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emad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 10:08 AM
Original message
Royal wedding snubs Dutch throne
From BBC News:

<snip>
Dutch Prince Johan Friso has married Mabel Wisse Smit - and, in so doing, has renounced his claim to the throne. The government refused to approve the union because it said the couple had given "incorrect" information during the prenuptial vetting process.

Their engagement met controversy after the press found evidence Ms Wisse Smit had failed to admit the extent of an earlier association with a drug lord.

The pair beamed as they walked down the aisle of Delft's Old Church.

Norwegian Prince Harald V, US billionaire George Soros, and European royalty were among the 1,400 guests at the wedding.
<snip>
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3655645.stm

"Earlier association with a drug lord": never stopped them before... Maybe it's more to do with the murky cover up of the Dutch royal family's dealings with those vanished Royal Dutch Shell oil resevres that have recently resulted in so many co execs going down the pan... The Dutch queen allegedly lost more that $250 million in this scam....

No wonder Soros decided to show up...
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rooboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 10:10 AM
Response to Original message
1. Did someone say "drug lord"???
I'm sure a royal invitation will soon be forthcoming from the House of Bush...
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freetobegay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 10:12 AM
Response to Original message
2. I'm glad to see queens in the U.S. aren't
the only ones having a problem getting married!
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AlecBGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-04 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #2
12. ha ha ha ha
nice
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Turbineguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 10:13 AM
Response to Original message
3. You've posted Anti-Oranje-Nassau stuff before
about Queen Juliana being a ringer and were asked for further information. It never came.

In the interest of honest inquiry, do you have some credible sources?

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emad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Yes! It's not YET online but the forthcoming biography of
Wallis Simpson (Duchess of Windsor) by her daughter details all the murky stuff on the Dutch royal family, the Spanish, the Belgian, British etc etc etc.

I have proof read some of the pages before galley proof stage and have seen the historical documents that are being put into the public domain for the first time.

The book is scheduled for publication in the middle of June in the UK and was delayed from an earlier publication date of 2004 because some Hollywood studio wanted to make a movie about Wallis Simpson's life, starring Faye Dunaway. The whole thing went to court where the family got an injunction, enforceable in the US and UK, because the historical documents about her life had never been previously published, and so any movie before the book would be merely heresay.

Juliana won't be the only red faced royal in Europe.....

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catzies Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Wallis Simpson had a daughter?!?!? By which husband?
Married three times that I can recall, but didn't know any union produced a child. :shrug:
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emad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. She and the Duke of Windsor had a daughter.
Edited on Sat Apr-24-04 10:30 AM by emad aisat sana
That daughter is married to President Harry S Truman's brother's grandson.

They have six kids and numerous grandchidren.

They live in UK and US: the big house in DeWitt Clinton Park, off 11th Avenue, just north of Hell's Kitchen, in NY, and in London and South England.
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goclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Never knew that they had a child


Are there any pictures?
I love to read biographies and I don't recall that information.Is this just uncovered?
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emad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. The family's pretty secretive. Most stuff on them hasn't been
archived online because of security implications.

I think there might be some preliminary publisher's announcements soon - like early May.

Pics too. Also a website.

More info when I get it.
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Please note that emad eisat sana never has any links
to her assertions about people. As soon as she mentions parentage, you know she's winding you up. Remember, she was the one who asserted that Princess Diana was actually 3 different women, one of whom was John Major's daughter. Her proof is always either 'forthcoming' or covered by High Court injunctions.
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emad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-04 08:21 AM
Response to Reply #9
15. I've said it before: you are a polemicist with zero information
Edited on Mon Apr-26-04 09:14 AM by emad aisat sana
about the UK Official Secrets Act. The depth of your personal knowledge about the Trumans/Duke & Duchess of Windsor is proportionate to your knowledge of US/UK cold war history. However, it amuses me that you should consider yourself to be an authority on my postings. Can't imagine you have trawled the depth and breadth of my DU posts to come up with such an assertion. Your personal agenda is not my agenda.

For the record, the forthcoming official biography of Wallis, written by her daughter, contains the following inter alia:

Pictures of President John F Kennedy awarding Wallis the Presidential Medal of Freedom at the Windsor's Paris villa in the Bois de Boulogne on 31 May 1961. Citiation also included in the forthcoming book.

April 1992: Pictures of Bill and Hillary Clinton at Marlborough House , when they were guests of honour at a reception the Trumans hosted for John Major the day after he won the '92 general election. This was at the early stages of Clinton's 1992 campaign, to which the Trumans contributed over $25 million via their charitable foundation, the Truman Trust. Details of their official contributions to this and other Democrat campaigns also included.

June 1993: Pictures of Bill and Hillary Clinton at a reception at the Trumans' DeWitt Clinton Park residence in NY, when they were guests of honour at a party for Mikhail and Raisa Gorbachev. All the usual political luminaries there, including the UN's Koffi Annan.

May 1996: Pictures of Bill Clinton at the Trumans' country residence in West Sussex (he and Hillary stayed there for 2 days) at the time he was interviewed for the BBC's Panorama current affairs programme. Jeremy Paxman interviewed Clinton for over an hour about pre-election strategy of the Democratic Party. Also talked about the Israeli/Palestinian question, in particular criticism that Democrats had bankrolled Israelis while ignoring the poverty and plight of the Palestinians. Clinton is seen in that interview refering to documents showing just how much humanitarian/practical aid his 1992-1996 administration had given to Palestinians.

This interview caused a furore in the UK because the rival channel ITV had not been offered a chance of asking him quesitons. He subsequently allowed ITN reporters to accompany him on Airforce One on his Africa trip where he talked extensively about the plight of the Ethiopians and US funding of Aids-relief projects in sub Saharan Africa.

July 1997: Pictures of the Clintons at the Trumans' party in West Sussex, UK. Also of them touring the Trumans' extensive art collection.

Don't know how much of this Clinton will also publish in his forthcoming autobiography, but I do know that there has been extensive editorial correspondence between Clintons and the Trumans in the last two years about which photos/documents are to be published in their respective books and ironing out possibilities of crossovers of information. The Trumans HAVE agreed to donate certain sensitive political documents to the Clinton Foundation and these will be available when the archive goes online in the autumn of this year. Mostly relating to Democrats private election campaign financings 1992-1996 and some 1996-2000 and historical cold war documents about Ronald reagan/Bush 1 dirty tricks campaigns on the Clintons, outside the US.

Professor Sir Ian Truman is a leading world authority on the psychopathology of criminal cults. He qualified in London and lectured in clinical psychiatry at New York University in the 1980s.
He has successfully sued and won substantial damages for defamation/slander/harassment against Ronald Reagan (New York 1983, documents to be included in Wallis biog), George Herbert Bush (1993, London and Texas (lawsuit documents to be included). His wife is a senior official at the UN. She is also an artist/scupltor/writer/designer. Example: Her architectrual designs were used extensively in the building of TriBeCa, a piece of real estate owned and developed in the 1980s by the Trumans.

She successfully sued George Walker Bush in 1985 and 1990
for slander, theft, defamation and harassment. All the lawsuit documents, including the presiding judges' comments, are to be included in the Wallis book. Plus her reasons for telling the court in the 1985 lawsuit why she told Junior that she "did not date outside her species" - when he harassed her for sex. That was the remark which initiated him suing her, whereby she counter-sued and won substantial settlements against him, which he paid up in out-of-court agreements.

She also successfully sued Margaret Thatcher and the Conservative Party in 1992 and won over 10 million from them in an out of court settlement, for harrassment, slander and defamation. Thatcher issued a grovelling writen apology, also to be included in the Wallis biog.

The Trumans also sued Tony and Cherie Blair in 1996 for defamation and harassment. Out of court settlement meant the Blairs had to sell their Richmond Avenue house in Islington to pay for the costs/damages. Lawsuit details also to be included in Wallis biog, as they refer to slanders which Wallis successfuly sued about in the UK, and which were continued by the Blairs in the 1990s.

The Trumans are immensely secretive and have refused so far to publish any of the Duke and Duchess of Windsor's personal/private documents for security reasons. The page proof and galley proofs I have seen and edited contain the Duke's extensive correspondece with President Roosevelt, Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson and Nixon, as well as with Premiers Baldwin, Chamberlain, Churchill, Eden, MacMillan, Home and Wilson.

Also included are the documents detailing all the privacy lawsuits the Duke and Duchess won up to and including 1971. 1972-1986 personal papers of Wallis are included, including full details of which personal effects she bequeathed to her daughter and grandchildren in her 70 million legacy.

Wallis's grandchildren are Megan Truman Tucker, David Truman, Joseph Truman, Catherine Truman, Martha Truman. Also Thomas Truman, born the year after Wallis's death in 1986. Megan Truman and David Truman and both married and have children of their own. Megan Truman is a consultant paedetrician and David Truman is governor general of the commonwealth.

A website has been under construction for the last 2 years to co-incide with the publication of the official biography. It is completed but not yet online. Some delays to this were due to lawsuits from US movie makers who wanted to do a pic of Wallis's life, starring aye Dunaway. Trumans successfully sued and won an injunction banning any film until the biography of Wallis is published by them.

There has been extensive co-operation with the Clinton Foundation forthcoming website, including contributions of historical documents to it from the Trumans.

They hold the copyright to everything concerning Wallis and have fought tooth and nail to ensure they retain this. They have also sued numerous publishers who have made money from 'unofficial' Wallis publications.

Anyone working on the editorial of the Wallis biog, or for the Trumans in any shape or form has to sign a legally binding privacy agreement. They are notorious for sucessfully suing anyone who publishes unauthorised informnation about them.

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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-04 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #9
17. All fiction...& all so Upper Class
Therefore, far beyond the ability of our proletarian minds to comprehend.





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emad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-04 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. Can't wait for those publication party pics next month!
Or the launch of the Truman's website when the book comes out.

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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-04 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #18
21. Why will they begin advertising then?
There's been no advance publicity. None at all. Not a word.

Not a clue that a biography of Wallis is due.



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emad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-04 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. It was due out in 2002. The Trumans took out an injunction
against financiers interested in making a movie about Wallis starring Faye Dunaway to stop the film and were successful in 2002 in stopping it. They own all the copyrights on all Wallis's documents as well as those of the Duke of Windsor, worldwide. I think they refused to have Faye Dunaway in any movie about Wallis.

The biog is in ready to print format in the UK. I think the delay to announce the name of the publishing house this year also has a lot to do with the cross-over of documents and publishable material from the Clinton years 1992-2000. Clinton's own biog is due out first and his Presidential Library and online archives will go live in October this year.

Wallis died in 1986 but her estate was wound up over a number of years and was subject to lawsuits. The 1998 New York auction of her personal belongings was subject to lawsuits at which Clinton gave testimony for the Truman lawyers.

That, too, is to be in the book apparently.
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SemperEadem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-24-04 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. Wallis Simpson never had children with Windsor
Edited on Sat Apr-24-04 03:02 PM by SemperEadem
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wallis_Simpson

The British Royal Family never accepted the duchess and would not receive her formally, although the former king sometimes met his mother and brother after his abdication. The couple lived in Neuilly, near Paris, for most of the remainder of their lives. They were neighbours and soon became close friends of Oswald and Diana Mosley. They had no children, though the duchess briefly was a stepmother by her marriage to Ernest Simpson, who had a daughter by his first wife.

(snip)

There have been rumors of pregnancy and abortion, but no hard evidence that the duchess became pregnant by any of her lovers or her three husbands. The aforementioned Vanity Fair article included the comments of a doctor who, after examining old X-rays of the rough-hewn, raspy-voiced duchess, stated that she likely suffered from androgen insensitivity syndrome, also known as testicular feminization. (Rumors of abnormal genitalia date to a dossier compiled at the start of her relationship with Edward VIII.)
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DifferentStrokes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-04 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. The only connections to the Trumans
Edited on Sun Apr-25-04 11:37 AM by DifferentStrokes
would be in the names of the wives. I can't find any evidence that the two families are related.

Harry Truman had a stillborn sibiling and a brother, Vivian John, who produced no children. His sister also appeared to be childless-no husband is mentioned either.

http://users.legacyfamilytree.com/USPresidents/6725.htm

Harry Truman's daughter, Margaret, however, managed to produce four sons with NY Times writer Clifton Daniel.

Where the names are similar is the maiden name of Truman's wife. She was born Elizabeth Virginia Wallace.

Elizabeth "Bess" Virginia Wallace
Bessie Wallis Warfield

Two women born across the country and probably not related at all. What they had in common was famous husbands.

I read a biography of Edward that said he and one brother never developed normally because of munps that they came down with in their early teens. No chance of him producing children.

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emad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-04 07:11 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. Re: Trumans
Vivian John Truman had a son, Gilbert Vivian Truman, born 26 June 1926. Check this in Oral Histories section of the President Harry S Truman Memorial Library and Museum.

Details of All Harry S's family are available there:

http://www.trumanlibrary.org /

Wallis (Bessie) Warfield named after her aunt Bessie Wallace Truman, Harry S's wife.

Captain Gilbert Vivian "Trump" Truman VC married to Margaret Wallace, a niece of George Wallace and close relative of the Merriman family.Captain G V Truman Murdered by the IRA in 1963 in the UK.

There is a memorial to him and his fellow officers at Bradenham Manor, Sauderton, Buckinghamshire.

Don't know what biog you read of Duke of Windsor. The medical stuff you poseted about him is laughable.

The daughter of the Duke and Duchess of Windsor's biography of Wallis contains extensive pictures/historical documents of President Kennedy's and Jackie's visit to them in Paris in May/June 1961, when he presented Wallis with the JFK Presidential Medal of Freedom. Pics and citation of this are to be included in the book. Also family pictures of Windsors with their daughter and the puppy JFK gave her as a present on that visit.

Pre-publication publicity about the forthcoming Wallis biog not yet available. Scheduled publication dat if 30 June 2004. UK.

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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-04 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #13
28. Gilbert Vivian Truman was still alive in 1980
GODDARD: Well, in the farm home were talking about the acreage is five point something. That was owned by Harry, the President, and then Harry in turn sold it to Gilbert and Harry A.

JOHNSON: Harry A. is the nephew of President Truman?

GODDARD: Yes. Harry A. and Gilbert, the two youngest sons of Vivian, bought that five point some tenths acres from Harry. The other seven point some tenths acres--there was a little less than thirteen acres total--was owned by Vivian and Louella. Now it is owned by the five children. The Truman Farm Home Foundation has already made the contract to purchase the five point acres and the old house from Harry and Gilbert. Then just as soon as we can get a meeting with them, were going to take an option on the other seven acres.

http://www.trumanlibrary.org/oralhist/goddard.htm
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emad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 06:57 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. Captain Gilbert Vivian "Trump" Truman VC died in the UK in 1963.
There is a military memorial to him at Bradenham Manor, Saunderton, Buckinghamshire depicting him playing a trumpet (he was a jazz musucian in his spare time)with his fellow officers. It is the site of an annual military ceremony on November 11th when his acheivements are commemorated.

His survising son is Professor Sir Ian Truman, clinical psychiatrist and a leading authority on the psychopathology of criminal cults. He owns Bradenham Manor. The adjoining land/grounds are administered by the National Trust.

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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 08:51 AM
Response to Reply #29
44. So now you're saying the Truman Library is lying?
Then why do you tell other people to get information from them?

The only grandsons of Vivan Truman with a surname of 'Truman' are John and Gilbert, sons of John Curtis Truman and Mary Higbee.

TRUMAN: He got Washington fever. But he was young. He got over it. But we had the one son and then we had three daughters, and then we had another son and also another daughter. We were the only ones that had sons in the Truman family. J.s brothers who live on the farm in Louisburg have daughters. Harry has three and Gilbert has one, and then his brother Fred didnt have any children. And his sister, Martha Ann, had a son, Karl, but their name is Swoyer. So we thought all our hopes to carry on the family name were pinned on John for a while, and then we got Gilbert
http://www.nps.gov/hstr/OHP/truman_m/truman_m_interview...

There is no record of anyone called 'Truman' receiving the Victoria Cross.
http://www.victoriacross.net/letter.asp?letter=T

Bradenham Manor is owned by the accountants Grant Thornton, as a training and conference centre. You can hold your wedding there!
http://www.bradenham.grant-thornton.co.uk/pages/how_we_...

Marlborough House, on the other hand, was a royal residence, placed at the disposal of the British government for commonwealth purposes in the 1960s.
http://www.thecommonwealth.org/Templates/Internal.asp?N...

What's Lady Truman's first name? What does she do for the UN?
Where is Professor Sir Ian Truman's chair? What has he published?

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emad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #44
46. No, but you are.
Captain G V "Trump" Truman VC, born 26 June 1926. Died 1963.
Only surviving son is Professor Sir Ian Truman.

The UK Ministry of Defence and the Pentagon hold records of all non-UK recipients of the Victoria Cross. Some are classified, including those Americans who won them during covert UN operations in the 1980s. For instance, severaql members of the Merriman family.

The link you cite is not official MoD site.

Bradenham is merely leased from Prof Sir Ian Truman. The military memorial to his father Captain G V "Trump" Truman is located nearby.

Other properties owned by him and his wife are The Holme, Inner Circle, Regents Park, NW1; St John's Lodge, Inner Circle, Regent's Park, London NW1; Hanover Lodge, Outer Circle, Regents Park, London NW1.

Marlborough House is owned by the Trumans who paid for its lengthy restoration privately, and occasionally lease it out for Commonwealth functions. Government funds paid for some external restorations.The Commonwealth Secretariat used to have an office there.

The Trumans' eldest son, David Truman, is Governor General of the Commonwealth. The ownership of Marlborog=ugh House, and some 10 acres of surrounding St James's, passed to David Truman in mid-1997. His ownership of this is held personally and not via the Truman Trust.

In April 1992 the Trumans hosted a reception for John Major, the day after he won the general election, at Marlborough House, at which Bill and Hillary Clinton were the guests of honour. Clinton subsequently provided testimony for Trumans' lawyers when they sued over Wallis's copyrighted legacy, hence pictures of them at this reception are included in the forthcoming biog of Wallis.

Professor Sir Ian Truman's wife's name is Mary. She is Head of Military Intelligence at the UN Security Council and holds the rank of General. She is also a writer/author, artist/sculptor - she cast in bronze the memorial statues to Captain G V "Trump" Truman at the Bradenham memorial. She is also accredited for much of the building design of the mid-1980s redevelopment of TriBeCa in NY, a plot of land owned and developed by the Trumans. She also designed in 1981 the re-vamped Queen Mary's Garden in the Inner Circle at Regents Park, opposite their two homes: The Holme and St John's Lodge.

Professor Sir Ian Truman lectured at New York University from 1983 onwards. He is a fully qualified doctor of medicine who graduated from University College of London Medical School in the late 1970s and then specialised in clinical psychiatry.

He is published in the British Journal of Clinical Psychiatry and is a Fellow of the Royal College of Psychiatrists. His eldest daughter Megan Truman Tucker is also a doctor, a consultant paeditrician, and works in West Sussex. Her husband is a US national and works in the UK and US as a plastic surgeon.

The younger Truman daughters Catherine and Martha are medical students at University in the UK, and are also aiming to specialise in clinical psychiatry, possibly paediatric psychiatry. Joseph Truman is an officer cadet in the RAF.

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GemMom Donating Member (281 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #13
54. Check your "facts"?
Oral History with Fred J. Truman - 1991

On Page 10 of the Oral Histories, Fred J. Truman says in referencing his siblings: "Harry, Harry Arnold. He and Gilbert - Gilbert's the youngest - they live down at Louisberg, Kansas."

(This was in 1991. Somehow that doesn't jibe with your mention of a Capt. GV Truman being murdered by the IRA in 1963.)

On Page 11 of the Oral Histories, Fred J. Truman says that Gilbert was (and I quote): "Of course, Gilbert, when Harry went to the service, was 1-A or something, or 4-A, or whatever it is, and they wouldn't take him, so he stayed here and traded cattle. "

So Gilbert was never in the military.
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emad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #54
56. The youngest Gilbert Vivian born 26 June 1926.
Died 1963.
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GemMom Donating Member (281 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #56
57. His own brother Fred
says he's alive, as of 1991!
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emad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-29-04 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #57
63. There's a picture of the Trumans at Fred Truman's funeral
in the forthcoming Wallis book.
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GemMom Donating Member (281 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #56
59. More facts from the Oral Histories at the Truman Library
Oral History Interview with Sterling E. Goddard
Longtime acquaintance of the Truman family; mortician in Grandview, 1952 to the present; past President of the Grandview Chamber of Commerce; President, Harry S. Truman Farm Home Foundation, 1980-.


December 3, 1980


JOHNSON: One of the things were interested in is any artifacts used on the Truman farm especially in this early period. Are you aware of anything that still exists that perhaps was used on the Truman farm, either as an implement or for other purposes?


GODDARD: Not that I know of, unless it would be that Harry and Gilbert would have it down at Louisburg.


Ok, so as of 1980, Sterling E. Goddard is referring to Gilbert in the PRESENT tense - i.e. he's still alive.

As of 1980,

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emad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-29-04 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #59
62. Harry S Truman and Harry A Truman: notice any difference?
Gilbert Truman and Gilbert Vivian Truman: ditto.
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emad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-04 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #11
16. Re: Margaret Truman Daniel, crime writer
Margaret Truman is the first cousin of Professor Sir Ian Truman. The two familes socialise extensively. Both have contributed documents and financial support to the President Harry S Truman Memorial Library and Museum which is accessible online.

Margarter Truman Daniel's correspondence/photographs are also to be published in the official Wallis biography.

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emad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-04 07:24 AM
Response to Reply #10
14. Your wikipedia stuff is laughable. Especially the medical crap.
The Windsor's daughter is married to Professor Sir Ian Truman, only surviving son of Captain G V "Trump" Truman and Margaret Wallace. They have six children and numerous grandchildren.

They own the mansion in DeWitt Clinton Park in NY, inter alia. Also Marlborough House, and adjoining 10 acres of residential property in London's St James's. Marlborough House is occasionally leased out to the Commonwealth Secretariat for state functions. It's ownership changed hands in 1997 when the couple's eldest son David Truman became its owner. He is also Governor General of the Commonwealth.

The Trumans also own The Holme and St John's Lodge in Regent's Park Inner Circle, as well as Hanover Lodge in the Outer Circle, Regent's Park, just opposite Winfield House, the official residency of the US Ambassador.

Their official country residence in in West Sussex in a village called Small Dole, where they own a Jacobean mansion with early 13th century origins. Their Eldest son lives in a neighbouring property Streatham Hall, and their eldest daughter, Megan Truman Tucker, lives nearby in the village of Oreham.

The only OFFICIAL biography of Wallis is to be published in the UK next month. Among the photographs to be included are the Truman's wedding pictures, taken in St Geoprge's Chapel, Windsor Castle in December 1971. Harry S Truman is there with his wife.

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jdj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-04 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #10
19. Natalie Angier mentioned Wallace Simpson in her book
"Woman: An Intimate Geography" as far as the assertion about AIS but it is only speculation based on physical characteristics:

"Good skin, great hair, full breasts, tall stature- and a strapping immune system...because testosterone can suppress immune cells. A number of models and actresses have androgen insensitivity syndrome. Wallace Simpson, the spirited divorcee for whom King Edward abdicated his throne, may well have been an AIS woman." p.35.

So any woman who is tall and good looking may be an AIS person. The bare bones of it organ-wise is that the external genitalia is female, but internally, no uterus or fallopian tubes, instead there may be testes. The baby ends up with sort of an XXY chromosome configuration instead of XX or XY.

So Simpson may have had this and may have been sterile, but there is no proof.
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emad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-04 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. All the medical stuff written about her is crap. For many years
the Catholic church has waged a flame war against her and her family. The sexuality stuff is a good example of this.

Wallis was a normal woman who inspired generations of spite and loathing because of her most famous marriage.

The JFK Presidential Medal of Freedom citation speaks volumes about the covert war work she did against the Nazi, for which she still continues to be smeared by the BFEE.

The Official Biography is going to make riveting reading.

Pity that some DU apologists for Nazism/Catholoicism/denial of reality can't get their teeny heads round this one.

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jdj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-04 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #20
24. I've felt there was some spite in it.
But AIS women are knock-outs. And Angier is not at all spiteful, she treats the subject matter very respectfully.

Tyra Banks would be an example of someone who may be AIS. Large breasts because the hormone that limits breast growth is not present in AIS women (Tyra's are real, apparently). But many models have children eventually, and if Tyra does then that will disprove it.

I wouldn't mind being AIS actually. No periods, ever.

PBS did a great documentary on the British royals which they show periodically, and they implied that Simpson was a nazi sympathizer.
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emad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 06:59 AM
Response to Reply #24
30. Re: periods. I will make a point of checking whether the
Edited on Tue Apr-27-04 06:59 AM by emad aisat sana
forthcoming biography of Wallis discusses her menstrual cycle!
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Scairp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-04 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #6
26. Where are you getting this stuff?
They NEVER HAD ANY CHILDREN AT ALL. If some woman is claiming to be their child then she is a fraud. Wallis Simpson never had any children with anyone.
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emad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 07:03 AM
Response to Reply #26
32. You can write to the curators of the Truman Library/Museum
and ask for all the private records they hold on Wallis's daughter's marriage to the only surviving son of Captain G V "Trump" Truman VC: Professor Sir Ian Truman. And about their own children and grandchildren.

Otherwise wait for the official biography that her daughter has written, to be published by the Truman Trust on 30 June 2004 in the UK. US publication date to follow, provisionally 1 September 2004.
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Scairp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-04 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #6
27. You need to rethink this claim...
There are no children of Wallis Simpson and Edward. I have no idea what has caused you to believe this but it is patently false.
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emad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 07:08 AM
Response to Reply #27
33. Try telling that to Bill and Hillary Clinton! They feature prominently
in the forthcoming official biography about Wallis, written by her daughter. Clinton stayed with them about six times in their UK homes during his presidency. He also provided testimony in a series of lawsuits after Wallis's death in 1986, when her daughter and son in law successfully sued in the US and UK courts regarding copyright of her personal as well as historical documents.

The galley pages of the biog that I have seen are full of photographs of the Clintons at parties hosted by the Trumans (Wallis's daughter is maried to a Truman).

The only politicians that were not invited were the Bushes. And, later Al Gore. But that's another story...
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Vladimir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-04 10:30 AM
Response to Original message
23. One rich bastard marries another
meanwhile, I wonder why more people don't appreciate the great inventions and achievments of the French Revolution :evilgrin:
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dryan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-26-04 10:42 AM
Response to Original message
25. Thought Duchess couldn't have children
I have read several books on the Windsors and it is a well-known fact that the duchess had some sort of medical problem and couldn't have children. There was even a very nasty rumor that she had contracted a social disease when she lived in the orient.
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emad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 07:00 AM
Response to Reply #25
31. All kinds of crap writen about her, chiefly by Queen Nother's
fan club.

The official biography won't do much for the old Bowes Lyon reputation...
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bleedingheart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 07:25 AM
Response to Reply #25
34. I found this link through google...
http://we3.org/newsarticles.html

but it doesn't appear the woman is married or related to a Truman...and it could be a ruse...
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 07:42 AM
Response to Reply #34
35. Good find.....
But there's nothing about the forthcoming "official biography". And you'll note that the "lost royal" doubts that DNA tests would prove her claim. Growing up in Ohio, she always knew she was "different".

Interesting that there are no links anywhere about the upcoming biography.


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emad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 07:54 AM
Response to Reply #35
37. Wallis's biography to be published by The Truman Trust in the
UK, June 30 2004.

Harry S Truman Memorial Library and Museum may have details of the US publication date, which is provisionally scheduled for 1 September.

Curator of the Museum replies to letters written to him requesting information for research purposes.

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emad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 07:50 AM
Response to Reply #34
36. That's not her. The article is one of many that the Trumans sued
over.

Wallis's daughter is dark haired and approx 46 years old. Her husband is 50.

There are official portraits of them at Marlborough House, an 18th century palace in London's St James's, which the family restored, own and occasionally lend out for Commonwealth functions.

Marlborough House is not generally open to the public but can be visited by appointment.

The President Harry S Truman Library and Museum hold pictures/documents on them which are not accessible online, but you can write to the curator of the museum who usually reolies to bona fide researchers. Try it.
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Scairp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 07:56 AM
Response to Reply #36
38. 46??
Riiight. Wallis Simpson was forty years old when she finally married Edward. That was 1936. Do the math genuis. This person you are discussing is three years younger than my husband and he was born in 1954. How could Wallis Simpson have had a child at the age of 61??
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emad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 07:58 AM
Response to Reply #38
39. Yes. First known case of test tube baby. That one is also
in the biog, including medical records, surrogate mother, the works.
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Scairp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 07:59 AM
Response to Reply #39
40. No one else has said this, so I must
Edited on Tue Apr-27-04 08:02 AM by Scairp
You're a wacko. And now on ignore. You should be honored. You're my very first ignored poster.
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emad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 08:02 AM
Response to Reply #40
41. Flattery will get you nowhere!
May I recommend you actually write to the Truman Library/Museum and request the information.

Trumans hold the copyright on photographs/historical documents but the Library/Museum responds to bona fide researchers.
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 08:16 AM
Response to Reply #40
42. You've got the wrong attitude!
Join the fantasy.

The "child of royalty" being reared by the wrong people is a recurring theme.

Dark secrets that are never on the web is another. You'd think there were sites to cover all the crackpot schemes ever conceived. How original to keep coming up with new ones! If you don't wish to write a letter asking silly questions, it's your fault.

Note, also the really upper-class references. Stately homes, aristocrats with silly nicknames, all those details distinguish these stories from the "common" gossip about who's boffing Beckham.







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emad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 08:30 AM
Response to Reply #42
43. The chip on your shoulder is your problem not mine.
All the references to the Trumans are correct.

They hold the copyright on all the Wallis material and have sued everyone infringeing their rights.

Professor Sir Ian Truman is a Fellow of the Royal College of Psychiatrists in London and the US equivalent. He is much published on his specialised subject.

Not everything on the super rich is archived online. Many guard their privacy to protect their families.

I guess the Trumans have been waiting a long time to pick the moment to publish the only official biography of Wallis. She is certainly a controversial character whose real life is even more extraordinary than previously discussed in the public domain.

Maybe it's a question of it's not what you know but who you know.

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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #43
45. Are they suing you, emad?
After all, you seem to be handing out all this information they've kept so secret all these years.

Why are you accusing the Truman Library of lying?
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emad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #45
47. I have worked on the editorial of the Wallis biography but am
Edited on Tue Apr-27-04 10:03 AM by emad aisat sana
NOT being sued. I know the family well but wouldn't steal their thunder. Looking forward to seeing the book out in print later this summer.

You have not accessed the right stuff on Captain G V "Trump" Truman. He was born 26 June 1926. The Truman library gives out information about him and his military career in reply to writen requests only.

Re Gilbert Vivian Truman:

TRUMAN: J.C., that would be John Curtis, and my sister Callie Louise, his twin, who is dead, were born August 20, 1912. Then Martha Ann, I believe, was born on January 31, 1918. I'm not sure about that. Harry was born on September 18, 1923, I believe. Gilbert Vivian was born June 26, 1926.

http://www.trumanlibrary.org/oralhist/trumanfl.htm

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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #47
49. Why do you bother continuing, emad?
Your own links (see post #28) prove you are lying. You concoct a fantasy, and then claim you're not stealing the family's thunder, when you casually claim Wallis Simpson had the world's first test tube baby in the 1950s. All you can do in reply is repeat the birthdate of Gilbert Truman. Emad, if I said the Sun came up in the east this morning, it wouldn't prove that I'm the Queen of Sheba. Stating one fact doesn't make 26 lies true.

This particular story has so many holes in it by now, you'll never stop it sinking. Start working on a new one, without damaging your credibility even more. Sometimes you can be entertaining, but you need to know when to stop. Even David Icke knows that.

I'd write to "The Truman Trust", and tell them you're spilling their secrets, so that they'd sue you, except they don't exist.
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emad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 08:00 AM
Response to Reply #49
50. Fortunately I have nothing to prove to you. Your agenda is not
my agenda. I shall enjoy watching you eat crow when the book is published.

You have called me a liar and rubbished my posting. I will make a point of archiving this and posting it up when the Wallis book is published and the website is launched. Others will then be able to make up their own minds about you and your own credibility.

There are no holes in my posting as you claim. The only holes are the ones that exist in your own ego.

Re Gilbert Vivian Truman:

TRUMAN: J.C., that would be John Curtis, and my sister Callie Louise, his twin, who is dead, were born August 20, 1912. Then Martha Ann, I believe, was born on January 31, 1918. I'm not sure about that. Harry was born on September 18, 1923, I believe. Gilbert Vivian was born June 26, 1926.

http://www.trumanlibrary.org/oralhist/trumanfl.htm

Post #28 is yours. Harry A Truman is not Harry S Truman. Gilbert Truman is not Gilbert Vivian Truman.

I am sure your observations would amuse the Trumans, particularly as the biography contains all Wallis's medical records, including her three miscarriages and the recorded deaths/stillbirths of the first two infants conceived as test tube babies (1947 and 1955) I believe. Also correspondence with the doctors who succeeded in finding the surrogate who eventually gave birth to the Duke and Duchess's daughter Mary.

I am not surprised you haven't been able to find internet stuff on her. The family holds sole copyright and defends its legal ownership assiduously.

The Truman Trust is a private charity registered in the US and the UK. David Truman is it's principal trustee. It's funding record of social and medical projects worldwide is available in reply to written requests. It's extensive contributions to the Democratic Party presidential campaigns 1992-1996 and 1996-2000 are also a matter of public record.

The Truman children are registered voters in London and West Sussex.

The Truman's ownership of properties in London and New York's DeWitt Clinton Park is also matter of public record.

When I need advice on how to conduct myself on DU I will let you know. In the meantime I am looking forward to the last editorial meeting when the final dust jacket of the book is unveiled.






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Cassandra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #50
53. Any explanation...
of why, in 1978, when Louise Brown was announced as the world's first test tube baby, that no one challenged that? Lives there a doctor so skilled, but with so small an ego, that he wouldn't have wanted to take credit for the same work done 20 years earlier? Am I wondering why I'm bothering to respond to something so idiotic? Yes.
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emad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #53
55. Wallis's family is immensely secretive. There had been
countless attempts on her life as well as that of her daughter. Her family resisted publishing the full story since her death in 1986 for mainly security/legal/UK constitutional reasons.

The Trumans are immensely wealthy and have gone to extraordinary lengths to protect their anonimity. A lot of their family legal business is protected by the UK Official Secrets Act.

The medical documents in the forthcoming Wallis biog go into all the surrogacy stuff in detail. I believe this was also because the surrogate mother made it a condition of the pregnancy not to be named until a safe period of time had elapsed after her own death. The doctors involved also stipulated similar secrecy clauses.

I am unable to quote verbatim because anyone who has worked on the editorial has had to sign draconian confidentiality contracts. But I will post when the pre-publicity blurb is released and the website up and running.
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Cassandra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #55
60. A friend of mine is a royalty expert
and will certainly be looking forward to any shred of proof you can put forward (and it better be worthwhile).
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emad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-29-04 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #60
61. Great! Here's one your pal might be interested in:
Lady Rose Windsor, daughter of Duke & Duchess of Gloucester, is the god daughter of Wallis's daughter Mary.

She is getting married later in June this year and the wedding is being held at Kensington Palace. The Trumans are among the invited guests and are coming en famille. The will be pics in the press.

And another one: Cornellia Guest, Wallis's own god-daughter, has contributed parts of a chapter in the forthcoming official Wallis biography, including pictures never previously released taken in two years before her death in 1986, at the Truman's New York home at DeWitt Clinton Park.
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-27-04 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #43
48. What chip?
I find this all highly amusing.

And I'm so very impressed by the rarefied circles in which you move.

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emad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 08:11 AM
Response to Reply #48
51. I've looked back at archived DU postings where you have
rubbished what I have said and find that you are a sad apologist for sex abuse of children by the Catholic church, and in denial of proven material about Irish terrorism, particularly that funded by US nationals. Your bitterness is pretty unpalatable and is frequently compounded by personal attacks when you are cornered. As for your sense of humour, I rate it below the zero band.

My own, personal work speciality was for many years the reporting of fraud and corruption in banking and finance, particularly in the Middle East. Along with other journalists I testified to the Morgenthau investigation that led to the closure of BCCI in NY in 1990/1991 and have posted extensively on this. Likewise on my participation in the London BCCI class action currently in the High Court. I am a published author in this field of journalism.

My knowledge of the Wallis official biography comes from working on the editorial and cross checking index references to US banks and financial institutions mentioned in lawsuit material in the book. My personal knowledge of the Truman family comes from editorial meetings and editing of the personal/family papers and documents they are about to publish.

So sorry that my world is not you world, but then, So What?



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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #51
58. Alas, you've found me out.
Edited on Wed Apr-28-04 03:05 PM by Bridget Burke
I'm the illegitimate grandaughter of Michael Collins.

Details to be available soon. For now, it's all hush hush!


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emad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-29-04 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #58
64. Sounds like that's the very least of your problems.
Let me repeat what I told your chum Muriel Voncrapper: I will archive this post and re post it - for your delectation! - when then official Wallis biography is published and the website launched.

Why any alleged Democrats should feel threatened by what the biography might/might not contain is not my problem, but it does speak volumes, considering the immense financial support she and the Duke gave in their lifetimes to the Democrat party.

That their wills have never been made public, nor their personal correspondece/legal documents concerning Presidents Roosevelt/Truman/Eisenhower/Kennedy/Johnson, etc al is a matter of major public interest and it is significant that the Trumans have chosen 2004 as the year to place these papers into the public domain.

That they should chose to add the legal documents of their sucessful lawsuits against Ronald Reagan, Bush 1 and 2 - in particular relating to Bush 1's meddling post-1986 into matters concerning Wallis's legacy to her daughter of assets owned in the US - is also of great significance, if you consider the re-election of Bush 2 into the White House the nastiest thing that could happen to America since Ronald Reagan got re elected in '84.

I understand the Trumans have been at great pains to shield their immense wealth in the US and the number of attempts, chiefly by the BFEE and the Catholic Church, to appropriate it through crime. Like the majority of the US super rich who eclipse Bill Gates and the other mega bucks billionaires like him, they have gone to huge lengths to protect their anonimity.

The choice of June 2004 to finally bring all this into the public domain is not insignificant.
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-29-04 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #64
66. If everything you say is true, aren't you betraying a trust?
Most books are marketed with much advance press. "At last, the true story can be told." "What the butler saw." etc.

It appears those behind the hypothetical volume have chosen deepest secrecy as a marketing strategy. Not a clue, not a hint, not a word to be found.

Except for yours. (There goes their "anonimity".)

While we await publication, perhaps you could entertain us. In the past, you've told several amazing stories with no online confirmation yet available. Certainly, you can now supply the links that will prove the truth of your claims.


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emad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-29-04 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #66
68. I eagerly await the day when the pre-publicity announcements
are made and the accompanying website launched.

That the super-rich are notoriously reticent about their personal business is not exactly unusual. I hope I have not broken any real confidentiality clauses and look forward to being the first on DU to supply whatever online links will be made available.
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chenGOD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-28-04 09:29 AM
Response to Original message
52. Personally....
Who cares?
The stratification of the royalty/wealthy in Europe is one of the reasons that there are so many problems in Africa/Asia/South America.

If the royalty dropped off the face of the earth tomorrow, I think we'd all be better off for it.


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gauguin57 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-29-04 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #52
65. yeah, who cares?
While I agree with the "who cares" assessment of ANY royalty anywhere ... I think most royals are total freaking parasites ... I have to say this is one of the wackiest and most interesting threads I've seen in a long time. We start with a vague story about something weird about a former Dutch royal's wedding, and we're into Wallis Simpson's hormone levels! WOW!
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-29-04 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #65
67. and it keeps getting bumped...it's from SATURDAY!! LOL
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