the interview subject.
2. It provides a consistent, legally defined framework for the investigative process.

9/11 was so off the charts that it appears the protocol was compromised by shell-shocked ATC supervisors. The person who destroyed the tapes very likely thought that they were protecting the integrity of the process by destroying improperly obtained testimony.

In retrospect, was that a good call? Probably not, though I feel certain that the ATC's whose interviews were destroyed got another chance to go on record--too bad we can't compare the original tapes to the "official" version, though.
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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #74
90. Right.
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bacchant Donating Member (747 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #74
94. Nice try
Thanks for the repuke talking-points preview.
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mn9driver Donating Member (877 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #94
96. Try? Try what?
Are you implying that I'm part of the "conspiracy"? I'm just a guy who knows a little bit about the subject; sorry if that is somehow threatening to you.
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Snazzy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:32 PM
Response to Original message
76. There is now an AP story on Yahoo. Rate it.
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crossroads Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #76
78.  rated 4.12 58 views @ 10:17 PM
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #78
84. Its current average rating is 4.23 with 70 vote(s). at 12:04 pm,EST, n/t
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:34 PM
Response to Original message
77. Email address of the 9-11 commission:
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 10:20 PM
Response to Original message
79. I will never forget,...my forgiveness MUST be earned.
I have given my whole life to the "well-being" of ALL people. These evil fucks have consumed everything to serve themselves.

I will NEVER forget. These black-holes have scant chance of ever earning my forgiveness.
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ljm2002 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 10:54 PM
Response to Original message
82. Imagine that
A recorded transcript, first hand evidence from air traffic controllers on 9/11, is destroyed well AFTER the FAA has been instructed that if there is any question, to err on the side of retaining records... and this guy not only destroys the tape but goes to great lengths to ensure that it is unrecoverable...

Now why do you suppose a person would do that? Not because he's trying to HIDE anything? Naw, couldn't be.

:grr:

Unbelievably outrageous. We should send the person in question to Abu Ghraib for a little "frat hazing", see if we can get him to talk -- I'm guessing he knows what was on that tape...

Okay, not really. I don't believe in torture. But damn, that makes me so mad I could spit.
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hang a left Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #82
83. You know I have been thinking about this all day.
If you wanted to make sure that you lived until you were old and all krinkled up, you surely would want to have a copy of that tape...... somewhere......for insurance.
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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #82
91. He's "shellshocked", "everything changed after 9-11", etc
Don't you know?
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paulthompson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 12:16 AM
Response to Original message
87. What are they hiding? Try this for starters
There was a rare leak just after 9/11 and before the wall of silence came down completely (traffic controllers were threatened with prison terms for talking to the press). To me, it suggests a Flight 93 shoot down. If that were true that would be a scandal since so many gvmt agents were hooked into the calls from the passengers saying they were planning on taking over the plane 20+ minutes before it crashed. Could this have been what was on the audio tape that was crushed, scattered, and destroyed?


FAA Worker Says Hijacked Jetliners Almost Collided Before Striking World Trade Center

by Albert McKeon
The Nashua Telegraph
September 13, 2001

http://www.unansweredquestions.net/timeline/2001/nashua...

The two hijacked jets that sliced into the World Trade Center nearly crashed into each other before reaching New York City, according to a Federal Aviation Administration employee who works in the Nashua control facility.

...

Controllers have also learned that an F-16 fighter closely pursued hijacked United Airlines Flight 93 until it crashed in southwestern Pennsylvania, the employee said.

Although controllers don't have complete details of the Air Force's chase of the Boeing 757, they have learned the F-16 made 360-degree turns to remain close to the commercial jet, the employee said.

"He must've seen the whole thing," the employee said of the F-16 pilot's view of Flight 93's crash.


Also here:

http://www.pressherald.com/news/attack/010913faa.shtml


The official story from NORAD is that the closest fighters were 11 minutes and 100 miles away when Flight 93 crashed.

http://web.archive.org/web/20020615115751/http://www.no...
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Woody Box Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #87
92. No, the crash/shooting of UA 93

was in the Cleveland Center Airspace.

The controllers on the tape were working in Ronkonkoma Center, Long Island. They watched the final minutes of AA 11 and UA 175.


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Nihil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 09:34 AM
Response to Original message
89. Kicking (after arriving from a locked thread on the subject)
(I can't believe this has been allowed to sink beneath the dozens of
Lyndie England threads ...)

> the tape was destroyed by a supervisor without anyone making a
> transcript or even listening to it, the Transportation Department said

This is SO incredible
:wtf:

Nihil
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Castilleja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #89
93. I think I'll second that kick...n/t
Fascinating info.
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #93
100. here's third...haven't seen any mention on TV
:kick:
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keithyboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 12:46 PM
Response to Original message
97. Why isn't this scandal number 33?
Why aren't Rush and Hannity screaming about this?
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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 02:13 PM
Response to Original message
98. Let's give everyone a chance to read this. Kick.
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 02:47 PM
Response to Original message
99. Uh-HUH!
and it was on the back page of the Minneapolis Star-Tribune.

No, there's nothing suspicious going on here. Some guy just destroys a tape containing the immediate reactions of the people who were tracking the planes, so that the FBI or whoever can have a chance to bring them up to date on the official story.

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ladjf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 06:42 PM
Response to Original message
101. Reconvene the six controllers.
What's wrong with reconvening the six controllers and at least try to re-record their experiences of the day.
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