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Holder faces House Republicans over health-care law, ‘Fast and Furious’

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alp227 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-11 01:58 PM
Original message
Holder faces House Republicans over health-care law, ‘Fast and Furious’
Source: WaPo

Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. clashed with congressional Republicans on Thursday over Supreme Court Justice Elena Kagan’s role in evaluating the health-care law and the Justice Department’s “Fast and Furious” gun-trafficking sting.

Under intensive questioning from House Judiciary Committee Chairman Lamar Smith (R-Tex.), Holder reiterated that his department would not provide Congress with more information about Kagan’s health-care related role when she was President Obama’s solicitor general. Republicans are seeking internal e-mails and other documents, arguing that Kagan might have to recuse herself from the court’s decision on the health-care law if she was involved in the legislation.

“My memory is that when we had conversations about the health-care bill, the solicitor general was not present,” said Holder, who added that giving Congress internal materials about a future judicial nominee would raise “separation of powers” questions between the branches of government.

Holder also defended the Justice Department’s handling of the fallout over Phoenix-based Fast and Furious, in which federal agents allowed guns to flow illegally onto U.S. streets and into Mexico. The operation, which resulted in more than 2,000 illegally purchased firearms hitting the streets, is under investigation by congressional Republicans and the Justice Department’s inspector general’s office.

Read more: http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/holder-faces-hou...
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JustAnotherGen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-11 02:04 PM
Response to Original message
1. Fun and games eh?
Yet nothing from House Republicans asking for an investigation into Clarence Thomas? Hmmmm . . .
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yellowcanine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-11 02:15 PM
Response to Original message
2. I will put my money on Holder over those Repuke congress critter clowns any day.
The Congress has no right to any internal emails on the health-care bill. There is no question of illegality so executive privilege applies.

And on "Fast and Furious," while clearly wrongheaded, it is just as clear that this was a followup to a program which started during the Bush presidency, so it is downright hypocritical to pin the blame entirely on the Obama justice dept.
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russspeakeasy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-11 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. Yeah, this is repug bullshit. Holder should be on the spot for
being AWOL while all the financial crimes are being committed. That's is a question the repugs don't want to ask about.
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beevul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-11 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. Theres a difference though.
"And on "Fast and Furious," while clearly wrongheaded, it is just as clear that this was a followup to a program which started during the Bush presidency, so it is downright hypocritical to pin the blame entirely on the Obama justice dept."

The previous operation was called "wide reciever. Under "wide reciever":


ATF attempted to interdict the guns.

ATF attempted to track the guns.

ATF attempted to follow the suspected traffickers to learn who they were dealing with.

ATF informed and coordinated with Mexican authorities about the traffickers or the guns headed their way.

ATF informed and coordinated with their own agents in Mexico.

Where as under "fast and furious":

ATF made no attempt to interdict the guns.

ATF made no attempt to track the guns.

ATF made no attempt to follow the suspected traffickers to learn who they were dealing with.

ATF actually purchased some guns which they apparently transferred to traffickers.

ATF did not inform Mexican authorities about the traffickers or the guns headed their way.

ATF did not inform their own agents in Mexico about the traffickers or the guns.

ATF ordered their agents in Mexico not to disclose analytical information about the surge in guns coming from the Phoenix area.

ATF did not shut down the operation until BPA Brian Terry was killed.

ATF made no arrests in the operation until after BPA Terry’s death.

ATF made no arrests beyond the actual straw purchasers.

Two semi-auto AK-style rifles were recovered at the scene of Agent Terry’s murder. Both of those guns had been sold under ATF supervision by a dealer who had expressed concern about making the sales and suggested that someone – even a federal officer – could be killed if these guns were allowed to enter the black market.

ATF gave strong reassurances that the guns would be interdicted before harm could be done – even though they knew that was not true.

ATF encouraged gun dealers to sell large quantities of guns to suspected gun traffickers even though the gun dealers objected and would not have made the sales on their own.



The two cases are apples and oranges, and would be apples and oranges regardless of what administration they were run under.


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Hoyt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-11 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Some gun dealers might have objected, others were glad to get a fistful of cash.

If the ATF weren't breathing down their neck, gun dealers would be selling even more guns to criminals and proclaiming, "we had no way of knowing why that guy wanted 25 tactical, military type rifles . . . . . .and we didn't give a dang either."

So far 20 traffickers have been indicted under F&F, and more are forthcoming.

So, yes, some serious mistakes were made and some heads should probably roll. But if the ATF weren't involved, gun wheeler dealers would have a weapons trafficking pipeline much larger.

The gun lobby in this country is thrilled at the thought of castrating the ATF and other gun law enforcers. I hope they fail.
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FreeBillClinton Donating Member (222 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-11 03:05 PM
Response to Original message
3. Someone should be fired for "Fast and Furious", I nominate Holder.
The DEA is out of control... Will anyone reign them in? certainly not this administration.

Holder's great I guess if you like busting medical marijuana shops and want bankers and hedge fund managers to get a free ride.

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certainot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-11 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. what i hear, most of those wall st execs were just enjoying the fruits of repub deregulation
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certainot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-11 03:25 PM
Response to Original message
5. totally political shit by republicans that couldn't have been drummed up w/out talk radio monopoly
getting a free speech free ride.

this shit has been going on for 20 years with GOP think tank fed blowhards getting a total free speech free ride as the biggest PC cops and censors-by-threat in the country to turn some molehills into mountains while enabling the GOP and MSM to ignore more important shit.

relative to everything else going on this is pure republican bullshit.
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AnnieBW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-11 10:50 PM
Response to Original message
9. It started under Bush
If I remember correctly, this started under the Bush Administration.
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