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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 09:01 PM
Original message
Chavez Threatens to Stop Selling Oil to US if It Doesn't Stop intervening
Edited on Sun Apr-18-04 09:07 PM by NNN0LHI
http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGAJ6EDW7TD.html

Chavez Threatens to Stop Selling Oil to U.S. if It Doesn't Stop "intervening" in Venezuelan Affairs

CARACAS, Venezuela (AP) - Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez threatened to stop selling oil to the United States if Washington doesn't stop "intervening in Venezuela's domestic affairs."


"In (President) Bush's case, he should cease the madness of directly intervening Venezuela's internal affairs. That would spark a conflict here, and it would be absurd to continue selling oil to them," Chavez told the Italian newspaper Liberazione in comments published Sunday by Venezuela's state news agency, Venpres.

Chavez did not specify what he meant by "directly intervening." In the past, he has accused the United States of being behind a failed April 2002 coup against him and of sponsoring current efforts to overthrow his leftist government.

Washington repeatedly denies the claims.

more

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BadGimp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 09:04 PM
Response to Original message
1. I give this guy 120 days
Threatening Bush and his cabel is one thing. Threatenging them about Oil.. bad voo doo.

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0rganism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #1
33. Yup. I sense either assasination or invasion in the works.
Chavez has been a thorn in the BFEE's side for quite a while. And the power-play with Carmona didn't work anywhere near as well in Venezuela as it did in Haiti. The shit is headed for the fan.

If they can pull an Allende, they will.

Otherwise, they'll claim Chavez is harboring terrorists and invade outright.
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AngryAmish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 09:07 PM
Response to Original message
2. Very dumb to threaten not to sell to US
Not as strategy. Just dumb. Oil is one of the most fungible commodities (I know crude comes in various grades, but light sweet is more or less standard.)

So he refuses to sell to US. Since crude is a commodity the US will, wait for it, get it somewhere else.

What a maroon.
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Election in November + higher gas prices if Chavez withholds oil.
Edited on Sun Apr-18-04 09:12 PM by w4rma
The GOP leadership probably doesn't want this right now because higher gas prices means less votes for the ruling Party.

It might get BushCo to back off until after November (win or lose).
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AngryAmish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Withholding oil would prove the man a tyrant
What right does he have to impoverish his people by cutting off a major source of his country's foreign exchange? None of course.

Could V cut off oil? Sure. Would it be moral? Of course not.

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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. There are lots of places to sell oil. China will buy the oil if we don't.
Edited on Sun Apr-18-04 09:19 PM by w4rma
Plus he's been redistributing the profits from the state-run oil company to the citizens of his country. That is definitely *not* a tyrant's actions. Chavez does exactly the opposite of what Saddam did.

Personally, I hope Bush backs down and Chavez keeps selling oil to America.
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AngryAmish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. But it would not hurt the US if we do not buy the oil.
I am getting a headache.
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. We get about 15% of our oil from Venezuela
About the same percentage we get from Saudi Arabia. So you are incorrect when you say it would not hurt the USA.

Don

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AngryAmish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. Last try -They have to sell it somewhere
Yes they could choose not to sell it period. But that would screw his own country more than hurt us. Remember Saudi has excess capacity. They essentially can make the price.

But V would have to sell it - at below market prices - to non-US consumers. Those consumers would then fail to buy oil on the international market. And who would buy the oil they fail to buy? The US.

Would it cause some small problem and increase in price to the US? Of course. Is it a huge problem? No it is not. Nose, spite, face.

Oil is a commodity.
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. (venezuela) Top-level Chinese delegations negotiate crude oil contracts
Edited on Sun Apr-18-04 09:54 PM by w4rma
Top-level Chinese delegations negotiate crude oil contracts if USA Bush 2 war machine locks on to Venezuela electoral dispute

President Hugo Chavez Frias is warning that any attempt to overthrow his government will raise international oil prices to more than US$50 a barrel In a published interview, the News York Times quotes Chavez Frias as saying he would not tolerate any US-led attempt to force his resignation ... he said that the US government led by George W. Bush does not respect the Venezuelan government, and noted Bush's continuous interference in Venezuela's internal affairs adding that it could jeopardize a key providers of oil to the United States ... "I can not believe a government is willing to put its oil supplies at stake!"

Venezuela provides about 1.5 million barrels a day to the United States ... nearly 15% of US oil imports ... but Chavez Frias has on several occasions threatened that if Venezuela is invaded or blocked by the United States it would lead to cuts in Venezuelan oil exports to the United States. Chavez has accused the United States of backing a coup d'etat in April 2002 which saw a USA-puppet dictator installed for just two days before being kicked out by the popular will of the people in massive anti-dictatorship demonstrations.

Meanwhile, VHeadline.com can reveal that top-level delegations from the Peoples' Republic of China have visited Venezuela recently to negotiate supply contracts which could relieve Venezuela of its customer-relationship dependency on North American markets.

It is known that while there is a lot of pressure on the Chavez Frias administration to simply walk away from North American crude oil markets in view of the rapidly devalued US$, Chavez Frias is personally waiting for an electoral win by US presidential candidate John Kerry to remove George W. Bush from office before signing irrevocable long-term supply contracts with the Chinese.
http://www.vheadline.com/readnews.asp?id=16433
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #14
29. You really aren't reading the replies you've recieved, are you?
There are plenty of markets for their oil. Yes, it would raise oil prices here. If that would help rid the world of Bush*, then it's a very moral descison indeed.
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amandabeech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #14
31. Whether the Saudis actually have much excess capacity
and whether they can ramp it up for any length of time is a hot subject of debate in oil circles these days. Matthew Simmons, noted energy investment banker, has put together a study, peer reviewed, indicating that the Saudis can't do what they are promising. See, for example, http://www.iags.org/n0331043.htm

Do a little googling. These questions have been around for a while. There is a lot of concern about whether the reserve numbers in the Middle Eastern producing region are scientific or political. Check the ASPO web site at http://www.peakoil.net

FYI
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Mikimouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #14
32. Why would they have to sell below market price?
The demand for oil is much higher than the supply. Japan would jump at the chance to buy some cheap oil (and for them, cheap is the market price). Venezuela is a member of OPEC and the other members would probably support their moves.
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Less supply means oil prices in America would rise. (nt)
Edited on Sun Apr-18-04 09:30 PM by w4rma
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alittlelark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. uh, yeah....
If I am not mistaken we get almost 1/4 of our oil from Ven.. Should we start sniffin' around the middle east for that amount.

Chavez is smart, and wants our operatives OUT of his country.
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Vladimir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-19-04 02:48 AM
Response to Reply #5
40. No it wouldn't
Edited on Mon Apr-19-04 02:49 AM by Vladimir
it would prove him sane. You don't sell oil to a country that is sponsoring coups against you. 2+2, surprisingly enough, does in fact equal 4.

V
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. there`s no where else to get the oil
Edited on Sun Apr-18-04 09:14 PM by rchsod
there`s going to be very little oil out of the middle east in the future. china will pay top dollar-our "walmart dollars"-for saudi crude. the cost of iraqi oil will have to be double the going price to make it profitable to rebuild the fields.50-60 dollars a barrel would probably be a price point for profit

cia overthrow of the venuzlian government will solve the problem
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AngryAmish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Again, oil is a commodity
There is no such thing as "Iraqi " oil or "Saudi" oil or Venezuelan" oil. Oil is oil.

Saudi has excess capacity. They can always crank open the valve when they want to. Saudis alone make (or break) the OPEC prices.

Venezuela has to sell its oil somewhere. So they sell it to Japan or Rwanda or Mars. And the US will buy oil elsewhere. Or Chavez will order it sold to non-US companies who will sell it back to us.

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alittlelark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #7
15. 'Oil' is not 'Oil'
the costs involved in pumping and refining are crucial....look it up.

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AngryAmish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. But when sold on the open market the pumping price is irrelevant
Easily pumped oil (Iraq) sells at the same price on the open market as expensively pumped oil (North Sea). It is expensive to drill in the US. So it is not done. But an expensively pumped barrel in the US sell for the same (transportation notwithstanding) as a barrel from Sri Lanka.

As I said, refining price is non-trivial, but there are many places other than V to get the same grade oil.
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alittlelark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #18
28. The processing costs are quite differennt
look it up.
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bobbyboucher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #2
24. Fungible? You mean like the troops?
If he did refuse to sell to the US, I dare think it would have an effect on the commodity known as crude oil.
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CabalBuster Donating Member (282 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 09:33 PM
Response to Original message
11. Chavez has cojones, more power to him n/t
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cosmicdot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. i think that's the real point here ... I agree ...
this is just not a local poker game ... the stakes are enormous ... they've probably never been higher ... and Venezuela just happens to have a major chip to play the game; and, to counter stuff the BFEE are doing to 'control' things domestically, and internationally ...
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 09:46 PM
Response to Original message
16. Oil exports from Venezuela and imports to U.S.
I don't know if there really was a big drop-off from 2000 to 2002 - these are two different sources, but it gives a feel for how important exports to the U.S. are for Venezuela and how important imports from there are to the U.S.

This trade is big for both countries. I think if Chavez actually did this - well, Bush has gone to war on flimsier pretexts. He would do it under the banner of free trade and helping Venezuela's poor. The propaganda push would be huge beforehand. However, U.S. forces are pretty strained already.

million barrels per day

1996 1997 1998 1999 2000

Venezuelan Oil
Exports to the
United States 1.68 1.77 1.72 1.49 1.55

Total Venezuelan
Oil Production * 3.11 3.44 3.33 3.01 3.14
http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/m0EPF/18_102/9729703...

Imports of Crude Oil into the United States
by Country of Origin, 2002 (thousand barrels per day)

1 Saudi Arabia 1,519
2 Mexico 1,500
3 Canada 1,445
4 Venezuela 1,201
5 Nigeria 589

Total 9140
http://www.eia.doe.gov/neic/rankings/crudebycountry.htm
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MasonJar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 09:58 PM
Response to Original message
19. Why would any country do business with another country which
is acting in a subversive manner toward its own elected officials?
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AngryAmish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. My head hurts.
Bad.
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Sorry.
:(
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AZCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #20
30. Heh. I feel your pain, AngryAmish
It is a difficult concept to get across sometimes.
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mulethree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 10:06 PM
Response to Original message
22. offset the Saudi oil-price election fix?
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 10:08 PM
Response to Original message
23. A lot has been happening in Lat. America while we were all looking at Iraq
(snip)
Colombian paramilitaries penetrate Venezuela to market for political assassination contracts

Colombia political leader Gustavo Petro has told delegates at the 2nd International Solidarity with Venezuela Meeting in Caracas that Colombian right-wing sectors are promoting the infiltration of paramilitary groups into Venezuela to embark on a campaign of selective political assassinations.

The Polo Democratic Independent leader claims that Colombian paramilitaries are entering Venezuelan not just to finance their activities but to sell themselves to Venezuelan groups and accept contracts to kill government grassroots leaders.

Former M19 Movement guerrilla, Petro warns that other sectors in his country are supporting the government's purchase of fighter plans and tanks from Spain but they will not be used to combat Colombia's guerrilla forces but are intended for a future armed confrontation with Venezuela ... "once the purchase has been complete, they will be placed facing Zulia and Apure States."

(snip/...)

http://www.vheadline.com/readnews.asp?id=17548
(Registration required)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Venezuela Invasion?

by Philip Stinard
April 18, 2004

On April 13, the Colombian senate approved a resolution proposed by Senator Enrique Gomez Hurtado that condemns the "dictatorial regime" of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez Frias and calls for the Organization of American States to apply the Interamerican Democratic Charter to Venezuela.

According to Article 21 of the Charter "In the event of an unconstitutional alteration of the constitutional regime that seriously impairs the democratic order in a member state, any member state or the Secretary General may request the immediate convocation of the Permanent Council to undertake a collective assessment of the situation and to take such decisions as it deems appropriate."
(snip)

Some Colombian social and political leaders point to the recent presence in Colombia of US Congressman Lincoln Diaz Balart ... cheerleader for the right-wing Cuban exile community in Florida ... as possibly having an influence in the drafting of this document.
Venezuelan National Assembly (AN) deputy Tarek William Saab characterized the Colombian resolution as a "vile pamphlet" which, besides being poorly written, appears as though it could have originally been written in English by the US State Department.
(snip)

Perhaps it is to this end that the Colombian government has purchased forty AMX-30 tanks from Spain with US assistance. And, knowing how US covert operations have been conducted in the past, it is quite possible that the US has great interest in testing and observing how much support the Chavez government has by, for instance, sending its surrogates to attack the hospital in Monagas State and watching the community response. This could also extend to observing the Venezuelan diplomatic response to the (intentional?) provocation produced by the Colombian senate resolution.
(snip)

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=4...
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. Whew! thanks for the sanity and the link, LOL!!
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. So the opposition is giving up on a "democratic' solution to their problem
with Chavez.

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Vladimir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-19-04 02:46 AM
Response to Reply #26
38. It was never interested in one
in the first place, but then we knew that.

V
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MrPrax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 11:18 PM
Response to Original message
27. USA-backed Colombian invasion of Venezuela imminent?
: On April 13, the Colombian senate approved a resolution proposed by Senator Enrique Gomez Hurtado that condemns the dictatorial regime of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez Frias and calls for the Organization of American States to apply the Interamerican Democratic Charter to Venezuela.

According to Article 21 of the Charter In the event of an unconstitutional alteration of the constitutional regime that seriously impairs the democratic order in a member state, any member state or the Secretary General may request the immediate convocation of the Permanent Council to undertake a collective assessment of the situation and to take such decisions as it deems appropriate.
(snip)
The most notable Venezuelan response to the Colombian resolution came from Jose Vicente Rangel, Executive Vice President of Venezuela, who made the astute observation, Senator Gomez Hurtados proposal has as its bases the United States governments campaign against Venezuela and the geo-strategic development of Plan Colombia.

Rangels statement also makes note of the fact that the original Spanish version of Proposition 249 is written in bad Spanish, with misspellings and grammatical errors that are uncharacteristic of the normally high standards of Colombian jurisprudence. Rangel proposes that the proposition could have been inspired and edited by the Venezuelan coup leaders in exile in Bogota, Pedro Carmona and <> Daniel Romero, spokesman of the de facto government the 12th of April <2002>.
(snip)
Some Colombian social and political leaders point to the recent presence in Colombia of US Congressman Lincoln Diaz Balart ... cheerleader for the right-wing Cuban exile community in Florida ... as possibly having an influence in the drafting of this document.

Venezuelan National Assembly (AN) deputy Tarek William Saab characterized the Colombian resolution as a vile pamphlet which, besides being poorly written, appears as though it could have originally been written in English by the US State Department.
(more)
http://www.vheadline.com/readnews.asp?id=17569
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genius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 11:58 PM
Response to Original message
34. Hurray for Chavez
He's a true hero.
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notbush Donating Member (616 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-19-04 01:27 AM
Response to Original message
35. He's not a "good guy"
Me thinks he's not long for this world......
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Vladimir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-19-04 02:47 AM
Response to Reply #35
39. Why is he not a
good guy? Because the US media told you so?

V
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Egalitarian Donating Member (379 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-19-04 02:38 AM
Response to Original message
36. Good on ya' Chavez!
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David__77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-19-04 02:40 AM
Response to Original message
37. Oil embargo would be interesting.
Perhaps the Arab world will not tolerate Bush's transgressions. I think that Chavez will have to resolutely deal with the fascists against him in Venezuela. Not all the opposition is fascist, but the generals and the oligarchs must be put in their place once and for all. He shouldn't allow them to conspire and plot as he has.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-19-04 04:03 AM
Response to Original message
41. Chevron-Texaco's working with the Vene. government on new projects
raising the well-being of many more Venezuelan citizens.
ChevronTexacos Western Venezuela Development Program has partnered with local governments, community leaders and professionals to:

  • Create the first regional reconstructive surgery program for cleft lip, palate and other facial deformities; ChevronTexaco worked with the Boscan Rotary Club and local physicians to change the lives of 60 children last year.
  • Construct the first high school in the Boscan region serving 1,500 students a facility with science labs, sports fields, a library and administration buildings.
  • Refurbish 11 schools in four locations of the Zulia state that benefit nearly 6,000 students.
  • Construct computer rooms in three local schools that benefit 1,600 students during the day and are open to the community in the evenings.
  • Provide the first medical and dental clinic serving a community of 7,000 people, including an ambulance, several treatment areas, maternity ward, emergency room and a community meeting room.


ChevronTexaco was one of only three companies to be honored by The Trust at ceremonies in Washington, D.C. and has, additionally, been recognized for several other corporate responsibility initiatives.
http://www.vheadline.com/readnews.asp?id=17540
(Registration required)
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-19-04 07:12 AM
Response to Original message
42. Drugs found on Colombian flagship
Last Updated: Saturday, 17 April, 2004, 02:29 GMT 03:29 UK


Drugs found on Colombian flagship

The Gloria was to embark on a goodwill trip to the US and Europe
A large cache of cocaine and heroin has been found on the Colombian navy's flagship, the Gloria.
The discovery was made just as Peruvian President Alejandro Toledo was to tour the ship during an official visit.

The sailing ship, which is the pride of the national fleet, was also due to visit the US and Europe to try to promote Colombia's image abroad.

The incident is the latest in a series of scandals dogging the Colombian security forces.

President Alvaro Uribe called the incident a stain on the nation's honour and ordered the entire 75 crew members suspended.
(snip/...)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3634061.stm

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Remember Colombia has become the third largest foreign aid recipient since Bush has been in the President's office.
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