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hue Donating Member (571 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-07-11 08:42 PM
Original message
Cern scientist expects 'first glimpse' of Higgs boson
Source: BBC News

A respected scientist from the Cern particle physics laboratory has told the BBC he expects to see "the first glimpse" of the Higgs boson next week.

It comes as the search for the mysterious fundamental particle reaches its endgame.

If so, this will be a significant milestone for teams at the famous Large Hadron Collider (LHC).

Read more: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-16074411



this is a major find for humanity!!!
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Shoe Horn Donating Member (54 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-07-11 09:20 PM
Response to Original message
1. I agree, it's a 'significant milestone' for science and for humanity.nt
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salib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-07-11 09:26 PM
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2. I do not know about humantiy
But for high-energy physics, it is certainly a nice confirmation of a number of extensions to the standard model.

Of course, if the Higgs did not show, it would be even more interesting, in many ways.
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Exultant Democracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-07-11 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Either will be exciting.
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Duppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-07-11 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. "if the Higgs did not show"
I'm taking bets it does not show. Anyone care to bet? :rofl:



Here’s a front-line report from Rice University physicist Paul Padley, who is in Switzerland this week:

"If you take the previously presented results the most recent being shown at the Hadron Collider Physics Conference, and then scale amount of data to what we are now able to analyze, one would not expect a large enough Higgs signal to declare a discovery. In addition, in the small mass window that is now allowed, the standard model prediction is that the number events expected will not be enough to declare a discovery.

In particle physics the standard for discovery is 5 standard deviations above background. At about 3 standard deviations we might start saying words like hints of or possible evidence of and so forth. Five sigma may seem like too stringent a criterion, but just think of the number of analyses underway at the LHC. There are hundreds of potential papers in the data, and so one expects to the the occasional 3 sigma false result and a fair number of 2 sigma false results.

Again looking back at the previously announced results, the remaining mass range for the Higgs boson is exactly in the region where it is most difficult to look for it. That is only natural, that is why it is the last hiding place left.

Lets suppose the Higgs boson is real and we get at some point in time a 5 sigma signal. At that point in fact we still have a lot of work to do in order to establish the observed object is indeed the Higgs boson as we expect it. Once the mass of the Higgs boson is known there are very clear predictions as to its properties and what sort of particles it will decay to.

We will need to check all those things out before we know for sure what sort of object we are looking at."

A 5-sigma event means that there is virtually no chance of it occurring randomly in the data. In any case, my eyes will be on Switzerland next Tuesday."

http://blog.chron.com/sciguy/2011/12/physicists-close-t... /



High energy theoretical physics will be getting much more interesting.

:popcorn:

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On the Road Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-07-11 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. So What Do You Think About the Technicolor Alternative?
My cousin is working on that and explained it to me over Thanksgiving. It involves no Higgs at all and dark mass being explained by combinations of massless particles acquiting mass through interaction (eg, glueballs).
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Duppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 01:52 AM
Response to Reply #8
15. The Technicolor Alternative 'has issues.'
'It's very clever though.'

I cannot expand any further at this point because my son doesn't have time to talk with me since the term has ended and he's buried in grading. He's the theoretical high energy physicist. My opinions on the Higgs are 'derived' 2nd hand through him and through my phd physicist hubby . ;) I'm surrounded by theorists!




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jimlup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-07-11 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. I agree that that it may not be there...
As an experimental physics Ph.D. I'm only slightly less ignorant than an average layperson but my intuition suggests that the truth will be more subtle and complex than an "easy" Higgs. I suspect that something more is going on than the "standard model" - there are just too many hints of further complication. Dark Energy is our modern version of the aether of the 19th century and "a missing Higgs" would at least be another clue for that puzzle.

Based on the comments which you've posted it sounds like the rumors which I have been hearing are true. That they are certainly seeing "events" but are waiting on statistics. 5 sigma is a tough one but I certainly understand why it is the standard. I recall a story told in our particle physics class about a FERMILAB measurement which was published at 2 sigma and turned out to be wrong. It essentially ruined the publishing scientist's reputation.
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harun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 09:11 AM
Response to Reply #7
18. I say it doesn't show either.
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buddysmellgood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-07-11 09:34 PM
Response to Original message
3. It's a communist chocolate hellhole and it has to be stopped.
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dgauss Donating Member (217 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-07-11 10:05 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. It's a communist dark chocolate hellhole.
Edited on Wed Dec-07-11 10:11 PM by dgauss
You obviously have no understanding of science.
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-11 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. And you seem to have no sense of humor. nt
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-11 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. 'dark chocolate' = 'dark matter' - humour!
I think dgauss was doing better at the humour than you are.
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-11 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. okay then...
:shrug:
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-07-11 09:46 PM
Response to Original message
5. YAY!!!
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waddirum Donating Member (106 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-11 11:11 AM
Response to Original message
13. An interesting quote from the article:
Mr Bertolucci told Newsnight: "This hunt for the Higgs is like fishing in an ancient way instead of using modern tools you are removing the water from the pond it might look tedious but it is the only way, at the end of the day, when you have removed all the water from the pond to find the smallest fish."
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-11 11:46 AM
Response to Original message
14. Kicked and recommended.
Thanks for the thread, hue.
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jmowreader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 04:24 AM
Response to Original message
16. The most screwed up end result imaginable...
is if it turns out the Higgs needs 10 to 15 TeV to show its ugly face. (The LHC, if they ever get confident enough to run it at full power, will do 7 TeV.)
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 06:02 AM
Response to Original message
17. K&R
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