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Ediacara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 10:23 AM
Original message
For Roseville CA schools, Darwin debate rolls on | Sacramento Bee
For Roseville schools, Darwin debate rolls on
Compromise on teaching evolution headed for vote.


By Laurel Rosen -- Bee Staff Writer
Published 2:15 am PDT Thursday, May 6, 2004

The debate over teaching Charles Darwin's theory to Roseville high school students continues to evolve.

The latest discussion involves a parent's proposal for science teachers to introduce arguments against evolution when they teach evidence in its favor.

The suggestion hasn't won the support of Roseville Joint Union High School District trustees.

Headed for a vote, however, is a compromise version that says teachers would be expected to present arguments against evolution but could decide how to teach perceived weaknesses in the theory. A date for trustees to take up this modified proposal has not been set.

More at the Sacramento Bee
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gWbush is Mabus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 10:26 AM
Response to Original message
1. how about arguments against "the earth is round" too while they are at it
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Zeke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. To Hell With You...
The earth is flat and everyone knows it!

A round earth!

Come on, get real!
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BrotherBuzz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #5
13. Hey, you're both right!
The earth is round and flat, just like a record (rumor there is a hole in the middle, too).
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TrogL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. Actually, it's vaguely pear shaped
by about a kilometer
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BrotherBuzz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #18
23. You're right...
I'm from the old school, and it was flat in my days. Interesting, they just noticed it in the last four years:



The Earth: Now it's all going pear-shaped


American scientists say the Earth has suddenly become fatter round the middle in the
last four years.

Like a pumpkin, the planet is a little bit wider around the equator than a perfect sphere
would be.

For 19 years its waistline shrank, but since 1998 it has been expanding, according to a
study in the journal Science.

Christopher Cox and Benjamin Chao noticed the bizarre phenomenon after studying
space-based observations from the past 25 years.

They found that a measurement of the Earth's width called J2, which excludes tidal
effects, has generally been decreasing for most of that time.

The main reason is that the melting of the ice caps has caused the mantle - the thick
layer of nearly-molten rock between the crust and the Earth's core - to rebound.

But they subsequently discovered that around four years ago the Earth's "dynamic
oblateness"- its girth - began to increase.

The study adds that the trend is continuing to the present day.

According to their calculations, neither global sea level rise nor faster melting of
glacial ice could have produced such a sharp change.

Mr Cox, of Raytheon Information and Scientific Services, and Nasa scientist Mr Chao
suggest that shifting of mass at the boundary between the Earth's core and the mantle
may be responsible.

www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_641795.html?menu=news.sci...
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 10:27 AM
Response to Original message
2. And as an added bonus
Teachers will be encouraged to present arguments against the roundness of the earth...
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Bill McBlueState Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 10:29 AM
Response to Original message
3. how long do we have to fight this battle?
The rest of the world got over this a loooooong time ago. It's almost getting boring, having to knock down the same retarded arguments over and over again.
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Ediacara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. it's such a waste of time
State and federal courts have said numerous times that teaching creationism in any form violates the seperation of church and state. Creationists all know this, yet they continue to try to make it work. Talk about square peg in a round hole....
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reprobate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. How long? Until all american children are taught rational thinking.

And learn to reject mythology as fact.

I think the reason that europeans don't fall for this crap is that they remember the time when religion ruled their countries and don't want any more of it.

We of course, are made up of people whose ability to think has been limited by an education that has been crippled.
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Ediacara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. Absolutely
When critical thinking and skepticism are taught to kids as a process they should go through, not just in science, but in all aspects of life from politics to used car salesmen, then creationism will disappear.

Unfortunately, it will never happen because when kids think critically, they'll think critically about ULTIMATE questions, and we can't have kids thinking critically about THAT kind of stuff.
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Stuckinthebush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #3
12. As long as we have simple minded people
wedded to the myth that the Bible is completely factual.

So in other words, a very long time.

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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #3
22. Don't you realise it's part of the great American entertainment industry?
We're laughing our asses off here in the rest of the world. It's like watching the Keystone Kops.
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David__77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 10:33 AM
Response to Original message
6. Egads, I live not too far from there.
Roseville is very Republican and becoming more so--2 to 1. But I'd say that recent transplants are "fiscally conservative, socially moderate." I'm not sure that there is much local support for this sort of thing, hence the reluctance of the board to approve such a thing. But I say keep on. I might not mind the far right being very aggressive there. Some of these moderate GOPers might just have to start breaking up the one-party system there.
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One_Life_To_Give Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 10:38 AM
Response to Original message
8. Wonder Why
Well heres one reason why we are loosing leadership in the sciences. Heaven forbid we should teach science in a science class.
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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #8
24. Hi One_Life_To_Give!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 10:40 AM
Response to Original message
9. The Theory of Gravity should also have an argument taught against it.
After all a Theory isn't proof of existence. It is only a person's belief just like creationism. It also is a theory although not scientific. :crazy:
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One_Life_To_Give Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. Gravities Bull
Everyone know there aint any such thing as GRAVITY!

The Earth Sucks }(

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progressivebydesign Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 11:35 AM
Response to Original message
14. Why are we going backwards??? The American Taliban?
Why don't these religious nuts put their precious little brainwashed children in CHRISTIAN schools and leave the rest of us alone!!!????? I'm SOO SICK of them trying to destroy public education. Go to a private school were you can teach any stupid ass superstition you'd like.. leave the thinking people alone.
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TrogL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #14
19. Because they'll take their tax base with them
Don't encourage them. Their plan is to introduce vouchers that can be used at whatever school you want. They will send their kids to Xtian schools and do everything in their power to eliminate the public system, hence the only place to get an education will be a Xtian school.
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TrogL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. See what I mean?
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 12:41 PM
Response to Original message
15. roseville is next on the list of community's
that gay people are going to gentrify -- the fundies will leave shortly. :evilgrin:
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murielm99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:21 PM
Response to Original message
16. I attended a Christian university.
Believe me, it was not affiliated in name only. The Christian ethos pervaded the atmosphere. Daily chapel attendance is not mandatory any more, but it was for a long time. All undergrads are required to take a certain number of theology courses. Those courses usually explain the Christian tradition, and involve some Bible study.

Their science departments are excellent. They produce many people who go on to medical school. Their religion department is excellent also. (So is engineering, which has nothing to do with it, lol).

They teach, and have always taught science in the science department, and religion in the religion department. They teach the theory of evolution. Big deal.

If these people are going to have such hissy fits, why don't they have a separate elective called Creation Stories? They can teach the creation myths of several cultures. If the students want to believe that the Christian creation myth is the best one, let them. Just keep it out of the sciences.

I am so sick of these people. Science and faith can co-exist. I have seen it with my own eyes.

Proud graduate of Valparaiso University.
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reprobate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 04:27 PM
Response to Original message
17. Can someone please hurry up the rapture?

We'd all be a lot better off if they would just go up to heaven and leave the rest of us alone to get on with life. They aren't interested in life, they only care about death, and after life.
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JohnOneillsMemory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 04:58 PM
Response to Original message
21. Evolution is Not Optional. It is Natural Law. Resistance is Futile. n/t
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