Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Phone taps target Chavez opponents in Venezuela

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Latest Breaking News Donate to DU
 
sabbat hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-11 09:17 AM
Original message
Phone taps target Chavez opponents in Venezuela
Source: CBS News.com/AP

(AP) CARACAS, Venezuela President Hugo Chavez's political rivals are on notice that anything they say over the phone might be not only recorded by eavesdroppers but also played and flaunted on national television.

Though wiretapping without a court order is illegal in Venezuela, such recordings have been surfacing on state TV and radio and have become a standard tactic in attempts to ridicule and embarrass opposition politicians.

Oswaldo Alvarez Paz, a longtime Chavez adversary and a presidential hopeful, denounced what he called "dirty tactics" by the government after state media this month aired recordings of him and an activist gossiping over the phone and complaining about other anti-Chavez politicians.
......




Read more: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/08/19/ap/latinameri...



Chavez is claiming his opponents are tapping their own phone lines and making the conversations public and are trying to make the government look bad.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-11 09:20 AM
Response to Original message
1. This is not phone tapping. This is bringing freedom to the free peoples of the revolution.
Long live Dear Leader!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BadtotheboneBob Donating Member (219 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-11 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. What next?
A Gulag for the 'Enemies of the Revolution'?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-11 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #5
13. Somebody posts that every time one of these bs stories is printed.
Remember the time he stole the oil rig? Except he didn't. Or the time he stole a four star hotel? Except it belonged to Venezuela. Or the time he declared war on golf? Except it was bs. Or the time he said the US caused the Haitian earthquake with a machine? Except that was the Russian Navy, not Chavez.

But some people can't resist the hook, the line or the sinker. :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Spider Jerusalem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-11 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #13
24. Rule by decree? Imprisoning judges? Court-packing that would make FDR blush?
Really, Chavez has done quite enough that only an apologist could defend his actions as having "democratic legitimacy".
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-11 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Baloney.
The period of rule by decree was democratically agreed upon unlike our own president's signing statements. And, what is the alternative to imprisoning corrupt judges? Should Venezuela allow them to sit as we do?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Spider Jerusalem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-11 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. Stuff like this you mean?
Edited on Fri Aug-19-11 01:50 PM by Spider Jerusalem
http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-updates/venezuela-ur...

See also noted right-wing apologist Noam Chomsky's comment on the above here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jul/03/noam-chomsk...

Or this? http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-updates/venezuelan-g...

The only "baloney" I see here is your apologism for Chavez' undemocratic tendencies and use of the machinery of government to stifle dissent, really.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-11 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. Chomsky was wrong on this one and I don't blame him
for his construction of the situation.

And as the right wing, anti-democratic, life-long trade unionist Lula said, you can fault Chavez on a lot of things but not on democracy.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sabbat hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-11 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #25
33. it was agreed upon
by a legislature packed with his cronies.

And signing statements are different than ruling by decree. Bush abused them, but they have been used before bush for many years and will continue to be used (by both democratic and republican presidents)

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bodhi BloodWave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-11 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. since i can't recall the timeline to well
Edited on Fri Aug-19-11 02:23 PM by Bodhi BloodWave
was that the legislature that was created because a number of people decided not to run, then claimed voting mischief/shenanigans to try and weaken Chavez, a claim that was found to be lies/false by independent investigators/groups?


If so what do you expect, i mean if we were to have an election in the US and a majority of republicans decided not to run in most states would that mean the US president just got a bunch of democratic cronies elected in the senate?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
saras Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-11 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. Well, yes, as a matter of fact the DLC/reps would see it that way - an infestation of progressives
...that needs to be rooted out by any possible means, legal or not.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-11 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #33
45. That's what you call the elections in Venezuela?
How very democratic of you. I understand how someone from the working class who has a map of Latin America all over his face upsets some people simply by having an office at Miraflores. :evilgrin:

And I never claimed only Republicans use signing statements.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ChangoLoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-11 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #13
40. Do you really think this is a lie? Opponents' taped conversations are aired on public TV
..quite frequently.

I posted these links in the LA forum 5 minutes ago:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bacchus39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-11 09:37 AM
Response to Original message
2. think we'll see an investigation?
not
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-11 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #2
7. LOL. If there is an investigation, you will say it was rigged. n/t
Edited on Fri Aug-19-11 10:22 AM by EFerrari
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bacchus39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-11 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #7
29. there won't be an investigation. the justice system is worthless
its only used to prosecute political opponents, certainly not to investigate administration crimes and corruption.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-11 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. See?
lmao
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bacchus39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-11 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #31
38. ummmm I said there won't be an investigation
I didn't say if there is an investigation it will be rigged.

however, I would welcome one. just like you I assume. I'd love to be wrong on this one.

p.s. lol
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
robcon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-11 09:44 AM
Response to Original message
3. Stalin updated. That's Chavez.
n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-11 09:53 AM
Response to Original message
4. K&R #3 (no telling how many got "disappeared" before) for, NOooo, it *can't* be!1
Oh, well, consider the SOURCE:  CBS News, that propaganda, CIA
certified conduit of disinformation!1
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jwirr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-11 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #4
20. Well while you are telling us about disappearing people why don't
you talk about our CIA involvement in the shock doctrine/disaster capitalism era that was part of our policy toward these countries for years? We helped disappear as many people as anyone down there and we were not their elected government - we were just the people who helped to overthrow their elected governments so we could put Pinochet (sp?) type leaders in their place.

We need to keep our noses out of other countries. We have already done enough damage.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-11 10:21 AM
Response to Original message
6. Why do people always believe what these Venezuelan teabagger claim?
It's unreal.

Uribe's people next door are in a full scale government meltdown over phone tapping and Uribe's criminals were in bed with the Venezuelen opposition. Chavez is likely telling the truth.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SnakeEyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-11 10:23 AM
Response to Original message
8. So who wants to keep defending him?
Excuse this time?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-11 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. No problem. In 2002, the opposition was caught on tape
Edited on Fri Aug-19-11 10:37 AM by EFerrari
shooting into a crowd, editing the tape and airing it on television (which they owned) as Chavez's forces doing the shooting.

You think they won't fake a little phone tapping?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-11 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #12
44. Shooting into a crowd?
Sounds like you've seen an biased edit as well.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Proletariatprincess Donating Member (527 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-11 10:26 AM
Response to Original message
9. Chavez rivals include CIA and foreign nationals...
I don't find this story particularly disturbing given that there has already been a failed USA sponsored coup in Venezuela.
Just imagine what Homeland Security would do in the USA if it had such an enemy in it's midst determined to overthrow the government. Phones are already tapped here for much less reason.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sabbat hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-11 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #9
14. So you think it is ok
to have warrantless wiretaps to spy on your political opponents?


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-11 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #14
22. Except you don't know if that happened. You know that is the claim.
And historically, it's the Venezuelan teabaggers that pull that stuff, not Chavez. It could be true but it's likely not true.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
saras Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-11 10:33 AM
Response to Original message
10. It looks like they're adopting the techniques of other successful countries...
...after coming to terms with the fact, which Americans haven't yet, that there is a profound difference between treason and legitimate political opposition. When America gets serious about prosecuting right-wing traitors, I'll take US criticism of Venezuela seriously.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sabbat hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-11 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #10
15. This isn't US criticism
but a news story.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-11 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #15
32. "He said he isn't sure who is tapping his phones
but he's certain they are working for the government and suspects the state phone company is complicit."

That's hard news, right there. :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ChangoLoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-11 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #32
41. Who else can tape the phones of so many opponents and air the tapings to public TV?
You know La Hojilla, right?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-11 11:51 PM
Response to Reply #41
43. Yup but this kind of thing is more like the Guccis than like the government. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ChangoLoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-20-11 09:13 AM
Response to Reply #43
48. It benefits Chavez, it's aired on Chavez TV and it needs an intelligence service infrastructure
Remember it's not one taped conversation but many, regularly.

When Lista Tascon was issued with the names of millions of citizens who had signed against Chavez, the government too claimed it was the opposition itself who had given them those names. That time too it was not only absurd but impossible since the names were obtained in the National Electoral Council and, as it was discovered afterwords, by chavista deputy Tascon. Many thousands of public servants were fired because of that (2 in my own family) and theoretically it's a severely punished crime.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-11 10:33 AM
Response to Original message
11. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
bitchkitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-11 11:06 AM
Response to Original message
16. Probably right wing projection.
If you want to know what the right wing is up to, just listen to their accusations.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
robcon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-11 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. Probably more Chavista denials.
For some DUers, Chavez is a hero no matter how many opposition media outlets he closes down, no matter haw he uses the judiciary as his attack political opponents, and now despite his tapping of his opponents' telephones.

The words "useful idiots" was created to define these people.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bitchkitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-11 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. Probably more fascist denials.
For some DUers, Chavez is a villain no matter how many poor people get fed, no matter how he uses his power to benefit the people who elected him, and now despite the obvious attempts to discredit him with yet another moronic hatchet job.

The words "fucking morons" were created to define these people.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jwirr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-11 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #17
21. Our CIA taught them all those little tricks in the 60s, Why should we care
if they use them for other than what we wanted them to do.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-11 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #21
46. The CIA taught the right wing.
KGB taught the left wing.

Not that there's much of a difference, aside from the *amount* of torture and murder.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
saras Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-11 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #17
37. Given the fascist illegality of much of his "opposition", he should use the police and military
Uunfortunately they haven't yet allowed the country to become civilized enough that they have a trustworthy police and military to serve the public interest.

Once the felons are out of the system, they can loosen up to match any European democracy, but they'd be stupid to imitate America until we get control over our business criminals.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-11 11:25 AM
Response to Original message
19. From the material released it sounds like it could as easily be a power-play
between anti-Chavez camps.

You'll note that the content of the conversation makes the anti-Chavistas look bad, not Chavez. May be somebody trying to kill two birds with one recording - Chavez and Paz. The natural suspect would be the opposition that Paz was dissing on.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ChangoLoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-11 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #19
42. They've been showing taped phone conversations on public TV for years.
With many different opponents.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dreamer Tatum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-11 01:08 PM
Response to Original message
23. Nothing new here.
Poor, besieged, put-upon, sweet little kitten Hugo Chavez is being unfairly maligned by THE ENTIRE WORLD.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-11 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #23
30. No, not the entire world. The world does just fine with him.
It's just the same thugs that we support in Venezuela with USAID $$$, the ones that sell out their own people without blinking. :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU GrovelBot  Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-11 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
28. ## PLEASE DONATE TO DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND! ##



This week is our third quarter 2011 fund drive. Democratic Underground is
a completely independent website. We depend on donations from our members
to cover our costs. Please take a moment to donate! Thank you!

Click here to donate

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
devilgrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-11 02:19 PM
Response to Original message
34. Rupert Murdoch works for Chavez?
BTW.... what bullshit this article is.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ChangoLoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-20-11 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #34
49. The Venezuelan Intelligence services work for Chavez. Public TV shows the tapings regularly
You can also think it's the opponents themselves sending their conversations to the government... after all, the intelligence services haven't admitted it :eyes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYFPNp3ytNI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49nfMY_w-0Q&feature=rela...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uo531U-Z4QM&feature=rela...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8Z4wyIKq90&feature=rela...

This is the show where they show the tapings: la Hojilla
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-19-11 11:09 PM
Response to Original message
39. I seem to recall something called Carnivore
Where our spy agencies snoop on pretty much everything.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-20-11 12:14 AM
Response to Reply #39
47. Carnivore was a selective packet sniffer. Not the same thing.
Basically, Carnivore was tcpdump with some granular filters.... something that most network/sysadmin types have been using since, well, we've had networks and sysadmins.

For the non-geeks, Carnivore basically just watched internet traffic, and grabbed important bits.... not phone calls, faxes, etc., because those usually don't go through an ISP.

That being said, we have basically the same snooping capabilities as everybody else does, as globalization of IT leveled the playing field across every place that has electricity, and a literate populace, and a non-censored internet.

However: What matters is how, and when, and why, snooping is used. In this case, (government run) media is selectively broadcasting (government run telephone system) phone calls, which seems to have the goal of embarrassing the (current government's) opposition.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-20-11 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #47
52. It's the same thing but different
And ok when we do it, because of these differences.

Their snooping bad, our snooping good. Got it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-20-11 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #52
53. Snooping isn't publication.
False equivalence is false.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-20-11 10:59 AM
Response to Original message
50. This is an Associated Pukes article. Watch out for Puke lies, disinformation and "framing."
The Associated Pukes earned its new name by promulgating Venezuelan Puke charges against Chavez, which are written by subcontractors at the USAID/CIA, and funneled through USAID-funded rightwing groups in Venezuela to the Puke media. Thus, our war machine gets a drum-beat of false headlines and lede lines against Chavez, lo these many years--ever since the U.S.-supported coup d'etat in 2002 failed to accomplish its purpose: installation of a government that would give Exxon Mobil all the profits from Venezuela's oil--THE biggest oil reserve on earth (twice Saudi Arabia's, according to the USGS)--rather than a leftist government, which insists on about half the profits going to education, medical care, grants/loans to small businesses, pensions for the elderly, land reform and other help to the people of Venezuela.

Chavez is not a "dictator." He is not even close to being a "dictator." But the fact that our war machine wants you to believe it is very, very worrisome, indeed.

Unfortunately--tragically--many of those who read/see Associated Pukes' 'news' stories superficially (without consciousness of how they are being manipulated) may well wake up some day to the shocking reality of Oil War II: South America. Beloved sons and daughters in uniform dying in the Caribbean, in the Andes, in the Amazon jungle, in the border areas between Colombia and Venezuela and in the many Pentagon "forward operating locations" in their "Southern Command." Dying for Exxon Mobil. Dying so that all the oil gets sucked into our war machine and all the profits pad the pockets of the biggest corporation on earth. And billions and billions of our tax dollars headed down yet another corporate/war profiteer rat hole, adding to the billions and billions already spent on setting this war up.

And, believe me, it IS a war plan on the Pentagon's Big Dartboard, with many war assets already in place--including the Bush Junta's reconstitution of the U.S. 4th Fleet (mothballed since WW II) in the Caribbean, USAF spying bases on the Dutch islands right off Venezuela's oil coast, a new U.S./Colombia military base overlooking the Gulf of Venezuela only 20 miles from the Venezuelan border, many other U.S. military bases and "forward operating locations" in Colombia, U.S. military bases in Honduras secured by a rightwing coup d'etat and new ones being created as we speak, and more. The Pentagon has been preparing for "full spectrum" military activity against its "enemies" in Latin America including "countries hostile to the U.S."

That is the worst case scenario for what this particular Associated Pukes 'news' article is about, as one of numerous similar articles aimed at creating a bogeyman "dictator" with which to put everyone to sleep while the war machine takes the oil.

But there is a subplot in progress that is the context and background of this particular article. The Bush Junta had basically a Mob Boss, Alvaro Uribe, running Colombia over the last decade. When you add up all that Uribe was doing, it is nothing less than Murder, Inc.--and it very likely had the purpose of consolidating and directing the trillion+ dollar cocaine revenue stream out of Colombia, along with ridding the country of its labor union leaders and other dissenters, and padding the pockets of U.S. and Colombian war profiteers.

Among other things, Uribe was using the powers of government for vast, illegal, domestic spying--even spying on judges and prosecutors--and the victims of this spy operation were being murdered and/or receiving death threats and other intimidation from the rightwing paramilitary death squads that Uribe is closely associated with (and has been from the beginning of his career). Colombian prosecutors are after him for it. They just arrested his second-in-command of the spying operation. His spy chief, Maria Hurtado--wanted by the Colombian prosecutors--has fled to Panama, where she received instant asylum from Panama's RW president (probably with U.S. help). And FIVE members of a Colombian legislative committee investigating this spying operation--which has called Uribe to testify--have resigned from the committee, two of them admitting that they resigned because of death threats, with death threats the probable reason for the other resignations.

This is an ENORMOUS scandal in Colombia. And there are very likely connectable "dots" to the U.S./Bush Junta. The U.S. military and U.S. military 'contractors' have been on-the-ground in Colombia throughout Uribe's criminal reign, providing "training" and "technical assistance" to the Colombian military along with the USAID (CIA) and other U.S. agencies. Uribe and the U.S. ambassador (Bush appointee Wm. Brownfield) worked closely together.

One hint of what might have been going on--as to U.S. assistance with the spying (and thus with murder and a reign of terror)--occurred in 2009-2010, when Uribe and Brownfield secretly negotiated, and secretly signed, a U.S./Colombia military agreement giving "total diplomatic immunity" to all U.S. military personnel and all U.S. military 'contractors' in Colombia. The agreement was thrown out by the Colombian supreme court, but it indicates their intent. (Why would the U.S. military need such protection more than a decade into the U.S. military presence in Colombia?)

Another hint comes from a Wikileaks cable, which discloses that Panama's RW president demanded U.S. help in spying on his "enemies." (He is a Uribe pal. Is that where he got the idea that the U.S. would spy for him?).

A third hint that the U.S. is culpable in this spying scandal is the length to which the U.S. has gone to protect and even coddle Uribe, including the midnight extraditions of 30 death squad witnesses to the U.S., on mere drug charges, and their burial in the U.S. federal prison system (by complete sealing of their cases), out of the reach of Colombian prosecutors and over their vociferous objections, and Uribe getting cushy academic sinecures at Georgetown and Harvard (no doubt teaching our future leaders about the law not applying to the rich and powerful and CIA "made men"). Uribe--whom Colombian prosecutors are investigating, and 70 of whose closest cohorts are under investigation or already in jail for ties to the death squads, drug trafficking, bribery, election fraud, land theft, ponzi schemes and other crimes--thus gets his image "laundered" here in the U.S. (and seems to be planning a return to power in Colombia).

Yet another hint of what the U.S./Bush Junta may have been doing in Colombia occurred early this year: The U.S. State Department "fined' Blackwater for "unauthorized" "trainings" of "foreign persons" IN COLOMBIA "for use in Iraq and Afghanistan. (I don't believe the word "unauthorized.")

Now consider this Associated Pukes article --one of their more inferior productions, as to propaganda (a child could deconstruct its innuendos)--which tries to paint a picture of illicit government spying next door in Venezuela. This article is FLAK. Flak is scattershot meant to confuse the enemy. You and I are the enemy. We are supposed to get a FUZZY impression of illicit government doings across the political spectrum in LatAm, to deflect attention away from these godawful doings in Colombia. The article also gives fodder to RW bloggers to chime in, once again, about "dictator Chavez" --to aid in the buildup of a bogeyman, if and when our war machine needs it.

Thousands of innocent people have been murdered in Colombia--trade unionists, human rights workers, teachers, community activists, peasant farmer leaders, Indigenous leaders and others--by Uribe's criminal network--a network that included top government officials, local officials and the RW paramilitaries in the field, as well as Colombian military commanders and units. The Colombian military itself slaughtered about half the trade unionists, according to Amnesty International, with the paramilitaries slaughtering the other half--all funded with at least $7 BILLION in U.S. military aid, politically supported by the Bush Junta and given "training" and "technical" assistance by the Pentagon, the USAID and other agencies (CIA, DEA, FBI, et al). And the other thing Uribe was doing was driving FIVE MILLION peasant farmers from their lands, with state terror--a human displacement crisis that has surpassed the Sudan in magnitude. (This in particular was related to the cocaine trade, in my opinion--driving the peasants off, giving the lands over to big drug lords.)

There is no equivalency here, even if the Chavez government is spying on opponents (which will likely turn out to be bogus like all the other Venezuelan 'tea party'/USAID bullshit). These are more than likely charges concocted to create an impression of equivalency, so that unsuspecting consumers of the crapola news will be immunized to the horror story next door in Colombia, which has been leaking out here and there but is generally ignored by the crapola media.

I have been closely watching this anti-Chavez campaign in the crapola media since the mid-2000s. I do not call the Associated Press the Associated Pukes as a joke. I mean it literally. They are rightwing extremists in the service of badass transglobal corporations and war profiteers, and their crap journalism is serving the purposes of murder, mayhem and theft on an unprecedented scale--in Colombia and other places. We cannot trust their news reports on anything--including Venezuela, which this war machine will turn into Colombia, if they can--mountains of dead leftist bodies, rightwing criminals in charge.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pretzel4gore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-20-11 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #50
51. "Nothing fails like success when you're working for the devil'
i think it was Che Guevera said that about the anti-revolutionaries who, in defiance of their own kids' future hopes, tried to help the fascisti commit their endless crimes and then bury them (or better yet blame the crimes on the revolution!)....please keep up the good fight- even Jesus H will thank you, because fascism is like crap: it rolls downhill and it also floats if/when it falls into sea! Iow, it's easy for fascism to succeed, because lies are always easier to spread then complicated truth (as ancient wisdom says)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Wed Aug 27th 2014, 04:18 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Latest Breaking News Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC