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dipsydoodle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-11 10:53 AM
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Radical eurozone shakeup could see countries stripped of voting rights
Source: Guardian

The European commission could be empowered to impose austerity measures on eurozone countries being bailed out, usurping the functions of government in countries such as Greece, Ireland, or Portugal. Bailed-out countries could also be stripped of their voting rights in the EU, under radical proposals being discussed at the highest level in Brussels before this week's crucial EU summit on the sovereign debt crisis.

A confidential paper circulated to EU leaders on Tuesday by Herman Van Rompuy, the EU council president who will chair the summit on Thursday and Friday, says that eurobonds or the pooling of eurozone debt would be a powerful tool in resolving the crisis, despite fierce German resistance to the idea.

It calls for "more intrusive control of national budgetary policies by the EU" and lays out various options for enforcing fiscal discipline supra-nationally.

The two-page paper, obtained by the Guardian, is to be discussed on Wednesday among senior officials in an attempt to build a consensus ahead of the summit. It may instead set off an explosive rebellion by eurozone countries balking at the options outlined by Van Rompuy, who heavily emphasises the need for a new punitive regime overseen by EU institutions that would be given new powers of intervention.

Read more: http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/dec/06/eurozone...
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pampango Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-11 11:16 AM
Response to Original message
1. A common currency does require more common financial governance, but this seems
to be overkill.
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dixiegrrrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-11 11:24 AM
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2. Once they have taken over Europe, who is next?
This is the modern version of annexing Poland....will the countries stand up this time or repeat disastrous appeasement policy? How many remember history?
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pampango Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-11 12:04 PM
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4. Who is "they"? If Europeans want a common currency, fine. If they don't, fine.
If they want a common currency they will need some common governance of that currency. If they don't want a common currency, they will make France's National Front and other right wing "eurosceptic" parties very happy. It is their choice to make.

The history also includes extreme nationalism with countries competing with each other rather than cooperating. We know what extreme form that nationalist 'competition' eventually took in Europe's history of warfare.

I think that the EU is a great thing and has led to many decades of peace and prosperity in Europe through open borders and trust. The Euro, OTOH, may have been a step too far. I understand that some dream of a Europe united as one country (and the common currency was a step in that direction), but the cure seems worse than the disease. I hope they can find a way to unwind the Euro without destroying the EU and unleashing hyper-nationalism on the continent again as many right wing parties there are clamoring for.
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dixiegrrrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-11 05:37 PM
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6. If you remember, "they" is France and Germany deciding for other countries.
And the IMF.

Remember that the Italians were supposed to vote on a referendum, but instead the it was canceled and Berlusconi was replaced by a technocrat that the Italians did not even vote on.
Same thing happened in Greece, Papademos, a former banker, was appointed, the people did not choose him.

Le Monde had a story showing the link among the new Greek, the new Italian, and the head of the European Central Bank all having ties to Goldman Sachs:
"The new president of the European Central Bank, the new Italian and Greek Prime Ministers (respectively) all belong to Goldman Sachs. The US investment bank has indeed woven a unique network of influence in Europe through a dense network.

In any contest, you need a hierarchy. The first prize goes to Mario Draghi, of course, vice-chairman of Goldman Sachs in Europe between 2002 and 2005. Named a partner, Draghi is responsible for mixing companies and sovereign. As such, one of his missions was to sell the financial product swap to conceal part of sovereign debt, which helped disguise Greek accounts.

Then there is Italys Mario Monti, an international adviser to the firm since 2005.

And third is none other than Lucas Papademos, who was last week appointed as Prime Minister of Greece. Papademos was Governor of the Greek Central Bank between 1994 and 2002, and he apparently participated in falsifying accounts perpetrated by Goldman Sachs in the year 2000 under the ruling PASOK party of Costas Simitis.

http://www.keeptalkinggreece.com/2011/11/15/le-monde-dr... /
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amandabeech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-11 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Middle aged Europeans must remember.
I'm a middle aged U.S. citizen, and I remember what my parents have told me and what I've learned on my own through history classes and independent reading.

Over in GD, there is a thread discussing China's stated purpose of building a much larger and modern navy, particularly to refuse other nations any part of the hydrocarbons lying underneath the Spratly Islands. It is a resources grab, just like the Japanese attempted in WWII.

Now, we have the Germans figuratively on the march in Europe.

I've been looking for a new FDR for several years as I saw the present economic problems coming.

Now I'm wondering if we don't need an FDR for his diplomatic and military ability.

My Mom inherited most of the family farm earlier this year, and she hasn't been able to sell since the tillable acres are subject to a five year lease, of which two years are left to go.

Perhaps Mom should hold onto that land for more than the two years that she must.
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saras Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-11 11:27 AM
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3. Cool. World War III in the making.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-07-11 08:19 AM
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7. The EU is the German Empire without the Kaiser.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-07-11 08:33 AM
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8. Right. nt
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