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Bosonic Donating Member (774 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 08:33 AM
Original message
Iran military shoots down U.S. drone: state TV
Source: Reuters

Iran's military said on Sunday it had shot down a U.S. reconnaissance drone aircraft in eastern Iran, a military source told state television.

"Iran's military has downed an intruding RQ-170 American drone in eastern Iran," Iran's Arabic-language Al Alam state television network quoted the unnamed source as saying.

Read more: http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/12/04/us-iran-usa-d...
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Arctic Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 08:37 AM
Response to Original message
1. Good.
As they should.
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hack89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 08:40 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. One use of drones is to make an enemy reveal his capablities
by putting up a sacrificial drone to be shot down. MALDs are a good example.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADM-160_MALD
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Arctic Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 08:51 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. True.
But it isn't like they are using stealth technology with these things so just about anyone with radar and AA missiles can down one.
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NutmegYankee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. ...
Edited on Sun Dec-04-11 09:24 AM by NutmegYankee
I don't believe the Iranian military. Making up stories and photo shopping pictures are quite common for them.

On edit: I was thinking of the earlier UAVs.
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Arctic Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #8
27. All militarists lie. Ours is no better.
Think Tillman or Lynch.
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reACTIONary Donating Member (257 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #27
43. Except that...
...our militarists are lying for us.
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hack89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #6
14. And you really believe them without any evidence?
the Iranian government lies a lot. Perhaps we should wait for the pictures?
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truth2power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 09:33 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. Unlike the U.S. gov't, which lies all the time.
:grr:
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hack89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. All governments lie - is that a big surprise? nt
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #14
53. U.S. official: Iran does have our drone
December 8, 2011 6:36 PM
U.S. official: Iran does have our drone
ByBob Orr

(CBS News) A U.S. official tells CBS News that there is "high confidence" that a captured American aircraft shown on Iranian television today is, in fact, one of this country's most sophisticated spy planes.

The Pentagon declined to comment, but the American official says analysis of the video confirms the RQ-170 unmanned drone was captured. Exactly how that happened is still being analyzed.

CBS News correspondent Bob Orr reports that the aircraft presented as the unmanned U.S. surveillance drone appeared to be nearly intact, though the undercarriage was obscured by propaganda banners draped below the wings.

The message on the left proclaimed, "America cannot do any harm to us." And on the right, against a background of American flags and skulls, the message read: "We have trampled on America."

More:
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57339834/u.s-offi...
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 09:30 AM
Response to Reply #1
12. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #1
31. So you automatically believe a statement by Iran
and cheer them on?

There has to be a limit here.

Right wingers overdo it one way but you sure are overdoing it the other way.
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chrisa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #1
35. Too bad it didn't crash into Der Fuhrer Ahmadinejad
What a shame that would be.
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Arctic Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 08:50 PM
Response to Reply #35
48. Well if we are wishing, let's add to that list.
I know some in our borders I wouldnt a plane falling on them.
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Dennis Donovan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 08:38 AM
Response to Original message
2. They have every right to...
Edited on Sun Dec-04-11 08:40 AM by Dennis Donovan
...if it's in its airspace. Why aren't we using satellites in this case?

Here's an RQ-170:
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Divernan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #2
11. Total cost per drone: $218 million. Fat profits for MIC.
Edited on Sun Dec-04-11 09:46 AM by Divernan
Why use drones instead of satellite suveillance? There are advantages, such as penetration of cloud cover/sand storms. But hey! every drone shot down has to be replaced - at a HUGE cost to us taxpayers and a HUGE profit for the manufacturer.

On edit: I mistakenly researched drone RQ-4. I've been googling like mad for costs for the RQ-170 and have only found reference to the "black budget", i.e, the billions which disappear each year into the portion of the Pentagon's budget which is not publicly reported. Anyone else able to find what the RQ-170 developmental costs/costs per drone are?

Here's what's available from Wikipedia re the earlier RQ-4:
The Northrop Grumman (formerly Ryan Aeronautical) RQ-4 Global Hawk (known as Tier II+ during development) is an unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) used by the United States Air Force and Navy as a surveillance aircraft.

In role and operational design, the Global Hawk is similar to the Lockheed U-2, the venerable 1950s spy plane. It is a theater commander's asset to provide a broad overview and systematic target surveillance. For this purpose, the Global Hawk is able to provide high resolution Synthetic Aperture Radar (SAR)that can penetrate cloud-cover and sandstorms and Electro-Optical/Infrared (EO/IR) imagery at long range with long loiter times over target areas. It can survey as much as 40,000 square miles (103,600 square kilometers) of terrain a day.

It is used as a high-altitude platform for surveillance and security. Missions for the Global Hawk cover the spectrum of intelligence collection capability to support forces in worldwide military operations. According to the Air Force, the capabilities of the aircraft allow more precise targeting of weapons and better protection of forces through superior surveillance capabilities.

The Global Hawk costs about US$35 million<3> (actual per-aircraft costs; with development costs also included, the per-aircraft cost rises to US$218 million each<4>).
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UnrepentantLiberal Donating Member (747 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #2
29. Because drones are more fun.
That bad boy in your pic is a good example.
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dipsydoodle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 08:39 AM
Response to Original message
3. What height do they fly at ?
Anyone know ?

Would a kite flown on steel wire suffice to get one down or maybe a catapult / sling shot ?
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inademv Donating Member (738 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #3
10. Maximum of about 15km
The story says they basically hacked the drone and crash landed it. To be honest it's not surprising since it is somewhat well known that drone video and flight control feeds are not encrypted... at all...
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #10
25. "drone video and flight control feeds are not encrypted... at all"
I don't believe that for a microsecond.
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Akarion Donating Member (6 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #10
28. But they are encrypted
Edited on Sun Dec-04-11 11:55 AM by Akarion
This is false, the controls for the UAV's are encrypted. The live video feed was unencrypted for some time due to lag or some such but people "hacking" into the feed by simply putting together a receiver that can take the signal for 20$ and watching video does not mean that its easy to hack into and take control over a UAV.

The story is most likely false until the Iranians present any evidence for their claim (not the first time they have claimed it, never presents any evidence for "security reasons").
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hack89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 08:43 AM
Response to Original message
5. I think I will wait for the pictures of the wreck. nt
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ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 08:56 AM
Response to Original message
7. Lets wait for confirmation on this one
Reuters is reporting the it not as a fact but as an Iranian claim.
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Chipper Chat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #7
24. I remember when the Iranian military shot down Carter's rescue plane
in 1980 they had it on TV the next day. We'll see........
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #7
33. +1
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FarCenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 09:21 AM
Response to Original message
9. Lockheed Martin RQ-170 Sentinel
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin_RQ-170_Sen...

Note that the wiki article says that the Fars New Agency story says that "Iranian Electronic Warfare Units managed to take control of the UAV and take custody of it with minor damage."

It also had "tried to penetrate Iran's airspace through the eastern borders", so it was probably one of the units based in Afghanistan.

The eastern border area of Iran is unlikely to be involved with Iran's nuclear program. Most likely, either there was a malfunction and the drone inadvertently flew into Iran, or the drone was carrying out surveillance of cross-border infiltration between Iran and Afghanistan.
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cstanleytech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 09:30 AM
Response to Reply #9
13. If true I wonder if they took control and were the ones that made it enter their air space
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hack89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. Wonder why they don't release any pictures of it, nt
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bahrbearian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #13
19. Only a matter of time.
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FarCenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 09:43 AM
Response to Reply #13
21. I'm a little skeptical about the "took control" part; more likely it malfunctioned
Possibly if it is heading into Iran you could just jam its comm link. This would require getting an electronic warfare aircraft above and close to the drone, so feasibility might depend on the drone's altitude.

Most likely it is simply programmed to fly straight and level if it loses communications?
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FarCenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 09:55 AM
Response to Reply #9
23. More links
Aviation Week in 2009 after the program was revealed. http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blogs/defense/index.jsp?...

Iranian PressTV news story. http://www.presstv.ir/detail/213765.html
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hack89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 09:34 AM
Response to Original message
17. They made a similiar claim in July which they later recanted. nt
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truth2power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 09:42 AM
Response to Original message
20. I don't understand why people think it's a bad thing that Iran shot down our drone....
(assuming that's what happened).

If the People's Republic of China sent a drone over U.S. airspace, would we shoot it down?? You betcha!

So what's the problem? Except maybe that "Jesus loves the USA" and we're entitled to make our own rules. :sarcasm:



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hack89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 09:50 AM
Response to Reply #20
22. The military expects drones to be shot down
Edited on Sun Dec-04-11 09:50 AM by hack89
they are used for missions to risky for manned aircraft. I don't think anyone is upset - Iran would be in the right to shot one down over its territory. I just doubt that they actually did it.
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #20
32. There's a knee jerk anti-US thing going on here
It's likely an accident. And we shouldn't be just cheering on another country merely because they are another country.

I don't see a big problem. Now the right wing would demand an attack on Iran, which would be ridiculous. But the left wing automatically cheering for Iran is equally ridiculous.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #32
38. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Divernan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #38
45. Knee jerk, to use his own phrase, Obama supporters have no credibility to suffer.
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-11 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #45
50. Oh baloney. Obama was elected POTUS
Supporting him has credibility in society. Automatically assuming the Iranian government is telling the truth and is right is the position with less credibility in society.
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truth2power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #32
47. It's not an accident. and I'm not "cheering" for Iran. I'm just sick and tired
of the United States of Terror stomping all over any country in the world that we choose to grind under our heel.

I'll say it again: If China sent drones into our airspace we'd shoot them down, and there'd be hell to pay, you can be assured. Iran has the same right, as far as I'm concerned.

Furthermore, if I were in a position of power in Iran I'd be directing my scientists to pursue nuclear weapon technology with all deliberate speed, because the only countries the US doesn't attack and kill or torture their people are those with nuclear weapons.

I wish no one in the world had these weapons, but in the world we live in, as long as the US practices State Terrorism, countries have to protect themselves.

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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-06-11 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #47
49. You are kind of assuming Iran is right
And why assume that?

Why not wait to find out what happened, if anything? You're saying that the Iranian government is inherently credible.

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Safetykitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 11:10 AM
Response to Original message
26. Oh, and that "we will cut defense" thing? Oh yes, I see THAT happening.
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Bosonic Donating Member (774 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 01:00 PM
Response to Original message
30. ISAF says drone lost over Afghanistan late last week
(Reuters) - A surveillance drone flying over western Afghanistan had gone out of control late last week and may be the one Iran said it had shot down over its own airspace, the International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) said on Sunday.

"The UAV to which the Iranians are referring may be a U.S. unarmed reconnaissance aircraft that had been flying a mission over western Afghanistan late last week. The operators of the UAV lost control of the aircraft and had been working to determine its status," an ISAF statement said.

The statement about the unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) was issued in Kabul and released to reporters covering an international conference on Afghanistan in the German city Bonn.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/12/04/us-iran-usa-d...
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
34. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Robb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 02:16 PM
Response to Original message
36. Well, at some point they might.
But when they make the same unsubstantiated claim every six months for about a decade, thinking people begin to have doubts. :D
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dipsydoodle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 02:27 PM
Response to Original message
37. BBC News latest says :
The Nato-led Isaf force in neighbouring Afghanistan says the US drone could be one that was lost over western Afghanistan last week.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-16024605
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jakeXT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 02:49 PM
Response to Original message
39. Interesting times, I remember reports from 2005/2006 about drone flights
In June, Brigadier General Amir-Ali Hajizadeh, the commander of the Guards' aerospace unit, said Iran had shown Russian experts the US drones in its possession.

"Russian experts requested to see these drones and they looked at both the downed drones and the models made by the Guards through reverse engineering," he said.

Hajizadeh did not specify how many US drones were shown nor gave any details of the copies Iran was said to have made of the aircraft.

The US military and the CIA routinely use drones to monitor military activity in the region.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/asia/2011/12/201112415991...

The Case for Engagement

Scott Ritter

...

The Bush Administration speaks of the need to move quickly on the issue of Iran's nuclear ambition and to roll back the forces of terror represented by the Islamic Republic. The repeated and explicit demand of the Administration is for regime change, as evidenced in the March 2006 "National Security Strategy of the United States," where Iran is named repeatedly as the number-one threat to the United States. The alleged Iranian threat espoused by Bush is based on fear, and arises from a combination of ignorance and ideological inflexibility. The path that the United States is currently embarked on regarding Iran is a path that will lead to war. (Indeed, there are numerous unconfirmed reports that the United States has already begun covert military operations inside Iran, including overflights by pilotless drones and recruitment and training of MEK, Kurdish and Azeri guerrillas.) Such a course of action would make even the historic blunder of the Iraq invasion pale by comparison. When we talk of war, we must never forget that we are talking about the lives of the men and women who serve us in the armed forces. We have a duty and responsibility to insure that all options short of war are exhausted before any decision to enter into conflict is made. On the issue of Iran, the United States hasn't even come close to exhausting the available options.

http://www.thenation.com/article/case-engagement?page=f...
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ZombieHorde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 03:03 PM
Response to Original message
40. Iran Says It Shot Down Unmanned U.S. Plane
Source: Wall Street Journal

Julian E. Barnes

WASHINGTONIran claimed Sunday it shot down a U.S. stealth drone near the country's eastern border, but U.S. officials in Afghanistan said the craft could instead be an unmanned reconnaissance plane that veered off course and crashed last week.

The official Iranian news agency quoted a military official who said Tehran had downed an RQ-170 Sentinel, the U.S. Air Force's stealth drone.

U.S. and NATO officials wouldn't say what kind of American drone had gone missing. But a U.S. official said there was no indication that the aircraft had been shot down by the Iranians.

American officials believe that after the remote pilots lost control of the aircraft, the drone crashed in an unknown location.



Read more: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204770404...
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Drale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. You can't trust anything Iran says but
if it is true, its not shocking. In fact I think it would be more shocking if Iran was not being watched.
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ZombieHorde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. Is there any government you trust to tell you the truth? nt
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 03:14 PM
Response to Original message
44. Oh dear, this is going to get bad.
:scared:
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octothorpe Donating Member (358 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #44
46. I don't see why this would cause an international incident
I mean, if we were flying over their airspace, then they are pretty much expected to try to take it down. It would be ridiculous if they didn't. So I don't foresee the US making too big of a stink about it. I also don't see Iran doing anything about it either. Do they really want thousands of missiles lobbed at targets in their country? I'm guessing probably not.
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Bosonic Donating Member (774 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-11 02:49 PM
Response to Original message
51. Iran shows film of captured US drone
Iranian TV has shown the first video footage of an advanced US drone aircraft that Tehran says it downed near the Afghan border.

Images show Iranian military officials inspecting the RQ-170 Sentinel stealth aircraft which appears to be undamaged.

US officials have acknowledged the loss of the unmanned plane, saying it had malfunctioned.

However, Iranian officials say its forces electronically hijacked the drone and steered it to the ground.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-16098562
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ileus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-11 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #51
52. odd looking creature...
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Shoe Horn Donating Member (54 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-11 06:10 PM
Response to Original message
54. Self-destruct mechanisms ... where iz they?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-destruct

"Self-destruct mechanisms are sometimes employed to prevent an apparatus or information from being used by unauthorised persons in the event that it is lost or stolen. For example they may be found in high-security data storage devices (e.g: Ironkey), where it is important for the data to be destroyed to prevent compromise."


But, who knows what's really going on.

How'd they get Stuxnet 'under the radar'?
A common trick, I hear, I have no interest in this myself,
is to leave an infected thumbdrive just laying around for someone to use.


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