Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

The torture victim (the man in the hood at Abu Ghraib)

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Latest Breaking News Donate to DU
 
DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 05:45 AM
Original message
The torture victim (the man in the hood at Abu Ghraib)
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/story.j...

06 May 2004

Hayder Sabbar Abd is the man in the hood. He was one of the Iraqi prisoners stripped, humiliated, beaten and abused by American reservists and interrogators at Abu Ghraib prison in what is arguably the worst scandal to engulf the United States military since the massacre of Vietnamese villagers at My Lai in 1968.

<snip>

In an extraordinary interview published yesterday, Mr Abd detailed a catalogue of abuse and sexual humiliation inflicted by captors at the sprawling prison complex west of Baghdad, which for decades was notorious as the location of Saddam Hussein's torture and execution rooms.

<snip>

Mr Abd said he recalled having his hood removed and being told by the soldiers' Arabic translator to masturbate as he looked at Ms England. "She was laughing and she put her hands on her breasts," he told the newspaper. "Of course I couldn't do it, so they beat me in the stomach and I fell to the ground. The translator said, 'Do it, do it. It's better than being beaten.' I said 'How can I do it?' So I put my hand on my penis, just pretending."

<snip>

Records obtained by The Independent reveal that this is not the first time that Specialist Graner has been involved in abuse allegations. His ex-wife obtained three separate "temporary protection of abuse" orders from a judge in their home town in Pennsylvania. The Defence Secretary, Donald Rumsfeld, is now under intense pressure and will be forced to try to explain why the abuse was allowed to take place when he appears before senators on Capitol Hill today. And still the allegations grow. Ann Clwyd, Tony Blair's personal envoy to Iraq, has claimed that a 70-year-old woman was ridden like a donkey by US troops, while up to 17 Iraqi families are expected to seek compensation for relatives allegedly killed by British troops in Iraq since the end of the war. The MoD does not accept liability.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 05:56 AM
Response to Original message
1. How much worse can this get?
That's what I think... then I remember what happened at Mazar in Afghanistan...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
radwriter0555 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #1
48. those people are freeper filth...
they truly represent the freepers and the very worst of humanity.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lebkuchen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 05:57 AM
Response to Original message
2. Ms. England had told her mother she was at the "wrong place/wrong time."
Dear Ms. England,

You don't f*cking say.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
davhill Donating Member (854 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 06:41 AM
Response to Reply #2
9. We got 138,000 troops in the wrong place at the wrong time n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:03 AM
Response to Reply #2
10. Another young lady....
...who was in the wrong place at the wrong time:



Irma Grese/ Executed 1945

http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/biography/grese.html

"She habitually wore heavy boots and carried a whip and a pistol. She used both physical and emotional methods to torture the camp's inmates and enjoyed shooting prisoners in cold blood. She beat some of the women to death and whipped others mercilessly using a plaited whip."


http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/6142/irma.html

"She admitted that she regarded the inmates of the concentration camps as "dreck", i.e. subhuman rubbish and like you or I may kill an insect without feeling guilty about it, she saw nothing inherently wrong in what she was doing. At her trial she denied selecting prisoners for the gas chambers although she did admit she knew of their existence. She did admit to whipping prisoners with the cellophane whip and also to beating them with a walking stick, despite knowing that both practices were contrary to the camp rules."


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Streetdoc270 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #2
49. is there ever
a right time to be in the wrong place :shrug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 05:58 AM
Response to Original message
3. IT JUST GETS SICKER AND SICKER
I want Full Hearings on this.

The only way the world is ever going to have any faith in the US is if a few of these FOLKS Sergeants Excluded appear at the HAGUE as defendants.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ConcernedCanuk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 06:13 AM
Response to Original message
4. First the war in Iraq tied with Vietnam, now this to My-Lai ?
.
.
.

And remember, the "Road of Death" from Gulf War One?

This is where all the "little guys" start "attacking" the bully that has run roughshod over many nations. They will be "fighting back" by bringing all the US's transgressions out into the limelight. Blogger's keyboards are just going to be pounding into the wee hours.

THIS IS NOT GOING TO GO AWAY.

The US has pushed so many, for so long, and unless they can bomb every keyboard in the world, the "smear" on the United States has just begun.

Sorry to say,

But they asked for it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
anarchy1999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 06:26 AM
Response to Original message
5. Aren't Graner and Lyndie England engaged How much worse can this get?
Maybe a blue dress will show up? You think?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:04 AM
Response to Reply #5
11. Lyndie is pregnant with Grainer's child---ugh...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jivenwail Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 06:28 AM
Response to Original message
6. This is so disgusting, words are difficult
I'm just in shock over this stuff. I weep for the Iraqi people. They didn't ask for any of this.

And it's appalls me even further to learn, again, that awol vows to get the bad guys and bring them to justice. When was the last time this moron spoke those same words? And he wants swift investigations? When have we never heard those words?

I am just so angry about all of this. It's so disheartening and so unbelievable to me to know that this administration accepts no responsibility for this - or anything else. Certainly not 9-11. No apologies and no firings. Nothing. Not their fault. How in the hell do they get away with this time after time after time? Again, words just can't describe how I truly feel.

Rant over.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
anarchy1999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 06:37 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. One Word! APATHY!
Just go shopping, take a trip, help your economy, give up some of your freedoms for security,,......get the drift yet?

American Idol, Reality Shows out the Kazoo..., Movies to Die for, Sports all the time, what more do you need for heavens sake, dear? Let it go, move on. GO SHOPPING!!! It will all be better later. DID YOU SHOP TODAY?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
loudsue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 06:39 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. I'm w/ you, Jivenwail....I'm just sick to death
:cry:What has happened to our country? :cry: How do we keep electing thugs who enable the torture of innocent people all over the world?

Iran/Contra....Iraq....the bush family evil empire strikes again.

I was watching a special on History Channel last night about how the CIA hired former Nazis after World War II, and managed to get them papers so they could skip the country -- and avoid prosecution for their war crimes. Hundreds of them. Research shows Poppy Bush's dad was in on that whole fiasco. This whole gene string needs to be taken out of circulation. They're the devil, and they've been turned loose upon the world.

:kick:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
thecrow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:32 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. Who elected Smirky?
I've been crying since they "decided" to go to Iraq.
I cried when they did "shock and awe".
Apparently they didn't shock and awe us enough.
Smirky learnt about this on the tv the other night?
That right there is impeachable, if you ask me.
There are no words, not even SORRY that will heal this.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:41 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. That's right, ignorance is no excuse
From the day W stole the pResidency, he has either been too busy vacationing or fund raising. He has admitted that he doesn't even read his PDB's. That was why he didn't know about 9-11. That was why he didn't know that the info about WMD's had been debunked. Now this is why he didn't know about the pictures!

Image what new danger we may face because Bu$hler is too busy to keep himself informed? So now he can add dereliction of duty to his list of crimes. Is it time to remove him from power yet?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #13
31. Heck, if you think that's bad, I saw a quote last night
while reading around on the internet here in which dearest smirky actually said Joint Chiefs chief Richard Myers "wasn't in the chain of command. But he is a high-ranking official." Words to that effect. Jesus, Mary and Joseph! NOT IN THE CHAIN OF COMMAND? THE CHAIRMAN OF THE JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF IS NOT IN THE CHAIN OF COMMAND? HELLO?

The Joint Chiefs chief AND the Secretary of Defense BOTH REPORT DIRECTLY TO THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES. THAT, you stupid, ignorant, lightweight, asshole, is what's known in english-speaking circles as CHAIN OF COMMAND. The upper-most level of CHAIN OF COMMAND. What a dickhead. What an f-ing DICKHEAD.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #31
37. Myers wasn't in the Chain of Command of 9-11 either
He was too busy stalling in Cleland's office, waiting for the attack to finish.

Now tell me again, why both of these men are still in positions of power, in our country?


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #37
43. I imagine Myer's is thrilled to death at his latest creation
Lynndie England and her Merry Band of Thugs










The digital photographs were published today by The Washington Post. They show prisoners
handcuffed or shackled, most of them naked. Among the images is a picture of a female soldier
holding a leash, tied around a man's neck.
In another photo, a group of naked men is bound together on the floor of the prison. Another
shows a hooded, naked man handcuffed to a cell door; another man is naked and shackled to the
top bunk in a cell, with a pair of women's panties over his head.
The article said the collection included more than 1,000 photos and were taken from the summer
of 2003 through the winter. The Post did not publish them all, saying it could not be certain that
some of the images weren't staged.
According to The Post, the photos were taken by digital cameras and loaded onto compact discs,
which circulated among soldiers in an Army Reserve unit based in Maryland. The pictures were
seized by military investigators probing conditions at Abu Ghraib, a source close to the unit was
quoted as telling the newspaper
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #43
51. More likely, they are even more incendiary than what we have seen
"The Post did not publish them all, saying it could not be certain that some of the images weren't staged."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 08:09 AM
Response to Reply #12
17. So much to heal,...
,...so much damage to redress.

It is going to be a difficult challenge to regain the trust of people around the world.

We, Americans, had better accept that we have our own deep-seated, cultural problems which must be addressed. We especially need to focus on ridding ourselves of the hate-spewing radicals in our midst or at least sitting on their spread of skewed nationalism which is damaging the people of this country and those we touch outside our boundaries.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
happynewyear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #12
52. his stupidity and arrogance are no excuses
Bush needs to resign, Rumsfeld needs to resign, Powell needs to resign, Wolfowitz needs to resign, THEY ALL MUST GO and go quickly they must before they are tried and convicted to be the war criminals that they are!

Nothing will heal this you are right.

The only thing we have in our favor is time. Time can help and a change of leadership and policies might help too.

U.S. OUT OF IRAQ NOW!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nodictators Donating Member (977 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #6
26. How do they (the Bushites) get away with it?
Answer: Because they have our TV "Heil Bush" "news" media.

Invasion -- Occupation -- Subjugation

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:45 AM
Response to Original message
14. Why The HELL is MG Miller now In charge of ALL Iraq prisons?!?
This is just too outrageous. From Taguba's report it sounds like he WANTED these people to do these things. He visited the prison in August through Sept. from GITMO and made these recommendations to interrogate. Here is Taguba's remarks on Miller....

IO COMMENTS ON MG MILLERS ASSESSMENT

1. (S/NF) MG Millers team recognized that they were using JTF-GTMO operational procedures and interrogation authorities as baselines for its observations and recommendations. There is a strong argument that the intelligence value of detainees held at JTF-Guantanamo (GTMO) is different than that of the detainees/internees held at Abu Ghraib (BCCF) and other detention facilities in Iraq. Currently, there are a large number of Iraqi criminals held at Abu Ghraib (BCCF). These are not believed to be international terrorists or members of Al Qaida, Anser Al Islam, Taliban, and other international terrorist organizations. (ANNEX 20)

2. (S/NF) The recommendations of MG Millers team that the guard force be actively engaged in setting the conditions for successful exploitation of the internees would appear to be in conflict with the recommendations of MG Ryders Team and AR 190-8 that military police do not participate in military intelligence supervised interrogation sessions. The Ryder Report concluded that the OEF template whereby military police actively set the favorable conditions for subsequent interviews runs counter to the smooth operation of a detention facility. (ANNEX 20)



http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4894001

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
starroute Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #14
35. Seymour Hersh emphasizing this very point
From an interview with Bill O'Reilly quoted at http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/20...

HERSH: No, look, I don't want to ruin your evening, but the fact of the matter is {Taguba's} was the third investigation. There had been two other investigations.

One of them was done by a major general who was involved in Guantanamo, General Miller. And it's very classified, but I can tell you that he was recommending exactly doing the kind of things that happened in that prison, basically. He wanted to cut the lines. He wanted to put the military intelligence in control of the prison.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #35
50. Thank God Seymour is on this....
and thank you for posting this starroute. I was begining to think I was losing my mind seeing something no one else did. I can't believe no one has noticed this in congress. They should be asking just what the hell he is doing back in Iraq and IN Charge!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #35
54. Thanks for the link! it was good
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:51 AM
Response to Original message
15. "They beat our heads on the walls and doors."
The former Republican Guard soldier from Nasiriyah said his jaw was broken so badly that even six months later he is unable to eat properly. He estimated that during a two-hour period he received 50 blows.

...

It's the sexual abuse that draws the attention. That's the most sensational. In fact, it's so sensational, the right says the torture is like something out of a Madonna show. But there's all this banal violence, not as well documented with photographs, that's also awful, and still scarring people.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:56 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. This is why the ICRC and Amnesty Interntional
Edited on Thu May-06-04 07:57 AM by DoYouEverWonder
must have access to the prisons right NOW!

They must be allowed to go in there with cameras and they must be allowed to take pictures of the prisoners, NOW. Not next month, or next week or even tomorrow. NOW!

Everyday that we lose, is another day we lose valuable evidence.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 08:17 AM
Response to Original message
18. A hug to all Americans who have shame
Repeat the mantra:

"America is not evil, this administration is"
"America is not evil, this administration is"
"America is not evil, this administration is"
"America is not evil, this administration is"
"America is not evil, this administration is"
"America is not evil, this administration is"
"America is not evil, this administration is"

:hug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 08:20 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. Thanks for the hug.
I needed that.

Now, let's get those evil Bush Loyalists out of the White House!!!

:bounce:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 08:21 AM
Response to Reply #18
21. second that
Edited on Thu May-06-04 08:22 AM by Minstrel Boy
Never forgetting who the real victims are, I do pity Americans of conscience. It must be a terrible burden.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
gate of the sun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #18
29. I am ashamed
I am sickened and furious. To be associated with this kind of brutality.....for us to lie and go to war and then applaud the ousting of Saddam and then to turn around and act like he supposedly did. GW has shamed us all.

If I had the money I'd be out of here, I no longer wish to be a part of this country.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TroglodyteScholar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #18
33. I like the mantra, but...
...while America may not be evil, we did allow these zealots to take power. See my sig....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #18
38. Thanks. I needed that. My husband needs that.
I think I posted elsewhere here the other day - earlier this week, he said this was the first time in his life that he's ever actually been ashamed to be an American. My guy is completely nauseated by what's happened. Sometimes when he's been watching the news in the bedroom or his home-office, he sticks his head out into the hall and hollers to me about the latest abomination he's heard or seen and how disgusted/awful/horrendous it is. Usually it's "Did you just hear THAT?" or "...well NOW they're saying..." Or he'll come up to me when the kids are here and mumble under his breath about something he just heard or watched or read.

He started out more or less on the fence but leaning toward support for the war. He never accompanied me to any of the war protests around town, but was supportive that I went off and did it, and never objected. While he wavered a little, especially when I'd argue with him, he was REALLY taken in by Colin Powell's little dog-n-pony show at the UN last year. He was very serious about it and said he was totally convinced. All this crap about WMDs and then eventually - the "isn't it better, though, that we got rid of Saddam" line. But eventually, that shriveled up and died, fortunately. He started seeing through things as clearly as I did.

My guy is VERY open to considering all points of view. Sometimes too much so, in the not-too-distant past. Like, he was even willing, briefly, to give bush a chance, immediately after the stolen election, while I was just so utterly hardened against him I never was willing to go that far. He tunes into the Pox network to see how the enemy thinks. But at least in the beginning, when he did that, I think he spent too much time giving them a "fair hearing" and I could see, at times, how viewing Pox had affected some of his critical thinking. I'd refute whatever argument it was, with what I'd found out on the net (mostly from HERE), but it didn't seem to hold water enough to counter-act it. But then, Geraldo Rivera started acting like a jerk again, and while he gave away military secrets and troop movement plans and had no punitive measures, while Peter Arnett gets reamed a new one for far less of an offense, my husband began to wake up. And then he'd wake up some more. And then, he'd wake up even more.

He is one of those who believes that you need to know what the enemy is up to and what he/she is thinking, and I can understand that - TO A POINT. And we've had many arguments in the past few years about this - he's accused me in the past of being too biased the other way, and closed and rigid in my thinking, suppressing his right to think and to consider all points of view, even though I'd argue with him about how utterly wrong, distorted, and biased the Pox point of view is. I'd maintain that I refuse to watch Pox, and add to their numbers, the same way as I refused to buy or in any way subsidize any of the books by the Watergate felons during that era - remember - "don't buy books by crooks?"

But he's long since come completely around. And by now, to hear him say he's actually ashamed, for the first time in his life, to be an American, well, he's come a VERY long way. He's actually become rather disgusted and sometimes even discouraged by what he's seeing, and now he sees everything through the filter of suspicion. His days of giving the bushies the benefit of the doubt are LONG gone.

I'm glad. But I must admit I'm also a little sad to see his version of "the death of innocence." I can understand how one WANTS to believe in one's government and one's leadership. That's probably the predicament most Americans are in. But most Americans probably live in a universe where both spouses or partners or whatevers just watch Pox or even CNN or whatever, without somebody else in the house nagging them that it's a bunch of bogus crap. He sometimes goes and chats with some of the guys at the construction site next door (especially when the lunch truck comes around), and one of them yesterday said - "wow, man, how do you know all this stuff?" Most people just DON'T pay attention. Or don't think there's much reason to. But this regime has totally lost my husband. Now, when Colin Powell appears on TV, my guy just shakes his head and mumbles something about - "you're still kidding yourself, Colin."

Dear God, help us all! Maybe God is. As I've watched my husband turn completely (as I felt he would, eventually, since he's never been one to glue the rose-colored glasses on his face) and seen my elderly mom's elderly boyfriend - a staunch republican - speak of being disgusted (and during primary season, growing increasingly interested in John Edwards), I really do start to have a little more faith that the tide in general may be turning. I hope it's true.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
starroute Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #18
41. Americans may not be evil, but America is steeped in violence
I remember reading articles back in college that raised the question of why the Germans and Japanese were able to commit atrocities during World War II that went against their own civilized norms and found the explanation in cultural factors like authoritarianism, abusive child-rearing practices, and a pervasive climate of bullying.

That same willingness to abuse the weak is deeply built into America today. (Think about the roots of Columbine, for starters.) The invasion of Iraq was premised on the assumption that the best way to deal with the world is to get other countries to fear us. The massacre at Fallujah was based on the same premise -- that it is better for us to be feared than to be loved, respected, or admired.

Look around you! Look at what we watch on tv. Look at our sports. Read our popular fiction. Think about how the heroes are presented in all of those. We are a culture of bullies whose greatest term of praise is "that kicks ass."

Abu Ghraib is us.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 08:21 AM
Response to Original message
20. It appears Mr. Abd's life is ruined....
<Hayder Sabbar Abd, meanwhile, is preparing to go home to Nasiriyah, having been assured by US military officials in Baghdad that their investigations will be exhaustive and that those involved in abusing him and his friends will be punished. He said that while he will go home to see his family, his shame will not allow him to stay.>

Just how many other lives are ruined because of this? I am so ashamed to be an American....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 08:23 AM
Response to Original message
22. sadistic fucks
I live in MD, and their families have been on the news trying to pass the buck to the people in charge...

"Oh!! Without the proper training, I had no idea you couldn't treat people inhumanely!!"
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 08:26 AM
Response to Reply #22
23. Memo to the weasels: Nuremberg settled THAT 58 years ago. (nt)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #22
39. Yeah. Right. Well, it starts from the top -
and let's all remember that - AT the top sits a schmuck who took great delight, as a youngster, in putting firecrackers into frogs and enjoying what happened when they exploded. Sometimes you just DON'T NEED proper training to shove your conscience to the side and let your baser self run amok. All you need is just a little encouragement from another schmuck, and/or the knowledge that nobody's watching right now...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 08:30 AM
Response to Original message
24. CALL TO ACTION: Allow cameras into Abu Ghraib Prison Now!
This is important. We must demand that the ICRC, the UN and Amnesty International be allowed access to Abu Ghraib, NOW. TODAY!

They must be allowed to go in there with cameras and they must be allowed to take pictures of the prisoners, NOW. Not next month, or next week or even tomorrow. NOW!

Everyday that we lose, is another day we lose valuable evidence. There are way too many reports of prisoners being severely beaten and even killed. In any brutality case, about the only way to prove it in a US court of law, is if you have pictures. And the pictures must be taken inside the prison in order to prove that that was were the brutality was inflicted.

The reason this is so urgent is that bruises fade, prisoners can be moved, the worst cases are being hidden right now.

Please write your reps and the media and demand that they send in cameras? Thanks!

http://www.house.gov/writerep /

http://www.caan.org/letterto.html


PS: If anyone has Calimary's list handy, please post it here. Thanks again.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lumpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #24
45. Some of the prisoners have been released
in a lame attempt to cover up the conditions at Abu ghraib. Can only hope reporters can get to those released prisoners to get their stories. This corrupt administration should be indicted for the fact that these conditions have existed as well as invading Iraq under false accusations, the result being the destruction, killing, humiliation and torture of the Iraqi people.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DoveTurnedHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:15 AM
Response to Original message
25. This Is Fucking SICK
Pte England is Mr Graner's fiance and is reportedly pregnant by him.

<...>

Records obtained by The Independent reveal that this is not the first time that Specialist Graner has been involved in abuse allegations. His ex-wife obtained three separate "temporary protection of abuse" orders from a judge in their home town in Pennsylvania.


:grr:

:mad:

:grr:

:mad:

DTH
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #25
40. Great. Sounds like they deserve each other.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bunny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:40 AM
Response to Original message
27. They rode a 70 year old woman like a donkey?
What in God's name possesses people to do this to an old woman? I'm simply sick about this. I can't discuss this any further. It's all too much.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KansDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #27
36. Yeah, I mean, doesn't that break a Commandment?
Something about "respecting the parents?"
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DulceDecorum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:50 AM
Response to Original message
28. Support your troops
http://www.supportyourtroops.us /

This is exactly what happened in Somalia.
Like father, like son.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #28
30. We better
because Bu$h & Co sure doesn't.

A lot of these kid's coming back are going to be physically and mentally damaged for life. They will need all the help we can give them.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Politicub Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 10:19 AM
Response to Original message
32. Without the leaked photos
We would have never learned about this atrocity. High ups in the Bush administration knew about what was going on, but they chose to do nothing about it. Perhaps Bush himself was aware of the prison torture.

It's clear to me if someone called CBS and asked them to hold the photos that someone knew of this abuse for a long time.

What kind of animals are these people who torture prisoners? All of the sexual humiliation, I've read, is more degrading to Muslims around the world than the outright torture.

Has the PR war been lost by the Bush administration? Is the press finally awakening and telling the truth about the crimes against humanity that are being perpetrated in the name of the U.S.?

The light of truth will chase away the darkness of Bush's lies. The Bush administration will do everything in its power to deflect and create interference so the portrayal of the reality of war gets buried.

I don't believe they will be successful at that, however. These images are too powerful, the narratives of former captives too gripping to be ignored and buried.

What makes it worse is contrasting the treatment by the Iraqis of the American contractor. He got medical care, while the prisoners of the US got put in a big naked pile.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #32
34. But who needed the photos to know that it's all about humiliation/torture?
You don't need to the photos to know that prison abuse is symptomatic and only a small part of a much bigger problem

I wish we could take one big picture of Iraq so that people could get in their heads that the whole thing is rape, torture and humilation.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Gingersnapsback Donating Member (150 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #34
42. Call your Senator or call Donald Trump and tell Rumsfeld "you're fired"
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lumpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #34
46. Thank God for cameras
and video. The military is not without taint. We would never have heard or have seen the shooting of wounded Iraqis lying on the ground deliberately shot in the head by US GIs. We would not have seen the wounded and dead Iraqi people and little kids maimed for life because of Bushco's vicious play for power.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TrogL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #34
58. Because we live in a TV world
Most people do not read - period. They read as little as they can get away with. Hence they do not read newspapers or magazines and would never see pictures contained in them.

CBS splashing this all over the airwaves turned this into an issue.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lumpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 11:08 AM
Response to Original message
44. Paul Wolfowitz
made a tour of Abu Ghraib torture prison. Don't recall the date. There must have been something in the wind for him to make that tour. There is no way to cover up this atrocity but you can be damn sure they've been working on it for some time.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #44
47. Rummie was there last fall, too.
It seemed odd that whenever these fellows drop into Iraq for one of their rare, brief visits, they make a beeline for Abu Ghraib Prison? Then they want to claim that they didn't know what was going on? Yeah, sure.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 03:15 PM
Response to Original message
53. In a Globe and Mail article yesterday, Mr Abd mentioned doctors
and dentists checked the prisoners between rounds of torture. I don't know why this article doesn't mention this feature of his story to the Globe. If true (and I have no reason to think it's not) it would indicate a high level of awareness of the activities going on.

It makes you wonder where the found medical personnel that would assist in such activities?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #53
59. that's an important question
It makes you wonder where the found medical personnel that would assist in such activities?

Unfortunately, the use of doctors in the conduct of torture is not an uncommon phenomenon.

http://www.remember-chile.org.uk/inside/ai84eight.htm

Documentary evidence collected by Amnesty International included formal complaints by the victims submitted to the courts, medical certificates both from independent doctors and from the official Institute of Forensic Medicine in Santiago, and reports from autopsies of people who died allegedly as a result of injuries sustained during torture. One of the more disturbing findings in the report was that medically trained personnel - probably doctors - had taken part in the torture of detainees.
http://www.ai-aktionsnetz-heilberufe.de/docs/texte/text...

In 1986, former military doctor and torturer Dr. Amilcar Lobo reported in the Brazilian press how he had become a part of the system of state-sanctioned torture and that he had actively participated in it.

During the military dictatorship in Argentina between, 1976 and 1983, a number of doctors were actively involved in torture. Since many of the victims were murdered, and many more had their eyes blindfolded during the doctors' presence to prevent later identification, neither the total number nor the identity of most doctors has been ascertained to this day. In contrast, police physician Dr. Jorge Antonio Berges was sentenced to six years imprisonment in December 1986 for his active participation in torture.

Towards the end of the military regime in Uruguay, Dr. Gregorio Martirena, together with his colleague Dr. Hugo Sacchi, who had been tortured himself, began to compile a detailed documentation of the role of military physicians during the dictatorship. In Uruguay, as in many other countries, those responsible for human rights violations passed amnesty laws preventing their legal prosecution before the military government toppled. However, the commitment of Uruguayan doctors led to the military physicians Dr. Eduardo Saiz Pedrini, Dr. Nelson Fornos Vera, Dr. Vladimir Bracco, Dr. Hugo Díaz Agrelo, and Dr. Nelson Marabotto being ordered to appear before the National Uruguayan Commission for Medical Ethics, following an investigation into their actions. They were found guilty of serious violations of medical ethics and expelled from the professional medical associations.

I spent years working with torture victims. The depressing similarity of their tales is striking. If doctors were involved in the abuses committed by the US and UK military, it is just one more bit of evidence of the banality of evil. The bad guys really are all just the same, if you put a bag over *their* head.

.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 05:26 PM
Response to Original message
55. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #55
56. Would you mind
removing that photo from this thread? I would appreciate it.

Thanks and welcome to DU.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-06-04 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #55
57. that photoshop is not in anyway funny
this was torture not twister....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Aug 28th 2014, 04:41 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Latest Breaking News Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC