‘Bundlers’ for Obama Have Active Ties to Lobbying

[alp227]

Source: NY Times

Despite a pledge not to take money from lobbyists, President Obama has relied on prominent supporters who are active in the lobbying industry to raise millions of dollars for his re-election bid.

At least 15 of Mr. Obama’s “bundlers” — supporters who contribute their own money to his campaign and solicit it from others — are involved in lobbying for Washington consulting shops or private companies. They have raised more than $5 million so far for the campaign.

Because the bundlers are not registered as lobbyists with the Senate, the Obama campaign has managed to avoid running afoul of its self-imposed ban on taking money from lobbyists.

But registered or not, the bundlers are in many ways indistinguishable from people who fit the technical definition of a lobbyist. They glide easily through the corridors of power in Washington, with a number of them hosting Mr. Obama at fund-raisers while also visiting the White House on policy matters and official business.

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/28/us/politics/obama-bun...

[msongs]

1. raise your hand if this surprises you lol nt

[SkyDaddy7]

43. Elizabeth Warren takes money directly from Corporate Lobbyist...

Does that surprise anyone??

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/us_politics/view.bg?ar...



I LOVE Elizabeth Warren but I am not going to act like this is a bad thing when it takes money to change the system! The same applies to Obama as well but like all things Obama most here complaining will give Warren a pass 7 just focus on bashing Obama.

[Le Taz Hot]

53. As per your OWN ARTICLE:

U.S. Senate hopeful Elizabeth Warren, who has blasted high-powered lobbyists for General Electric while campaigning as a champion of the middle class, took $1,000 from well-known lobbyist Robert Raben, whose company lobbied for GE from 2003 to 2010.

AND THEN THIS:

Warren made GE a top target from the beginning of her campaign, saying in her announcement video that the company “pays nothing in taxes” and exploits tax loopholes snuck in by their lobbyists.

FOLLOWED BY THE REPUBLICAN TALKING POINT WHICH YOU JUST MIMICKED:

“I like Robert a lot, and he’s a very good lobbyist, but Elizabeth Warren can’t have it both ways,” said John Feehery, a Republican consultant based in Washington, D.C.

So, she took $1,000, what amounts to a day's lunch money for these guys, and she STILL pummeled G.M. but the Republicans thank you for carrying their talking point for them. It appears you now have two buckets of water to carry.

[dotymed]

56. The linked article states that Warren took a $1000

donation from a man who works for a company that lobbied for GE until 2010.
How far can obambots stretch the truth?

At this point in time, I may "hold my nose" and vote for Obama as the lesser of two evils. But this must change, including party before people.

[Maven]

94. One donation from one individual versus MILLIONS bundled by professional bribery artists?

You should be embarrassed.

[jefferson_dem]

2. Like ZOMG!11!1(ones)... Fundraisers for political candidate may actually want to influence policy?!

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo...

[Skittles]

4. change we can believe in

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[jefferson_dem]

5. "How's That Hopey-Changey Stuff Working Out For Ya?"

Here - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Y02iZcTjHo&feature=resu...

You can even grab a snarky bumpter sticker.

[Divernan]

38. Mr. Kotter! Mr. Kotter! Circle D is moving the goal posts!

You are too much! I'm laughin' at your post. Trying to equate demanding openness and honesty makes an Obama critic a Sarah Palin supporter! Wow! Gettin' pretty desperate, kiddo!

[jefferson_dem]

40. I was responding to the poster's echoing of Palin's famously pedestrian snark.

I didn't accuse the poster of being a Palin supporter, silly.

"Circle D"? Ha. It's no wonder you would claim offense.

[Beacool]

61. Well, even a broken clock is correct twice a day.

[Fuddnik]

59. Revised: Change We Can Make Believe In.

"Everybody knows there ain't no sanity clause".

The Marx Brothers

[frylock]

8. despite a pledge not to take money from lobbyists

[Name removed]

95. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ProSense]

3. These

articles always end up being about lobbyists whining.

<...>

As a matter of policy, Mr. Obama’s re-election campaign goes beyond what campaign law requires by refusing contributions from any “individual registered as a federal lobbyist.” Registered lobbyists are not even allowed inside his fund-raising events, and the campaign routinely returns checks from those trying to contribute...“Obama will not take money from registered lobbyists like me,” the lobbyist said with some bitterness, “but that doesn’t mean that he won’t take money from people who are lobbying. There’s a big difference.”

[DissedByBush]

7. Hehe, "Obama spurs growth of new industry"

The unregistered lobbyist.

Whether your name is on the registration sheet decides whether you can funnel millions to his campaign.

Even if you're representing the same corporation as the registered lobbyist.

[No Elephants]

15. Maybe that's part of his job creation plan.

[kimsarah]

18. That's what I thought too

I hear the Dodd-Frank law is also creating lots of new jobs -- in the $90,000 to $100,000-plus range on Wall Street for stooges to help banksters comply with new reporting requirements.

How many times have you heard someone spout that "Jobs" is the issue.
Then how often do you hear anybody explain what kind of (good) jobs we need?

[No Elephants]

21. I intended that as a joke, but I like your points. Have some ideas off the top of my head.

Seems as though we could use new trainers for the cops to figure out how to treat peaceful demonstrator occupiers, for one thing.

Great teachers and people who think up new ways to teach kids.

People to figure out ways to keep lobbyists and their corporate "person" bosses from controllling the kleptocracy.

Abd so on.

I know we have political think tanks, but all they seem to be thinking about is more ways to make the 1% happier.

Belated welcome to DU.

[SoapBox]

6. Here's hoping that the OWS Movement, will spur a new party...

And that we can do, from bottom to top, what the T.ThugBaggers have been doing...taking over
any and all elected positions, to control for the 1%.

Time for the 99% to take back America.

[No Elephants]

16. Wonder how long it takes for a new political party to become corrupt?

[rasputin1952]

44. In all honesty, it's corrupt before it even begins...

Once one takes cash from another, there is an obligation accrued. Few, if any of us, are pristine, we all want gain, (albeit for various purposes).

[Bluenorthwest]

68. There is much territory between pristine and corrupt, man.

This idea that raging corruption should be accepted because no one is 'pristine' is interesting. Do you apply that thinking to other areas of law and justice? Who are we to question murderers, we are not pristine ourselves, and only perfection can call out crime,is that really workable?

[No Elephants]

76. Funny. I gave cash--well several credit card payments--to Obama and I am not

seeing any evidence that an obligation has accrued in my favor, not me personally and not anyone who thinks similarly to me.

In fact, people like Rahm and Gibbs don't seem to think we're even entitled to hypocritical civility.

Buddy Roemer will not take corporate money and will not take more than $100 from any donor. He will lose, of course. He does not even have enough money to make it into the debates.

[loyalsister]

9. Yeh

That would include Planned Parenthood supporters who have written to their legislators. Trial lawyers association, union lobbyists, and any number of grassroots advocacy organizations across the country. And, any of us who have donated and written congress.
Context is useful.

Much like "earmarks," "lobbyist" has become a dirty word that has been misrepresented so that it can be used against good causes.

[truthisfreedom]

10. Seriously, how the f*ck is he supposed to win if he can't raise money using all methods?

We're at war here, folks. Screw his methods. The alternative is unthinkable. Keep your eyes on the prize. We need to get the money out of politics. The money is the problem.

[Jackpine Radical]

11. Money is the problem, and in the meantime

unilateral disarmament is not a viable solution.

[SkyDaddy7]

48. Even Elizabeth Warren is taking lobbyist money!

It takes money to change things in a political system based on MONEY!

I love Elizabeth Warren & I could care less where the money comes from because I know what she is about & I trust her...The same applies for President Obama!

http://news.bostonherald.com/news/us_politics/view/2011...

What bothers me is how so many blame Obama for doing what many other Liberal do running for office. And even the when it comes to legislation...Obama gets 100% of the blame for health care reform despite the fact folks like Dennis Kucinich & Nancy Pelosi & many others supported it without a PO. The Bush Tax Cut extension could have been blocked if only Pelosi had refused it to be voted on but again only Obama got blamed.

And closing GITMO...Obama tried twice only to be see almost every Democrat in office turn their backs on him but again only Obama gets blamed.

[Le Taz Hot]

54. Elizabeth Warren took $1,000

from A lobbyist from G.E. where she then whooped ass on G.E. (and others). A thousand dollars from a corproate lobbyist is pocket change. You do know, don't you, that your meme is identical to the Republicans', right?

[Divernan]

78. And DU rationalizes taking ad $$$ from GOP candidates

When I complained that DU was running ads from the uber conservative GOP candidate for County Executive in my county, my complaint was dismissed with the rationale that if DU takes their money, they won't spend it somewhere else.

[Beacool]

62. Yes, but Obama is a hypocrite for berating candidates who took lobbyist's money in 2008.

This is also the candidate who received more Wall Street money.

So it's fair to call him on it.

[Divernan]

79. Absolutely!

[GoCubsGo]

58. Exactly right.

I am amazed that so many people here don't seem to understand that.

[No Elephants]

88. Meantime until what? Capitalism ends? We go to a barter system?

We pass a Constitutional amendment saying "With all due respect to the Roberts court, money really is not speech?"

(Hint: that amendment will not pass in your lifetime.)

[UnrepentantLiberal]

12. What Obama has done was unthinkable to me in 2008.

Romney vs. Obama is going to be a truly inspiring election.

[No Elephants]

84. If Romney puts his hands on Obama, though, the Secret Service will decide the election.

[No Elephants]

14. And so the thing is to relate to money the same way the side we hate does?

[truthisfreedom]

26. No. The thing to do is eliminate the money in politics. Soon.

Not yet, but soon.

[Divernan]

33. When is a lobbyist for Obama not a lobbyist? When they operate undercover,

i.e., they unregister and continue to raise money via bundling.

I agree that given our current laws, politicians will rely on representatives of private interest groups. It is just particularly offensive when said politicians lie and say they are NOT relying on said special interests.

Here's a really shocking thought! A politician could honestly admit he or she IS taking money from lobbyists, but say this does not make for honest government and that the system should be changed and that they (the politicians) will work to change it.

I could not BELIEVE it when an Obama fundraiser called me and ecstatically claimed how wonderful it was that Obama was not taking a single cent of corporate money for this campaign.

[No Elephants]

87. No, a lobbyist is never a lobbyist when it's Obama to whom they are donating.

When they donate to Romney, it will be reprehensible.

[No Elephants]

86. Soon? LOL! Good luck getting a Constitutional amendment passed soon.

The only way you are going to eliminate the money from politics in this lifetime is by holding the candidates accountable. Especially when they have made promises, but all candidates.

But only some of us want to do that. Others seem to think Obama should never be accountable to anyone for anything. If he crosses a line, we all just move the line and pretend it was always there.

[jefferson_dem]

37. A hint: Some here don't want him to win.

[Divernan]

39. A hint: Some here want him to be honest.

[jefferson_dem]

41. Right on cue.

I appreciate you serving as a prop for my point. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

[Divernan]

42. Honesty's the best policy.

[SkyDaddy7]

46. I guess Elizabeth Warren taking lobbyist money does not matter...

Funny how when Obama does something it is EVIL but any other darling all of us Liberals like who does the same thing it is ignored.

http://news.bostonherald.com/news/us_politics/view/2011...

[Occulus]

65. Warren hasn't yet betrayed the living fuck out of us after being elected.

OBAMA HAS. Countless times.

[No Elephants]

89. $1000 from a company she's fought tooth and nail? Come on, now.

BTW, the Herald is a Murdoch rag. The Mass. Republican Party could have planted that story for all I know.

P.S. Elizabeth Warren seems to have integrity, but she is not my "darling." And I have no proof she is a liberal. She was a registered Republican at one point. I don't know when that was or how far her ideas have changed. I am hopeful, though.

[Beacool]

63. No, some here think that he was full of crap in 2008 and even more so now.

[DonCoquixote]

66. translation

Some wanted Hillary to win, so she could help move the party to the right.

BTW, congratulations your girl will probably secure that nice toxic pipeline from Canada.

Obama's problem is that he acts too much like Clinton; admittedly the best republican president we had (to quote moore).

[Beacool]

70. Obama is not more progressive than Hillary, that is a fallacy.

As for the pipeline, Obama will make the final decision. Or do you think that the State Department is going to go rogue and decide without his approval?

Please.........

[jefferson_dem]

67. Aww...

Let it go. Besides, we're on the same team now.

[Beacool]

71. Nope and not necessarily.

[jefferson_dem]

72. Your choice.

Enjoy the doldrums.

[Beacool]

74. Well, presidents come and presidents go.

This one will leave too.

[jefferson_dem]

77. Perhaps we'll start a "Repeal the 22nd Amendment" movement, for the sole purpose of tormenting you..

and the teabaggers.

[Beacool]

85. Nahhh..........

As usual, it's a choice of the least of two evils and the Tea Party nuts are down right scary.

[DonCoquixote]

97. Yep

Just like Bill did. Thank god he did not get to gut Medicare because he was too busy playing with interns.

http://firedoglake.com/2010/05/18/how-monica-lewinsky-s... /

Of course, we will see when she tries to primary Obama in 2012, thus making her "good friend" MCain happy.

[Beacool]

99. Are you kidding?????

Hillary is not going to primary Obama. You can relax........

[Democat]

80. Obama should refuse all money and just run naked!

Even wearing clothes would make him impure according to some on DU.

[No Elephants]

90. Are you familiar with The Emperor's New Clothes fable?

[defendandprotect]

13. Obama needs to stop selling himself and government to corporations/elites -- !!

[No Elephants]

17. An Obama bundler was involved in Solyndra.

Don't know if that helped Solyndra or not, though.

[kimsarah]

19. Yessiree

Steer clear of lobbyists!
From The Hill this week, "Obama campaign brings on ex-lobbyist as senior adviser"
http://thehill.com/business-a-lobbying/189357-obama-cam...

[No Elephants]

22. I know I must admire someone he hired since he was elected.

Let's see, there was Elizabeth Warren.

Not sure about her politics, but she seems loaded with integrity, and that's better than a crook who spouts liberal.

Must be someone else.

Can I get back to you on that?

[mahina]

20. Don't hate the playa

hate the game. It's a stink system. Hows about we change that, since Obama would have to have descended on clouds from heaven to have avoided lobbyists?

[No Elephants]

23. No playas, no game. Someone has to be the first to stop. And didn't he brag

last tiem that he was the one who would do that?

I still remember his story about the money order. Four dollars, was it?

Would the people who keep moving the line keep us posted on where it is anymore?

Thanks.

[mahina]

24. Maybe we can donate fairy dust

and a little glitter.

I've worked for clean elections and campaign finance in my state and nationally, and I don't think there is anything more important to our future.

Also, I understand reality in the present moment.

[No Elephants]

25. You forgot the pony. Sorry, your opinion does not = reality.

Thanks anyway.

[mahina]

27. Arguable

but you are welcome.

[No Elephants]

29. All matters of opinion are arguable. And it is very important to know the difference

between what is a matter of your opinion and what is objective reality. People who can identify that difference in each instance usually do better. So, you're welcome, too.

Maybe you can hold the glitter and fairy dust type comments next time.

They're not original, not impressive and not persuasive. So, unless your objective is to be insulting and annoying, they don't serve your purpose.''

And, if, by any chance, your objective IS to be insulting and annoying, I look forward to the next time you aim at me.

Aloha.

[mahina]

101. That word

does not mean what you think it means.

[Le Taz Hot]

55. And yet . . .

Meg Whitman outspent Brown by a 3:1 margin and Brown still kicked her corporate ass. Issa tried to buy a Senate seat here and that didn't work. Arianna Huffington's ex husband also tried to buy a Senate seat and that also didn't work. There are lots of examples of campaigns being grossly outspent by their opponents and STILL they win. The win becuase their ideas win not by how many times some politician's face is splattered all over their TV screens. This whole "by any means necessary/take no prisoners" type of politics is how the Democratic Party lost its soul.

[Bluenorthwest]

69. Yes indeed....

Nt

[No Elephants]

75. Apparently, everything Obama does is, by definition, the best thing .

any human being could possibly have done, given the "reality" of politics. There was/is nothing, I repeat, NOTHING else anyone could have done that would be better.

I guess that is supposed to be a realistic view!

[Democat]

81. The first to stop? Many have stopped taking money!

You have just never heard of them because they had no money to get their message out.

Obama can either play the big money game during the next election, or he can just give it to the Republicans right now and be done with it.

[No Elephants]

91. Never hearing of someone hardly applies to an incumbent President.

"Obama can either play the big money game during the next election, or he can just give it to the Republicans right now and be done with it."

If you could prove that, I'd be impressed.

People have seen Obama in action. And, as incumbent, he gets a lot of TV face time and other perks even money cannot buy in the U.S.

For example, his jobs tour gives him a lot of campaigning opportunities that are costing his campaign nothing because it is job related.

Do you really think the difference between spending half a billion or three quarters of a billion on tv ads will do the trick?


The only thing he needs to do is convince people he'll do better in his second term than Romney will do in his first term. If he can't do that during the debates (also free) the ball game will be over anyway, no matter how many ads he buys.

ETA: Please see Reply 31.

[stillrockin]

28. I am SHOCKED!

[pnwmom]

30. Not all lobbyists are created equal. The Sierra club uses lobbyists.

The teachers unions use lobbyists.

Are we against all lobbyists, no matter what they're lobbying for?

[Divernan]

32. Those organizations register their lobbyists and do not raise money off the books, so to speak.

You are really reaching to compare the Sierra Club's registered lobbyists who operate in the open, i.e, they actually register when they come to the White House, to Big Pharma's unregistered top level executives who run their corporation's lobbying efforts and hold $10,000 a head fund raisers in their back yards.

Several examples from the NYT article linked in the OP:

"Take Sally Susman. An executive at the drug-maker Pfizer, she has raised more than $500,000 for the president’s re-election and helped organize a $35,800-a-ticket dinner that Mr. Obama attended in Manhattan in June. At the same time, she leads Pfizer’s powerful lobbying shop, and she has visited the White House four times since 2009 — twice on export issues.

But under the byzantine rules that govern federal lobbying, Ms. Susman has not registered with the Senate as a lobbyist.

Nor has David L. Cohen, who oversees lobbying at the Comcast Corporation and is also a member of Mr. Obama’s exclusive $500,000 bundling club.

At a June fund-raiser in the backyard of his Philadelphia home, Mr. Cohen hosted the president and some 120 guests who paid at least $10,000 each to attend; Mr. Obama called Mr. Cohen and his wife “great friends.”

[pnwmom]

35. You know that for a fact? n/t

[Divernan]

36. Yes I do. You got any evidence to the contrary? Thought not.

For ten years I worked for a state legislature and met almost daily with lobbyists. I quickly learned which ones were operating on a shoe string and had nothing to offer but sound reasoning and factual support for the legislation they requested, and which ones lied through their teeth to misrepresent their profiteering clients and brought in the pre-drafted legislation in one hand and the campaign donation checks in the other hand. The bright dividing line was clearly between the charitable and public interest groups like Sierra Club and Planned Parenthood, and the profit-driven special interest groups representing either individual corporations or business interest groups.

Do you feel supporting Obama requires you to trash the Sierra Club, of which I am a member, and Planned Parenthood?

The topic of this thread is that Obama has played games to appear to reject lobbyists, but in reality is still taking money from the Big Interests' lobbying arms. We are against his holier-than-thou, hypocritical stance on lobbying.

No one has said that all lobbyists are bad, or the same.

[pnwmom]

45. I'm not trashing Sierra Club. I'm FOR the Sierra Club

lobbying in any legal way that it can. Same for the teachers unions, etc.

[Divernan]

82. Yet you demanded proof they were not raising money off the books

You clearly challenged me to provide proof that Sierra Club was not raising money off the books, i.e., in the shady manner Obama does, having his campaign people state he's not taking any corporate money. So don't try to spin your way out of it now.

[pnwmom]

96. No. I disagree with you that Obama in raising money in a shady way.

[Beacool]

73. Yep, Hillary made that point in 2008.

Ironically, the likes of Obama and Edwards berated her for taking lobbyist money. This is just a long list of Obama saying one thing while campaigning and another once he got in office.

Hypocrisy, much?

[No Elephants]

83. The short answer is "maybe" and the long answer would take more time than I care to

spend.

However, your point about not for profits is very easily handled by allowing only not for profits to lobby.

But I am leaning to, yes, I want no bananas and no lobbying.

Let everyone make their his, her, their or its case to all legislators at once by memos that are made public, not by cosy, secret deal making with a few key members.

Take the money, and the trips and the jobs for the kids out of entirely, whether it is the Rockefeller charitable foundation or the widows and orphans or the environmentalists.

And for pity sake, outlaw having lobbyists write our damned laws.

[mahina]

100. I agree wtih you about taking money out of politics

at least.

What efforts to reduce the influence of money in politics are ongoing in your area? Have you found many allies in that effort?

It took us eight years to get limited publicly financed elections here. So far it has been very successful.

Looking forward to hearing all about it in your area.

[Divernan]

31. Obama's unctuous rhetoric simply drove lobbyists to "unregister" before donating.

(From OP's NYT link)

"More controversy came last year over the White House’s informal contacts with lobbyists. The administration drew criticism over reports that White House officials were routinely sitting down with registered lobbyists at off-site locales, like a nearby Caribou Coffee shop, for meetings that would not show up on official White House visitor logs.

"Some Washington lobbyists suggest that the Obama administration’s tough public stance against lobbyists has served only to discourage those active in the lobbying industry from registering as lobbyists in the Senate.

“What all this rhetoric does is to drive lobbying even further into the shadows,” said a Democratic lobbyist who works frequently with the administration but spoke on the condition of anonymity.

“Obama will not take money from registered lobbyists like me,” the lobbyist said with some bitterness, “but that doesn’t mean that he won’t take money from people who are lobbying. There’s a big difference.”
____________________________________________________

So the Circle D crowd can spare us the self righteous, "Everybody does it" and "All politicians have to take lobbying money". Because that's far different from lying and representing that one DOESN'T do it, and that one ISN'T taking money from special interests. Meeting at Caribou Coffee shop to avoid having lobbyists sign in on the White House register. Well isn't that special!

An Obama fundraiser who called me excitedly told me that Obama wasn't taking "any corporate money". The phoner sounded sincere - like a typical true believer. I briefly attempted to educate them to the facts of Obama's fund raising, before politely saying good bye and hanging up.

[HowHeThinks]

34. Hey, he's a politician..........

and this may come as a shock to some, but politicians will always say things that are somewhat "less than factual" (ahem). If there's one thing I have learned about President Obama it's that he is a very good politician. He's no savior, no messiah, no knight in shining armor, he's a politician. Unfortunately politicians will always go where the campaign money is. Until that system is changed (and I don't really think it ever will be) politicians will always find ways to circumvent any roadblocks (legal or supposedly self imposed) to get at that money. And the sun will rise in the east(at least until there's a polar shift). What this country needs is a political polar shift.

[No Elephants]

93. Believe it or not, all politicians do not say things over and over and then do the opposite

[Clear Blue Sky]

47. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss...

[unionworks]

49. unrecc.

Yet another Obama hit piece.

[McCamy Taylor]

50. Only those who complained about it in 2008 get to complain now.

[No Elephants]

92. Is there a loophole for the naive?

I did not complain in 2008 because I believed Obama when he said he was not taking their money.

[farmbo]

51. Sanity check: The Other Side will raise $1 Billion from undisclosed sources...

... and DU is all atwitter over a NYT story about Obama raising-- and disclosing-- maybe $5 Million from NON LOBBYISTS (yeah, read the story) who may have "ties" to Lobbyists.

[TBF]

52. I was naive about Washington until I went to work there directly after college.

A few years in the legal field or on the hill will open your eyes very quickly (in fact half the lawyers are lobbyists for various corporate associations). Briefs fly back and forth (now electronically, we used to run them) between the largest law firms and offices on the Hill. Who do you think writes those bills full of legal jargon?

This is why I know, 100%, that the system is the problem. There is no way of "reforming" this - they are all intertwined and it's cheaper for them to pay fines than obey the law. We have got to get rid of capitalism - it's the only answer.

[mdmc]

57. OWS knows

[Beacool]

60. Wasn't he the candidate who promised not to take money from lobbyists?

Just one more proof that he's just another politician.

[AlbertCat]

64. the bundlers are in many ways indistinguishable ...

... from people who fit the technical definition of a lobbyist.


**********

I'm sorry. But this has got to be one of the lamest complaints ever. "In many ways" "Technical definition".

I'm not a great fan of the milquetoast Obama. But this is just bashing.

[DeSwiss]

98. Why I'm shocked! Shocked I say!

- K&R















''All tyranny needs to gain a foothold, is for people of good conscience to remain silent.'' ~ Thomas Jefferson.