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Guy Whitey Corngood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 11:32 AM
Original message
BREAKING — President Obama Will Announce Today Complete Drawdown of US Troops in Iraq to Zero By End
Source: ABC News

Sources tell ABC News that the president will announce today that US troops in Iraq will draw down to zero by the end of the year.

A White House official says that at approximately 11:30am today, President Obama convened a secure video conference with Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki to talk with him about this news.

Read more: http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2011/10/breaking-p... /
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FSogol Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 11:33 AM
Response to Original message
1. K & R. n/t
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Divernan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #1
153. Big thank you to the Iraqi Parliament, which refused Obama/Panetta's begging to have
them ask the US to stay!
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #153
174. Right, Obama's still evil, got it.
:eyes:

Here in actual reality, Obama has been pushing to draw down in Iraq and Afghanistan, but the Pentagon has been fighting him the whole way.

But far be it from me to rob you of your fantasy world.
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zipplewrath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #174
175. Who's in charge?
Remind me again who appointed Gates? Who appointed Panetta? Who gave the command to Petreaus? There are solutions to this infighting other than capitulation.

But I know, Obama isn't responsible for anything that happens in the Executive branch, expect for all the good stuff.
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #175
194. The President, I regret to inform you, is not a dictator.


Never said he wasn't 'responsible'. What he did was appoint people he was allowed to appoint. What? You think maybe Dennis Kucinich would have been 'allowed' to head up the Pentagon?

I don't believe you are that naïve.

He also put people in positions where they had their own duties and responsibilities that don't always converge with the President's agenda.

Here's what's really hilarious about your position;

- On the one hand, you claim Obama is 'responsible for what happens' during his administration.
- On the other hand, you refuse to consider him responsible for withdrawing from Iraq.

That's the problem with double-standards, they reveal hypocrisy.


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Vattel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #194
226. Are you suggesting that the President let Panetta and company
follow their own agendas in negotiating with Iraqis? If so, then you really have no idea how things work in the executive branch.
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #226
234. Apparently, I'm not the one that had 'no idea how things work'.

You're also late to the party, this was touched on upthread.

But, I'm curious and interested to know just 'how things work'. If you could elaborate, that would be great.

Thanks!

:hi:
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Bluesbreaker Donating Member (205 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-22-11 12:09 AM
Response to Reply #194
253. He didn't withdraw our troops, they were kicked out.
The Iraqi parliament and prime minister told us to leave. Nice spin job by the Prez.
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-22-11 02:14 AM
Response to Reply #253
256. Yes, because he so very obviously wanted to stay. Right?

Either way, it's a promise fulfilled. Whether he foresaw it, made it happen, or rode it.

I know, he's the bad guy. I get it. It's not at all possible in your universe that he's on the side of good with terrible obstacles stacked against him.

That reality might be too difficult to face. I understand.
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disndat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-22-11 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #194
270. Good points! ny.
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Divernan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #174
206. Silly me! Here I thought Panetta reported to Obama.
Panetta hopeful of Iraqi deal on US troops

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20111017/us-us... /

ROBERT BURNS | October 17, 2011 07:34 PM EST | AP
Compare other versions »


WASHINGTON — Defense Secretary Leon Panetta expressed hope Monday that the United States and Iraq can soon reach agreement on a possible U.S. military training role in Iraq beyond Dec. 31, when all American troops are scheduled to depart.

Panetta's remarks contrasted with indications from a senior Obama administration official and a senior U.S. military official on Saturday that the U.S. is abandoning plans to keep any troops in Iraq past the year-end withdrawal deadline – other than about 160 troops who would be attached to the U.S. Embassy.

Panetta and other top U.S. officials have pressed the Iraqis for months to decide whether they want a substantial U.S. military training mission in 2012. During his first visit to Baghdad as Pentagon chief in July, Panetta appeared exasperated by the Iraqis, at one point saying, "Damn it, make a decision."
y, while noting that the current U.S. force of about 39,500 troops is on track to shrink to zero by year's end.

"At the present time I'm not discouraged because we're still in negotiations with the Iraqis," Panetta said Monday when asked by a reporter whether the talks had hit an impasse. He said James Jeffrey, the U.S. ambassador to Baghdad, and Army Gen. Lloyd Austin, the top U.S. commander there, were in "discussions with Iraqi leaders" that could still yield agreement on a post-2011 U.S. military presence.
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #206
212. You're late to the party. The exchange is already over. Scroll up.
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #153
186. it is about time
:woohoo:

Now get us out of afghanistan
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onpatrol98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #186
243. +1
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #153
193. Of course that's completely bullshit, but then, I imagine you knew that.
But gods forbid we give Obama credit for all he's done.
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #193
195. Wanna hear a joke?

"Obama is responsible for what happens during his administration!"

"Obama has nothing to do with what happens during his administration!"

The joke?

They have no idea how transparent they are.
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Grown2Hate Donating Member (833 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #153
223. Since when the fuck do we care what the Iraqi Parliament says anyhow?
Sure seems to me if we wanted to stay, we'd STAY. PERIOD. And instead, we're leaving.
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 11:35 AM
Response to Original message
2. I am glad to hear this.
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Harmony Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 11:35 AM
Response to Original message
3. About time we hear good news
now when will the campaign in Afghanistan end?

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Skip_In_Boulder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #3
38. Let's just enjoy this victory for a moment
before we start piling on his ass about Afghanistan.
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Lasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #38
81. OK Skip, I'm in.
I'm going to take your good advice and just savor today.

:toast:
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wordpix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #81
129. me, too. Baby steps
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Skip_In_Boulder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #81
158. Well I think I am going to let it run
for about a week. But during that time I am going to avail myself to every opportunity I can to beat Republicans over the head with this. "So tell me, how many wars did your guy prosecute and bring to conclusion in 7 months?" "Yeah, now how close was it your guy came to getting OBL?" etc, etc.
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Raster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #38
132. Is that both US soldiers and Pentagon-paid mercenaries....

...or just the soldiers?

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leeroysphitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #38
168. Fuck that. People are dying. n/t
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Skip_In_Boulder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #168
172. Well no shit Sherlock
Did you figure that out all by yourself? People are dying in many different ways in America right now.
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #38
190. Count me in on that!
Edited on Fri Oct-21-11 05:26 PM by calimary
Let's just savor the moment. One of the things we've all been asking for, lobbying for, pushing for, making phone calls for, petitioning for, marching for, for - how long now??? And I believe it's another campaign promise fulfilled.

It ISN'T perfect. And we need to watch how the withdrawal is executed - are they REALLY TRULY HONESTLY SERIOUSLY coming home? Even so, I still agree that this is a sweet moment.
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lillypaddle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #3
63. One step at a time n/t
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Gamow Donating Member (226 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #63
90. Yes, lets not go too far too fast
Edited on Fri Oct-21-11 01:47 PM by Gamow
Man I wish this President would have a "Let Bartlet be Bartlet" moment.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #90
100. Okay, you made me Google.
Welcome to DU.
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Gamow Donating Member (226 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #100
115. "This is more important than re-election, I want to speak now"
One of the best episodes, too bad its fantasy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZ9-3NxTzQ8
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FarLeftFist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #3
125. Ending war makes me feel all warm and fuzzy on the inside.
Like a dark cloud is finally being lifted to let some sunshine in.
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deacon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
4. No more iraq - no more libya. WTG Mr. President. n/t
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razorman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #4
34. I wish it were that easy. The current Middle East situation puts me in mind of the dog who
catches the car it has been chasing; "Now what?". We have interfered in all of these places, with a variety of results. But, Mubarak is gone. Qadaffi is dead.
What is going to replace them in their countries? I guarantee that whatever takes over in Iraq, Egypt and Libya will not even remotely resemble democracy.
Regardless of what happens over there, we will have had a hand in its development. I just hope that I am wrong and that it will turn into something better than the systems we just helped depose.
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #34
197. That's a fair concern.
And the one the Pentagon fought Obama over.
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sofa king Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #34
228. Iran is a pretty good prior example of meddling.
Teddy Roosevelt's grandson and Norman Schwarzkopf's dad were two of the primaries that knocked over Iran's democratically-elected government in 1953 at the behest of the oil companies:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d%27%C3%...

And they have hated us ever since. So maybe we should avoid taking that approach, this time.
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harmonicon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-22-11 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #4
264. Yeah, both of those used to be countries.
They had governments, infrastructure, etc., but we bombed the shit out of all of that. Now those words that used to mean so much are just words. No more Iraq. No more Libya. Way to go, indeed.
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RKP5637 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
5. K&R!!! n/t
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Lucinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
6. I know many will likely just be re-assigned to other hot spots
but at least we will be (mostly) out of this one.
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Kingofalldems Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
7. I like this one
K and R
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
8. NEVER ever be silent again. NO!! BLOOD!! FOR OIL!!!
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Liberal Veteran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #8
19. We weren't silent before the Iraq invasion. We were actively ignored by the corporate media.
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #19
31. I know. I was there 6 times to add my voice to 100s of thousands of others & organized busses to
same.

What I was referring to above is ALL of America throughout ALL time, forever, and at EVERY opportunity, bar none!
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NOLALady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #31
70. Yep.
My old butt rode some of those organized vans to DC with a load of college kids.

At first I felt a bit out of place until some of their parents hooked up with us by the time we arrived in DC.
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Puget Progressive Donating Member (61 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #19
47. Indeed, and remember how
the Worst President Ever dismissed the millions of people marching against the Iraq invasion as a "focus group".
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Liberal Veteran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #47
60. 6 million people worldwide is a "focus group". 10 teabaggers is "populist uprising".
Disgusting isn't it?
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FailureToCommunicate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #19
57. Media ignoring protest brought to mind: Charlie King's "Vaguely
Reminiscent of the Sixties" story and song (from the eighties)

One of the all time great songs about corporate media's culpability.

the "story":
http://www.myspace.com/charliebrownesongs/music/songs/v...


the song:
http://www.myspace.com/charliebrownesongs/music/songs/v...
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #19
107. How about before the Afghanistan "surge?" Were we silent then, or not?
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-22-11 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #107
272. "They" did a great job of Muddying the Waters before the Afghanistan "Surge".
Edited on Sat Oct-22-11 12:50 PM by bvar22
Many people, even on DU, still believe that Obama campaigned on the Afghanistan Surge.
Obama campaigned on the increase of US troops by "3 brigades" ( 7,000 - 10,000).
This was accomplished shortly after the election with little protest from The Left.

The "Surge" of 30,000+ troops came a few months later,
and was well Over & Above anything promised or discussed during the campaign.
Those of us paying attention raised our voices.


You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their Public Relations Marketing.

Solidarity99!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #8
51. Uh, you must have missed the MILLIONS of people marching before and after the war.
There was a US media blackout, so it's understandable.
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #51
74. No. I marched with them. My post addresses those who weren't marching + all other times & situations
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
9. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 11:38 AM
Response to Original message
10. Read the fine print before buying
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Guy Whitey Corngood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Well there's the mercenary issue and I'm sure some others as well. nt
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n2doc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #10
18. Wonder how many 'advisors' we will be leaving there?
Of course, with our drones we never really leave anywhere.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #18
25. I saw a report of 15,000 in the Embasy Palace we built there..+ there are contractors...
who will still be there for sure.
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harun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #10
71. Does this lower the amount we are spending?
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #71
105. Nothing seems to lower that--just as wars no longer seem to rescue the economy.
You would think that pulling trrops out of a country would lower the amount we have to spend on "defense," but nothing works the way it used to.

I think we may have gone through Lewis Carroll's Looking Glass, or gone into the Twilight Zone or something.

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DeSwiss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #71
150. Hah!
- That was a good one......

The Military-Industrial Complex: ''The primary aim of modern warfare (in accordance with the principles of doublethink, this aim is simultaneously recognized and not recognized by the directing brains of the Inner Party) is to use up the products of the machine without raising the general standard of living.'' ~ from 1984 by George Orwell ~
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Beartracks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #71
229. You'd think, but half of infinity is still... inifinity. n/t
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SadPanda Donating Member (158 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #10
205. The idea that a security/business apparatus would completely leave Iraq is ridiculous....
Actually, I didn't think I'd see Obama completely withdraw all US Military from Iraq in 8 years. Let alone 3. I expected to see a permanent force like we see in South Korea. Obama has decided to go with the private security model based on current security levels incountry. Yes, there will be thousands of private security personnel working in Iraq. But the bottom line is that the Iraqi's will now run the show. That includes handling cases of wrong doing.

To me this is an enormous step.
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and-justice-for-all Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 11:40 AM
Response to Original message
12. Will they just be moving them to Afghanistan??
If he pulls all the occupying forces out of the middle east, I will be quite estatic and relieved and I can say then that he has a little less to worry about for his 2012 relection.
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pasto76 Donating Member (835 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #12
16. afghanistan is central asia
my how we american lump all them brown skinned towel heads together.

as demonstrated in the 2004 and 2008 elections; the wars affected very little of the vote. Americans just dont care. Do you do anything about it other than gripe on a ubiquitous internet forum? be honest.

When bush was in office, the conservatives rode our coat tails in the name of uber patriotism. Nowdays, its the libs riding our coat tails. You may be able to imagine how we might become.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #16
52. Technically, Afghanistan is the middle-east.
What we call the middle-east is actually the near-east, according to the original definitions, with Asia the far east.

But of course those designations have not been used much since early in the last century.

Near-East: Turkey, Syria, Lebanon, Israel, Jordan, Iraq, Arabian Peninsula.
Middle East: Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, all those other 'stans' between them and Russia.
Far East: China, Burma, Malaysia, SE Asia, Japan

Not the middle-east: North Africa, Indian sub-continent (sometimes might include Pakistan, Bangladesh & Burma).

That's how I was taught it, and by gawd I'm sticking with it.
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backscatter712 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #52
53. Gotta love the terms we use for what is geographically Southwest Asia... n/t
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #52
79. It seems to depend on who taught us and when.
I went to school way back when we used the term Middle-East to pretty much apply to Israel, Syria, Palestine, Iraq, as well as Morocco, Algeria, Turkey, the whole area. Far East was India, China. Afghanistan was just a word for school-kids back then. Middle East was vaguely the area between Europe and Africa. We also spoke of Morocco, Egypt, Syria, etc. as North Africa.

But then, I was in high school before Kenya was recognized as having its own government -- back in the time of Kenyatta. And today, many young people don't even know who he was.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #79
88. Syria is definitely not North Africa.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #88
162. Back then, we learned WWII geography. I don't think our teachers
had any sort of command of the geography of Africa, North Africa, the Middle East, etc.

Remember, this is language. It isn't science. I say tomahto, you say tomayto. That's the way language works.

We spoke of everything as North Africa. No one I knew was that clear about the difference between North Africa and the Middle East. No one I knew was informed about the area much at all, not even my relatively well educated parents.

That is the way it was. I will probably never get it straight even though I visit the National Geographic site fairly regularly.

We lived in a different, much smaller world back then. Sorry, but that's just how it was.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #52
95. According to about.com, the ME is comprised of 23 countries, some
e 23 countries of the Middle East and North Africa include some countries not traditionally part of the Middle East but their cultures cause their placement in this region.

of which are included in that list more because of culture than because of geography. (I doubt even this is true, though.)

Anyway, the supposedly "official" list is:

Afghanistan
Algeria
Azerbaijan*
Bahrain
Egypt
Iran
Iraq
Israel*
Jordan
Kuwait
Lebanon
Libya
Morocco
Oman
Pakistan
Qatar
Saudi Arabia
Somalia
Syria
Tunisia
Turkey
United Arab Emirates
Yemen
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alp227 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #16
196. Wars didnt influence elections?
Then what inspired the hyperpatriotism of 2004 other than the wars? Think about why the dems took back congress in 06 then WH in 08.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #12
75. Or Iran?
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #75
85. Heaven forfend (whatever that means)
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Crowman1979 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 11:41 AM
Response to Original message
13. I'll believe it when I see it.
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entropic Donating Member (26 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 11:47 AM
Response to Original message
14. clearly, this is not fast enough
If they aren't gone by tomorrow than Obama is really a Republican.
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SoapBox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 11:47 AM
Response to Original message
15. Great! And can you imagine how the War Hawk types, McCain, FakeNoose, GOPBaggers...
will spin this!

Again, I hear heads exploding.
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Muskypundit Donating Member (417 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 11:50 AM
Response to Original message
17. And still they doubt. "Ill believe it when I see it." Wow.
The president comes on T.V announcing all troops will be out of iraq to everyone. It doesnt get more concrete than that. Stop being skeptical, he called it over, it is now over. Celebrate. There is no reason to believe the troops wont all be out.
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Liberal Veteran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #17
21. Agreed. There comes a point where cynicism becomes pathological.
Reminds me of the DADT cynicism. He signed the repeal and for weeks we heard "I'll believe it when I see it".
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Arctic Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #17
26. Kind of like when he went on TV and said Gulf shrimp was safe to eat?
I believe people should be skeptical and they should also have concerns about mercenaries also.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #26
97. And drones.
Edited on Fri Oct-21-11 01:27 PM by No Elephants
And maybe the number of troops that will be needed to guard the embassy, or whatever the blazes that is that we built there.
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quakerboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #17
147. No?
Given how many times we have been mislead about this war (by multiple presidents), I see no reason to not be a skeptic. Mission accomplished. Then a surge. then "all combat troops", now "all troops".

Does that apply to all troops, really, or will there still be legions of advisers and security forces. Will there be thousands or hundreds of thousands of "contractors" that we pay the(highly padded) bills and hold the moral responsibility for?
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Muskypundit Donating Member (417 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #147
191. 160 embassy guards. Now, I know you dont like Obama guys, but he would have given himself
wiggle room to say "I didnt lie, I said all COMBAT troops" for example. But no, he said complete withdrawal of all U.S troops. I dont take Obama for the kind of guy to lie when he said all troops would be gone.

Will there be mercenaries? Yes probably, but the thing with those mercenaries is that they are only there when Iraq wants them there. We cant deploy mercenaries anymore wherever we want in Iraq. They have to approve it. So the moral responsibility is on them now.

Also the reason we are pulling EVERYONE out is because the Iraqis refused to say that troops wouldnt be tried under Iraqi law. So maybe that answers whether there will be mercenaries or not.

And there will always be a limited number of advisers in Iraq, just like we have a limited number of advisers in Britain, Canada, and really every other partner nation in the world.

The war is over. Does Obama really need to unfurl the mission accomplished poster in his pilot suit before you guys believe him?
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quakerboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #191
221. You know?
I don't like a seeming retreat from reality. But setting that argument aside

The idea of "advisers" makes me nervous, especially when you start adding qualifiers like "limited number". But I will take Obama at his word that this means all US Troops, outside the very reasonable 160 embassy guard.

I disagree, however, with your other assertions. The Iraqi government is beholden. Their ability to function, I would assert, is largely reliant on their ability to keep the US providing resources. So saying that Iraq "wants" the mercenaries is not a fair assessment, In my opinion.

But, regardless of whether the Iraqi government(much less the people of Iraq) does want them there, as long as we are footing the bill, we are responsible. And I fail to see a valid moral distinction between an occupying army of unformed military forces and an occupying army of paid mercenaries paid for by a foreign government.


I don't want a mission accomplished banner. That was a lie. I do not want a "combat troops are leaving" speech. That was also a lie. I do not want an "all (official) troops are leaving" speech. I want an END to our operations and our participation in this failed PNAC experiment. When it no longer requires a line in the budget, then I will believe it when the President says its over. Till then its technicalities and talk, no more.
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AllyCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #17
202. +1 Me too. I have criticized this POTUS quite a bit recently, but this deserves our
reverence, gratitude, and some joy.
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RandomKoolzip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-23-11 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #17
281. There's no such thing as too much skepticism.
Politicians lie. That's their job. If they do something good, consider it luck. This applies to both parties.

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TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 11:53 AM
Response to Original message
20. That's great news. K&R nt
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 11:56 AM
Response to Original message
22. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #22
27. Yep....that's the devil in the details we won't hear for awhile. Drone Strikes..
& Military Contractors.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #27
35. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #35
42. Speak for yourself -- sheep eom
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NOLALady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #35
64. Right.
:D
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Itchinjim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #35
78. Baaaa.
Whatever dude.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #78
89. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
stillrockin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #89
113. Tell it!
Edited on Fri Oct-21-11 01:46 PM by stillrockin
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UnrepentantLiberal Donating Member (747 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #22
76. Name a scenario where the U.S. government would use predator drones
on the American people.
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OnyxCollie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #76
93. Is this vague enough?
National Security and Homeland Security Presidential Directive
NATIONAL SECURITY PRESIDENTIAL DIRECTIVE/NSPD 51

HOMELAND SECURITY PRESIDENTIAL DIRECTIVE/HSPD-20
http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/nspd/nspd-51.htm

...

(b) "Catastrophic Emergency" means any incident, regardless of location, that results in extraordinary levels of mass casualties, damage, or disruption severely affecting the U.S. population, infrastructure, environment, economy, or government functions;

...
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UnrepentantLiberal Donating Member (747 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #93
102. Yes it was.
That was very vague.
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OnyxCollie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #102
106. Do you think an "Arab spring" type movement
might fit into the category of "Catastrophic Emergency?"
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UnrepentantLiberal Donating Member (747 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #106
146. Yeah, and humans could be ruled by androids at some point.
Anything is possible.
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OnyxCollie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #146
154. Like reacting without hyperbole?
Anything is possible.

But if it allays your fears, go for it.

I heard whistling past graveyards is effective, too.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #102
144. The vague a law is, the more those in authority like it because it gives them all the
leeway they so enjoy.

The SCOTUS has struck down many laws for being unconstitutionally vague.
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OnyxCollie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #144
155. Except this is an executive order, not a law. nt
SCOTUS won't touch it. Separation of powers.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #93
114. According to Mayor Menino, Occupy Boston was damaging thousands of dollars worth of plantings
on the Rose Kennedy Greenway.

Sounds as though that might fit.
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OnyxCollie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #114
116. Nixon declared a postal strike to be a national emergency.
U.S Postal Strike of 1970
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._postal_strike_of_1970

The U.S. postal strike of 1970 was a groundbreaking two-week strike by federal postal workers in March 1970. President Richard Nixon called out the United States armed forces and the National Guard in an attempt to distribute the mail and break the strike.

The strike led directly to passage of the Postal Reorganization Act of 1970, which modernized the postal service and provided for collective bargaining for postal workers.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #116
130. Not surprised. And Nixon is to the left of many of today's Democrats.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #22
80. Good points, Small Family Farmer. Excellent.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #22
108. Don't apologize. You have as much right to voice your views and feelings as anyone else does.
Edited on Fri Oct-21-11 01:50 PM by No Elephants
You don't ever have to defer to any board bully (even me) or group thereof.

That said, I'll be happy if a few troops don't get re-deployed or "stop lossed" as many times. And I'll be very happy if they all get to come home, but, with the WOT, I don't see that happening ever sadly.

Welcome to DU.


Edited to correct two of my many typos.

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Autumn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 11:56 AM
Response to Original message
23. At last !!!! GOBAMA
K/R
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Divernan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #23
164. Gobama is what the Iraqi parliament told him & Panetta!
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Autumn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #164
185. Well he did say
make me do it :rofl: So I guess they did. :toast:
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-22-11 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #185
273. LOL.
:rofl:

...But as stern a critic of Obama as I am,
I AM celebrating today.
I don't care HOW, WHY, or WHO,
it looks like the troops are coming OUT of Iraq,
and that is a good thing.

Kudos to Obama.
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graywarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 11:57 AM
Response to Original message
24. Not to be a downer, because lord knows, I support Obama, but
where do the oil companies fit into this plan?
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razorman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #24
43. Who knows? Many here on DU have made the accusation that Iraq was "war for oil".
But, if that's the case, where is our cheap oil? Do we get any oil from Iraq? Getting oil may be a bad reason to start a war, but at least it's a reason.
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graywarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #43
59. I seem to recall that 3 major oil companies went there right after the first part
of the invasion to split things up between them. Supposedly, that was supposed to pay for the war.
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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #43
110. I think the oil COMPANIES are benefitting, they weren't concerned
about us. Here's how I remember it -- that Cheney had a top-secret "energy" meeting and those attending were, of course, the heads of Big Oil. I heard they had divvied up who got what areas/oil. I'm not sure if things went according to plan, but I've no doubt that the oil companies are profiting in some way.

You remind me, though, that they said the oil revenues would pay for the war (not sure they were calling it a war at the time), so I don't know quite how that fell through the cracks, either.

The horror of what Cheney/Bush wrought on this greedy gamble is too huge to comprehend. In my mind, anyway.

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OnyxCollie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #43
120. Executive Order 13303
Executive Order 13303
http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/2003/pdf/03-13412.pdf

Protecting the Development Fund for Iraq and Certain Other Property in Which Iraq Has an Interest


By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, including the International Emergency Economic Powers Act, as amended (50 U.S.C. 1701 et seq.) (IEEPA), the National Emergencies Act (50 U.S.C. 1601 et seq.), section 5 of the United Nations Participation Act, as amended (22 U.S.C. 287c) (UNPA), and section 301 of title 3, United States Code,
I, GEORGE W. BUSH, President of the United States of America, find that the threat of attachment or other judicial process against the Development Fund for Iraq, Iraqi petroleum and petroleum products, and interests therein, and proceeds, obligations, or any financial instruments of any nature whatso- ever arising from or related to the sale or marketing thereof, and interests therein, obstructs the orderly reconstruction of Iraq, the restoration and maintenance of peace and security in the country, and the development of political, administrative, and economic institutions in Iraq. This situation constitutes an unusual and extraordinary threat to the national security and foreign policy of the United States and I hereby declare a national emergency to deal with that threat.
I hereby order:
Section 1. Unless licensed or otherwise authorized pursuant to this order, any attachment, judgment, decree, lien, execution, garnishment, or other judicial process is prohibited, and shall be deemed null and void, with respect to the following:
(a) the Development Fund for Iraq, and
(b) all Iraqi petroleum and petroleum products, and interests therein, and proceeds, obligations, or any financial instruments of any nature whatso- ever arising from or related to the sale or marketing thereof, and interests therein, in which any foreign country or a national thereof has any interest, that are in the United States, that hereafter come within the United States, or that are or hereafter come within the possession or control of United States persons. Sec. 2. (a) As of the effective date of this order, Executive Order 12722 of August 2, 1990, Executive Order 12724 of August 9, 1990, and Executive Order 13290 of March 20, 2003, shall not apply to the property and interests in property described in section 1 of this order.
(b) Nothing in this order is intended to affect the continued effectiveness of any rules, regulations, orders, licenses or other forms of administrative action issued, taken, or continued in effect heretofore or hereafter under Executive Orders 12722, 12724, or 13290, or under the authority of IEEPA or the UNPA, except as hereafter terminated, modified, or suspended by the issuing Federal agency and except as provided in section 2(a) of this order.
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ChadwickHenryWard Donating Member (692 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #43
188. Read "Armed Madhouse" by Greg Palast.
http://www.amazon.com/Armed-Madhouse-Afraid-Floats-Disp...

Palast reveals that not everybody in the Bush administration that was pushing for war with Iraq wanted cheap oil. In fact, there were two opposed factions both pushing for war: one wanted cheap oil, and the other wanted expensive oil. Realize that the oil companies, who were amply represented in Bush's White House, benefit from oil being more expensive, not less.
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #43
214. It's not cheap oil, it's any oil
Don't know if you got the memo, but we passed peak oil a while back. While I don't agree with our presence in the ME, and think we should be working on getting off the oil teat, I get why our country and every other country hungry for oil is circling the ME like a hungry shark. This isn't conspiracy, it's fact.
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razorman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #214
215. It's world history. It has always been this way. Always will be.
Human nature. Wars are always fought because someone has something that someone else wants.
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-22-11 09:11 AM
Response to Reply #215
260. I know
The oil wars have been bad and the water wars will be worse.
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Jamastiene Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-22-11 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #43
252. The oil was for the oil companies.
They don't lower our prices just because they got the oil cheaper. They still wanted their high profits. So, they didn't lower their prices for us. It was for them to get more profits. It was never for us to have cheaper prices, only for them to make more.
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Ash_F Donating Member (105 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-22-11 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #43
279. Pffft who said the oil was supposed to be for you to buy cheaply? Don't be silly.
But don't worry, Exxon, Shell, BP, Total, Statoil ect still got their fingers in there eventually. Now they sell it to citizens and soldiers at greatly inflated prices as a thank you for their hard work. :)

Seriously, I think the Bush administration thought there would be little blowback given Saddam's unpopularity. They thought they would be able to begin operations quickly and bloodlessly but the Iraqis decided to fight back for 10 years for some reason. Something about a representative democracy. Silly Arabs, thinking they could be in charge of their own country.
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #24
179. new contracts, oil fields being rebuilt, and more exploration for new fields
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graywarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #179
198. Does that mean gas prices will go down?
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SadPanda Donating Member (158 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #198
207. On paper, it means yes, they should go down
If oil expansion works of course. Basically if Iraq continues to transform into a peaceful society and investments into expanding drilling aren't hampered by security concerns... yes. We get a lot more oil for the next twenty years.

There are dozens of major concerns involved in this. Particularly the ability of both the majority Shia and minority Sunni to talk instead of shoot.
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graywarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #207
217. Thank you for your rational response
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 12:00 PM
Response to Original message
28. Certainly OWS isn't suppoting war and trust this is happening in some part....
because of the people in the streets --

We need to get out of Afghanistan -- and we need to stop warmongering

all over the world --

Let's nationalize oil -- and our other natural resources --

No oil -- no wars --

War isn't healthy for the planet or other living things -- as so many have

said before!!

\
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BumRushDaShow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
29. K&R
:kick:
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mactime Donating Member (22 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
30. Great News
Great News. How many soldiers are in Iraq now? Is it logistically possible?
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xocet Donating Member (699 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 12:04 PM
Response to Original message
32. Good Potential News! K & R n/t
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rurallib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 12:04 PM
Response to Original message
33. I am really curious about the contractors
how many will be left and who will protect them?
Also, what about the oil fields and pipelines?
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go west young man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #33
44. Here's a Wiki link on that.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_military_company

Here's an excerpt: In December, 2006, in Iraq there are thought to be at least 100,000 contractors working directly for the United States Department of Defense which is a tenfold increase in the use of private contractors for military operations since the Persian Gulf War, just over a decade earlier.<18> The prevalence of PMCs has led to the foundation of trade group the Private Security Company Association of Iraq.

With all the construction we did of course we're not going anywhere. This was always one of the goals of The Project For A New American Century.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #44
117. Always remember: One of the signers of the PNAC memo was also a founder of the
Democratic Leadership Council and the founder of the Progressive Policy Institute, Mr. Will Marshall.
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FedUp_Queer Donating Member (679 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
36. Good on ya, Mr. P.
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barbtries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 12:10 PM
Response to Original message
37. yes.
so, so long overdue. now let's end the rest of the wars and start promoting peace.
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FedUp_Queer Donating Member (679 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #37
40. Pshaw. There's no money in peace. What are you a communist?
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barbtries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #40
50. pacifist
liberal, humanist, possibly socialist, but no, i don't THINK i'm a communist. peacemonger. :hippie:
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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
39. Lovely
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 12:14 PM
Response to Original message
41. Good news. I wonder where the 2 billion a week will be redirected. nt
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razorman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #41
54. It will probably be used to deal with the Iraqi refugees that flee to avoid the slaughter,
once Iran moves in. I just pray that we have sense enough to stay out then.
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Harmony Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #54
55. Iran isn't moving in
when Saudi paid mercs are in Iraq and the Kurds control the North. Iran has its own economic and political problems to handle.

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UnrepentantLiberal Donating Member (747 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #55
82. Wait till Muqtada al-Sadr gets his grove on.
That should get things rolling.
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #54
61. So it'll still go to the war profiteers. nt
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dmosh42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
45. Only because Iraq wanted us to leave! Had enough US democracy!
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truthisfreedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
46. How many mercenaries will be left there? How many employees of Xe (formerly Blackwater)?
How much will we be spending on them?
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Guy Whitey Corngood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #46
49. Also, will the Iraqi government have any jurisdiction over them? nt
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Cherchez la Femme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #46
87. A very many
and, considering that humongous base/embassy/building we built there, there will be a huge number of both soldiers AND mercenaries left in that country.

And with a crooked President such as Iraq has, it won't be long until there's an overthrow

muqtada al-sadr, perhaps?

and back to Sharia law and the hell with Democracy.

And God knows why they didn't partition Iraq into 3 peices, for the Kurds, the Shiites, and the Sunni.
That is a recipe for disaster.


Those are my prediction,
I don't think I'll be wrong

but I surely hope I will be.

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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #87
123. Sharia Law, in its entirety, was incorporated by reference into the Iraqi Constitution when
we were the only government that Iraq had.

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Historic NY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
48. Back on the 15th it was announced and there was a lot of naysayers...
Edited on Fri Oct-21-11 12:19 PM by Historic NY
http://www.inquisitr.com/150895/us-troops-to-leave-iraq... /

The troop withdrawal does not include the 160 active-duty soldiers that are attached to the US Embassy in Baghdad.

The AFP notes that there are currently 41,000 troops remaining in Iraq

Originally 4000 were to remain for training purposes but that was also nixed.

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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #48
210. Earlier there were threads by those in 'the know' that they were informed
of a long term secret agreement that would keep us there for a decade.


now


crickets.
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Historic NY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #210
211. Exactly...my point.
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Puget Progressive Donating Member (61 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 12:23 PM
Response to Original message
56. Question
Edited on Fri Oct-21-11 12:23 PM by Puget Progressive
How many tens of thousands of armed mercenaries will be left there to keep order?
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Beavker Donating Member (784 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
58. Oh no, Terrorists will be breaking down your door in a few months!
Not.

Good move. Good direction. Lots of questions and possible issues, but the move in my book is in the right direction!
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lillypaddle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 12:30 PM
Response to Original message
62. Yeehaw!
:toast:
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tex-wyo-dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 12:32 PM
Response to Original message
65. Thank you, Mr. President!
This is a long time in coming :thumbsup:

Now, next up...Afghanistan
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
66. Yay!
We shouldn't have been in Iraq to begin with. Members of the Bush Administration that lied about Iraq should be in prison for life. And protecting them from prosecution, as the Obama Administration has done, is dereliction of duty.
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 12:36 PM
Response to Original message
67. Bush SOFA retread.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #67
94. He could have disregarded Bush's SOFA. Were you hoping he would?
Edited on Fri Oct-21-11 01:27 PM by AtomicKitten
nt
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #94
140. Of course, he could have disregarded an agreement between the U.S. and Iraq. WTF?
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #140
156. He could have renegotiated the withdrawal date but didn't. 'kay?
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-22-11 08:18 AM
Response to Reply #156
258. They tried but ran into immunity problems.
Sorry if I'm pointing out pesky facts.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-22-11 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #258
267. Are you cranky that the Iraq war is over and Obama might get some credit for it?
Edited on Sat Oct-22-11 11:23 AM by AtomicKitten
Obama offered to leave a 3K training force but without immunity said we're outta there.

Done.

Bernie Sanders: "I applaud the president's decision and have been advocating that position for quite a while. Our nation has spent hundreds of billions of dollars in recent years protecting the people of Iraq and rebuilding that country. Vermont and America have also paid a very heavy price in loss of life and injuries suffered by our soldiers. Now is the time to bring our troops home, lower our military budget, and use those funds to create jobs by rebuilding our infrastructure and lowering our national debt."

http://sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/news/?id=1894e87e-1e...
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-22-11 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #267
276. He's going out on Chimp's timeline.
Are you cranky that the Iraq war is over and Chimp might get some credit for it?



Bees! Oh, my eyes! Bees!
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-22-11 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #276
278. Who cares? That's such a weak point.
Actually I blame Bush for starting the war in the first place and I'm very happy the remaining 39K troops in Iraq will be leaving for good by year's end. Finally. It's okay to celebrate that. Really.

It's rather sad that some people are so invested in their criticism of Obama that they can't celebrate this withdrawal without fragging him. That speaks more about you than I think you realize.
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-23-11 08:31 AM
Response to Reply #278
280. Try this to help your understanding:
"That impasse makes Obama's speech at the White House on Friday less a dramatic surprise than simple confirmation of what had long been expected by observers of the moribund talks between the administration and the government of Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki, which believes its own security forces are more than up to the task of protecting the country from terror attacks originating within its borders or foreign incursions from neighboring countries." http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2011/10/us-... /


Actually I blame Bush for starting the war in the first place and I'm very happy the remaining 39K troops in Iraq will be leaving for good by year's end. Finally. It's okay to celebrate that. Really.

I agree with those sentiments 100%.


It's rather sad that some people are so invested in their criticism of Obama that they can't celebrate this withdrawal without fragging him. That speaks more about you than I think you realize.

So pointing out the desired policy was maintaining a troop force in Iraq instead of a troop withdrawal and that this undesired withdrawal was agreed to three years ago and had nothing to do with Obama is me fragging him? If pointing out undeniable facts says more about me than I realize, I wonder what it says about you?


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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-23-11 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #280
284. Pres Obama could have argued the Bush's SOFA needed Congressional approval.
Obama certainly expressed believing Bush's SOFA required Congressional approval during the 2008 presidential campaign (see below). Apparently your position reflects Bush's position, that Bush's SOFA tied President Obama's hands. If Obama wanted to stay in Iraq longer, he could very easily have disputed Bush's SOFA arguing that it required US Congressional approval, but he didn't because it was always his intention to make good on his promise to end the war in Iraq. And he did and I'm happy about it regardless of the scattering of domestic cockroaches trying to undermine him every step of the way.


Proposed SOFA Agreement Requires Congressional Approval Because It Contains Treaty Commitment http://thinkprogress.org/security/2008/11/21/32714/iraq... /

Oona Hathaway, a legal scholar and one of Delahunt’s witnesses, argues that the SOFA the administration has negotiated – at least its Arabic translation – amounts to a new authorization to use military force, and that it therefore requires congressional approval. Delahunt similarly believes that the SOFA requires congressional approval, and President-elect Barack Obama made pledges during the campaign to a similar effect. Beyond the domestic legal authority issues pointed out at Delahunt’s hearing, there appears to be language in the SOFA that refers to a U.S. security guarantee toward Iraq:

In the event of any external or internal threat or aggression against Iraq that would violate its sovereignty, political independence, or territorial integrity, waters, airspace, its democratic system or its elected institutions, and upon request by the Government of Iraq, the Parties shall immediately initiate strategic deliberations and, as may be mutually agreed, the United States shall take appropriate measures, including diplomatic, economic, or military measures, or any other measure, to deter such a threat.


This language suggests that the SOFA is, in fact, a treaty committing the United States to act in the defense of Iraq if its security is threatened. Even if it does not rise to the level of a firm security guarantee, the SOFA’s language is close enough to a treaty that Congress should have a say in it.
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-23-11 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #284
285. Coulda, Shoulda, Woulda!
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-23-11 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #285
286. So we agree his hands were not tied and the war will finally be over. Hooray!
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-24-11 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #286
288. Hooray!
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #67
96. Bush is a brillian C-in-C
I thought we would be in Iraq for decades, perhaps over a century.

Now we are out, and victorious. The neo-cons were right - it was easy..
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #67
127. What a magical moment. We discovered Bush's skill. Ducking stuff thrown at him.
Looks as though he's had some practice.

Next, maybe he'll master eating pretzels.

I have faith!
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Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #67
235. This was about all the accountability we'll ever likely see..I love that video, lol.
:toast:
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Initech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 12:36 PM
Response to Original message
68. About damn time. But what about Afghanistan?
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qb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 12:36 PM
Response to Original message
69. 7 !/2 years after "Mission Accomplished" is it finally accomplished?
I fucking hope so.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #69
133. Not really. But Iraq asked us to leave.
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cui bono Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 12:49 PM
Response to Original message
72. Does that include private contractors? n/t
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_ed_ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 12:49 PM
Response to Original message
73. GW Bush made this arrangement with Iraq in 2008
How is this breaking news? It would only be news if we were not going to follow the arrangement that's been set for three years.
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totodeinhere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #73
91. That is correct. Obama is following through on a timetable already put in place
by the Bush Administration. And negotiators for the Obama Administration actually wanted to leave some troops in Iraq but negotiations with the Iraqis to accomplish that fell through.

According to people familiar with the negotiations -- which were conducted for the Obama administration by some of the same individuals who led the Bush-era process -- the main sticking points in recent months were over the precise number of troops that would stay behind, and whether the Iraqi government would agree to provide them with legal immunity.

Experts on the mission in Iraq say that despite the public protestations on all sides, both parties were eager to come to an agreement over a continuing troop presence: the Iraqis because they hoped for help in providing stability, and the Americans because they wanted a further bulwark against encroachment by Iran.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/21/obama-iraq-tro...
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_ed_ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #91
99. Right
So why is the media treating this like as "Breaking News." I just had MSNBC on and they were all acting like this is some kind of historic announcement. We've know about this for three years? God, I hate the mainstream media.
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FarLeftFist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #99
238. Because you haven't known about it for 3 years, you were hoping it would for 3 years.
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NewJeffCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
77. They'll be withdrawing the troops - through Iran
okay, just kidding on that one. It's an old Onion headline

http://www.theonion.com/articles/bush-announces-iraq-ex...
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aquamarina Donating Member (772 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
83. This is definately good news.
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young but wise Donating Member (760 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
84. K&R.
:patriot: :applause:
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truth2power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 01:04 PM
Response to Original message
86. How many mercenaries will be left? Just asking. n/t
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Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 01:13 PM
Response to Original message
92. K & R
:thumbsup:
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humblebum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 01:23 PM
Response to Original message
98. Believe it when I see it. Now get out of Afghanistan. nt
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Myrina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 01:26 PM
Response to Original message
101. Diane Rehm had an interesting guest today ...
I was picking up takeout for work so only got to hear about 6-7 minutes but she proposed, and he agreed, that the new 'surgical strike' such as how POTUS took out bin Laden (and Khaddafi?) are going to be the US's "new" warfare, as opposed to sending hundreds of thousands of ground troops somewhere.

I remember thinking in 2002, when we were chasing bin Laden all over the continent, why is it that we have satellites and snipers that can read the watch face of a guy on a camel from half a mile away but we need 100k troops to find OBL?

Hopefully POTUS was (and is) thinking the same thing.
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nineteen50 Donating Member (488 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 01:27 PM
Response to Original message
103. Will taxpayers $ follow the troops or stay there for the
contractors?
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Iggo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
104. Good.
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 01:40 PM
Response to Original message
109. Kicked and recommended.
Thanks for the thread, Guy Whitey Corngood. :thumbsup:
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Marrah_G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 01:42 PM
Response to Original message
111. I'm glad they will all be leaving Iraq
I hope they all come home from Afghanistan soon as well.
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GreenTea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 01:45 PM
Response to Original message
112. Halliburton & over 200 other corporations, weapons makers , oil corporations hate seeing war end....
Edited on Fri Oct-21-11 01:45 PM by GreenTea
They say fuck our economy, fuck the people dying killed & maimed, fuck the destruction of a countries and don't give a shit occupying other countries lands - Only more wars for corporate profits matter to them republican slime!
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Xtraneous Donating Member (68 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #112
204. Uh, not really. Now the government will just being paying the same
for stockpiling more weapons. Where did you see the defense budget go down. It never will. We are a war country now beholden to our defense contractor overlords. The Dems have been just as complicit.
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fortyfeetunder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-23-11 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #204
282. Some proof DoD is faced with shrinking budget...
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Rhiannon12866 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 01:58 PM
Response to Original message
118. K&R! Great news and long past time! Breaking on MSNBC...
:woohoo: :patriot:
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Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 01:58 PM
Response to Original message
119. The sound you just heard
is the right collectively shitting themselves.
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Harmony Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #119
121. They are losing momentum fast
another loose end the administration needs to tie up is to not extend the Bush Tax cuts.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #121
141. Not fer nuttin', but the Bush tax cuts expired December 2010. We are now operating under the Obama
tax cuts.
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a simple pattern Donating Member (426 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #119
159. Yeah, but you can always hear that.
That is like, the main thing they do.
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reggie the dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 02:05 PM
Response to Original message
122. please tell me they are not going to take them to iran
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demigoddess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 02:11 PM
Response to Original message
124. Yes !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:party: :party: :party: :party: :party: :party: :party:
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dotymed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 02:15 PM
Response to Original message
126. What are the troops coming home to?
Less pay and There will either be downsizing of the military, IMO, or "they" will try to use U.S. troops to combat civil unrest.

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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #126
142. Who said they were "coming home? "Out of Iraq" does not necessarily mean "Into the U.S."
We'll see what happens.
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AtheistCrusader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
128. Awesome. Getting the re-election ducks in a row.
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wordpix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 02:27 PM
Response to Original message
131. out of Iraq, out of Afghanistan & tell the MIC + oil corpos: never again
Bring the troops home! :applause:

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katty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 02:31 PM
Response to Original message
134. Finally-but still have a gigantic embassy there
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diane in sf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 02:32 PM
Response to Original message
135. We've been there longer than we were in WWII, Why? So Cheney and the BFEE
could make money selling arms and services; so the Republicans could starve social services; so we could kill 1M Iraqi men, women, and children; so we could maim and kill thousands of our own people; so we could get a start on PNAC's plans to control the entire world by shock and awe, starting with the Middle East; and so we could control a resource that we should be inventing our way out of using because we are burning up our atmosphere?

None of these are good enough reasons to go to war.

In fact according to the Geneva conventions, the people who planned and carried this out should be prosecuted.

50,000 people a year in this country alone have been dying from lack of medical care. The people who planned and carried out this war have the blood of millions on their hands.
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Mad_Dem_X Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 02:33 PM
Response to Original message
136. Thank you, Mr. President
Let's bring the troops HOME! :patriot:
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progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 02:33 PM
Response to Original message
137. Eeeek! The President is soft on Terra!
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #137
145. Has he even SEEN the show yet?


(Oh, wait...did you mean something else...?)
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Admiral Loinpresser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 02:34 PM
Response to Original message
138. Thank God it's election season. n/t
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KILL THE WISE ONE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 02:35 PM
Response to Original message
139. This is great news BUT
There is a but, for all great news.
In this case it is the executions of gay men in Iraq’s prisons for being gay. If you believe that we should bring them home with us, act now. There is little time left for these men.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #139
149. Do you have a more specific suggestion about what we might do that would
actually impact TPTB on this issue?

Is there a movement already?

I'm sorry, but I just don't know.

I would like to help, but don't want to re-invent any wheels--or spin any wheels, either.

Thanks.
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KILL THE WISE ONE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #149
152. anything you can think of
as chances of any success it minimal.
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plumbob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 02:48 PM
Response to Original message
143. Good. Now all the rest.
Close all overseas bases, dismantle our torture and rendition apparatus next.
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 02:57 PM
Response to Original message
148. This is great news.
Hopefully the Iraqis can stay safe.
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ecstatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 02:59 PM
Response to Original message
151. Another promise kept. Despite the nastiness here and on other sites,
President Obama still has a millions of supporters. Good job, Mr. President!
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zipplewrath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #151
176. You do realize this is late
A promise kept, but late. He promised a quicker draw down, and never ran on trying to get Iraq to ask us to stay longer.
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LittleGirl Donating Member (377 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 03:13 PM
Response to Original message
157. Excellent News. 1 down, 1 to go
My military family is very happy. None there now, but you never know anymore.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 03:16 PM
Response to Original message
160. We tried our best to get Iraq to agree to our leaving troops there beyond the date agreed to by Bush
but we did not succeed.

And we'll probably have some troops there to "protect our embassy" etc.

Still, I'll take it.

Whatever it is, however we got here, I'll take it, and I'll be glad of it.
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Guy Whitey Corngood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #160
161. Yeah, that's pretty much my take as well. nt
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Ikonoklast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 03:27 PM
Response to Original message
163. Here's hoping ther Iraqi People find a path to a good form of governance for themsleves.
We've interfered so much, I hope things aren't broken beyond repair.

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obxhead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 03:44 PM
Response to Original message
165. Breaking! Obama
will not address the 100,000 private contracted killing forces that will remain or the cost of maintaining that force.
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DCBob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #165
169. There are steps and phases to getting out of this monumental mess Bush started.
Edited on Fri Oct-21-11 04:17 PM by DCBob
and this is a huge step. Well done Mr President!
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Vattel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #169
225. Lol. Well-done, indeed.
Only a remarkable president could manage to keep his predecessor's agreement to withdraw the troops after trying but failing to renegotiate it so that the troops would stay.
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DCBob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #225
227. You totally fail to understand any GOPer President would have ignored that deadline..
and simply made some excuse to keep the troops there.
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YvonneCa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #227
245. Exactly. That's why GWB never made any...
...progress. I still have my 'set-a-deadline.com' t-shirt...planning to wear it in celebration. :7
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2Design Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 03:47 PM
Response to Original message
166. Not believing this - they will put them somewhere else - usa is a killing machine
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DCBob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 03:47 PM
Response to Original message
167. very good news indeed. I think I had a bet with someone on this issue,,
cant remember who that was. So many thought this would never happen. Idiots.
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MrMickeysMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 03:56 PM
Response to Original message
170. Excuse me, how does this dovetail with what Leon Panetta has said?
Are we still on message?

As they say in the burgh, "Haz come?"
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savannah43 Donating Member (198 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 04:05 PM
Response to Original message
171. Two smooth moves by the Prez. First, allowing the GOP to show
their plan for defeating him in 2012 regarding jobs, not once, but twice. Now this! I'm starting to like him again. But follow-through is everything.
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onethatcares Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 04:11 PM
Response to Original message
173. I'm in, and to tell the truth
I started laughing out loud in joy when I heard the announcement.

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coyote Donating Member (900 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 04:39 PM
Response to Original message
177. Oh look, it must be campaign season.
Excuse my cynicism, but I don't believe a damn word that comes from this guy. While this is good on the face of it, it should have occurred 3 years ago.
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 04:41 PM
Response to Original message
178. all those troops coming home by christmas
many will be discharged next year......hmmmm, where`s the jobs for these troops boner?

i think you guys have just been screwed by the guy who runs this country.
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Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 04:51 PM
Response to Original message
180. Obama is the man!!! This is the change that we were promised in 2008.
And this is why Obama will be re-elected next year.

I am so happy about this, I feel like singing ---

"Let the eagle soar,
Let it go higher than ever before . . ."

Ashcroft, we know you're out there, hiding under a rock somewhere!!

:rofl:
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lsewpershad Donating Member (964 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 04:54 PM
Response to Original message
181. Finally
This
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lsewpershad Donating Member (964 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 04:54 PM
Response to Original message
182. Finally
Edited on Fri Oct-21-11 04:55 PM by lsewpershad
This is the right decision.
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Faygo Kid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 04:59 PM
Response to Original message
183. Finally, and thanks to all my DU friends who marched with me in 2002-03. Lest we forget.
We tried to stop this disaster from happening. We were right to do so.

I am thankful beyond reckoning that this horrid unnecessary war is now ending. I don't know what the future holds for Iraq, but I do know that Saddam would have been gone by now anyway, without the lives (American, Iraqi and more) and treasure we expended.

F You, neocons.
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workinclasszero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 05:01 PM
Response to Original message
184. Thank you Jesus!
Finally...FINALLY!

And..

Thank you Mr. President. :toast:
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Cal Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 05:18 PM
Response to Original message
187. Add me to the list of people wondering about private contractors
Which we spend more on than our public-sector soldiers, and who have less accountability.



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ChadwickHenryWard Donating Member (692 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 05:21 PM
Response to Original message
189. Wait, didn't Bush set that dealine?
If Bush signed the agreement to leave by December 31, 2011, and Obama actually pushed for troops to stay longer, how is this a victory for Obama? From where I stand it looks like he didn't get his way at all.
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DCBob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #189
218. Bush would have broken it if he were still in office.
There are all sorts of ways for a US President to get around that "deadline".
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ChadwickHenryWard Donating Member (692 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #218
230. How do you know that?
Can you give a compelling reason why you think Bush would do that, or are you just making that up. My point is to ask, how is this an accomplishment for Obama? He didn't have to do anything - the deadline was already set.
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DCBob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #230
232. wild guess.
;)
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YvonneCa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #232
247. ...
... :7
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YvonneCa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #230
246. Hold on to that...
...fantasy, if you want. ;)
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ChadwickHenryWard Donating Member (692 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-22-11 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #246
262. What fantasy?
It's a matter of public record: Bush signed the agreement that set that date. Obama wanted to stay longer but couldn't pull it off. What am I missing?
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YvonneCa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-22-11 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #262
275. Bush was highly....
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BlueIris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 05:25 PM
Response to Original message
192. Finally doing the bare minimum. Best Prezident EVAR!!!
Loser.
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thelordofhell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 06:00 PM
Response to Original message
199. Did he bring all you motherfuckers donuts too?
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junior college Donating Member (290 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 06:01 PM
Response to Original message
200. Cool. Now what are they going to do with the permanent US military
bases out in the middle of the desert?
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AllyCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 06:16 PM
Response to Original message
201. I have removed the Endless(this) war sticker from my car today
I realize Afghanistan is still on and now we have Libya, but the red ink was fading on "This" and I put it on there for the Iraqi war...now it is done. I needed a ceremony for the happiness I feel about this. And I needed space on the bumper for more Recall Walker stuff as we ramp it up for the next 80-90 days or so.
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SadPanda Donating Member (158 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
203. Seriously, how many people are still waiting around on a pony?
I read through the comments and just shake my head.
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PhoenixAbove Donating Member (93 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 07:01 PM
Response to Original message
208. This is a good start!
I have been at odds with this President over a few issues but I can certainly shout out "Good job!" when it is due. Thank you President Obama!
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SHRED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 07:14 PM
Response to Original message
209. And Republicans weep
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 07:31 PM
Response to Original message
213. Who is going to run the base?
Advisors?
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bhikkhu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #213
219. The state dept runs the embassy, the bases are shut down
...and any contractors will be run through the state department, rather than the military.
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-22-11 09:10 AM
Response to Reply #219
259. A well run Three Card Monty is still, in the end, a scam
We didn't build the biggest American base in the Middle East just to walk away from it. It isn't going to happen.
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bhikkhu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-22-11 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #259
274. Well, we'll know by Dec 31st, when its scheduled to be finished
I think we will walk away from the big stupid bush-era military bases in Iraq, just as the current agreement says.
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 07:46 PM
Response to Original message
216. a great move! but, from what I've read, the private XE type wannabe-army remains. not good.


Get it here now, or one of a million other designs! http://www.zazzle.com/republicans_2012_keeping_millions...
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DCBob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #216
224. What also remains are the US AID type projects that require security to function safely.
The Iraqis are not yet ready to fulfill that role entirely.
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riverwalker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 08:10 PM
Response to Original message
220. Thank you, Mr. President
Bring them home.
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66 dmhlt Donating Member (935 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 08:15 PM
Response to Original message
222. To be on the record: This is good news - & it ain't for McCain
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RufusTFirefly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 09:12 PM
Response to Original message
231. Great news, although we're not really leaving voluntarily
We've effectively been forced out.

Horrified and angered by the harrowing images of Abu Ghraib abuses, Iraqi citizens successfully pressured their government to revoke immunity for U.S. soldiers. Because U.S. military planners consider immunity essential for American troops in Iraq and elsewhere, they felt they had no choice but to withdraw those troops before the immunity expires.

Ironically, we can thank the war criminals for this welcome turn of events
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #231
236. or the President insisted on conditions that he knew wouldn't be acceptable

resulting in both a departure and political cover for both sides.

Please feel free to pick the most possible anti Obama interpretation if it makes you feel better.
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NOLALady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #236
239. That was my first thought also.
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DCBob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #236
240. Yes, I was thinking along those lines too. Also, gives him cover with the military.
I believe the President desperately wants out of Iraq but he knows he needs to be very careful in how he does it.
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YvonneCa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #240
249. This is a day to celebrate...
... a great strategy.
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-22-11 01:23 AM
Response to Reply #240
255. No one including FOX isn't going to argue that US military should serve
in Iraq without immunity.

Even the Iraq's can claim victory on principle.

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YvonneCa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #236
248. Homerun! n/t
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Fearless Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 09:29 PM
Response to Original message
233. And contractors and funding? What about that... Who cares if it's "the millitary"
If we still have people there or our money is still going there.
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Laura PourMeADrink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 10:10 PM
Response to Original message
237. I thought this day would come when they proved DimSon a liar - years
and years and years and years later. Thank GOD it's over

Now, out of Afghanistan...pronto
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ThoughtCriminal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 10:37 PM
Response to Original message
241. What about Poland?
:party: :toast: :party:
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ozone_man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 11:02 PM
Response to Original message
242. Meaning it is time to start war with Iran?
The Nobel peace price president must live up to his title.
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woo me with science Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #242
244. Today a very important story was in the paper.
The Super Committee is coming to consensus on a plan that will slash Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid in order to preserve the military industrial complex.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 11:45 PM
Response to Original message
250. END IRAQ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Quantess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-21-11 11:48 PM
Response to Original message
251. Aha... the election must be near!
Oh well, it's a long-awaited decision.

It's like a woman who loses weight to attract men, not because she cares about her health. Good move, no matter what the motivations are.
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southmost Donating Member (528 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-22-11 12:19 AM
Response to Original message
254. great!
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caseymoz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-22-11 04:03 AM
Response to Original message
257. I like it, except the State Department will have a private army there.

Made up of contractors, of course. A considerable force.

But it's better than it was.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-22-11 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #257
261. Of course. The American Empire must defend its borders. And our borders are vast.
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caseymoz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-22-11 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #261
269. Our spiritual borders. And our spirit is huge. We're Americans. nt
Edited on Sat Oct-22-11 11:35 AM by caseymoz
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Umbral Donating Member (969 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-22-11 09:37 AM
Response to Original message
263. The Obama Administration, unable to wrangle favorable legal concessions, reluctantly...
Edited on Sat Oct-22-11 09:39 AM by Umbral
abandons its Iraqi ambitions. Make no mistake, if the Iraqi Government had remained firmly under the thumb of the American Empire, troops would be staying long past this "Bush negotiated" withdrawal date. Don't hold your breath though, Panetta could still make it happen.
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-22-11 10:06 AM
Response to Original message
265. Awesome News! (nt)
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-22-11 10:22 AM
Response to Original message
266. Well gee. We must be broke and out of kids. No wonder I see regular protests at the abortion
Edited on Sat Oct-22-11 10:23 AM by lonestarnot
clinic.
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davidwparker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-22-11 11:21 AM
Response to Original message
268. K&R
Finally
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-22-11 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
271. Celebrating at my house today.
Kudos to Obama.

Now Make It So!!!
No more excuses.



You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their excuses.

Solidarity99!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Ash_F Donating Member (105 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-22-11 04:38 PM
Response to Original message
277. Good, now Afghanistan.
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mvd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-23-11 12:00 PM
Response to Original message
283. Great news! I give him credit
Now he needs to start withdrawing from Afghanistan, fix the Patriot Act, end his drone strike/execution of American citizens policy, close Guantanamo, and ease up on the little conflicts since those can get out of hand, too. Also crack down on the contractors and support the 2-state solution (IRT Israel/Palestine) with more action. Getting out of Iraq is a big step, and President Obama's foreign policy has improved our reputation worldwide. But still more work to do.
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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-23-11 09:13 PM
Response to Original message
287. About time he did something right.
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