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ConcernedCanuk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:48 AM
Original message
Red Cross Says Repeatedly Warned U.S. on Iraq Jail
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.
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Red Cross Says Repeatedly Warned U.S. on Iraq Jail


2 hours, 31 minutes ago


GENEVA (Reuters)
- The International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) said on Thursday it had repeatedly urged the United States to take "corrective action" at a Baghdad jail which is at the center of a scandal over Iraqi prisoner abuse.



The Geneva-based ICRC, which is mandated under various international treaties to visit prisoners, has had regular access to the Abu Ghraib jail since the U.S.-led occupation forces began to use it last year, according to chief spokeswoman Antonella Notari.

"The ICRC, aware of the situation, and based on its findings, has repeatedly asked the U.S. authorities to take corrective action," she told Reuters.



Anyone surprized? :shrug:

Not me.

(sigh)
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:57 AM
Response to Original message
1. IT JUST KEEPS GETTING MORE OUTRAGEOUS
Edited on Thu May-06-04 07:58 AM by saigon68
Oh ya--MY European friends, who I clued in years ago about the Chimp now see it for what its worth. 90% of the people in Europe not only "Detest" the gov't here-- but they are starting to "HATE" us
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Capt_Nemo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 08:27 AM
Response to Reply #1
7. Not yet, saigon,
It is true most of us hate your goverment (although there is still a
large neo-con fan-club in our ruling elites) BUT we still stop short
of seing them as equivalent to the american people.

Now, if in November this bunch of war criminals get a 2nd term in office,
americans will no more be given the benefit of doubt by europeans.
They will have embraced evil and therefore will have to accept
the consequences.
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Barrett808 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #7
13. We, of course, are worried that there won't be a real election
Either because Diebold, ES&S, at al, rig the voting software, or because a convenient October Surprise "terror attack" renders elections "infeasible at this time."
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reprobate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #7
18. Ahoy, Captain.

"They will have embraced evil and therefore will have to accept
the consequences."

I'd be interested to hear your predictions of the consequences. Do you think it will be limited to gov't to gov't interactions, or will individual americans be in danger when travelling in europe?

I intentionally leave out any terror attacks in the US because as November approaches the likelyhood of another LIHOP or MIHOP attack increases in my mind.


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Raven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:58 AM
Response to Original message
2. Why didn't the Red Cross blow the whistle?
I posted this question of GD. I just don't get it!
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ConcernedCanuk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #2
9. It is part of their mandate, - "rules" if you like
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If there wasn't that sort of "lawyer/client" privilege, the Red Cross wouldn't be getting access at all.

It IS sort of distasteful, but if the Red Cross violated that confidentiality feature, then the world would NEVER know about alot of the things we do.

At least they have a record, and just by saying so, they "validate" the claims of the victims.

It's not the best system, but it IS the best one we have for now.

(sigh)
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dArKeR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #2
17. If thought morality and God's rules were above all? 'Elizabeth, she's
doing a heck of a job at the Red Cross.' Quote from Bob Dole on LK Live. I know she's from the American Red Cross which I'm not sure how it hand its hand in this but I can't resists using Bob's quote especially how we found out how bad the American Red Cross was actually being run.
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Stockholm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #2
26. They did but unfortunately no one listened!
The international Red Cross is unamerican, cant you tell just by the name?

The international community should take some heat for not pressuring the US on this issue.
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MaineDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:58 AM
Response to Original message
3. I just heard this on the BBC
I was looking for a link. THanks for posting this.

It goes to prove that someone knew before they claim they knew.

And Clinton was impeached for what???! Pathetic.
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 08:52 AM
Response to Reply #3
10. Yup. Additional proof of a cover-up!!!
Additional proof that the administration knew, hid the situation from everyone, and did nothing.

Makes me mad as hell!! :grr:

Evil, rotten, greedy neocons. :puke:
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #10
19. No "actionable intelligence" again.
:shrug:
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ConcernedCanuk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 08:09 AM
Response to Original message
4. Also front page in today's Toronto Star
Edited on Thu May-06-04 08:12 AM by ConcernedCanuk
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U.S. ignored abuse pleas, Red Cross says
'We were aware of what was going on,' aid organization says
May. 6, 2004. 06:49 AM


GENEVA (AP) The international Red Cross said Thursday that it had repeatedly asked U.S. authorities to take action over prisoner abuse at Iraq's Abu Ghraib prison before recent revelations about the way detainees were treated.

"We were aware of what was going on, and based on our findings we have repeatedly requested the U.S. authorities to take corrective action," said Nada Doumani, spokesperson for the International Commitee of the Red Cross, speaking from Amman, Jordan.




All the US's threats, bribes, bullets and bombs can't fix this.

The "superpower" has "fallen", whether they realize it or not.

To lose one's good reputaion,

Is to lose it all.

That's My Canuk Opinion
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 08:09 AM
Response to Original message
5. But Bush just heard on the Tee Vee like everyone else, so it MUST...
just be a few bad apples, right?
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 08:15 AM
Response to Original message
6. read this interview with the Red Cross from 5/4/04
RN: "One of the persons involved in the present controversy, Brigadier-General Janis Karpinski, the former head of the military police in the prison, has stated that there were efforts by military intelligence officers to try and prevent the ICRC from visiting a specific part of the prison, known as cellblock 1A. What did you notice of such efforts?"

"There may have been such efforts but if there were, they did not succeed. We are convinced that we were able to see all the prisoners, the whole facility of Abu Ghraib, to speak to any prisoner of our choice."

"It's very important to underline that these private talks with the prisoners are one important source of information for the delegates to know how the prisoners are being treated, what problems they encounter, and to compare from the various testimonies these prisoners give us if there is in fact a problem in the prison that concerns either their treatment or the conditions of detention, or any other aspects, their relations with guards, etc. This information from prisoners and other information that we get through our own observations in the prison <> help us to compile the reports that we submit to the authorities."

RN: "How would you qualify the treatment of prisoners in the Abu Ghraib prison?"

"I should say first of all that these pictures that have now appeared in the public domain concerning the abuse against prisoners are of course deeply shocking and revolting. They are degrading, in particular also for the people who committed such abuses - if they did, and it appears that it is being taken very seriously and it appears there is something behind it. We, on our side, don't report publicly on our findings, we report directly to the detaining authorities. So we will not be able to testify to the veracity of these reports or not."

~snip~

RN: "But if the ICRC did inspect the Abu Ghraib prison right from the beginning, why have abuses of the kind that are now being published never been reported by the ICRC?"

"As I said, they have been reported, but not publicly. We don't say that that our visits immediately have an effect, they don't always change the reality for the prisoner immediately, but we do think they have an effect. You have to consider that these photos have come out now, but what they portray is something that has happened months ago and that there are already measures being taken on the American side - we hope also on the British side, for other places of detention in Iraq <...>"

~snip~

http://www.rnw.nl/hotspots/html/irq040504.html


They knew, and they made sure the US knew, too.
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-08-04 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #6
24. A warning ignored
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RamblingRose Donating Member (403 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 08:48 AM
Response to Original message
8. Members of congress should be mad as hell!!!
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TacticalPeek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:54 AM
Response to Original message
11. I believe it was Amb. Joe Wilson on c-span this am
Edited on Thu May-06-04 09:56 AM by TacticalPeak
who called for the public release of the International Red Cross and International Red Crescent reports on these conditions. The reports were made to us, and we could release them.

But I'm not certain that was Wilson's remark, still achieving optimum caffeine levels.
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ConcernedCanuk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:55 AM
Response to Original message
12. " repeatedly requested the U.S. authorities to take corrective action,"
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.
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Red Cross Sought Action on Prisoner Abuse

"We were aware of what was going on,
and based on our findings we have repeatedly requested the U.S. authorities to take corrective action," said Nada Doumani, spokeswoman for the International Committee of the Red Cross, speaking from Amman, Jordan.

The ICRC, which visits prisoners held by coalition authorities in Iraq, had previously declined to comment publicly on conditions at the prison.

"We've been visiting Abu Ghraib prison since already from last year," Doumani told The Associated Press. "We are of course aware of the situation since we talk with the detainees privately.

"We get testimony from them. We visit all the premises in this place. We crosscheck information we receive from different detainees. Definitely we were aware of what was going on in Abu Ghraib.



Once again, the Bush Gang KNEW.

What else do they know? :shrug:

What's next?

:scared:
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ConcernedCanuk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 10:07 AM
Response to Original message
14. Just curious, are the new pictures of the naked hadcuffed Iraqis shown
.
.
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on US media this morning?

They are all over CTV and CBC this morning, including the ones where the Iraqi is handcuffed to the bed, one on the cell bars,and the one with Lynndie England holding that leash around the neck of the naked Iraqi man on the prison floor.

This is what us Canadians are seeing this morning.

(I feel sick)

and helpless
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. there all over BBC and CNNI as well n/t
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Kool Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-08-04 03:29 AM
Response to Reply #14
23. The pic of Ms. England and the man on a leash
(Jesus, I can't believe I'm writing those words-man on a leash) was on the front page of the NYTimes on Friday, above the fold. What a nightmare this is.
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gypsy11 Donating Member (286 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 10:12 AM
Response to Original message
15. I want to cry
I am so sick over this, over it all. I feel like I'm living in a nightmare, and I fear it's going to get so much worse. How can humans treat other humans this way??? And I'd like to know, how can there be so much apathy over it all? I truly don't understand that kind of mind set. It just doesn't compute.
I have never felt such a deep seated hate for anything in all my life that do for that little ass hole that calls himself president and his ilk. :mad:
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reprobate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #15
20. I'm afraid you've been living in fantasy land.

Read Howard Zinn's "A People's History of the United States".

Since colonization, the powerful of the US has been killing, maiming, and torturing those who stood in their way. Usually this was limited to those who could not fight back effectively.

It's time we realized that the myth of "American goodness" is a construct of the powerful to keep the rest of us in line.

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gypsy11 Donating Member (286 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. No, not a fantasy land
I'm well aware of what the United States has done through-out it's history. And it makes me want to cry.
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ConcernedCanuk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-08-04 02:35 AM
Response to Original message
22. Updated, new statements from the Red Cross
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.
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Red Cross: Abuse of Iraqis widespread
Saturday 08 May 2004, 2:44 Makka Time, 23:44 GMT
Iraqi detainees have suffered abuse so widespread it appears to have been accepted by US-led forces, the International Committee of the Red Cross says.

Breaking its usual vow of silence, the Geneva-based humanitarian organisation on Friday said visits to detention centres in Iraq - carried out between March and November 2003 - showed infringements of international treaties on the treatment of prisoners of war.

In some cases, the ill-treatment was "tantamount to torture," particularly when interrogators were seeking information or confessions, the ICRC said in a report, parts of which were published in US financial daily the Wall Street Journal.

/snip/

In the report, the ICRC said prisoners at Abu Ghuraib were held naked in empty cells and beaten by soldiers. Three former military policemen at the prison told Reuters on Thursday that abuse was commonplace.

The humanitarian group also said US-led occupation forces fired on unarmed prisoners from watchtowers and killed some of them, as well as committing "serious violations" of the Geneva Conventions governing treatment of war prisoners.



It just keeps getting worse,

and I can't help thinking what the International Red Cross DIDN'T see.

I'm certain it is much much worse than what they saw.

(sigh)

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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 09:12 AM
Response to Reply #22
25. Ignored by President Cheney
And the NeoCons
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anarchy1999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-09-04 10:23 AM
Response to Original message
27. Okay Everyone! Deep Breaths, IN, Out....... We all knew this.
Edited on Sun May-09-04 10:24 AM by anarchy1999
We have known for some time. Most of us here at DU could not get anyone to listen. Okay, the scandal has broken and there is much worse to come.

It is Time To Step It Up! Calls on the media, calls on our beloved "CongressCritters". THE TIME IS NOW!

Get RID OF THIS ENTIRE MAL-ADMINISTRATION!

Criminals, each and every one of them.
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