London riots: Twitter users face arrest for inciting looters

[Bosonic]

Source: Telegraph

Twitter users could face arrest for inciting violence in the wake of two nights of unrest in London, a Scotland Yard chief warned today.

Deputy Assistant Commissioner Stephen Kavanagh confirmed officers were looking at the website as part of investigations into widespread looting and rioting.

Acting Commissioner Tim Godwin pledged a robust response to some of the ''pure criminality'' seen in recent days.

Amid speculation that police could have done more to contain the eruption of trouble, Mr Godwin said he was immensely proud to be a Scotland Yard officer.

Read more: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8689076/London-riots-Twitter-users-face-arrest-for-inciting-looters.html

[GillesDeleuze]

1. ah british free speech.

[enlightenment]

2. Free speech is not 'free'.

There are limits, here as well as in the UK.

Inciting violence; suggesting that people should join in the anticipated looting and destruction of property; arranging meet-ups in order to participate in the violence and looting; suggesting that people should die . . .

There are limits. What some of those people were saying on Twitter and Facebook was not some vague, generalized sentiment supporting the actions taking place - they were specific suggestions and directions about imminent action. The police are not going after every person who commented in a positive fashion about the rioting; they are looking at those people who use the social networks to incite and arrange violent action.

If somebody started tweeting about how cool it is to rape four-year-old kids and telling other people they should meet up to get in on that action - and four-year-old kids were being raped - would you consider it a violation of the tweeters' right to free speech if the police went after them based on what they were writing?

[GillesDeleuze]

3. Defenders of private property love to equate it with human suffering

The tweets were about protest action. If it offends you as much as the police, id say you have some interesting allies.

[BooScout]

6. No they weren't...

They were about meeting up and looting. Looting shops is NOT protesting. It offends the hell out of me what they did.

[dipsydoodle]

8. Convenient of you to ignore the fact

that when the Allied Carpets building was fired there just happened to be 26 people at home at the time in their flats above the store.



All of those home owners are now homeless.

[lebkuchen]

25. Fortunately those at home in the burning building are not dead

or there would be homicide charges filed as well as arson.

[dipsydoodle]

28. There are far far more people adversly affected

within the communities involved , now across London ,than the mindless halfwits doing this.

Its also good to hear that in some instances the police are bringing charges of aggravated burglary - max sentence for that is life.

:hi:

[lebkuchen]

30. I was looking forward to going to the Olympics

I am giving it second thought now, as I'm sure are a lot of other people. It's a shame because it's such a huge source of employment/income for the host city, and London/UK citizens could use the pounds.

When the World Cup was in Germany a few years ago, known hooligans from the UK had their passports taken away from them ahead of time. That's probably the first list the police will be referring to when they sort out these riots.

[dipsydoodle]

32. I very much doubt the football crowd are involved

If you've ever seen pictures of the "usual suspects" they're a different age range from these hooligans.

I had a friend 30 years ago who was ICF and outside of football he was good as gold. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inter_City_Firm

[BooScout]

33. No, not really.....

Two entirely different groups of thugs.

I've been to the Olympics...they are overrated.

[lebkuchen]

34. the events are very expensive

What events did you attend?

[dipsydoodle]

36. Track

with my mother when I was 5 years old - 1948 Olympics in Wembley were I was born and we lived anyway. Oddly enough my mother mentioned them the other day. She said she just queued for tickets - times have changed. My younger brother ordered £12000 of tickets and got 4 in the lottery for the first batch - he was gutted and I think will sell the odd ones he did get.

I ask if she remembers how much the tickets were then. :)

[lebkuchen]

40. It would be so easy for me to make these Olympics

and simply camp outside the city.

But...I'm one of those who pratices OPSEC. The riots don't help.

BTW, I was surprised that the Opening Event was so expensive. Over 1,000 pounds, as I recall, or did I dream that?

[dipsydoodle]

43. I can't relate to the ticket prices

and I have no particular interest in the Olympics. If you do come over then let me know and if there is anything I can do to help just ask - I'm about 14 miles NNW of central London.

[lebkuchen]

45. Thanks!

I'd probably be in the campsite just east of London. I was in Kent for a couple of weeks last month, camping and visiting every National Trust site along the way. I love Kent.

[dipsydoodle]

49. Yo' welcome

Your id amuses me. I spent 6 weeks in Austria when I was a teenager with the sole purpose of helping a teen my own age then with conversational english. His mother used to cook that and you could have no concept of how fast I could consume it. :)

[lebkuchen]

50. I was in Austria last month and may return in a few days for more R & R

Austria and Slovenia are so beautiful. However, Austria gives drivers plenty of warning that they need to buy a vignette to use the country's autobahns while Slovenia sign-posts its warning once, in little Slovenian letters.

Result: 300 euro penalty (but they MAY give you a 50% discount if they're in a good mood, and for us, they were)

I'm still pissed.

[BooScout]

38. Several...

Track and field, equestrian, tennis, baseball, and a gold medal men's soccer game. The soccer was great. The Track and field was a bit surreal and subdued since I saw that the day after the Atlanta Olympic Park bombing and we were all very paranoid to be there.

[lebkuchen]

42. Track and Field tickets are expensive in London

like swimming and gymnastics. But those events, especially track, are so exciting to watch.

Can professional soccer (fussball) players compete? I'd love to see some of the Spanish players in the flesh, as well as root for the up and coming US of A team, who keep improving their game.

[BooScout]

44. The tickets weren't cheap in Atlanta either....

But I saved up for a what I thought was a once in a lifetime opportunity. Now 15 years later with me now living on the other side of the Atlantic and opportunity to go again knocking......I find I really have no desire to go to anything this time around.

[lebkuchen]

47. Sounds like it's a "been there done that" kind of deal

I've been there but haven't "done that." The countryside is so much more appealing to me, and there's less chance of disaster striking, unless I get bit by a shirehorse.

[Bosonic]

9. Here's an example BBM

(BlackBerryMessage) from http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/08/london-riots-tottenham-duggan-blog#block-44">The Guardian which was used to coral people to Oxford Circus. You be the judge of the main intent.

Everyone from all sides of London meet up at the heart of London (central) OXFORD CIRCUS!!, Bare SHOPS are gonna get smashed up so come get some (free stuff!!!) fuck the feds we will send them back with OUR riot! >:O
Dead the ends and colour war for now so
if you see a brother... SALUT!
if you see a fed... SHOOT!
We need more MAN then feds so Everyone run wild, all of london and others are invited! Pure terror and havoc & Free stuff....just smash shop windows and cart out da stuff u want! Oxford Circus!!!!! 9pm, we don't need pussyhole feds to run the streets and put our brothers in jail so tool up,
its a free world so have fun running wild shopping;)
Oxford Circus 9pm if u see a fed stopping a brother JUMP IN!!! EVERYONE JUMP IN niggers will be lurking about, all blacked out we strike at 9:15pm-9:30pm, make sure ur there see you there. REMEMBA DA LOCATION!!! OXFORD CIRCUS!!!
MUST REBROADCAST TO ALL CONTACTS!!!

BTW now reports of a bit of bother in Lewisham

[dipsydoodle]

26. BBM have already agreed to assist the police

I picked that up on Bloomberg' ticker a short while ago.

[saras]

4. What a bizarrely inappropriate comparison! Destroying property is NOT raping four-year-olds.

Destroying property is often justified. Rape never is.

[enlightenment]

11. In this case, it is a perfectly justified comparison.

The fact that you are incapable of seeing it is your problem, not mine.

[GillesDeleuze]

15. Who were the 4 years old raped because of these tweets?

Have we really come to this? Are we this Ayn Randian? Property=life.

[LanternWaste]

17. I believe you're conflating

I believe you're conflating a valid comparison with actual events.

No-- I do not believe we're at the point in which property is morally equivalent to life, but I do believe we're at a point in which we realize that there are more (and better) answers to social problems than violence and anarchy. I hope that doesn't disappoint you too much... :shrug:

[GillesDeleuze]

21. when they are tossing bricks into a 4 year olds genitals

itll be an apt comparison.

[ZombieHorde]

14. Rape is horrible; looting is wonderful. nt

[dipsydoodle]

5. Was a dead cert the police would home in on that

using the 'phones of those arrested. I even noticed one last night advertising solicitors services for those arrested.

Accessory or conspiracy before the fact carries the same penalty as the principal act.

[adhd_what_huh]

7. do not f*ck with peoples ability to communicate...there is no coming back from that

[slackmaster]

10. The ability to communicate cannot be separated from accountability for one's actions

Communicate whatever you wish, as long as you are willing to accept the consequences.

[sfpcjock]

12. They pee in the streets there. What do you expect?

Actually, the stupid Tory government, even with some revenue enhancements, as I understand it, has managed to stall the British economy completely over the past 3 quarters. There's probably quite a lot of distress with that and the 6-pound tea/beer they buy. You're probably looking at the U.S. in 15 months, to some extent, because the Repigs have just managed to suck 1.8 million more jobs out of our economy.

[BooScout]

13. You have no idea what you're talking about.....

The economy over here in the UK is in a heck of a lot better shape than the States right now because the government quit spening willy nilly a year ago. The economy grew for the past two quarters the last time I checked.

[sfpcjock]

16. Really?

Then how come you don't know that your economy grew at 0% last quarter, 0% the quarter previous, and at 0.2% this quarter? Don't you have schools or newspapers there? Your economy is stalled now because of Tories. Stalled, because of the conservative government's ideas of drastically making cuts before the recession has ended. This has now been exported to my own country. For example, youth programs in Britain have been cut and now the kids are on the street. Is that smart? The poorest parts of your city, which you probably don't visit, are now in flames. This is the result, and this is the basis of the UK Uncut movement.

[muriel_volestrangler]

19. Technically, BooScout is right about the UK GDP figures, and you're wrong

BooScout said the economy grew in the last 2 quarters; it did - by 0.5% and then 0.2%: http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=192

So your claim of 0% then 0.2% is wrong. However, the UK economy contracted by 0.5% in the quarter before that, so your total for the 3 quarters is correct.

But since BooScout had been right about the economy growing over the last 2 quarters, your "Don't you have schools or newspapers there?" remark was rude and unnecessary. As is the "which you probably don't visit" remark. Stop trying to be 'leftier than thou'. And stop trying to blame the UK for the policies of the US Tea Party or Republicans - you have to take full blame for them. 'Exported to my own country' my arse.

[Stella_Artois]

20. Being an arrogant dick won't make people come around to your point of view.

It just makes people think you are an arrogant dick.

[BooScout]

27. I know you're spouting bs

The UK economy grew at .5 percent first quarter and .2 second quarter. I also know that I have a degree in Finance and have a rudimentary understanding of the economies of the US as well as the UK.....I know that I am an American with feet in both countries.... Was just home in the States a couple of months ago and the UK economy is in no way as bad as shape as the American economy is.

I also know that London is not my city. I live in the UK but not in London. I also know that the reason London is burning has not one thing to do with any cuts. These are simply criminals out to take advantage of the situation. I think most people in the UK grasp this thought but you can't seem to get it.

You, being on the other side of the Atlantic feel that you have the situation nailed down in your not so esteemed reasoning. Carry on deluding yourself.

[Boudica the Lyoness]

48. You don't know what your talking about.

And I'm not going to waste my time with you.

[T_i_B]

18. I don't doubt that some looters are using Twitter

BBM's are apparently also being used quite a lot by looters and I would expect that some are using Facebook as well.

However, one thing I have noticed with Twitter is that the riots have turned it from being a liberal safehaven into a Daily Mail-esque stream of calls for water cannons, corporal punishment, marshall law and deportations as people are very pissed off about the rioters and the ongoing situation. Any attempts to justify in anyway what's going on appear to have ceased, although some partisans are making a point of criticizing Boris Johnson & David Cameron for being on holiday when this kicked off.

[Stella_Artois]

22. Hmmm

I guess i can forgive them for being on holiday when it kicked off, since unless they had prior knowledge of this happening they could hardly have come back before it happened.

What the problem may be is that they didn't come back fast enough. Although to be honest i wouldn't expect them to come back after one nights disturbance, if they did people would just accuse them of not having faith in the police. Certainly would expect them to be back now, in the third night.

[T_i_B]

24. To be perfectly honest

A lot of the arguments about Cameron & Co cutting short their holidays were just political point scoring for the sake of it.

[BooScout]

29. I wouldn't object to water cannons...

It's the least they can do.

[Bosonic]

31. It seems like there may be Vigilante action starting up

(probably Turkish shop owners)

Violent clashes now on Kingsland Road, Hackney, as hundreds of Turkish men attack others youths

http://twitter.com/#!/PaulLewis/status/100682659310731264

[BooScout]

35. I can't blame them

The police are notorious for being slow to respond. People will do what they have to do to protect their property.

[T_i_B]

37. I think vigilante action is inevitable in the current circumstances

[BooScout]

41. To be honest......

If the London police are anything like around my area.......it's almost necessary to survive. The police around here seem to take forever to respond even to serious incidents.

Traders, residents and shopkeepers all over the UK are fed up with the lack of response at crimes.

[T_i_B]

46. The police are spread very thin

and the looters are using that to full advantage. So yes it's natural in this situation for vigilantes to start up to try and protect property.

[dipsydoodle]

39. That was inevitable

About time too - those little fuckers deserve a few busted heads.

Also :

2255: Gareth Furby, BBC News, London

Gangs of masked youths are roaming the streets with petrol bombs in Clapham Junction.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14449675

London burns at hands of the mob as the PM finally flies home: Gangs armed with petrol bombs and poles on THIRD night of riots and cynical looting

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2023874/LONDON-RIOTS-David-Cameron-returns-home-police-face-gangs-petrol-bombs.html#ixzz1UTgTJIOJ

[dipsydoodle]

23. BlackBerry Messaging have already agreed to help the police

Twitter rumours that the army have been deployed have beem dismissed as such by No 10.

At this rate it wouldn't really surprise me to see them deployed to keep civil order.

[indurancevile]

51. so much for the revolutionary power of social media. just helps the authorities find you faster.

[T_i_B]

53. Check out the #tweetalooter hashtag on Twitter

I thin k it was started by a spoof account, but people are cottoning onto the idea of using social media to shop looting vermin.

[T_i_B]

52. A positive story about Twitter & the riots!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14456857

A massive clean-up operation is getting under way in areas affected by the riots which broke out across London.

Users of Twitter and Facebook are using social networks to co-ordinate operations across the capital.

An account on Twitter called @riotcleanup attracted more than 18,000 followers in a matter of hours and was helping people to co-ordinate efforts.

Others were using the hashtag #riotscleanup to arrange to meet up and help clear areas around their homes.