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alp227 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-11 09:26 PM
Original message
Nervous Democrats say President Obama must be bolder on economy
Source: The Washington Post

With President Obamas reelection on the line, Democrats are increasingly anxious about what they see as his failure to advance a coherent and muscular strategy for addressing the nations economic ills.

Growing numbers of Obamas allies, beyond the liberal activists who have expressed disappointment in the past, contend that he has trimmed his sails too much since the partys electoral defeats last fall. This sentiment has sharpened in the wake of the negotiations over the debt ceiling, when the president accepted Republican demands for spending cuts without obtaining guarantees of tax revenue increases, which he said were necessary for a balanced approach.

Obamas standing has been further challenged by a string of recent events that are testing his presidential mettle: the first-ever credit downgrade of the U.S. government by the Standard & Poors rating agency on Friday night, a helicopter crash in Afghanistan that same night that killed 22 Navy SEALs and eight other service members, and a topsy-turvy stock market once again prompting fears of a double-dip recession.

The president has shown himself unwilling to just dig in on a position, said Dee Dee Myers, who was Bill Clintons White House press secretary. Hes for jobs. Ive heard him say that. Hes for being the grown-up in the room. But beyond that, Im not actually sure what his bottom line is.

Read more: http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/nervous-democrat...
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Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-11 09:40 PM
Response to Original message
1. Haters, obviously.
:sarcasm:
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dennis4868 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-11 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. and after he is bolder...
we get NOs in the House and fillubuster in the senate...then what? I am afraid we have to hope we take back the house in 2012...until then nothing can be done that will actually help the economy.
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DJ13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-11 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Then you call them out, over & over so the people know you are fighting for them
Obama seems uncaring to many people because he's unwilling to take stands if the politicos in DC say its too hard to win.
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dennis4868 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-11 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. UNCARING?
Edited on Wed Aug-10-11 09:52 PM by dennis4868
Remember his speech responding to Ryan budget/kill medicare plan...he call them out right to their faces on national TV while they were in the room...so many posts on DU that are fyull of shit and non factual....it's getting old! And during the debt ceiling debate he was calling out billionaires and people who would rather have college kids help pay off the deficit rather than millionaires....
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eilen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 09:13 AM
Response to Reply #7
50. Speeches are not actions. Talk is cheap. nt
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SusanaMontana41 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #50
92. Thank you. n/t
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #7
59. As President Elect, he promised to cut Medicare and OASDI, and, as President, he
submitted a budget cutting fuel subsidies to the poor, even though home heating fuel oil prices have gone up.

OASDI recipients have had no increase in the checks in 2011 or 2010, meaning they are getting checks based on 2008 prices, while prices have risen in general and food prices have, in the case of some basics, doubled or tripled. No one tried to remedy that.

How the hell are they supposed to take further cuts and do without a fuel subsidy to boot?
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lbrtbell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 01:06 AM
Response to Reply #4
36. That's not why he's unwilling to take a stand
It's because he's a neo-liberal corporatist, just doing what his donors want him to. He's doing a fine job...for them. :(
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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-14-11 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #36
113. Yup, you nailed it!
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jimlup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-11 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Getting "No's" may help the public understand what's going on. . .
At the moment they are lost and don't know who to blame. By coming out with a strong economic/jobs policy he could make it crystal clear to them.

What ever happened to 3D chess? Has it become 1D tic-tac-toe?
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dennis4868 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-11 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. the public already knows what's going....
there was a RECORD number of fillubusters last year for EVERYTHING!
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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 12:32 AM
Response to Reply #8
35. But the majority of the public DOESN'T know about the
filibusters, about the obstruction, about them continually moving the goal posts, which is why his ratings aren't stronger.

Most of the people I know don't pay attention like we do. At best they get a :30 clip on the local news at night, maybe a :15 mention on the car radio on their way to and from work, but other than that...

My sister-in-law is one of the few people I know who still subscribes to and reads the newspaper. When she came home from work yesterday and I was watching Ed in Wisconsin she said "there's an election TODAY?". When I said Yes! Wisconsin! And it's an historic recall election! she left the room, totally uninterested. Later, when she was reading the paper, she asked who won, because it was mentioned in the Seattle Times. I explained we got two, didn't get four, and that's all she was curious about. She, and most, don't understand nor have the desire to, what a significant occurrence that was, the daily goings on in DC, the funding of the Tea Party -- none of it. And again, I daresay, she's representative of a healthy chunk of Americans.

We've got to message better, to master the art of the sound bite, and say it every time we open our mouths, regardless of the question. Like "job killing Obama Care" and "we don't have a revenue problem, we have a spending problem". Even if we were to become the champs of the one-liners, not sure even that would penetrate.

I heard Thom Hartmann say that of all the registered voters, about half turn out to vote, and those who do pay attention only begin doing so about a couple of weeks before an election.

So whenever we say "NOW people will get it!", I think we're kidding ourselves. It's only us and the Freeps and Baggers who are paying attention.

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coalition_unwilling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 01:54 AM
Response to Reply #35
38. Here's a one-liner that would help Obama and the congressional Dems, were they
Edited on Thu Aug-11-11 01:54 AM by coalition_unwilling
to act against their own class' interests:

TAX THE RICH

Variants include: 'SOAK THE RICH' and, for those capable of handling a sentence with a dependent and indendpent clause: "THE RICH BENEFIT FROM CAPITALISM, SO THEY SHOULD HAVE TO PAY FOR IT"
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #38
62. Obama used that line in 2008, then went another direction. Would people believe him again anyway?
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Liberalynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 06:45 AM
Response to Reply #35
45. +1
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okieinpain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #35
52. recommend 100%. but I will give the complainers one bone
on president obama. he's going to have to get louder, the lame stream media will call him names for it but it will help him in the long run.
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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #52
56. Agree - wow, do I agree! nt
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #52
63. Lame stream media will call him names, no matter what. They're calling him weak now.
Edited on Thu Aug-11-11 02:50 PM by No Elephants
In U.S. politics, never, never worry about what the other side will say, esp. if the other side is the Rethugs. They will find something bad to say, no matter what.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #35
60. And that does not account for people who never even bothered to register.
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disillusioned73 Donating Member (963 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #35
64. Your post is SOOOOO spot on, I feel the same exact way..
everyone around me is so unaware. It feels overwhelming to try to explain it all, I find myself just going to the tried and true campaign finance reform pitch. Because the common person understands that politicians can be bought.. it's very frustrating to be so aware though, I never truly appreciated the term "ignorance is bliss" until I became politically awake.
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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-11 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #2
14. What Senate filibusters? The phantom Republican "procedural filibusters" that Democrats permit?

They could be stopped by the Democratic Senate leadership in a heartbeat. This has been pointed out many times on Democratic Underground.
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 05:29 AM
Response to Reply #2
42. I am so fucking tired..
... of hearing about the filibuster. Until he MAKES THEM DO IT, I just fucking don't want to hear it.

All one has to do to stop Obama is bark a little, even when there is clearly no bite there at all.
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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #42
57. He couldn't
negotiate himself out of a paper bag. He gives in ALL THE TIME. I'd like to play poker w/ him.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #57
65. It's not giving in when you're getting what you want.
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killbotfactory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-11 01:22 AM
Response to Reply #42
105. Do you know how modern filibusters work?
Republicans don't actually have to talk nonsense forever to stop a bill.
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-11 05:30 AM
Response to Reply #105
107. Fine..
.... LET THEM STOP IT AND MAKE THEM GO ON RECORD AS HAVING DONE SO. I stand by my complaint, it is JUST AN EXCUSE.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #2
58. You mean, take back the same seats we had January 2009 through January 2011?
Edited on Thu Aug-11-11 02:24 PM by No Elephants
And then what?

According to things I've read at DU, we would need in the Senate Sanders plus 59 Democrats, none of whom are center right or Blue Dog or conservadem before Obama can get anything good passed, besides maybe approval of one of his Republican nomineees.

That is never going to happen.

So, what's plan B?
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emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-11 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #1
15. "They never loved him."
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #15
72. "And refused to be won over?"
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jaxx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-11 09:45 PM
Response to Original message
3. Peter Wallsten who earns his money dissing the President.
Nothing he writes is on the up and up, always has an angle. No thanks.
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russspeakeasy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-11 09:48 PM
Response to Original message
6. Brilliant...absolutely fucking brilliant...
Where in hell have these people been? Their insight is comparable to picking the winning horse after the race. :wtf: :argh:
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mochajava666 Donating Member (771 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-11 10:02 PM
Response to Original message
9. Bold? Are you kidding? Not a bold principled bone in his body.
Unfortunately, he is just a freshman senator that never grew into the job. The problem is that the US and the world needed leadership. I guess it wasn't prudent at this juncture...
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certainot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-11 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. not bold for a black man to enter the white billionaires house? you sound like limbaugh
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mochajava666 Donating Member (771 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-11 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Ouch. Actually, I was so proud that a black man was elected.
Maybe too proud. In retrospect, I should have supported Hillary, but I really thought that Obama would be less corporate.
I'm still very proud that the US was able to elect a black man in my lifetime, which 20 years ago, I would have thought impossible. Thanks, W. We couldn't have done that without you.

If Obama would have tried to govern as he promised as a candidate, I would still be very proud. Now I just see him as a lost opportunity for change.
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certainot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-11 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. did you ignore the opposition or underestimate it?
it is impossible to evaluate obama's performance without factoring in RW talk radio, which the left collectively does, and the corruption of the republicans, which many new obama voters have never studied. without factoring in talk radio it is silly, for instance, for the left to ask why the white house can't message any better, or why obama doesn't use the bully pulpit more effectively.
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primavera Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 12:30 AM
Response to Reply #16
34. Some might argue that having opposition...
... as one will always have in public office, necessitates opposing it rather than trying to make nice with it in the futile hope that everyone will like you.
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Liberalynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 06:52 AM
Response to Reply #34
46. Opposition even has been known
to strengthen some people and give them the most historic opportunities to move towards greatness!
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 05:34 AM
Response to Reply #16
43. That dog won't hunt..
Edited on Thu Aug-11-11 05:35 AM by sendero
... we've watched Obama concede before the fight has even begun over and over and over and over and over.

Excuses never won or kept the presidency and Obama will need a miracle to keep his.

The bully pulpit is not just about talk, it is about twisting arms and knocking heads and pulling your own party in line. Obama has zero skills along those lines or he chooses not to do it, same result.

And finally, the time for bold action on the economy is long past. A year isn't enough time to to fix this thing at all. Obama should have taken bold action the day he took office or certainly within the first year. Now, he's going into a re-election where the ONLY thing that can possibly save him is the gross incompetence of the Repugs, and I would't bet on them losing because Americans like to punish those in power when they are worse off than they were - and 90% of Americans will be.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #43
66. Believe it, or not, the bully pulpit also requires builing relationships with people
Edited on Thu Aug-11-11 03:03 PM by No Elephants
Johnson used to spend time checking in with both Republicans and Democrats, asking how that wife's surgery went and how little Donna was doing now that she had braces.

A photo op golf game with Boehner doesn't pay the rent.

Johnson also knew which Republican wanted a post office named after him and which one wanted a museum in his district. And, when push came to shove, Johnson started horse trading on a one by one basis until he got the votes he needed.

And the other part of it is getting people so fired up, they demand things from their representatives.

But, IMO, the real issue is that Obama has gotten pretty much what he wanted all along. We just expect him to want different things.
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #66
81. That may be true...
... but I would remind you that Obama usually SAYS the exact right thing, so he is CLAIMING he wants what we want he just isn't achieving it by incompetence or by design.

I don't really care which it is because the results are all that matters.
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certainot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #66
100. politics is different now
you think obama wanted to play golf with boehner to talk about putting?

johnson lived in a different world- never have republicans been so locked in- they cannot be bipartisan or they they become traitors- limbaugh and hannity name them and can destroy them. will they merely chide them and only get a few hundred crazed dittohead/teabaggers calling in, or will they chew on them for a bit and get thousands of screamers?

limbaugh hated mccain and wouldn't support him. but the convention was right around the corner and mccain hadn't picked a VP..mccain wanted lieberman and pawlenty. but that wouldn't get limbaugh on board and backing down from his position on mccain. without limbaugh the convention would be a disaster. so minutes before limbaugh's show started on the fri before the GOP convention mccain picked the bride of limbaugh, queen of the tea party/dittoheads, and limbaugh got on board and the convention was a success. we still have palin.
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FiveGoodMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #16
55. Is that why he maintained and escalated Bush's wars of choice?
RW talk radio?

Is that why he's prosecuted more whistle-blowers than Bush?

Is that why he's ordered extra-judicial killings?

Because of the radio?
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #55
67. That post made me stop breathing for a second.
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certainot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #55
86. yeah, spend a lot of capital pissing off all the republican generals, forget the economy
more and more i am beginning to wonder how many modern progressives have no clue the opposition is now run by think tanks who don't care about democracy, have unlimited brain power and money, and the biggest bullhorn in the country, and have no clue what the republicans got away with the last 20 years. they seem to be entertainign some bygone rockwellian fantasy of president as king.

obama is only as strong as his base and it seems his base abandoned him after their first disappointment or two.

unless people are in the streets the right has nothing to fear from this left.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #13
61. Hillary would have been no better, perhaps worse.
The embarrassment of riches that was supposedly the Democratic primary field was not so much riches.
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mochajava666 Donating Member (771 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #61
78. Tell me about it. I was a John Edwards supporter. Silly me.
That would have been a disaster due to scandal.

I'm not so sure Hillary would have been worse. At the time, I was moving Heaven and Earth to get Obama elected over Hillary in the Wisconsin primary, which crushed her campaign. After reading "Audacity of Hope", I kind of got the audacity to hope that he wasn't lying to me. I am an idiot for believing him. Should have listened to Rev. Wright. He knew what kind of person Obama was, but I refused to listen.

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grahamhgreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-11 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #12
19. Not as a servant.
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certainot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-11 11:43 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. well, for instance, the koch's political 2x4 beats away 24/7 and the left is nowhere to be seen
shitty defense
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grahamhgreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #20
25. We can not defend policies we are ethically opposed to such as mandatory insurance from corrupt
Companies who have let people die rather than pay out legitimate claims.

I have defended his socializing student loans, and auto-bailout, but the big ticket items - war, rendition, failure to prosecute and even condoning torture, tax cut for the rich at the expense of the poor - i can not.

He may wind up a pariah, as soon as he leaves Office he may be laughed at by the right, and shunned by the left. He will hOwever, be able to create dynastic family wealth.
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certainot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 12:15 AM
Response to Reply #25
30. in all of those issues his position is weakened by the left ignoring RW radio
there seems to be a confusion about what he might want to do and what he can do, and i think a lot of new voters way overestimated what he can do
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #30
69. Bull. He gave up the public option before the reform bill ever reached Congress.
Edited on Thu Aug-11-11 03:21 PM by No Elephants
He gave up while he was negotiating with health insurers in the WH and trying to hide the white house visitors' log from the ACLU.

He never fought Congress for the public option, not even a little. To the contrary, he fought the House, refused to meet with the Caucus until after the Senate abomination passed.

Far from even trying to use his bully pulpit to have us raining calls on Congress, he chided us, telling us it was only a sliver, not important in the big picture.

That was not the fault of left wing radio, or of Congress.

Radio doesn't make him use extraordinary rendition, either. Neither does Congress.

And he announced there would be no prosecution of bushco before right wing radio even had a chance to be all over him about that.

P.S. If you were right, and I don't think that for a second, how lame a President would he be, to let right wing radio run the country and his own actions?

These excuses make him seem lamer than any criticism ever could.
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certainot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #69
83. he was hiding the WH visitors log because the GOP could have a field day with it
the same way they do with everything obama does- because they have 1000 coordinated radio stations that can turn a molehill into a mountain in a day.

maybe they already knew the senate was going to block it. like everything else. to assume it wasn't would be dumb. but the left has allowed those 1000 think tank radio stations to take public option and single payer off the table a long time ago.

he barely managed to keep us out of an economic meltdown by many accounts, with a justice dept and military full of bush fundy moles and you really think he'd have a chance going after the bush crime family? were you in the streets when they stole 2 elections? were you protesting your local limbaugh radio station when they were selling the iraq war? and CLUB GITMO t-shirts?

learn some non-mainstream history of politics the last 20 years and see if you still think obama could walk into the white billionaires house and kick ass.

i'm just surprised biden's not president by now.

RW radio is the single biggest reason why we got bush, are in iraq, deregulated the banks, got clarence thomas and several other corporate freak supremes, don't have single payer or elction reform, or media or drug reform, are in this mess now, ACORN and van jones are out, and on and on. this shit doesn't happen in a real democracy and fox TV didn't make the difference.


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grahamhgreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #83
93. I have to agree with no elephants.
We only needed one senator to stop the filibuster, we already had 59.

To think thay a president cant twist one arm is unrealistic, IMHO.

And the secret white house deals never should have taken place, and reeks of complicity to enact HCR that followed the far right heritage foundations guidelines
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certainot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #93
103. did you know hannity's radio show broadcast from the heritage foundation?
not that that's where his regular spot is but the recent substitutes for his show let slip they were broadcasting from the heritage foundation.

and how many times did he have to do that to get past a filibuster... just one more...

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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #25
68. +1
Edited on Thu Aug-11-11 03:11 PM by No Elephants
The more I read and hear, the more I pray for a real primary challenger, as unlikely as that is.

ETA: If none shows up, I'm writing in Sanders, even though he is not a Democrat. Heck, he's already changed from Democratic Socialist to Independent, so I'll change him again. And it won't matter anyway because he won't win the primary. But at least I will have registered my dissent.
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certainot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #68
82. good thinking. then we can get in another george bush and the country can then finally see how bad
the right is and we can get a real progressive in.

a lot of people who weren't paying attention to real politics in the 80s and 90s and 00s seem to think similarly.

and people who voted for the first time in 2008 and were disappointed obama couldn't march in and kick ass. and didn't vote in 2010 and now want to double down.

good luck-
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grahamhgreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #82
94. Really, we are just trying to get some firm promises on what he will do. For some
And actions speak louder than words.

Who will he appoint?
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certainot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #94
95. but that's part of the problem that relates directly to unchallenged RW radio
who can get passed? elizabeth warren? how many times do they have to go through the same shit because the the GOP will obstruct a progressive by using their own set of 'facts'? 'facts' they know have been pounded into the earholes of 20 mil a day.

politicians always say they have to listen to their constituents. republicans and some dems will take money and sell out but they have to look like they're serving their constituents, and that's one place where talk radio is so effective - creating excuses and constituencies.

when it's time to appoint someone to supreme court or JD or environmental or whatever, how acceptable are they? van jones was swiftboated for weeks on radio and the left had no clue until it got serious. then it's too late and it becomes a matter of time and energy spent defending jones merely because the right is able to make shit up and turn molehills into mountains complete with made-to-order screaming haters. just like it swiftboated gore, and kerry, and ACORN, and millions of legal and illegal immigrants ('many of whom vote democrat'). only talk radio can do that.
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grahamhgreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-11 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #95
109. I have to agree RW hate radio is dangerous - it spurreed the genocide of Rawanda...
I think the only thing that can counter it is the bully pulpit.
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certainot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-11 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #109
110. but it is the loudest bully pulpit- to stop it left has to protest the stations, shame the local
sponsors, and get universities to stop broadcasting sports on those stations, recognize limbaugh as head of the GOP, etc.
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grahamhgreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-11 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #110
111. All Obama has to do is ask for a million people to march on DC for Medicare for All.
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certainot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #25
85. so when reagan/bush was training death squads in central america dems didn't want to stop it?
why couldn't they? why couldn't dem politicians stop the iraq invasion? why couldn't they pass media reform or election reform. they tried.

obama is only as strong as his base, and a lot of it is fairweather, pissant, and ignorant of the level of corruption they have reached.

did you protest the iraq invasion, and torture & rendition at the local RW station that was selling that shit? your local limbaugh station sells CLUB GITMO t-shirts for him yet i have never heard of any torture-hating liberal organization protesting any of the limbaugh stations while they excused it and rationalized it.

did you know paid callers helped the national and local talkers sell the iraq war lies?

the idea that he could do all that stuff is absurd. liberals have been trying for decades similar shit, and and some suddenly engaged new voters who hadn't been paying attention all of a sudden want him to march in and kick ass.

i can see principled people who have lived principled lives and have been politically active for liberal causes being pissed at obama but i also see a hell of a lot of naive whiners who haven't yet figured out obama is about the best chance they're going to get without a total revolution with a lot of violence.
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tgal Donating Member (96 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #12
32. "you sound like Limbaugh"
bullshit, the poster said nothing like that.

Disgusting post.



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certainot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 07:40 AM
Response to Reply #32
47. not a bold principled bone in his body? sounds like limbaugh to me- the kind of
thing that he says all the time that his teagbagger dittoheads would repeat without thinking.

bold enough to go against the right wing and most corrupt election and swiftboating machine in history trying to tank the economy as he comes in, and a guy who gave up a shitload of money in law to be a community organizer? sounds like something limbaugh would denigrate, and even a lot of 'progressives' with no clue of what the right's been up to the last 20 years would say.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #47
70. Actually, he didn't give up a boatload of money in law to be a community organizer.
You have the chronology of his resume wrong.

Right after college, he went to work on Wall Street briefly. He was not making a boatload of money there. He then became a community organizer. Then he went to law school. He practiced law and taught law and ran for the state senate.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #47
71. Dupe
Edited on Thu Aug-11-11 03:29 PM by No Elephants
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #12
33. "a black man to enter the white billionaires house"-that talking point memo tidbit from
you Third Wayers is getting as stale as "ponies" and "purity police". :eyes:
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certainot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 07:42 AM
Response to Reply #33
48. cool
i thought i was the only one said that
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Maven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #12
54. *** IGNORE THE RACE BAITER ***
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certainot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #54
84. what are you talking about?
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certainot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #54
87. what the fuck are you talking about?
you thinkk race doesn't have anything to do with the opposition he's getting?
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certainot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #54
88. what the fuck are you talking about?
you think race has nothing to do with the opposition he's getting?
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swilton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-11 10:16 PM
Response to Original message
10. Rearranging the deck chairs.
What's their plan B?
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certainot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-11 10:18 PM
Response to Original message
11. the problem is the collective 'left' never got his back from day one and the right does all messagin
we do things individually to 'get his back' but collectively there is NO organized opposition to counter the right's best weapon- 1000 think tank- coordinated radio stations that can manage the rest of the media so effectively they can always have it both ways, create their own reality, and message over anything the administration tries to do.
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grahamhgreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-11 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #11
18. Yes, the left got his back, but he kicked the single-payer advocates out of the room and made back
Edited on Wed Aug-10-11 11:28 PM by grahamhgreen
Room deals with big pharma, and insurance to guarantee an angry public.

In fact, we got him elected.
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certainot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-11 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. for 20 years 1000 radio stations have been making single payer virtually impossible
with lies and exaggerations, creating an easily activated made to order anti public option constituency that was called out to scream in town halls and the fucking idiot left played along with the MSM that it was some popular movement instead of a bunch of dittoheads rebranded teabaggers created with coordinated unchallenged radio repetition.
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grahamhgreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 12:05 AM
Response to Reply #22
26. Sorry, but the polls clearly showed a majority Of Americans want Medicare for All.
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certainot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 12:20 AM
Response to Reply #26
31. but those fucking senators let the screaming loud minority enable their filibusters
on behalf of big pharma and insurance and the screaming loud minority would have been laughed away with their idiotic talking points if the left had challenged them at the source.
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kimsarah Donating Member (290 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 02:06 AM
Response to Reply #31
40. Maybe they should
try looking in a mirror.
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certainot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 07:49 AM
Response to Reply #40
49. but because the left ignores the radio they have allowed the alternate reality to be
established and the think tanks to create their made-to-order constituencies.

if the left wasn't so stupid and lazy about the radio, the right's most important weapon, the MSM wouldn't have been able to elevate that artificial minority to 'popular movement' status and the 'Tea Party' would have been exposed as the tool of billionaires..
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #31
75. Also bull. The bull about the radio got shot down by the post about polls and
Edited on Thu Aug-11-11 03:45 PM by No Elephants
so you immediately switch to bull about Senators?

How about you link us to something, anything, that shows Obama fought anyone for the public option for even one hour?


He gave it up between January and March of 2009, while he was meeting with health insurers, hospitals and big PHRMA. Drug reimportation too.
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certainot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #75
96. you really think he doesn't want a good health care system for his kids future and the country and
instead wants big pharma and insurance to win so he can finally cash in on a lobbying job?
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certainot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 11:09 PM
Response to Reply #75
97. what polls? the whole beauty of 1000 radio stations is that you don't have to pay attention to pol
polls unless they support your aims.

every week the limbaughs and hannity's inform 50 million people that such and such a poll says most americans don't want single payer communist health care. over and over.

and you really think he's thinking about cashing in on a big pharma lobbying job?
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #22
74. Untrue. The radio stations have not been talking against single payer for 20 years.
It must be great to post the same excuse over and over and never have to prove it.

And, even if that were true--which it isn't-Obama was against single payer.

When he ran for the state senate, he said he was for single payer, but never did anything in his state about that. When he ran for the Presidency, he said single payer would never work in the U.S., which was bullshit. And he said a strong public option was the only way to control costs. Now, that was not bullshit. It was dead on. However, he gave that up and said public option was a aliver--and that was bullshit.
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certainot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #74
89. i've heard it for 20 years, how the canadian system was commie, etc
with all the same stories, overt and over and over.

that is where the teabaggers learned their lines- they're the same old dittoheads- they might have gotten their bus passes from the kochs but they already had their lines memorized.

and because the left had no clue they allowed the media to turn this corporate made-to-order constituency into a 'popular movement'.

all the left had to do was tie it to limbaugh and it would have dead.

public option was killed by a GOP and blue dogs who had limbaugh and hannity at their back and could point to that 'concerned' constituency that would scream into phones on cue.

that was another of many trophies on limbaughs wall that would largely be empty except the left gets a headache when they listen to RW talk radio -(and music is so much funner).
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certainot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #74
104. PS hillary care was a major talk radio's trophy, right up there with anita hill & impeachment
for bill clinton
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eilen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #11
51. The Left supports progressive policies and the pols that push them
Even Labor walked away in disgust of this administration.
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certainot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #51
90. but there can be no national rational discussion of any major reform as long as the 'left' ignores
the talk radio monopoly. by the time it gets to the senate, and now congress, it has no hope.

weren't there hundreds passed by pelosi's congress that were 'filibustered' by the senate?

the left allows the right to create their own reality and enable massive amounts of hypocrisy merely because it allows 1000 radio stations to kick internet ass all over the political arena. it ends up reacting after the alternate reality has been pounded into the earholes of 50 mil a week.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #11
73. Also baloney. BTW, you do know the opposite of the left is the right?
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certainot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #73
102. yeah, here.... http://youtu.be/HnrfuTUlqVs
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grahamhgreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-11 11:24 PM
Response to Original message
17. Not nervous, angry Dems pushing the obvious solutions he refuses to enact.
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killbotfactory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-11 01:24 AM
Response to Reply #17
106. What solution has he vetoed? nt
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Flatulo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-11 11:47 PM
Response to Original message
21. I'm afraid that very little can be done on the jobs front...
The private sector just isn't hiring, not in the USA at least. There are plenty of jobs going to China, and they won't be coming back.

Just how do you induce the private sector to hire? Here in Massachusetts, the state government has given away hundreds of millions to companies to create jobs here, but they just take the money and move to China anyway, the fuckers.

I don't see this country imposing tariffs on shitty Chinese imports, and if the government tries to up the ante by, say, fining companies that move jobs overseas, they'll just move the whole operation off shore and reincorporate as a foreign entity.

The only way jobs are going to come back is if the Chinese stop manipulating their currency and let the remimbi rise to it's natural level. This would increase the cost of Chinese goods and induce American firms to start bringing the jobs back.
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harun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 12:00 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. He could push for an affordable public option to boost entrepreneurship and job creation.
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BumRushDaShow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 04:30 AM
Response to Reply #23
41. And Max Baucus will block it. n/t
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Flatulo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 05:53 AM
Response to Reply #23
44. I believe the problem is one of globalization, not lack of entrpreneurship. nt
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harun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 12:00 AM
Response to Reply #21
24. He could push for an affordable public option to boost entrepreneurship and job creation.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #21
76. FDR didn't worry about how many incentives he had to shove at the private sector to get them to hire
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Flatulo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #76
80. It's frustrating, isn't it? There is so much infrastructure to be (re)built here, but
you know that Obama isn't going to spend the money to do it.

Just off the top of my head, we need:

Thousands of bridges and roads repaired
Massive funding for alternative energy projects
Gradual mothballing of our aging nuke sites
Training and hiring of doctors and teachers

This whole place is falling apart and no one gives a fuck.
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mochajava666 Donating Member (771 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-12-11 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #80
108. You are absolutely right. Well said.
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hulka38 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 12:06 AM
Response to Original message
27. Could they have understated that any more?
At least they got the gist right.
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 12:13 AM
Response to Original message
28. How hard can it be to get out there and say "Jobs, jobs, jobs"?
I know a bunch of people who are up to the job if Obama isn't. The trouble is kindergarten kids are too young to run.
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AllyCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 12:13 AM
Response to Original message
29. No thanks.I've seen where "bolder" gets us on things with this POTUS:
More Republican.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #29
77. +1 That is always my first thought when I hear people urge him to do more.
I think he should engage in more recreational activities, walk BO more, maybe do a some volunteering. Anything but politics, really.
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SleeplessinSoCal Donating Member (710 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 01:45 AM
Response to Original message
37. Why is the number of Seals being reported at 22? 17 died. Bad enough as is, but not 22.
Edited on Thu Aug-11-11 01:50 AM by SleeplessinSoCal
And this may be the opportunity to fully engage in campaign mode. Until now, he was blamed for campaigning by Repubs when he said revenues were necessary.

BUSH TAX CUTS MUST END. AFGHANISTAN & IRAQ WARS MUST END. MINOR TWEAKS TO MEDICARE. Then eventually Social Security needs to raise some caps. Not necessary right now. And he's got to make that clear enough for Sean Hannity to understand.
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kimsarah Donating Member (290 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 02:04 AM
Response to Original message
39. These nervous Democrats
would be even more anxious if we could primary every one of those sad sacks.
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harun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #39
53. +1, we have a long list of those that have earned a Primarying.
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Gin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #53
79. I was watching a panel on CSPAN around 2 am...3 men who write
about presidents, and a female moderator....don't know names..

Obama was compared to LBJ and others....audience had interesting comments on O...one lady said she thought he was a nice guy who doesn't like to argue...one of men on the panel stated that people who "were" in the administration call him ruthless...once you have served your purpose...he's finished with you....I found that interesting.

Also...nobody is afraid of Obama...LBJ was feared...so was Pelosi...panel commented...nobody fears him and that's not a good thing..fear is beneficial.
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harun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #79
98. Unfortunately fear is the only language the GOP understands. Obama needs to start
speaking their language or he is done.
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indepat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 09:24 PM
Response to Original message
91. The president's plan for the economy is already sealed by the debt-limit-crisis
bipartisan deal already signed into law which will kill 1.8 million jobs by some estimates. His hands would seem to be tied insofar as doing anything meaningful otherwise. Looks like the not-so-grande orange must have gotten 98% of what he wanted, as surely did the president assuming he was an equally skillful negotiator who did not capitulate to seeming economic terror. :patriot:
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 11:22 PM
Response to Original message
99. "Bolder" ... ?? Obama has been practically comatose on economy ....
Meanwhile, the issue seems to be in the hands of the FED which makes those

decisions -- rather than our Congress having the bother of doing it!!!


:nuke:
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-11 11:27 PM
Response to Original message
101. Why doesn't he just get out the manual. The constitution, and in there, is a plan all laid out for
just this type of economic crisis... It talks about creating jobs...
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sarcasmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-13-11 07:59 PM
Response to Original message
112. Stop the endless wars.
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Safetykitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-14-11 04:20 PM
Response to Original message
114. Too late kids. Way too late.
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