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Ex-cop's uniform an Occupy no-no, Ramsey says

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Chef Eric Donating Member (576 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 05:03 AM
Original message
Ex-cop's uniform an Occupy no-no, Ramsey says
Source: Philadelphia Daily News

A retired city police captain who's been wearing his uniform to Occupy Wall Street was given written notice by Commissioner Charles Ramsey and the Philadelphia Fraternal Order of Police that they do not support his protest attire.

If FOP President John McNesby has his way, the retired captain, Ray Lewis, a 24-year veteran, would be booted from the FOP and lose his retirement benefits. "I champion him for going up there and pleading his case, but he shouldn't have done it in a police uniform," McNesby said. "When he put the freaking uniform on is when he crossed the f----ing line."

Recently, Lewis, who is back in Zuccotti Park in uniform, got separate letters from Ramsey and the FOP. The first told him to cease wearing a uniform; the latter said a motion regarding his conduct had been referred to the FOP's grievance committee for "action."

Lewis said he found the letters "disgusting." "It's purely bullying and intimidation tactics, and I am profoundly disappointed," he said. "You are not going to intimidate me."

Read more: http://www.philly.com/philly/news/20111209_Ex-cop_s_uni...
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lunatica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 06:01 AM
Response to Original message
1. OWS will probably rally around him
I sure would.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 08:02 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. Worked in Poland.
Walesa's action led the dismantling of the USSR.
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jerseyjack Donating Member (369 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 07:01 AM
Response to Original message
2. FPB is a fnon-profit orgainization. How do they decide his pension?
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rpannier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 07:23 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. They don't
Edited on Fri Dec-09-11 07:23 AM by rpannier
I re-read it a few times and he's not saying he will lose his benefits
He's saying if someone left it up to him, he'd take away the benefits.
In the article he (FOP Rep McNesby) admits there is nothing he can do about it.
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olleander Donating Member (26 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #3
20. Police pension funds
Wall Street hedge funds have already depressed public union
pension fund returns (including the funds of police) by at
least 30% over the last decade due to the diversion of 2%
annual management fees and 20% of any annual profits.  You
compound that money and it is amazing how much these greedy
bastards are stealing from working people.  I must say that
union leaders - whose family members often appear on the
employment rolls of certain hedge funds and banks - are
particularly ineffectual in using their investment control to
protect the pensions of their members.  So, outright taking
away a dissenting police retirees pension is nothing more
than the logical next step for these lackeys of Wall Street. 
My advice to police officers - if you want a pension - vote
against the guys who are giving away your future to their
Wall Street cronies. 
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The Wizard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 07:53 AM
Response to Original message
4. He owns the uniform and
he can wear it. He's one of many who knows there's something radically wrong with the radical right that continues to support income disparity.
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rfranklin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 08:07 AM
Response to Original message
6. However, if he wore the uniform to a funeral that would be okay...
which means it should be okay at any public event. Unless there is some law we don't know about. My guess is, there is no law or they would have cited it.
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 08:19 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Good point...
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 08:32 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. A funeral is not a political event
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. All the other cops get to wear theirs.
:think:
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. So what? Not the point. Did he break a law by wearing it to OWS or not?
Edited on Fri Dec-09-11 09:42 AM by No Elephants
That is the point.

Also disagree that the funerals, the way some of them are staged, are not political events. Parades, bagpipes, the whole nine yeard, as if it were a state funeral.

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greiner3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #8
19. "A funeral is not a political event"
Au contraire. How about when the nuts protest military funerals and yell about "God hates fxxs?" Or military funerals in general when Conservatives use this as a political tactic (Bush's decision not to show the corpses as this would 'inflame' his stance in the Middle East). I'm sure there are more instances of when funerals can be and are political. These examples are from the US. How about political funerals from abroad or are you suggesting this has no bearing on your absolute statement, "A funeral is not a political event"?

In other countries many assassinated members of the opposition parties draws huge crowds of people whose main purpose is to protest against the powers that be. When a despot dies, Mao, Stalin, Lenin, etc..., the party uses the funeral as a backdrop for furthering their political cause.
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mistertrickster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #19
27. Or when the powers-that-be forced us to mourn Reagan . . . nt
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RoccoR5955 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #27
32. I threw a three day bash when Reagan died...
I would be damned if they force ME to mourn that rat bastard who killed my brother!
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24601 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-11 12:10 AM
Response to Reply #32
33. Exactly what Alawaki's brother said recently. n/t
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RoccoR5955 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-11 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #33
36. Did he lose a brother because a president said
that he wouldn't fund AIDS research because it was a gay cancer? I don't think so. I stand by my words, I don't care who the fuck said the same thing, Reagan killed my brother damnit, and I celebrated his death. I only was hoping that it would be as painful as my brother's.
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24601 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-11 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #36
37. Sorry about your brother but Reagan didn't chase him down & murder
him with a Drone's missile.
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RoccoR5955 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-11 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #37
40. He sure did. He wouldn't fund research that would make him better.
In my opinion, that's as good as chasing him down and murdering him!
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-11 02:27 AM
Response to Reply #27
34. That was mourning? I thought we were revising history as we beatified him.
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provis99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #19
30. yes. Try saying a funeral in Northern Ireland isn't a political event.
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brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #8
26. In much the same way that you're not a genuine Democrat n/t
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Shoe Horn Donating Member (54 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #8
28. Yeah, those of us who have worn a uniform remember signing all kinds of papers...
...some of which detail that you may not wear it in support of any political party or actions or something.
Personally, I'd love to get all worked up over this, but I think he should just remove the uniform and wear a T-Shirt or something else indicating he's retired police.

:shrug:


It's his call, obviously.

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quakerboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #8
29. I could be wrong
But I strongly believe I have seen off duty/retired police in uniform used as backdrops and set pieces for many a political campaign.

I am even more certain that I have seen them in TV commercials regarding state ballot issues, thinking of the ones on MMJ and crime, mainly.

and I am 100% sure that I have seen them take the metaphorical uniform of their former positions in online/text political advocacy, making damn sure to sign things John Doe, police chief of small town.
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 08:52 AM
Response to Original message
9. "When he put the freaking uniform on is when he crossed the f----ing line."
It's all about crossing lines.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 09:43 AM
Response to Reply #9
13. What line did he cross? Maybe Ramsay is the one overstepping.
Edited on Fri Dec-09-11 09:46 AM by No Elephants
Obviously, there is no law against this, or Ramsay would be enforcing it instead of resorting to attempted bullying.
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. I'm referring to the protesters protesting. If you don't cross lines you aren't protesting.
as far as the ex-police officer, it might be the same kind of issue with the military, you can wear your uniform to the protests but you can't wear the official insignias or something like that. I'm neither and ex-cop or an vet nor play one on tv.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. Oh, Javaman, I never meant to imply that I thought you were on the wrong side of the issue.
I replied to your post, but my reply was directed, not at you, but toward whoever is reading the thread. Not contradicting you, but supplementing==adding an additional point.
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #16
21. :) ahhh okay.
cheers!
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-11 02:31 AM
Response to Reply #21
35. Cheers to you, too!
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RoccoR5955 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #9
18. Screw the line! The cops crossed the line when
Edited on Fri Dec-09-11 11:49 AM by RoccoR5955
the went and executed an illegal order, of taking away people's first amendment rights!

He was there to uphold those rights, so who's in the wrong. At any rate, he's retired. He should be able to do what he wants in his retirement, as long as it's ethical.

And FOP is just a lobbying organization. They say that they raise money for police pensions. Yeah, less than one percent of the money they get goes to police pensions. At least that's what they are in NY, not sure of what they are in PA.
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #18
25. The FOP is a labor union:
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RoccoR5955 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #25
31. OK my bad. Here in NY it's a lobbying group. But still,
Edited on Sat Dec-10-11 08:18 PM by RoccoR5955
How can his union take away his pension? Isn't it up to his employer?
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tcaudilllg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-11 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #31
39. If he acts against officers' freedom, he has no right to hold his position as head of the union.
Talk about biting the hand... without our support, there would be no FOP.
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Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 09:00 AM
Response to Original message
10. Ray Lewis is wearing his uniform so the NYC cops don't split his skull with an aluminum club
A.K.A. "baton"
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haele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 10:19 AM
Response to Original message
15. Retired police can do whatever they want with their uniform, unlike the military -
While there are laws against impersonating the police doing his or her official duties, in most cities, there's nothing on the books if a retired police officer wants to wear his or her dress uniform regularly to, say, go out and get groceries. No UCMJ or Uniform code to spell out when and where a uniform can be worn.

Haele
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bongbong Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 11:30 AM
Response to Original message
17. Huge irony
"Philadelphia Freedom"
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Bunny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
22. "When he put the freaking uniform on is when he crossed the f----ing line."
Such language in an official statement from the president of a fraternal organization. :thumbsdown: He loses all credibility with me, and I regularly use the F-bomb - I just know when and where it's appropriate.
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DallasNE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
23. Under What Authority Can McNesby
Take away Lewis's retirement benefits? While wrong, I can see where a vote could be taken to boot him from the FOP following a hearing, but McNesby wants to move unilaterally on that as well. Philadelphia needs a new FOP President badly.
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Dawson Leery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
24. For this retirement is lost, but not for beating innocent people.
:wtf:
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tcaudilllg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-11-11 11:08 AM
Response to Original message
38. McNesby is an enemy of freedom.
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