Voters unable to have printed receipt (Florida)

[Judi Lynn]

Posted on Tue, Apr. 20, 2004

Voters unable to have printed receipt

Miami-Dade election officials say they can't install printers on the county's 7,200 voting machines in time for this year's presidential election because they lack state approval and the technology.

BY LUISA YANEZ

[email protected]


PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION

A proposal to add printers to Miami-Dade's touch screen voting machines by November's presidential election fizzled Monday. The culprit: The available technology is not state certified, election officials said.

''We simply cannot use the technology if it's not state certified, even if the printers were available,'' Supervisor of Elections Constance Kaplan told the County Commission's election subcommittee, while presenting the findings of a 309-page report.

Aware ''all eyes will be watching'' Miami-Dade in the upcoming presidential election, Commissioner Jimmy Morales had spearheaded an effort to install printers on the county's iVotronic machines, hoping the paper trail would restore more confidence in the process for Miami-Dade voters.

''It's hard to tell voters they can't have some sort of receipt when they vote. When you go to the ATM, you get a receipt; when you go the store, you get a receipt,'' Morales said Monday.
(snip/...)

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/breaking_news/8471447.htm

[whistle]

1. I'd rather have hanging chads than no receipt...

...This is a clear set-up. The junior pumpkin-head, Jeb Bush, is maneuvering to have another voting fiasco in November, if he and his cronies aren't stopped. Congress has to ban Diebold Co. :mad: :argh: :wtf: :grr:

[w4rma]

2. The Venezuelan right-wing don't like DRE voting even with receipts.

The Venezuelan right-wing reaction proves to me that the Republican leadership here in America plan on trying to steal the 2004 elections and probably stole many 2002 elections.

''We have no trust in these new machines. We are afraid they are preparing to cheat us, and we have reasons to be worried,'' said opposition congressman Edgar Zambrano.
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/8471517.htm
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x498504

Write Florida off. If voting isn't secure there by November, don't expect to win Florida, imho.

This is a good example of why Dems need to fight harder. Our very democracy is at stake in November, imho.

[hang a left]

3. No receipt no electoral votes-

Ef that certification bs. How many artlcles have I read about software being used in elections that hasn't been certified and patches that weren't certified. They like to run things down there their way, fuck em let them be a country.

[ZR2]

4. A receipt is totaly useless.

Anyone that can reprogram a machine to record the votes differently than they were entered, can also include in that program the ability to print the receipt as voted but still record the actual computer votes incorrectly.

Example, the votes chooses Kerry, the receipt says Kerry, but the machine records Bush.


It could even go as far as to be programmed to operate correctly until the exaxct date and time the polls open, then kick in the incorrect recording so as to bypass any security checks.

[cmd]

5. THAT is what the receipt is for

You have to have proof that the machine counted incorrectly.

[ZR2]

9. There are no provisions in Florida law

for a recount to check the receipts against the machine count unless the margin of difference between candidates is less than 1%, or there is overwhelming evidence of voter fraud.

[Just Me]

26. What if the voters gathered in DC with their receipts,...

,...and proved overwhelmingly via those receipts, voter machine F-R-A-U-D.

In my view, no paper trail is prima facie voter fraud,...and all those who oppose a paper trail are prima facie acting in bad faith, AT BEST, or with fraudulent intent, AT WORSE.

This electronic voting issue may be the straw that breaks the back of all those resisting outright revolution!!!

[progressivebydesign]

25. No.. it wouldn't be that at all...

If the computer tallied something else than was printed, you would NEVER know. Never.. most people would just assume that it was the other voters that pushed Bush over the top in voting. It's like trying to count the military injured from Iraq.. there is no central total.

[Jack Rabbit]

15. It takes only a few lines of computer code

And the code is private property. That's just wrong.

ASSIGN NumberOfVotesCast = NumberOfVotesCats + 1.

IF NumberOfVotesCast < SomeArbitraryNumber THEN
ASSIGN VotesForBush = VotesForBush + 1.
ENDIF.
ELSE DO:
CASE VoterSelect:
WHEN Bush ASSIGN VotesForBush = VotesForBush + 1.
WHEN Kerry ASSIGN VotesForKerry = VotesForKerry + 1.
WHEN Nader ASSIGN VotesForNader = VotesForNader + 1.
END CASE.
ENDELSE.

[Bandit]

21. Well all we can hope for is that the programers are Liberals

We will never ever again be sure of the election results. I believe it is of utmost importance that there be exit polling. In the past this has been a very reliable indicater except for Florida in 2000. That was the one and only time that exit polling was "wrong". Go Figure.

[soup]

6. Doug Lewis

Help me here, please. Why is that name raising major alarms?

from the article:

Although touch-screen machines cannot be hacked into from the outside because they are not connected to the Internet, Douglas Lewis, executive director of the nonprofit The Election Center, said a paper trail, in a way, makes the machines vulnerable.

''The truth remains that if you want to manipulate any election anywhere in the world, the best way to do it is still with a piece of paper,'' said Lewis, whose group advises elections supervisors nationwide.

Lewis said a voting machine with a paper trail may offer more complications.

``For example, if you get a paper trail, then you have to decide what to do when you have to do a recount. Are you going to recount the electronic vote or the paper vote? That can take a long time. Florida never finished recounting its paper votes in 2000.''

[peekaloo]

12. Bev Harris has mentioned him a few times

and questioned his background credentials. He seems to be a Diebold cheerleader (screw the inherent flaws let's give 'em good PR)....google R. Douglas Lewis and The Election Center....hmmmm.....based in Houston. :o

p.s. my browser bites this a.m. or I would have included a link.

[soup]

31. thanks, peekaloo!

R. Doug Lewis.

Found these bookmarked in the archives:

Who is this mystery man? What is he hiding?
BevHarris Jun-06-03
http://www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/duboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=10123&forum=DCForumID70&archive=

RIGHT NOW: DUers are reeling in a big fish -- NEW RESEARCH:
BevHarris Jun-06-03
http://www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/duboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=9978&forum=DCForumID70&archive=

Quicky research help? Your answer will be in Black Box Voting Book
BevHarris Jun-05-03
http://www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/duboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=9906&forum=DCForumID70&archive=

-----

and this one. Not about R. Doug Lewis specifically, but definitely worth mentioning:

AMERICA VIOLATED: ENCYCLOPEDIA OF COMPUTER FRAUD
TruthIsAll Jan-03-03
http://www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/duboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=26162&forum=DCForumID60&archive=

-----

Sorry it took so long to reply, I got lost wandering around in the archives.

[booksenkatz]

20. What a partisan prick!

Florida never finished recounting its paper votes in 2000 because the Soopreme Kort wouldn't let them! Once the statewide recount was underway, things were moving along quite well, and if I recall correctly, Gore had whittled that 500+ vote difference down to just a mere 100+. Whew! Good thing for Sandra Day O'Connor (remember her "Oh no!" on Election Night, when told that Gore had won Florida), the Soopremes stepped in just in time, to save petitioner Bush from harm!

Do people really believe that the paper vote is the least safe? Where I come from, we always keep important papers in file cabinets... they're called HARD COPIES. And we value the hell out of em. I have yet to see how an electronic vote is any safer than a paper vote.

And I'm not worried about hacking from the outside; I'm worried about hacking from the inside, cupcake!

/sick of these perpetrators of election fraud

[Zhade]

28. "...machines cannot be hacked into from the outside ..."

BWAHAHAHA! Who is this guy kidding?

Wireless? Hello?

Idiot.

''The truth remains that if you want to manipulate any election anywhere in the world, the best way to do it is still with a piece of paper,'' said Lewis, whose group advises elections supervisors nationwide.

That's a demonstrable lie. Fucking asshole.

[freetobegay]

7. State approval = Jeb Bush

NUFF SAID!

[dusty64]

8. Why does this not

surprise me at all.

[Tripper11]

10. This is so dumb...

here in Seattle they just unveiled these new "Parking Stations" that accept not only coins, but Visa and MC.

Here's the kicker..they give you a printed receipt!!!!!!!!

[mbperrin]

11. Well, sure, you can hardly expect a state government to be able to

decide if a printer works between April and November-that's ONLY seven months!

BTW, make sure your kids are ready to pass those important tests which will determine if they pass or not - you have 2 months for that!

How about - absentee voting on paper ballots only?

I would not vote on any machine without a physical trace. period.

[Warren Stuart]

13. Rob Georgia supposedly has come forward

Bev Harris last night stated that there will a big announcement sometime this morning.

[Raster]

14. one thing that can be done....

...exit polling. When practiced by a reputable media consortium the results were always accurate. It wasn't until black box voting that exit polling data were questioned. And the exit polling data was only questionable in those areas where the voting process and outcomes themselves were questionable. Think Georgia, think Max Cleland, think Nebraska. I maintain the exit data was correct. More voters did cast their votes for Max than his challenger, it was the results that were tampered with.

EVERYONE SHOULD BE SCREAMING AT THE TOP OF THEIR LUNGS OVER THIS!!! This is how the neocon fascist pigs expect to stay in power, by tampering with the election results. There's one thing I don't get, and that's why people in Florida aren't marching in the streets over this shit. They know--KNOW--that their election results were bogus, and yet, the electorate seem so complacent. I don't get it.

[Jack Rabbit]

16. Instead of Jews for Buchanan we'll have blacks for Bush

[SoCalDem]

17. What about a "shadow election"??

Couldn't dems just set up a table outside the "restricted" areas of all polling stations, and have Dems "re-vote" on paper, when they leave.. Just for congress/senate/president..

The press would certainly cover such a protest vote, and it would be very interesting if at a polling station of say...800 voters...if the "inside vote" was 600R-200D...and the outside vote was 500D-300R..

It would be very interesting too, if people were willing to vouch for their votes by having it notarized, on the spot.. I would not be ashamed to have my name attached to my votes..

The "beauty" in stealing elections is the anonymity.. Maybe the time has come to quit being anonymous.. There is no way to "prove" someone cheated, when people cannot be "found" later..

[tom_paine]

18. Florida has gone Bushevik-Bolshevik-Free-Market-Stalinist

With them firmly in the Grip of Bushevik Loyalists and their Stalin Voting Machines, I'm afraid I think there is a very high probability that the "vote" will also be rigged.

*****FLORIDIANS! WANT TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT? Go to www.blackboxvoting.org and VOLUNTEER for the Clean Voting Squad!

[loudsue]

19. We don't need a "receipt"! We need a PAPER BALLOT!!

Something that actually has legal standing within the Constitution. A person doesn't need to leave the polls with a "receipt". They need to leave a BALLOT at the polling place that can be RE-COUNTED when fraud is suspected.

The Doug Lewis Team is spinning this trying to throw around the word "receipt" (which rhymes with "deceit") just to throw people off the track. If they give in to a "receipt", we haven't "WON" a damn thing that will help us.

We need BALLOTS, and AUDITABLE vote systems, along with spot audits on several precincts, as a matter of course.

Don't buy into their "receipt" bullshit -- it's designed to move the power right back into their own hands, and take it out of the voter's hands.

:kick:

[maggrwaggr]

22. can we just kick Florida out of the Union?

as far as I'm concerned, Florida has no right being in the United States.

Fuck them, let them go, build a big wall at the state line and let them all rot in their red-neck festering swamp of hell.

[tkmorris]

23. And to hell with all the people there too huh?

Like all those who bust their butt trying to fix this mess. Me, for example. My wife. My 3 daughters too, who cares about them? We're in Florida so we're obviously scum. All those poor bastards who had their right to vote stolen, screw them too.

[Zhade]

29. You know, my family lives in Florida.

And they are staunchly progressive.

Thanks so much for painting them with your broad brush.

:eyes:

[Hand]

24. Hooo brother...

Reminds me of something one of Al Gore's advisors told him just before they went into the recount:

"Sir, you have to understand that Florida isn't like the rest of America. We're talking Guatemala here."

Fucking banana republic... only trouble is, the rest of America's starting to look a lot more like Florida...

:mad: :nuke:

[Just Me]

27. Seems like blackboards with videocams open to the world world,...

,...and "fuzzying" out voters' faces will be the only way ANYONE will trust the outcome of this election.

Now, tell me this country hasn't completely lost all credibility, everywhere,...even amongst ourselves!!!!

:cry:

"The love of money is the root of all evil."

"What have we become?"

[Judi Lynn]

30. Kick?

:kick: