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Bosonic Donating Member (774 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 04:31 PM
Original message
Gingrich calls Palestinians an "invented" people
Source: Reuters

Republican presidential candidate Newt Gingrich thrust himself into controversy on Friday by declaring that the Palestinians are an "invented" people who want to destroy Israel.

The former speaker of the U.S. House of Representatives predictably sided with Israel in its decades-old dispute with the Palestinians but took it a step further in an interview with the Jewish Channel.

The cable station posted online its interview with Gingrich, who has risen to the top of Republican polls with voting to start early next year to pick a nominee to challenge Democratic President Barack Obama in the November 2012 election.

Gingrich differed with official U.S. policy that respects the Palestinians as a people deserving of their own state based on negotiations with Israel.

Read more: http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/12/09/us-usa-campai...
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DFab420 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 04:33 PM
Response to Original message
1. It's funny, I always thought all countries were "invented" I mean it's not like America was around
200 years ago....sooooooooo...

fucking Newt...
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ChairmanAgnostic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #1
9. sure it was, why else would Jesus be american?
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coalition_unwilling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #9
54. As the late Repuke Senator Jesse Helms is reported to have said, "If English
was good enough for Jesus, it should be good enough for the rest of us."
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Ter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #1
17. America wasn't around in 1811?
:silly:
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AlbertCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #1
35. It's funny, I always thought all countries were "invented"
All religious affiliations too...

Hindu, Christian, Jew, Muslim.... all invented.
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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 09:55 AM
Response to Reply #1
53. wait, didn't Gawd create 'Merika?
In His image or something?

;)
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ChairmanAgnostic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #53
59. no, I think he 'blissed' it, or sumtin. I dont know all da words
but I think its blist or blissed. Blitz? Schlitz? Yeah, that's the ticket!
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24601 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-11 08:57 AM
Response to Reply #1
73. So at the core, you agree with Gingrich that they were invented
and then you continue on - it's not real clear - are you saying you had sex with him or that you will be fucking him? What time frame was that was he married at the time? Or are you saying somebody else was fucking Newt? For the record, I have never fucked Newt and am not looking to do so.
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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 04:35 PM
Response to Original message
2. I was thinking we needed to do something to spark terrorist recruitment
Way to go old boy.
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6000eliot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 04:43 PM
Response to Original message
3. And this moron is supposed to be the intellectual of the Republican party?
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Pachamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #3
14. No, he is a "Historian"...
:eyes:
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Little Tich Donating Member (187 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #14
32. Yes, he is a historian of sorts. I'm currently reading his book about George Washington,
"To Try Men's Souls: A Novel of George Washington and the Fight for American Freedom". It's one of those patriotic historical biographies that some people are so fond of. It's actually not a bad read, although the characters are a little wooden. For some reason, I hear fifes and drums everytime I read the book.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-11 03:43 AM
Response to Reply #32
78. I cannot imagine anything by Newtie
being historically accurate. He has such a twisted notion of the United States of America.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #3
15. Yes, he is.
Scary, isn't it?
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YvonneCa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #3
65. Aren't Republicans an 'invented people'...
...??? :7
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Dont call me Shirley Donating Member (396 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 04:47 PM
Response to Original message
4. Newty's mind is a self-inflicted invention.
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sarcasmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 04:47 PM
Response to Original message
5. Newt is the smart one, funny stuff.
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tularetom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 04:50 PM
Response to Original message
6. As opposed to the completely uninvented nation of Israel?
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rocktivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 05:00 PM
Response to Original message
7. Rocktivity calls Gingrich a "self-invented" person
:eyes:
rocktivity
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cpwm17 Donating Member (383 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 05:01 PM
Response to Original message
8. Gingrich denies the Palestinians' right to exist
And they have lived in Palestine much longer than whites have lived in the Americas.

Negotiations with Israel will never get the Palestinians anywhere - they're a fraud. Gingrich is the most odious kind of racist there is.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 05:12 PM
Response to Original message
10. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
provis99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 05:13 PM
Response to Original message
11. and Americans are an ancient, naturally existing people?
Americans are the most self-invented people there are; in fact, we brag about that.
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windowpilot Donating Member (70 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 05:14 PM
Response to Original message
12. Just in time for x-mas
Slimy newt.
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Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 05:20 PM
Response to Original message
13. OT, but- Republicans are an "invented" people who want to destroy America.
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Turbineguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 06:08 PM
Response to Original message
16. Get it here, folks... Step right up.
Edited on Fri Dec-09-11 06:09 PM by Turbineguy
Get your daily insult right here at the Gingrich booth! Every day, something new. And best of all, it's free! (Until you elect me anyway.)
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 01:07 AM
Response to Reply #16
45. Gawd, what an idiot. Lincoln must be spinning in his grave
at this clown crew.
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 06:31 PM
Response to Original message
18. 5th century bc was the first designation of use of Palestine but...
the people have inhabited this area before the 5th century bc.

this guy could be the next president of the usa
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Igel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #18
58. Reaching deep into history isn't a good thing.
The "Germans" of today aren't the Germanae of Tacitus, nor are the Ukrainians the Rus'.

Genetics/ethnicity and culture are two entirely different things. Most British are largely Celts, but there's a big difference between those that Boadicea led and the Saxons in the Saxon kingdoms, the Brits under Henry VIII, and the modern British. We tend to know this to be true, then we turn around and tell somebody they should learn "their" language or "their" culture based entirely on their race or ethnicity.

Same with the French. Do you want to claim that people in Marseilles are actually Franks? No? Or perhaps because my ancestors are Gaelic they have some claim on Lithuanian land? No? I hear that kind of foolishness, too. Usually when there's some sort of political belief or claim to power and self-image that we think needs defending.

What Gingrish said about the Palestinians is largely true, in a few different ways. In the 1800s there was no real Palestinian ethnicity in any significant sense. There were regional features that criss-crossed or covered what's now considered "Palestinian", but usually extended far outside of this area (or covered only a small portion of the area). Mostly they were just Arabs--not just as identified by Westerners, but by themselves and their self-appointed spokesfolk. *This* was the distinction that was important, Arab vs Turk, Arab vs. European, Muslim vs. Christian; ethnogenesis, how ethnicities are produced, is all about distinctions and what's important in self-grouping and excluding others. There were people in Palestine but there were Palestinians only in the sense that there were people living in an area that could be called "Palestine".

Another poster says there's no American "ethnicity" (by which he mostly means "culture") and gets it wrong in pointing out sub-groupings in the US. There is a fairly distinctive American culture (not shared by all Americans, to be sure, but by most, still), but for him what mattered was the differences inside the US. Take a Minnesotan, Oregonian, Marylander, and Texan and put them all in China for a month and they'd discover their similarities. Suddenly US/Chinese (of whatever variety) would matter a lot more than the internal differences. In fact, until you're confronted with an "Other" there's not much point in worrying about the larger grouping. Early Americans--in the sense "American citizens"--considered themselves British or German. Only after there was an opposition did the differences become more important than the commonalities. (Then, in WWI and II, commonalities came to the fore again.)

One problem is grouping the "Palestinians" geographically (since most cultures are still rooted in areal features). This means putting borders on "Palestine." Is it the Ottoman or British or Roman definition? Perhaps the post-1948 or 1967 definition? It matters because that delimits the people that we tend to think of (externally) as having a shared set of values and traditions.

Some of the people had genes that had been in the area for millennia. Others were Circassians that the Ottomans deported in the 1800s when they were uppity. Some were the descendants of Arab migrants or invaders--migrants first noted a little "BCE", the real invasion force happening in the 7th century (with waves of Bedouin to follow, as they resettled into areas under what amounted to an Arab empire). More than a few are probably the descendants of Islamized Christianized Hellenized Jews, in deep denial over their ancestry. Their clan affiliation--an Arab import, to a large extent, based on older Arab clans--was paramount. "Palestinian" didn't matter--it wasn't the important distinction.

It mattered when more Jews settled in the area. Then there was an important distinction to be made. But even now there are not just more Palestinians in the diaspora than in Palestine (post-1967 borders), but in Jordan. Those in Jordan have, for the most part, their roots there--their families and clans didn't settle there after 1947, but before that. They share a common set of dialectal features and cultural values, have clan ties, etc., etc. But the "Palestinian people" was partly formed in contrast to the Jews that were settling in the area after 1890 and much more strongly formed in contrast to Israel after 1967. Even in the '70s in Jordan there was a strong contrast between the Arabian ruling group and the Palestinian substratum in the western part of the country.

The problem is that Gingrich's dictum is perceived not as dealing with ethnogenesis, or as even involving ethnogenesis, but as the denial of a political claim for land and power rooted in claims of being indigenous. If the Palestinian people aren't ancient--with some sort of lineal descent from millennia ago--then how can they justify dominant access not just to the land but to the "holy places" and cultural relicts? Since religion is part of culture, it only makes sense that I've heard claims that the original inhabitants were actually Muslim (not in the Muhammed sense, but close enough). That the Jews were never there; or were a small number that were driven out--so Jesus was a Muslim Palestinian. That the customs have been the same for the last few thousand years. Even that Aramaic is Arabic (that's a lark)--even as it's denied that some of the "hard words" in the Qur'aan are actually Aramaic borrowings? The claims are motivated by ethnic hatred and claims on land and power.

There's strong motivation to exaggerate the claims and strong motivation to react very forcefully when the weakness of the claims are threatened by even off-hand comments. After all, it's sometimes easier to win a battle by denying the enemy the chance to fight you than to actually engage in a battle, even if it's just a battle of wits.

The Palestinian people don't need their inflated, frequently ludicrous and embarrassing claims to justify a claim on land and self-determination. They also don't need people trying to justify those claims that are ludicrous and embarrassing.
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coalition_unwilling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #58
61. Hogwash. The Palestinians are no more an 'invented' people than the Israelis,
Edited on Sat Dec-10-11 10:58 AM by coalition_unwilling
Americans, or even Mexicans are.

What Gingrich says is therefore largely false, not true. If you have not yet done so, you need to read his comments in full for a sense of just houw outrageiously false they are.
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Archae Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 06:40 PM
Response to Original message
19. Aren't Palestinians originally fro the area now called Syria?
I doubt they are descendants of the original Caananites.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #19
36. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #19
37. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
coalition_unwilling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #19
55. Hunh? I don't even know where to start. - n/t
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #19
66. No. Try researching actual history, not religious myths.
NT!

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FreeBillClinton Donating Member (222 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 06:53 PM
Response to Original message
20. So does that mean native Americans are invented too?
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 07:03 PM
Response to Original message
21. And we aren't? Hell, IMO there is no such thing as an "American" ethnicity.
Edited on Fri Dec-09-11 07:06 PM by Odin2005
Our ethnicities are our regional cultures. I, a Minnesotan, have far more in common culturally with somebody from Massachusetts than I do somebody from the Appalachia, we are different cultures. Why? it all depends on which Europeans settled first, Minnesota's first white settlers were from New England, thus we are part of the Yankee culture.
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FarLeftFist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 07:04 PM
Response to Original message
22. Uh, wasn't Israel invented in 1948?
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PSPS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. Yes. In fact, its 'invention' cost the Palestinians their land.
Yes, Newt is "the intellectual" who has never seen a map from 1945.
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DissedByBush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #24
38. The Europeans were drawing the maps
And at one time the British Mandate of Palestine included Jordan.

Tell the Jordanians they need to give up their country. They're not going to like that since they crushed the Palestinians in Jordan back in the 60s in order to keep their rule.

Oh, I thought only the Israelis did that.

I like the map that had one contiguous Jewish state just about where the current boundaries are including the lands Israel fairly won while fighting off the Arab invasions.
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cpwm17 Donating Member (383 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. Winning lands by military conquest
Now that should give you a lot of support on a liberal website.

You made some major logical errors throughout your post.
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DissedByBush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #40
42. Not by conquest
By defense. They were amassing all around Israel's borders, planning to attack (there is hard evidence of this).

IMHO, if a country attacks you and you repel them, then any land you gain during that is rightfully yours. Israel did not lay claim to any Egyptian territory from the initial preemptive air raid that took out the Egyptian bombers.

All Israel did is prevent the conquest of their entire country by the amassed armies of the neighboring Arab states, supported by the arms and troops from other Arab states.

The Palestinian refugees figured they'd go to Syria and Jordan and wait a few months for the Arabs to wipe Israel off the face of the Earth, then they could return.

They didn't count on Israel winning. The Syrians and Jordanians didn't either, and they do not like the Palestinians in their countries.

I'm not saying this as an Israeli loyalist. The deliberate attack on the USS Liberty in that war was unforgivable, they are not innocents by a long shot in this and other matters.

But I would come to an agreement with you: How about all refugees from this whole Arab/Israeli mess just get to go home, and the UN enforces that they receive full and equal rights and are not persecuted?

Do you think that is just and fair?
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cpwm17 Donating Member (383 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 05:49 AM
Response to Reply #42
47. The Arab armies didn't start the war
The Zionist started the war by ethnically cleansing the Arabs. That is why the Palestinians were in the neighboring countries. They didn't leave voluntarily - that's ridiculous.

Almost all of the fighting occurred in the territory that was designated for the Palestinians; so if you claim that the UN (illegal) partition had any legitimacy, then you must accept that it was the Zionists that attacked Palestine.
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hack89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 07:54 AM
Response to Reply #47
49. No - the Arab countries invaded first
and they invaded Israeli territory. The Arabs lost all that territory because they got their asses kicked.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_...
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The Stranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-11 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #49
77. PAGING NEWT . . . WE HAVE ONE HERE FOR YA!
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coalition_unwilling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #42
56. Are you denying that Israel forcibly expelled many indigenous
Edited on Sat Dec-10-11 10:13 AM by coalition_unwilling
people from their ancestral lands? If so, you are out of step with current historical scholarship. In other words, there is a broad general consensus among even historians who support Israel's right to exist that Israel ethnically cleansed territories it conquered in 1947-48.

Your post makes it sound as if all the indigenous folk just voluntarily got up and left because they figured Israel would 'lose' and they could return soon thereafter. Current historical scholarship pretty definitively contradicts you and demonstrates that much of the exodus of indigenous people was far from any common-sense use of the term "voluntary."

Not sure I need to add citations for this. Just let me know if you would like a bibliography.
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DissedByBush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #56
63. So do you support the return of all refugees?
Let them come back, full rights guaranteed? No persecution?
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coalition_unwilling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #63
64. I support a theoretical 'right of return' to be secured by a
Edited on Sat Dec-10-11 12:57 PM by coalition_unwilling
'land for peace' swap. The reason I say a 'theoretical right of return' is that, in many cases, returning to ancestral lands may not be practical or in the best interests of the indigenous folks affected for any number of reasons. Thus, that 'right of return' can be otherwise compensated by reparations, i.e. 'land for peace.'
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DissedByBush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #64
70. Great idea
Do remember that over 800,000 Jews were kicked out of Muslim lands, or persecuted so much that they had to leave, after Israel was founded.

They and their descendents qualify for the program you describe.

Expect a quarter million to go back to Morocco, and over 100,000 to go to Iraq, plus descendants.

Do you still believe in the right of return?
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coalition_unwilling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #70
71. Wow, what is it with the set-ups, drive bys and 'gotcha' moments here lately? The 'right
Edited on Sat Dec-10-11 10:58 PM by coalition_unwilling
of return' is a trope used to describe one negotiating position taken by Palestinians over the past half century, not an abstract right belonging to Jews displaced from Morocco or Iraq.

If you're trying to suggest that displaced Palestinians' right of return is only valid if Jews' right of return is also valid, then you are the only person making such a claim to the best of my knowledge. In other words, many people dispute the Palestinians' right of return and many like myself believe it exists. But, aside from you, no one I know says the Palestinians only qualify for a right of return if displaced Jews also qualify for the same. By so doing, your are stretching ingenuity to its limits and making reasoned debate about the actual world we inhabit well nigh impossible.

I won't put you on Ignore for it, but really, don't you have anything better to do with your time?
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DissedByBush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-11 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #71
74. It's a test for bias, you failed n/t
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coalition_unwilling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-11 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #74
75. Oh well, you failed my test for decency and are now on
my Ignore list. Hope I never have to see you or read any of your BS on DU3.
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hack89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 07:55 AM
Response to Reply #24
50. Jordon owned the West Bank from 48 to 67
did they steal it from the Palestinians?
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shanti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. exactly
that's one thing repukes have on dems, they are masters at projection. grinch needs his ass kicked.
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #22
28. Right! nt
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Crabby Appleton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #22
57. History didn't begin in 1948
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coalition_unwilling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #57
60. If you have not already done so, I heartily recommend you read Joseph
Heller's 'God Knows." It will have you rolling on the floor in hysterical laughter. And the sections about Uriah and Bathsheeba are pretty friggin' awesome too.
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classysassy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 07:12 PM
Response to Original message
23. Evil,hateful politicians seeking the approval of Israel.
Remove money from politics and lets have fair elections.
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Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 07:40 PM
Response to Original message
26. now wouldn't he make a great representative for America on the world stage?
Edited on Fri Dec-09-11 07:41 PM by Douglas Carpenter
He would make George W. Bush look like Abraham Lincoln.
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pam4water Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 07:52 PM
Response to Original message
27. Scratches head? huh?
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ThoughtCriminal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 08:05 PM
Response to Original message
29. Did he really say that?
Without using his favorite word?

I would expect him to say " Fundamentally, Palestinians are fundamentally an "invented" people who want to fundamentally destroy Israel."
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onehandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 08:08 PM
Response to Original message
30. Freak. nt
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DRoseDARs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 08:30 PM
Response to Original message
31. Technically the name, yes... in the 5th century BCE by Greeks.
Edited on Fri Dec-09-11 08:31 PM by DRoseDARs
Modern "Palestinians" developed as a concept of a distinct people in the 1830s and as the Middle East was being carved into artificial nations before World War One. See, it's topics like this where sound bites blithely ignoring the full breadth and width of Human history do not an in-depth discussion make.
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unkachuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 08:52 PM
Response to Original message
33. '...Palestinians are an "invented" people...'
....oh that's rich, coming from a right-wing fascist pretending to be a democrat....

'...who want to destroy Israel.'

....c'mon Oldt, your ass is showing....I may wish to "destroy" the Moon, but it's not going to happen....

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scentopine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 09:03 PM
Response to Original message
34. Say what you want, but he's making waves and in the news...
Edited on Fri Dec-09-11 09:06 PM by scentopine
gaining ground. Democrats could easily choke him on his own words - but they are oddly silent, allowing this man's slurry of stupidity to go unanswered.

That's how the rightwing gains ground. The new democrats are too weak and unprincipled to mount a full scale assault(*) for fear they may offend their republican base.

By compulsive cheek turning and appeasment, the leader of the democratic party is enabling jowly monsters like this blowhard to take center stage.


(*) on edit - however, the new democrats do reserve whatever pathetic muster they have for scolding liberals.
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totodeinhere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 07:24 AM
Response to Reply #34
48. I think that many Democrats are silent about him because they want to sit back
and give him all the rope he needs to hang himself. If he actually got the nomination, which I still doubt will happen, there will be plenty of time to get him then.
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scentopine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #48
52. The problem is the lizard boy gains credibility and democrats move more to the right...
to meet the extremists "in the middle". In fact - that IS the problem. The far right wing is now mainstream and democrats are not challenging this because they want to stay just a millimeter to the left of whereever the extreme right wing is at the time. So we have Obama as a Reagan republican - stuffing the executive office to the gills with Wall Street CEOs and operatives.

I lose more and more respect for democratic leadership with each passing year that living in this country becomes more and more like govt. enforced servitude to the rich.

We don't have politicians, we have chambermaids for the rich.

Democrats are letting the right wing in both parties change what it means to be an American. It now means unrestrained violence, greed, torture, surveillance, drones, bank fraud, criminal CEOs. labor exploitation in Asia, police state, on and on.

Democrats are not fighting this - they are enabling it by staying silent except for blowing hot air rhetoric at election time.

After which they are back on their knees in front of wall street and telling liberals who complain to shut the fuck up.

So, democrats are quietly enabling the right wing to dominate politcal direction in the nation. Things are going to get much worse before they get better. Obama isn't helping, he's enabling the enemy.
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yellowcanine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 10:20 PM
Response to Original message
39. Newt Gingrich is an "invented" person. No real person could be that stupid.
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SoapBox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 11:10 PM
Response to Original message
41. Well...WTF?
What the hell? I cannot believe the idiots in the GOPBagger Clown Car...man, idiots.
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StarsInHerHair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 12:08 AM
Response to Original message
43. moron never looked at a map
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 01:06 AM
Response to Original message
44. rv calls newt half a man
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DCKit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 04:36 AM
Response to Original message
46. As a self-identified human being, I find that incredibly offensive. nt
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Hotler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 08:42 AM
Response to Original message
51. Newt is a shit stain. eom.
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plumbob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 11:34 AM
Response to Original message
62. Safe to assume Newt has a final solution in mind for the Palestinians,
then, since Israel is everything, and Palestinians are nothing.
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Paladin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 03:16 PM
Response to Original message
67. Keep Up The Good Work, Newt. Jeez, How Lucky Can Dems Get? (n/t)
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 05:15 PM
Response to Original message
68. name the US pol who got in trouble for supporting Israel too extremely
I couldn't think of one either.
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closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 06:20 PM
Response to Original message
69. There's something ironically satisfying in his statement.
I don't know what the word is exactly, but I do recall that American muslims generally voted for Bush in 2004, since they are more likely to be Republican.

They can see here where that support will get them. I hope this wakes them up and turns them Democratic.
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populistleftist1 Donating Member (35 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-11 03:49 AM
Response to Original message
72. Palestinians == Philistines from the Bible
duh
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ElMuertoMonkey Donating Member (9 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-12-11 05:25 PM
Response to Original message
76. So are the Israelis an "invented people" as well
If the Palestineans are an "invented" people because, quote, "they never had a state, and because they were part of the Ottoman Empire before Israel's creation".

Well, the Jews never had a state, and they were part of numerous European countries before the creation of Israel.

So are the Israelis an "invented people" as well
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