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TomCADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 12:14 PM
Original message
Some in tea party declare war on Romney
Edited on Sun Sep-04-11 12:16 PM by TomCADem
Source: Washington Post

For some leaders in the tea party movement, the ongoing skirmish over whether presidential contender Mitt Romney should speak at a Tea Party Express rally in New Hampshire on Monday is anything but an internecine quarrel.

It is the opening shot, they say, in an all-out effort to make sure the former Massachusetts governor does not win the Republican nomination to challenge President Obama next year.

Whether they have the reach to win that battle is uncertain. Romney, despite his slip from front-runner status since Texas Gov. Rick Perry entered the GOP race, remains a formidable candidate with the most money and a deep organization and fundraising network. His weaknesses among conservatives most notably his support for a health-care overhaul in Massachusetts that became the basis for Obamas health-care plan are somewhat offset by his business acumen and moderation on social issues by those most motivated by beating Obama.

* * *
I think the message from the tea party in New Hampshire is, Were not useful idiots,  Kibbe said, repeating a phrase that has popped up increasingly in recent days to remind activists not to capitulate to the Republican establishment. Theres this long tradition in the Republican Party to simply elect the next guy in line. Thats how we got John McCain, and thats how we got Mitt Romney. If somebody says that early and often, you have a better potential to see if somebody can emerge as a true competitor to Romney.

Read more: http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/some-in-tea-part...



Oh oh. Romney has already promised to repeal Healthcare reform resembles the program he passed with Democrats in Massachusetts, and most recently he has abandoned his view that climate change has man made causes. Finally, Romney has endorsed a balanced budget amendment, and has pledged to reject any tax increases to promote deficit reduction even at a 10 to 1 ratio.

So, what's next? Does he start denying that the world is flat? Perhaps he will convert and start taking communion.

Still, the one thing Romney has in his favor is that he is the Wall Street establishment candidate. As the former head of Bain Capital, Romney has millions behind for the primary and election.
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
1. The more the teabaggers hate him, the more I hope he becomes the nominee--
Edited on Sun Sep-04-11 12:17 PM by TwilightGardener
just in case what I WANT to happen doesn't happen, if you get my drift...Simply put, everyone besides Romney and Huntsman are complete effin' psychos.
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TomCADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. I Don't. Romney Has Shown A Willingness To Go Bat S*&t Crazy...
Edited on Sun Sep-04-11 12:25 PM by TomCADem
...to solidify support on the right. Ironically, Rick Perry was able to talk down right wingers in Texas against passing an Arizon type law against immigration because he had right wing credibility. Unfortunately with Romney, he is very, very likely to suck up to the Tea Party types in Congress who will try to force him to carry out his various right wing campaign promises. For example, the balanced budget amendment.

The problem with Romney is that he will over compensate to consolidate support on the right while more right wing candidates might have credibility to take things slow. Think of Governor Schwarzenegger in California. In order to try to consolidate support on the right, he supported a series of union busting propositions in his first year in office.
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Any "friendliness" or tolerance Perry has shown toward immigration
is purely for business purposes, so I don't see that as consequential. I think they'll both mostly do as they're programmed. But I don't think Mittens hears voices in his head--he's less likely to be a theocrat.
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TomCADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. He Reminds Me Of A Poor-Man's Schwarzenegger....
Schwarzenegger at least had the advantage of being a celebrity who people liked. Romney has Gore-like charisma, but nice perfectly coifed hair. What really worries me about Romney is that if Schwarzenegger was willing to sponsor a whole series of anti-union propositions right at the outset of his tenure in order to consolidate his support on the right in a BLUE STATE, what will Romney due in the White House!

Unlike Perry, Romney has less good will with the Tea Party types. Perry may be crazy, but he can stall for time. Romney will get incredible pressure to immediately prove to the right wing wackos that he is as conservative as he says he is, which means that for the first few years, we can get some seriously wacky legislation.

Remember, Romney only ran for one term in Massachusetts with a Democratic dominated legislature. In the White House, with a Tea Party crazed house, he can do some scary things.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Less likely to be a theocrat? A Mormon? I disagree.
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. I've known quite a few Mormons. I've even lived in their Mothership State for a time.
I have not observed unreasonably religious behavior from any of them in the normal conduct of day's business or in social settings. I'm seriously more afraid of fundies.
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BadtotheboneBob Donating Member (219 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 10:09 PM
Response to Reply #8
20. Mitt's father as Governor of Michigan wasn't a theocrat...
... Actually, he was quite popular overall. His faith was never an issue from what I remember. He was also a fervent supporter of the civil rights movement which the LDS leadership severely criticized him for. His governorship was deemed very successful. This certainly isn't an endorsement, but I'm just stating facts.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 04:29 AM
Response to Reply #20
23. If Mitt's Dad were running and this were 1962, that might be comfort However, Mitt is not his dad,
Edited on Mon Sep-05-11 05:28 AM by No Elephants
and it's 2011. I don't know much about Mitt's dad, but Mitt himself was my Governor, so I know a bit about him.

First, though tTimes and politics have changed dramatically since Mitt's daddy was Governor.

For one thing, although I don't know for sure, I very much doubt that the Mormon church was blatantly financing campaigns against ballot initiatives in 1962.

At that time, the less a politician made it obvious that he was not a garden variety WASP, the better, especially in Presidential politics.

For example, JFK's being Irish was not such an obstacle in Charlestown, when he ran for Congress. However, it was still a problem with Boston Brahmins. among whom had to fight BOTH "shanty Irish with a whisky fortune" AND "Roman Catholic." Of course, his Catholicism was a huge issue when he ran for President; and Roman Catholic was not nearly off the beaten track then as was Mormonism. So, I am not surprised Mitt's Daddy did not make an issue of it.

That's all changed, though, to the point where Bill Clinton and the DLC website are singing the praises of Democrats bringing their respective faiths into political campaigns (another DLC idea that will, IMO, backfire).

The likes of Falwell and Reed worked for decades after Griswold v. Connecticut and Roe v. Wade to change all that, until we got Dummya. In fact, I saw Dummya announcing his candidacy for the Presidency on religious tv, with a Pentecosteal preacher, before I heard of it in secular media.

And, it was after we got Dummya that Mitt Eomney began to show his true colors, too. Until then, his overweening ambition had had him vying with Kennedy in the 1990's for a liberal mantle.

Also, when Mitt ran last time, he was asked about his son's serving the country in the military. He replied about how they had been Mormon missionaries and worked in his campaigns, as though both those things were serving the country. If that isn't being oblivious to a distinction between church and state, then I'm not sure what might be.

Finally, I don't know much about Mitt's Daddy. However, he did march with Martin Luther King, Jr., even though that might have made him unpopular--and not only with Mormons. Mitt, on the other hand, lied about having marched with Martin Luther King, Jr.

Mitt also lied about how he had to pull over to the side of the road on his way to Harvard as a student and wept when he heard on the radio that Mormons had changed their official white supremacist policy. (Problem is, Mitt was already out of grad school at that time and working in private business, so I guess the announcment didn't really impress him so much that he remembered anything about what he was doing when he heard it.)

Maybe that contrast shows a big difference in the character of the two men, even though they were father and son and both Mormons. Like eras of time, people are not interchangeable, either, even fathers and sons.

In sume, some of the reasons that I would steer far clear of Mitt:

1/ brought up in institutional racism with no sign that Mitt divorced himself from it,

2/ failure to distinguish between serving church versus serving state

3/ homophobic measures and other defects in his governing of Massachusetts,

4/ Overall sacrifice of honesty and principle to personal ambition--will say ANYthing he believes will help him get elected. In all, you simply cannot trust the man to be who he says he is or do what he says he will, instead of the direct opposite.

And, as stated above, I don't believe what his father did in 1962 is any indication of what Mitt will do in 2013.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 04:28 AM
Response to Reply #8
22. That just shifted the goalposts. You said "theocrats" which means religious beliefs in governing.
As in outlawing gay marriage, which Romney would have loved to do in Massachusetts. I think he did, or campaigned for, outlawing adoption by gays in Massachusetts as well.

I could care less what he did in his business or social dealings. I care a lot about having his--or anyone's-- religious beliefs imposed upon me by law, even my own religious beliefs.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 05:43 AM
Response to Reply #8
24. P.S. Fundies are not limited to one religion or sect. I've met fundie Jews and fundie Catholics, as
well as fundie Pentecostals and fundie non-denominationalists. Besides, one Mormon is not interchangeable with all other Mormons.

Please see Reply 23.

Moreover, it is not unusual for a religious sect that is not mainstream to be secretive about their religious beliefs and doings, as Mormons indeed used to be.

I know of a sect of, of all things, Episcopalian, that used to pray that their existence would not come to the attention of the people who lived around them. Further, like many on the far religious right, they believed it was their duty to lie to protect themselves. No one in the banks, stores and other places in town that they worked for knew much about them. As for their social dealings, true socializing was confined to their own. The rest was what was considered useful for their group's purposes and would be terminated instantaneously on the word of a leader.

So, I am not at all surprised that Mormons, who had every reason for a tradition of secrecy, did not reveal much in their business dealings with "the world."
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AVoiceInTheDark Donating Member (5 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-10-11 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #8
29. I disagree - Mormon reps absolutely deceive to accomplish Church goals
I live near a proposed LDS Temple site in Fort Collins CO. The temple was originally announced to be 17,000 square feet to "softly" introduce the idea to the general public. Then once the specific site was chosen it changed to 27,000 square feet (few outside the affected neighborhood now care since it's not in their backyard). At an HOA meeting for a neighborhood right next to the proposed site the LDS representative implied the Church was trying to work with the neighbors by making themselves available in early October, "far in advance of any of the City of Fort Collins hearings" -- yet all the while the most important meeting was at the county level, and that meeting was September 6. He also stated the largest room held 50 individuals and implied there would be almost no impact in traffic -- apparently, there are several rooms that hold 50 individuals. The parking lot size has also changed from 200, to 475 (loud outcry) to 275. As I experience the disparity between LDS developers and what I thought were LDS values, I have to wonder what an LDS presidential candidate would say to become president, then what he would do after becoming president.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Romney will say and do ANYthing he believes will help him get elected.
And, if elected--which he won't be--he will probably say to do ANYthing he believes will help him get re-elected.

The man would not know a principle if it stood him on his head.
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. I know that. For me, it's the difference between BAD (Romney) and DISASTER
(someone who believes God is telling him or her what to do).
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. FWIW, I don't even believe Bush thought God was speaking to him and calling him.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 05:45 AM
Response to Reply #9
25. I don't either, but your personal beliefs and mine didn't much matter, did they?
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 05:47 AM
Response to Reply #7
26. You've missed my point. I don't believe you have any valid basis for knowing what Romney may
Edited on Mon Sep-05-11 05:54 AM by No Elephants
or may not believe. Or for even assuming you know.

People who do extreme things, and have their kids do them, in the name of religion do generally believe they are carrying out God's will.

That is in contrast with Dummya, who professed to believe that he had been "called" to run for the Presidency, but then didn't even bother to attend church when there was not a photo op or special occasion.

That is very different from serving your missionary years, having your son serve them, wear special undies daily, etc., even though that might hurt your obviously very compelling political aspirations.

Democrats have no purity tests like the modern religious right has had. And being Mormon doesn't pass them. So, why would any Republican politician who wants to be President even profess Mormonism without really believing he knows what God wants of him?
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russspeakeasy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #4
15. A very nice summary of "The Mitten", No Elephants..
:beer:
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 05:58 AM
Response to Reply #15
27. Thanks. I've added some bits since I've seen a couple of the responses. See, for example, Reply 23
If you are interested.

This guy was my Governor when part of a Big Dig tunnel fell down and killed someone.

What did Romney do about it? Why, he had the very same contractors who were responsible for building the tunnel inspect it and declare it safe for travelers to pass through.

I'm sure he appreciated their campaign donations, too.
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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #1
10. I agree ... but at least I hope there is a good knock down drag out between them.
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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 01:29 PM
Response to Original message
11. "He worships Mammon, and that's cool, but not Moloch. That's uncool." - RepubliCon Occutists (R)
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johncoby2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 02:05 PM
Response to Original message
12. Rick Perry is the teabaggers candidate. The Primary is over.
Count on it. The teabaggers own the republican party in the primary. there is absolutely NO WAY anyone one close to a moderate will get the nomination.

Perry is the master of ignorance and the tea party is the party of ignorance.
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Chipper Chat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. When Rush Limbaugh endorses Perry....
...it's really over. No one else will have a stinkin' chance. Bye bye Sarah and Mitt.
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Bryn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 03:43 PM
Response to Original message
13. Why does MSM always shine on a small group of
Edited on Sun Sep-04-11 03:43 PM by Bryn
misspelled signs waving teapotters? Fuck Media!
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dimbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 06:27 PM
Response to Original message
16. Some truth in their opinions. They aren't useful idiots. It's just that
they don't see which one word in that phrase is wrong.
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Ebadlun Donating Member (24 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 07:00 PM
Response to Original message
17. Not useful idiots?
So, useless idiots then,
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 07:47 PM
Response to Original message
18. I am torn
On one hand, he is the only electable Republican. I hope.

Because what if a Bachmann or Perry became President?

Think about Reagan on steroids

But on the other hand, if we can keep Obama as President, we get business as usual

Make of that what you will...

But we can't afford an American Hitler (Bachmann or Perry)

THAT would kill us, quite literally
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-11 06:06 AM
Response to Reply #18
28. I have faith that the American people will reject a Bachman.
Not so sure about Perry.

Remember, he was a Democrat for most of his life. Even ran one of Gore's Texas campaigns. So, he may know what to say to appeal to moderates, though he hasn't shown much signs of that yet--but it's still the primary. (BTW, please do point out all his Democratic years and doings to your very RW friends, including that, even after becoming a Republican, he wrote Hillary an encouraging letter about Hillarycare, model for Romneycare and Obamacare.)

Romney, though? I KNOW Romney knows how to appeal to Democrats and moderates and is willing to lie about his beliefs because he made it to Governor of Massachusetts, much to my chagrin.

I most worry about Romney's becoming the candidate because I believe Romney will give Obama the biggest run for his money, literally and figuratively. Hell, he almost got Kennedy's senate seat-- while Kennedy was still alive and running for it himself.

Defeating a Kennedy in Massachusetts would have been no small feat, and he came close.
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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 09:53 PM
Response to Original message
19. Oh I so hope a teapartier wins the nomination.
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Auntie Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-11 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. That would really be a blessing. nt
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