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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-11 11:00 AM
Original message
Carl Levin bucks White House on detainees
Source: Politico


The liberal Michigan Democrat who voted against the Iraq War in 2002 and typically votes with his party nine out of 10 times rejected call after call by senior Obama administration officials to overhaul how his defense bill handles the treatment of suspected terrorists.



Setting up a high-stakes showdown, Levin teamed up with Obamas 2008 rival, Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), to push a $662 billion defense bill over the White Houses veto threat because of a highly contentious provision that could allow the military to indefinitely imprison suspected terrorists.

The Senate overwhelmingly passed the defense bill Thursday night, 93-7, after Levin agreed with critics to include language ensuring that nothing in the bill would affect current law for those arrested in the United States. But the administrations most significant concerns that the bill could impede sensitive intelligence investigations dont appear to be fully resolved, potentially escalating tensions between the White House and Capitol Hill.

At the center of the fight has been Levin, a leading defense voice in the Democratic Party whose defection gave powerful election-year ammunition for Republicans to attack the White House on national security, helped attract other Democratic defectors and could end up as a political embarrassment for the president if hes forced to sign legislation despite his objections.




Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1211/69585.html



What scared Carl Levin so badly that he wants to lock up Americans?
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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-11 11:06 AM
Response to Original message
1. I am shocked by this.
I see Sen. Levin pretty regularly. I'll be asking him about this in person as soon as I can see him.

Julie
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-11 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Thanks...The secrecy surrounding this move is very concerning...
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avaistheone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-11 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Why don't you call his office and ask him.
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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-11 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #3
9. Really?
I'm sure Carl's always hanging around the office.....wait, no they are never in their office! You call office, you talk to aide. Period. You go see him in person, you talk to him directly.

Julie
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avaistheone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 01:45 AM
Response to Reply #9
20. Call his office
and talk to his aide. I am sure you will get an earful of why Levin has decided to take his position.


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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 08:17 AM
Response to Reply #20
25. You aren't getting it.
I've been in politics a long time here in MI. I know his aides, they are not who I want to talk to.

I want to hear it from the man, face to face, directly. And I will write it down as he speaks, letting him know there are many awaiting his answer and I will be sure to pass it on.

I have long appreciated Carl and have many chats with him. He's a plain-spoken guy and will explain his actions. I may not get to see him before next month but see him I will and DU will get a full report.

Julie
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 08:25 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. Good for you. Many talk a good game, but act only when it comes to
Edited on Sun Dec-04-11 08:26 AM by No Elephants
posting or signing an online petition, which, in my book is not taking action in the real world. They won't even make a $5 donation, volunteer or even write a letter or make a call.

If you care enough about something to get hold of a politician in the flesh and make him explain himself, well, heaps of good on you for that.
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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. Yes, definitely. Nothing like real life.
Many years ago DU inspired me actually. Done many fundraisers, chaired parties, built membership, worked at the state level and just everything you can think of. I really enjoy talking with Levin, he's a tell it like it is kind of guy. he comes here every January for a thing we do, if I don't see him before that I'll talk to him then. I may save the question on this issue for the big Q&A so all hear question and answer (and ask follow-ups!). Wouldn't be the first time we little people have worked in tandem to get through answers to complex issues~~for the benefit of all to hear!

Julie
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #25
32. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-11 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. he's a piddly ass little man who needs to go, the coward.
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-11 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. This is his 8th term and he will be there until 2015.
But how in the world do we have so many who voted for this...
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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-11 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. Clueless post of the week!
Carl Levin has been in the Senate since 1978. He has been a reliable liberal on so many fronts it's not funny. I have talked to him countless times, he is very smart and usually very liberal.

But yeah, fuck that, he needs to go. Of course we have no one in MI who we could easily replace him with....and he has been unassailable at the ballot box....but hey, we don't like this thing he did so fuck that! Let the seat go to the R's if need be. He has annoyed me he must go!!1!

I've known four year olds who can think bigger picture than that which your post reveals.

Julie
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a simple pattern Donating Member (426 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-11 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Sounds like some scary four year olds!
Better lock them up!
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-11 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #11
18. don't worry about that. Levine and McCain made that possible
but don't let that bother you. it doesn't bother the posters above.
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-11 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #10
17. dear poster. he co-authored the bill that allows the infinite
Edited on Sat Dec-03-11 06:40 PM by roguevalley
detention of people INCLUDING AMERICANS that just passed the senate.

Maybe that's your idea of a 'good guy' but to me that is the very definition of a FUCKER. Rant at me all you want but he's a weasily little fucker that needs to go. Since when does being there since forever mean anything? He's ready to put our own in prison forever for fake security and if you don't think a president won't abuse that and put protesters in prison you haven't been paying attention.
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newspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #1
28. Okay, so he was against the iraq war
so, why when I called his office, one of his aides basically was an arsehole and kept drilling me on where did I hear there was no WMDs. Or was he against it before he was for it? Was it all just kabuki?

To me, he's looking like a chameleon.
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shraby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-11 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
4. It's so uncharacteristic of Levin, there has to be a back
story to the move. Possibly a way to get the defense allocation scaled back? If Obama vetoes it, they'll have to go back to the drawing board on the bill.
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-02-11 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Hopefully Obama does veto this very troubling bill...
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sarcasmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-11 10:54 AM
Response to Original message
8. Time for this career politician to leave.
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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-11 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. I know, right?
He's only fought the good fight since 1978, that slacking mother-fucker!

My gawd I've never seen so many people willing to throw in the towel at the slightest thing no matter how many decades of good service! Ya'll remind me of the corporate bosses we all supposedly hate.

Julie
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sarcasmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-11 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. Guess you are not for term limits.
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neverforget Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #12
29. Sorry but Sen Levin is on the wrong side of this issue and it's the dark
side too. If you know him so well, then why don't you contact him before January because by then it'll be too late.
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-11 04:28 PM
Response to Original message
13. Carl Levin is the problem.
Edited on Sat Dec-03-11 04:54 PM by RUMMYisFROSTED
Not the solution.

imho
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sarcasmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-11 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. +1
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DeSwiss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-11 05:40 PM
Response to Original message
14. ....
"The illusion of freedom will continue as long as it's profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where
the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery..."
~Frank Zappa


- The ''law of diminishing returns'' is the only law a corporate person obeys......







Meanwhile, America shops for bargains......
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dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-03-11 09:42 PM
Response to Original message
19. "...if hes (Obama)forced to sign legislation despite his objections."?????
:wtf:

He's the president, the Constitution gives him the power to veto bad legislation. The only thing that would "force" him to do this is his own inability to take a stand the Republicans won't like.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 04:40 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. Now, now. If President Obama signs a bill he should veto, force of one kind or another
will surely have been involved.
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 05:26 AM
Response to Reply #19
22. Trial balloon?
NT!

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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 06:01 AM
Response to Reply #22
23. Yep, nothing more forceful than a a trial balloon aimed right at your temple.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 06:04 AM
Response to Original message
24. Follow the money. Or the votes, if he is up for re-election next year.
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The Stranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 12:56 PM
Response to Original message
30. It's not about rounding up Americans yet. Carl just wants to be able to lock up A-Rabs indefintely.
He's a bigot too.
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PassingFair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 01:22 PM
Response to Original message
31. What scared Carl Levin so badly that he wants to lock up Americans?
The information they have seen, and not
acted upon, has made them complicit.

That's the way it works.

No different than good people not standing up to
leaders like Saddam for fear of reprisal or banishment.

You do nothing, you are an accomplice.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. Actually, I do not fear reprisal or banishment. I fear being ignored by my government.
Edited on Sun Dec-04-11 01:34 PM by No Elephants
And the fear is well-founded.

Do I have the power to change Carl Levin's mind, short of violence? If so, tell me how. They don't even take calls or emails from people who are not in their states (or for the House, their district).

ETA: I agree with your general principle, but, when used in certain ways, it is just another way to blame the victims.
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PassingFair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-04-11 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. You're not a member of the ruling class.
Had you been given information and
been unwilling or unable to act upon
it due to the cloud of war, you would
have been drawn into complicity as well.

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