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alp227 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-11 01:10 PM
Original message
Push to Ban New York Carriage Horses Gains Steam
Source: NYT

A ride through Central Park in a horse-drawn carriage is one of New York Citys most storied attractions, the rhythmic clip-clop offering a respite from the hustle of everyday life.

But now this old-fashioned industry is facing unprecedented turmoil.

After campaigning for decades, animal rights advocates are gaining support for legislation that would ban the hansom cabs, including endorsements from mayoral candidates and celebrities.

The carriage owners say they are being harassed, but they also acknowledge carrying out a campaign to infiltrate the activist groups and secretly record their strategy sessions.

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/08/nyregion/ny-horse-dra...



Yeah, horse-drawn carriages are very archaic for this time. How about using bicyclists instead? Maybe some strong-bodied people who are unemployed could do that work.
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Vincardog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-11 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
1. I believe that we need MORE jobs for horses not less.
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dtexdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-11 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Be sure to tell the Wall Street 'job creators' that.
It should be easy for them, what with all the horseshit they spew. ;-)
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JustAnotherGen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-11 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
2. Actually
In Times Square/Rockefeller Center etc. etc. there are those 'bike' two seat buggies ;-) for hire!
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dtexdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-11 01:46 PM
Response to Original message
3. More damage wrought by PETAphiles.
It's time to give "animal rights" nutcases their walking papers -- and no carriage rides to relieve that walking. ;-)
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lbrtbell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #3
17. These horses are kept in tiny "stables" soiled with feces
This isn't being a "nut case", it's a simple matter of wanting horses to be treated properly. They never get to run free, their legs cramp because of the tight quarters they're kept in, so they don't get enough rest to do their daytime work.

Two horses have collapsed in Manhattan in just the past two weeks. This isn't acceptable.

If you had actually watched any educational videos about this issue, you might have an informed opinion.

But you didn't, and you don't.
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NickB79 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #17
22. Legs cramping due to tight quarters? Horses sleep standing up
The last thing you want to see is a horse lying down, because that usually signifies that they are ill.
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TheBarnRules Donating Member (3 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #22
27. Legs cramping due to tight quarters? Horses sleep standing up
Absolutely not true. Horses most certainly do lie down to rest or sleep. Just because a horse is lying down does NOT mean the horse is ill.
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TheBarnRules Donating Member (3 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #17
28. These horses are kept in tiny "stables" soiled with feces
Not true - have you actually been to the stables? Do you actually know what the rules are for the carriage horses regarding turnout, etc? Yeah, I didn't think so...
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #3
21. How precisely is banning hansom carriages "damage"?
How precisely is banning hansom carriages "damage"?
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NickB79 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. Well, if you're a carriage driver, you'd be out of work.
Edited on Fri Dec-09-11 01:15 PM by NickB79
Damage.

Oh, and since it's now legal to slaughter horses for meat in the US, I wonder where many of the carriage horses would end up if a ban were enacted?
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Politicalboi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-11 01:54 PM
Response to Original message
5. We can eat them horses now
:puke:
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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-11 02:34 PM
Response to Original message
6. Wall Street could
do an IPO for 'People Pullers.' We'll have people pulling around other people sitting in cart.

Seriously, let the people ride bareback or not at all.
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Hardrada Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-11 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. We had people bicycle us in Berlin (sort of a ricksha mode)
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-11 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
7. Well, at least when the horses lose their jobs, they won't go to waste:
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harmonicon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-11 02:51 PM
Response to Original message
8. Is that you, Newt?
"Maybe some strong-bodied people who are unemployed could do that work."
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alp227 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-11 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. No, but how do you raise horses humanely in NEW YORK CITY
rather than one of the upstate counties? And I doubt that rich people would want to ride a human-driven form of transportation "like those ordinary folks"?
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lbrtbell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #12
18. How about we realize this is the 21st Century
And face the fact that horses have no place in a city. There are plenty of other things that can be done in NYC.
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Posteritatis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #18
26. "There's other stuff to do" is never a reason to ban something. (nt)
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Hotler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #8
16. We can use kids to pedal bike cabs. eom.
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saras Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-11 03:55 PM
Response to Original message
9. There's a nice dignified career with a future - pulling the rich around in carts.
Domesticated horses usually like working. If they want to give up domestication, that's a big project, and means no horses, no cows, no pigs, and no chickens.

Why are Americans so insistent on protecting the rights of individual assholes, even if it means putting unreasonable restrictions on whole classes of people instead. What's so hard about charging carriage owners who abuse their animals with animal abuse and leaving the others alone?

With the sane ones, it would be possible to set up competitive energy as to who treated their horses the best, to contradict the economic pressure to treat them badly. This would make them more attractive, and hence a better, probably more profitable business. Friendly, well-behaved horses that like people.
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-11 04:09 PM
Response to Original message
10. Steam carriages wouldn't be any better. Those boilers can explode!
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Old Troop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-11 04:25 PM
Response to Original message
11. And the vote from the horses is................
Neigh! Oh I'm so sorry, but I couldn't resist.
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wordpix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-11 07:47 PM
Response to Original message
14. we have bike cabs in DC---I consider them dangerous b/c there are no designated lanes
I've been in them and I've gone around them---both ways, it's dangerous. They take up an entire lane and it's madness at rush hour near the Tidal Basin where they operate (among other places). Someone is going to get hurt, I'm afraid.
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onehandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #14
20. Bicycles have vehicle rights. Generally laws allow them to 'drive like a car.'
Bike lanes are almost useless, unless they are isolated by a curb or barrier, as they frequently are in Europe.

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happyslug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-11 08:59 PM
Response to Original message
15. Lets be honests, someone wants the carriage house
The old rule of thumb is look at the money. Yes the cabbies may earn up to $100,000 a year (that is over and above the cost to upkeep the horse and cab) but real estate along Central Park can be worth millions of dollars per square foot. Given such economics, I suspect the horses will lose.
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lbrtbell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #15
19. Do you know what the "carriage house" is?
Again...video of where the horses are kept can be found on YouTube.

The horses are put in a building with several floors--ramps installed in place of the steps. The tiny "stalls" are like prison cells, the floors are caked with horse manure, and the animals don't even have room to move.

That building is not going to house humans in any capacity, due to health concerns alone.
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happyslug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #19
24. The building can still be torn down and replaced by a modern building
I did not say convert the actual Carriage house, but convert the land it is on.
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TheBarnRules Donating Member (3 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #19
29.  Do you know what the "carriage house" is?
It is clear that you don't know what the "carriage house" is either. Have you actually been to the stables? Watching video on YouTube is not the same as actually going to the stables.

The stables were built as stables. Many stables, including those used by the Queen's horses in London, have ramps. Ramps are much better for horses' legs than steps. And the stalls are 10 x 10, which is pretty standard in the horse world, which you obviously know nothing about.
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mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 02:59 PM
Response to Original message
25. that would be sad to loose. i don't know about new york
but my daughter used to drive here in chicago. the horses here were well cared for for a simple reason- they are a big investment. buying and training a horse that can do that job is not peanuts.
as far as their living quarters, their stalls are small. but they spend the day exercising. they are fine to sleep tight. and usually horses were rotated between work and a farm outside the city. any horse that started to show any wear and tear usually got a rest on the farm.

horses like to have jobs. no jobs, no horses. and you can't make a horse do something it doesn't want to. all their horses were happy to work.
i really never got the people who would come up to my daughter and give her a hard time.
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Johnson20 Donating Member (78 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 10:52 AM
Response to Original message
30. Well if celebrities are endorsing it,
it must be the right and proper thing to do. :sarcasm:

I would wager that those horses are far better treated than most working horses.
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Paladin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-11 10:58 AM
Response to Original message
31. Watch For The Effect Of Spielberg's New "War Horse" Movie. (n/t)
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